Is Apple getting Siri-ous in the face of Amazon's Alexa Echo?

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  • Reply 141 of 155



    bdkennedy said:
    Apple is going to have to rebrand Siri to even get me to think about using it again. It's a POS. And Maps. There seems to be a construction zone down the street from me that's never there.
    Yeah, the new version of Maps has become a bit of a visual mess, hasn't it. Can't even see the Interstate icons any more, for instance! And too many pop-up boxes all over the place that hide actual map info.

    Is Maps also under Cue? (What about Siri?). 
     Everyone knows I'm not a big fan of Eddy Cue.
    No one cares.
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 142 of 155
    Just piling on here at the end - all apple since '87. I got an echo this year and it is absolutely amazing. you can talk lightning fast and fix query mistakes in a second. To even attempt the same on Siri takes forever and is so incredibly frustrating I almost never use it - just super basic stuff in a quiet room. 

    The echo is at least 5 years beyond Siri if not more. I am extremely disappointed in Siri - it is bad and the voice is the same sorry voices bundled with the mac since the days before OS X.

    If amazon can add this to a phone/app and link it to the other echos it will be a very compelling echo-system (pun intended). 

    Apple - watch out - you are getting lapped in AI, PC hardware and innovation. Cook needs to go where Gil Amelio went - I just don't know who can replace Jobs.
  • Reply 143 of 155
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,353member

    A report from last November detailed job listings stating, "Apple is entering an exciting phase in Siri development, and we are aiming high both in terms of what Siri can do and the software engineering practices we follow in developing it. You will be working in a team of highly talented software engineers and speech scientists to expand the capabilities of Siri."

    That makes it a bit premature to assume that the barely profitable experiments in voice-first assistants conducted by Apple's rivals are winning or leading in any meaningful way, although it does allow lazy journalists to generate sensational-sounding reports.

    In 2017, Siri looks to be a key area of advancement at Apple.


    Mark Gurman had a report a couple of months ago that makes me think Apple may actually be working on something like this:
    Apple is researching new ways to improve Siri on iPhones and iPads, two people said. With an initiative code-named “Invisible Hand,” Apple hopes to give users the ability to fully control their devices through a Siri command system within three years, one of the people added. Currently, the voice assistant is able to respond to commands within its application, but Apple’s goal is for Siri to be able to control the entire system without having to open an app or reactivate Siri.
    This would be a massive leap if they could actually pull it off.

    brucemc said:

    I don't doubt that due to having a dedicated device with multiple mics, power source etc - that Echo is better at voice recognition & parsing.  We have nothing from Apple to compare that against.  However, beware "hype" around anything.  In this case, the Echo/Dot are relatively new and people are very enamoured with them.  CES always grabs onto something, however it rarely turns out to be a big thing.
    Will it be 2017 as DED implies or will it be 3 years as Gurman says to create a great SIRI that works.    Kinda of aggravating.

    I imagine that part of the reason why the Echo understands me almost perfectly is because of the number of Microphones that they used in it.
    (I heard 7 but don't really know).

    I hope that if and when Apple comes out with a Home Hub product that they go high end.   They need to blow away both the Echo and Google Home.
    How about a Hub that supports WIFI Mess Networking (the next generation of the Airport Express) and Audio better than SONOS over both WIFI (supporting HiRes audit), Airplay and BlueTooth in addition to a new revamped SIRI even each costs $400 or more.   It should integrate with both a new improved Apple TV and higher end attached speakers (maybe supplied by Beats).    Apple has done an incredible job improving display technology.    I would like for them to do the same for audio (besides the AirPods) 



  • Reply 144 of 155
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,549member
    Just piling on here at the end - all apple since '87. I got an echo this year and it is absolutely amazing. you can talk lightning fast and fix query mistakes in a second. To even attempt the same on Siri takes forever and is so incredibly frustrating I almost never use it - just super basic stuff in a quiet room. 

    The echo is at least 5 years beyond Siri if not more. I am extremely disappointed in Siri - it is bad and the voice is the same sorry voices bundled with the mac since the days before OS X.

    If amazon can add this to a phone/app and link it to the other echos it will be a very compelling echo-system (pun intended). 

    Apple - watch out - you are getting lapped in AI, PC hardware and innovation. Cook needs to go where Gil Amelio went - I just don't know who can replace Jobs.
    IF Amazon can add to a phone...

    I can bring Siri with me in my car and at work. The best assistant is one you can reach when you're out and about. 
  • Reply 145 of 155
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 19,286member
    jungmark said:
    Just piling on here at the end - all apple since '87. I got an echo this year and it is absolutely amazing. you can talk lightning fast and fix query mistakes in a second. To even attempt the same on Siri takes forever and is so incredibly frustrating I almost never use it - just super basic stuff in a quiet room. 

    The echo is at least 5 years beyond Siri if not more. I am extremely disappointed in Siri - it is bad and the voice is the same sorry voices bundled with the mac since the days before OS X.

    If amazon can add this to a phone/app and link it to the other echos it will be a very compelling echo-system (pun intended). 

    Apple - watch out - you are getting lapped in AI, PC hardware and innovation. Cook needs to go where Gil Amelio went - I just don't know who can replace Jobs.
    IF Amazon can add to a phone...
    Amazon's Alexa is being added to a phone. It's from a top-tier OEM too. 
  • Reply 146 of 155
    MacProMacPro Posts: 17,588member
    gatorguy said:
    jungmark said:
    Just piling on here at the end - all apple since '87. I got an echo this year and it is absolutely amazing. you can talk lightning fast and fix query mistakes in a second. To even attempt the same on Siri takes forever and is so incredibly frustrating I almost never use it - just super basic stuff in a quiet room. 

    The echo is at least 5 years beyond Siri if not more. I am extremely disappointed in Siri - it is bad and the voice is the same sorry voices bundled with the mac since the days before OS X.

    If amazon can add this to a phone/app and link it to the other echos it will be a very compelling echo-system (pun intended). 

    Apple - watch out - you are getting lapped in AI, PC hardware and innovation. Cook needs to go where Gil Amelio went - I just don't know who can replace Jobs.
    IF Amazon can add to a phone...
    Amazon's Alexa is being added to a phone. It's from a top-tier OEM too. 
    Is that one of the Phone makers sharing the 5% profits left after Apple takes the rest?
  • Reply 147 of 155
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,549member
    gatorguy said:
    jungmark said:
    Just piling on here at the end - all apple since '87. I got an echo this year and it is absolutely amazing. you can talk lightning fast and fix query mistakes in a second. To even attempt the same on Siri takes forever and is so incredibly frustrating I almost never use it - just super basic stuff in a quiet room. 

    The echo is at least 5 years beyond Siri if not more. I am extremely disappointed in Siri - it is bad and the voice is the same sorry voices bundled with the mac since the days before OS X.

    If amazon can add this to a phone/app and link it to the other echos it will be a very compelling echo-system (pun intended). 

    Apple - watch out - you are getting lapped in AI, PC hardware and innovation. Cook needs to go where Gil Amelio went - I just don't know who can replace Jobs.
    IF Amazon can add to a phone...
    Amazon's Alexa is being added to a phone. It's from a top-tier OEM too. 
    If it's not Apple, it's not top tier. Sammy is a distant second tier. Then you have the rest. 
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 148 of 155
    MacPro said:
    Is that one of the Phone makers sharing the 5% profits left after Apple takes the rest?
    Hey, good for them. They have more of my money than I do. Tell me why I should be pleased about that? I don't begrudge Apple their profit and nobody put a gun to my head to make me buy their stuff, but Apple making dumptrucks full of money is hardly a benefit to me as a buyer. How it is a bragging point for users is a mystery to me.


    jungmark said:
    If it's not Apple, it's not top tier. Sammy is a distant second tier. Then you have the rest. 
    Oh, come on. Samsung makes some crap but they also make some perfectly serviceable stuff. I know many people who actually PREFER their Samsung phones over iPhones. Letting fanaticism blind you to the strength of competitors can be a fatal mistake.
  • Reply 149 of 155
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 19,286member
    jungmark said:
    gatorguy said:
    jungmark said:
    Just piling on here at the end - all apple since '87. I got an echo this year and it is absolutely amazing. you can talk lightning fast and fix query mistakes in a second. To even attempt the same on Siri takes forever and is so incredibly frustrating I almost never use it - just super basic stuff in a quiet room. 

    The echo is at least 5 years beyond Siri if not more. I am extremely disappointed in Siri - it is bad and the voice is the same sorry voices bundled with the mac since the days before OS X.

    If amazon can add this to a phone/app and link it to the other echos it will be a very compelling echo-system (pun intended). 

    Apple - watch out - you are getting lapped in AI, PC hardware and innovation. Cook needs to go where Gil Amelio went - I just don't know who can replace Jobs.
    IF Amazon can add to a phone...
    Amazon's Alexa is being added to a phone. It's from a top-tier OEM too. 
    If it's not Apple, it's not top tier. Sammy is a distant second tier. Then you have the rest. 
    The company integrating Alexa is the third largest smartphone producer by volume in the world, with only #1 Samsung and #2 Apple ahead of them so yes, that company would be considered a top tier manufacturer
    edited January 2017
  • Reply 150 of 155
    MacProMacPro Posts: 17,588member
    gatorguy said:
    jungmark said:
    gatorguy said:
    jungmark said:
    Just piling on here at the end - all apple since '87. I got an echo this year and it is absolutely amazing. you can talk lightning fast and fix query mistakes in a second. To even attempt the same on Siri takes forever and is so incredibly frustrating I almost never use it - just super basic stuff in a quiet room. 

    The echo is at least 5 years beyond Siri if not more. I am extremely disappointed in Siri - it is bad and the voice is the same sorry voices bundled with the mac since the days before OS X.

    If amazon can add this to a phone/app and link it to the other echos it will be a very compelling echo-system (pun intended). 

    Apple - watch out - you are getting lapped in AI, PC hardware and innovation. Cook needs to go where Gil Amelio went - I just don't know who can replace Jobs.
    IF Amazon can add to a phone...
    Amazon's Alexa is being added to a phone. It's from a top-tier OEM too. 
    If it's not Apple, it's not top tier. Sammy is a distant second tier. Then you have the rest. 
    The company integrating Alexa is the third largest smartphone producer by volume in the world, with only #1 Samsung and #2 Apple ahead of them so yes, that company would be considered a top tier manufacturer
    My guess is the writer probably wasn't meaning 'top tier' by the rather vacuous metric, volume but rather by a more sound business one, profit.  Android fans love to discuss volume I realize and for obvious reasons.
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 151 of 155
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 19,286member
    MacPro said:
    gatorguy said:
    jungmark said:
    gatorguy said:
    jungmark said:
    Just piling on here at the end - all apple since '87. I got an echo this year and it is absolutely amazing. you can talk lightning fast and fix query mistakes in a second. To even attempt the same on Siri takes forever and is so incredibly frustrating I almost never use it - just super basic stuff in a quiet room. 

    The echo is at least 5 years beyond Siri if not more. I am extremely disappointed in Siri - it is bad and the voice is the same sorry voices bundled with the mac since the days before OS X.

    If amazon can add this to a phone/app and link it to the other echos it will be a very compelling echo-system (pun intended). 

    Apple - watch out - you are getting lapped in AI, PC hardware and innovation. Cook needs to go where Gil Amelio went - I just don't know who can replace Jobs.
    IF Amazon can add to a phone...
    Amazon's Alexa is being added to a phone. It's from a top-tier OEM too. 
    If it's not Apple, it's not top tier. Sammy is a distant second tier. Then you have the rest. 
    The company integrating Alexa is the third largest smartphone producer by volume in the world, with only #1 Samsung and #2 Apple ahead of them so yes, that company would be considered a top tier manufacturer
    My guess is the writer probably wasn't meaning 'top tier' by the rather vacuous metric, volume but rather by a more sound business one, profit.  Android fans love to discuss volume I realize and for obvious reasons.
    Narrow or pigeonhole the definition however you wish. They also became the world's most profitable Android smartphone vendor last November according to Strategy Analytics, passing even Samsung, tho the distinction may be short-lived. Yup, they're a top-tier smartphone manufacturer by any metric. 
    edited January 2017
  • Reply 152 of 155
    MacProMacPro Posts: 17,588member
    gatorguy said:
    MacPro said:
    gatorguy said:
    jungmark said:
    gatorguy said:
    jungmark said:
    Just piling on here at the end - all apple since '87. I got an echo this year and it is absolutely amazing. you can talk lightning fast and fix query mistakes in a second. To even attempt the same on Siri takes forever and is so incredibly frustrating I almost never use it - just super basic stuff in a quiet room. 

    The echo is at least 5 years beyond Siri if not more. I am extremely disappointed in Siri - it is bad and the voice is the same sorry voices bundled with the mac since the days before OS X.

    If amazon can add this to a phone/app and link it to the other echos it will be a very compelling echo-system (pun intended). 

    Apple - watch out - you are getting lapped in AI, PC hardware and innovation. Cook needs to go where Gil Amelio went - I just don't know who can replace Jobs.
    IF Amazon can add to a phone...
    Amazon's Alexa is being added to a phone. It's from a top-tier OEM too. 
    If it's not Apple, it's not top tier. Sammy is a distant second tier. Then you have the rest. 
    The company integrating Alexa is the third largest smartphone producer by volume in the world, with only #1 Samsung and #2 Apple ahead of them so yes, that company would be considered a top tier manufacturer
    My guess is the writer probably wasn't meaning 'top tier' by the rather vacuous metric, volume but rather by a more sound business one, profit.  Android fans love to discuss volume I realize and for obvious reasons.
    Narrow or pigeonhole the definition however you wish. They also became the world's most profitable Android smartphone vendor last November according to Strategy Analytics, passing even Samsung, tho the distinction may be short-lived. Yup, they're a top-tier smartphone manufacturer by any metric. 
    "They also became the world's most profitable Android smartphone vendor last November " The best of the 5% making a profit versus Apple's 95%? I think you are flogging a dead horse with this argument.  
    edited January 2017 StrangeDays
  • Reply 153 of 155
    MacPro said:
    gatorguy said:
    MacPro said:
    gatorguy said:
    jungmark said:
    gatorguy said:
    jungmark said:
    Just piling on here at the end - all apple since '87. I got an echo this year and it is absolutely amazing. you can talk lightning fast and fix query mistakes in a second. To even attempt the same on Siri takes forever and is so incredibly frustrating I almost never use it - just super basic stuff in a quiet room. 

    The echo is at least 5 years beyond Siri if not more. I am extremely disappointed in Siri - it is bad and the voice is the same sorry voices bundled with the mac since the days before OS X.

    If amazon can add this to a phone/app and link it to the other echos it will be a very compelling echo-system (pun intended). 

    Apple - watch out - you are getting lapped in AI, PC hardware and innovation. Cook needs to go where Gil Amelio went - I just don't know who can replace Jobs.
    IF Amazon can add to a phone...
    Amazon's Alexa is being added to a phone. It's from a top-tier OEM too. 
    If it's not Apple, it's not top tier. Sammy is a distant second tier. Then you have the rest. 
    The company integrating Alexa is the third largest smartphone producer by volume in the world, with only #1 Samsung and #2 Apple ahead of them so yes, that company would be considered a top tier manufacturer
    My guess is the writer probably wasn't meaning 'top tier' by the rather vacuous metric, volume but rather by a more sound business one, profit.  Android fans love to discuss volume I realize and for obvious reasons.
    Narrow or pigeonhole the definition however you wish. They also became the world's most profitable Android smartphone vendor last November according to Strategy Analytics, passing even Samsung, tho the distinction may be short-lived. Yup, they're a top-tier smartphone manufacturer by any metric. 
    "They also became the world's most profitable Android smartphone vendor last November " The best of the 5% making a profit versus Apple's 95%? I think you are flogging a dead horse with this argument.  
    Can you please explain how Apple making 95% of the profit on smartphones benefits me as a buyer and user of the product? How does Apple being profitable make buying or using an iPhone better for me?

    How is the quality of the product affected by its profit margin? Wouldn't the phone itself and my experience with it be exactly the same even if other companies were making more money? If Samsung started charging more and making more money, thus shifting the relative profit percentages, would my iPhone experience somehow get worse?

     If Apple slashed the price of iPhones by hundreds of dollars, resulting in a smaller percentage of total market profits, would that make the iPhone worse? What if Apple raised the price by hundreds of dollars and took an even bigger share of total market profits. Would that make the iPhone better?

    I'm not being a smart-ass, I'm serious. I don't understand the point but am prepared to be enlightened if you or anyone else can explain the reasoning.
    gatorguy
  • Reply 154 of 155
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,549member
    MacPro said:
    gatorguy said:
    MacPro said:
    gatorguy said:
    jungmark said:
    gatorguy said:
    jungmark said:
    Just piling on here at the end - all apple since '87. I got an echo this year and it is absolutely amazing. you can talk lightning fast and fix query mistakes in a second. To even attempt the same on Siri takes forever and is so incredibly frustrating I almost never use it - just super basic stuff in a quiet room. 

    The echo is at least 5 years beyond Siri if not more. I am extremely disappointed in Siri - it is bad and the voice is the same sorry voices bundled with the mac since the days before OS X.

    If amazon can add this to a phone/app and link it to the other echos it will be a very compelling echo-system (pun intended). 

    Apple - watch out - you are getting lapped in AI, PC hardware and innovation. Cook needs to go where Gil Amelio went - I just don't know who can replace Jobs.
    IF Amazon can add to a phone...
    Amazon's Alexa is being added to a phone. It's from a top-tier OEM too. 
    If it's not Apple, it's not top tier. Sammy is a distant second tier. Then you have the rest. 
    The company integrating Alexa is the third largest smartphone producer by volume in the world, with only #1 Samsung and #2 Apple ahead of them so yes, that company would be considered a top tier manufacturer
    My guess is the writer probably wasn't meaning 'top tier' by the rather vacuous metric, volume but rather by a more sound business one, profit.  Android fans love to discuss volume I realize and for obvious reasons.
    Narrow or pigeonhole the definition however you wish. They also became the world's most profitable Android smartphone vendor last November according to Strategy Analytics, passing even Samsung, tho the distinction may be short-lived. Yup, they're a top-tier smartphone manufacturer by any metric. 
    "They also became the world's most profitable Android smartphone vendor last November " The best of the 5% making a profit versus Apple's 95%? I think you are flogging a dead horse with this argument.  
    Can you please explain how Apple making 95% of the profit on smartphones benefits me as a buyer and user of the product? How does Apple being profitable make buying or using an iPhone better for me?

    How is the quality of the product affected by its profit margin? Wouldn't the phone itself and my experience with it be exactly the same even if other companies were making more money? If Samsung started charging more and making more money, thus shifting the relative profit percentages, would my iPhone experience somehow get worse?

     If Apple slashed the price of iPhones by hundreds of dollars, resulting in a smaller percentage of total market profits, would that make the iPhone worse? What if Apple raised the price by hundreds of dollars and took an even bigger share of total market profits. Would that make the iPhone better?

    I'm not being a smart-ass, I'm serious. I don't understand the point but am prepared to be enlightened if you or anyone else can explain the reasoning.
    Easy. Apple will still be there in three years, offering support and upgrades. The non profit makers can disappear at any time or cut back on support. The non profit makers could also deny future upgrades as they've shown in the past. 
  • Reply 155 of 155
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,353member
    I was praying to the God in Hades that this was a DED article. Now I can sit down and have an enjoyable time reading it.
    Because it will tell you what you want to hear? Even Ben Bajarin, normally very bullish on Apple was worried about the lack of Apple love at CES. Outside of iPhone cases/chargers the only real Apple presence was companies providing solutions for the ports Apple removed on the new Macs. Siri and HomeKit aren't dominating anything.
    CES 2017 has been a dumpster fire.  The only thing i've been wowed by have been paper thin 65" OLED screens.  Home Automation crapped the bed.  Nest hasn't made a significant advance in two years.  Netgear delivered a baby monitor (????) . Samsung wanted to flog overpriced Fridges with embedded TV more than SmartThings.  

    Basically people have screamed "I work with Alexa" because nothing of note came out that pushed us forward.  The think CES is rapidly becoming irrelevant to many companies who don't need it to create buzz. 
    Clearly Alexa is just the latest thing the tech community has decided to hype. Last year it was bots and any tech company not all in on bots was doomed. BUT when someone like Ben Bajarin expresses concerns about HomeKit and Apple's presence in general at CES I get worried. He's typical bullish on Apple and if he's hearing concerns from 3rd party vendors that's a problem. One of Apple's strengths is it's ecosystem. If there are cracks in the ecosystem that's not good.
    It’s clear that Amazon is trying to be the glue that ties a lot of third party hardware together so that they build the Alexa brand.   At some point they will come out with another phone.   I Would not be surprised if the bought Essential.
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