how about also including an "eraser" at the end of the Pencil
No eraser! That's not very useful.
Yes, eraser. It is very useful.
Putting a dedicated erase on a digital stylus is like arguing that the iPhone sucks without a physical keyboard. If you need to erase just use the pencil tip. You might as well ask for a different thickness pencil tips instead of having that feature controlled by SW using the same stylus.
I don't have one, but a dedicated eraser on the other end of the Pencil makes little sense to me, because it would need to be an exact duplication of the Pencil's actual drawing tip to be useful. In my opinion, the eraser function needs to be like the eraser in Photoshop where you can adjust the opacity, brush size, brush shape, hardness, flow, erase to history and pressure sensitivity. A big eraser on the other end might be handy if all you are doing is taking hand written notes, but if you are doing artwork, it needs all the refinement of the drawing tip itself.
how about also including an "eraser" at the end of the Pencil
No eraser! That's not very useful.
Yes, eraser. It is very useful.
No, it's not. Software has sophisticated erase functions. Usually they don't work with a built-in eraser. And then, the charging function is a problem.
It easily takes more time to invert and reinvent a stylus for a dedicate erase function than it it so tap the erase function with your stylus tip or with you other hand on the iPad.
Exactly! I don't know what it is about people wanting an eraser on the back. It's clumsy, doesn't work well, and with the Pencil, will cover the charging port. I guess it's a matter of feeling that they're getting a function for free.
how about also including an "eraser" at the end of the Pencil
No eraser! That's not very useful.
Yes, eraser. It is very useful.
I think the broader issue here is -- what's the optimal UI for changing the operating mode of the pencil? Is it to use the pencil to tap on the screen to change modes, or is it to change modes by interacting with the pencil itself?
Switching between writing and erasing is possibly the most important mode changes there is for the pencil. It might make sense to have the UI for that mode change be on the pencil itself, and certainly the eraser metaphor would be one way to do that.
I think it's noteworthy that there are other mode changes that occur on the pencil itself -- for example, the angle at which one presses the pencil against the iPad and the intensity of pressure change what's written. That's clearly easier than having to tap on an on-screen palette of different writing modes. And it is a metaphor tied to actual pencils, because such metaphors are useful to people with experience using regular pencils (in other words, everybody).
So I see the appeal of an eraser and, if not an eraser, then some other way of changing to erase mode through direct interaction with the pencil itself as opposed to having to tap on some mode-changing-palette on the screen.
I've used styluses with erasers, and it's always been a bad experience. At first, it may seem great, simply because it's there. But after a while, it gets clumsy. I'd much rather tap on the eraser function on the screen than to have to change the stylus around in my hand, and back again. And often, I need to vary the erase function as I do the brush or pencil parameters. That takes a bit of time anyway, but often doesn't work with the rear eraser.
yes, graphite pencils have erasers on the back. But that's because that's an old product, and it was the easiest way back then. Easier than picking up an eraser. But times have changed. We're in the digital world, and a lot of those old analog methodologies either don't work anymore, or don't work well. People just have to get used to it.
how about also including an "eraser" at the end of the Pencil
No eraser! That's not very useful.
Yes, eraser. It is very useful.
Putting a dedicated erase on a digital stylus is like arguing that the iPhone sucks without a physical keyboard. If you need to erase just use the pencil tip. You might as well ask for a different thickness pencil tips instead of having that feature controlled by SW using the same stylus.
I don't have one, but a dedicated eraser on the other end of the Pencil makes little sense to me, because it would need to be an exact duplication of the Pencil's actual drawing tip to be useful. In my opinion, the eraser function needs to be like the eraser in Photoshop where you can adjust the opacity, brush size, brush shape, hardness, flow, erase to history and pressure sensitivity. A big eraser on the other end might be handy if all you are doing is taking hand written notes, but if you are doing artwork, it needs all the refinement of the drawing tip itself.
Excellent points and points I doubt I ever would've made—since I don't know how to use Photoshop (or similar apps, which I can't name), I never considered the variety of ways in which an erase function can be implemented.
how about also including an "eraser" at the end of the Pencil
This was my first recommendation when the Pencil was announced. I see both sides of the argument. I don't see how the option would hurt? Most artists would love this.
how about also including an "eraser" at the end of the Pencil
No eraser! That's not very useful.
Yes, eraser. It is very useful.
No, it's not. Software has sophisticated erase functions. Usually they don't work with a built-in eraser. And then, the charging function is a problem.
It easily takes more time to invert and reinvent a stylus for a dedicate erase function than it it so tap the erase function with your stylus tip or with you other hand on the iPad.
I've always thought the Pencil was too long, I wouldn't mind the second version being shorter and easier to manage. Flipping a small Pencil to erase would be faster than looking firs and tapping the erase function. I feel like tapping would be great for precision and flipping would be better for quick general erasing.
how about also including an "eraser" at the end of the Pencil
No eraser! That's not very useful.
Yes, eraser. It is very useful.
No, it's not. Software has sophisticated erase functions. Usually they don't work with a built-in eraser. And then, the charging function is a problem.
I don't see how charging would be a problem since you can't charge and use the Pencil at the same time?
although that does give me an idea: Chraging through the iPad screen. Every time you press the Pencil on the screen it charges.
how about also including an "eraser" at the end of the Pencil
No eraser! That's not very useful.
Yes, eraser. It is very useful.
No, it's not. Software has sophisticated erase functions. Usually they don't work with a built-in eraser. And then, the charging function is a problem.
I don't see how charging would be a problem since you can't charge and use the Pencil at the same time?
I think his point is that you can't just have a simple magnetic cap over the charging port. With a duel-end stylus with a charging port hidden inside one end, you have a complex arrangement of components that will need to be easily removable, or have to find another way to charge. I suppose they could put a female Lightning port into the side of the stylus or use inductive charging, but both of those have their own challenges, and you're not likely to get that if you also want a shorter stylus.
Most desired feature a massive reduction in price.
Exactly. I would like to know the margins on that overpriced plastic stylus.
As the owner of an iPad "Pro", I would like to know why I do not get the USB C power adapter and pencil
You're joking, right? You do realize that nothing is really free, despite what a manufacturer may say about it. If it's "free" the cost of the item is added to the price, and you're paying for it anyway.
in this case, it's a complex piece of equipment. And while we all wish it would cost less, that's the price for being the best stylus out there, which it is. Maybe they could reduce the price in the series 2 model, but just to $79, or so. Asking for it to be halved isn't thinking about what the R&D and costs are.
if you're buying this for fun, then it's expensive. But if you're a real professional, it's cheap. In addition, if you're a real professional, meaning that you derive most, or much of your regular income on the work derived from these devices, then your accountant will be able to depreciate it as with all of your other equipment you buy for your professional usage. Of course, if you're a hobbyist, and get a bit of money now and then, you can't do that.
You cannot say that the Pencil is the best stylus, when it's missing something as simple as the eraser. MS add it to the Pen for the SP4, and works very nice in handwritten notes.
Soli said: Excellent points and points I doubt I ever would've made—since I don't know how to use Photoshop (or similar apps, which I can't name), I never considered the variety of ways in which an erase function can be implemented.
Just like an artist using real art pencils, which have no eraser, they would use what is known as a kneaded eraser that sort of has a putty-like consistency so you can form it into any shape you need, and of course, since an artist's hand is extremely pressure sensitive, you can perform very delicate strokes. That is exactly what a digital eraser should be able to accomplish also.
Most desired feature a massive reduction in price.
Exactly. I would like to know the margins on that overpriced plastic stylus.
As the owner of an iPad "Pro", I would like to know why I do not get the USB C power adapter and pencil
You're joking, right? You do realize that nothing is really free, despite what a manufacturer may say about it. If it's "free" the cost of the item is added to the price, and you're paying for it anyway.
in this case, it's a complex piece of equipment. And while we all wish it would cost less, that's the price for being the best stylus out there, which it is. Maybe they could reduce the price in the series 2 model, but just to $79, or so. Asking for it to be halved isn't thinking about what the R&D and costs are.
if you're buying this for fun, then it's expensive. But if you're a real professional, it's cheap. In addition, if you're a real professional, meaning that you derive most, or much of your regular income on the work derived from these devices, then your accountant will be able to depreciate it as with all of your other equipment you buy for your professional usage. Of course, if you're a hobbyist, and get a bit of money now and then, you can't do that.
You cannot say that the Pencil is the best stylus, when it's missing something as simple as the eraser. MS add it to the Pen for the SP4, and works very nice in handwritten notes.
how about also including an "eraser" at the end of the Pencil
No eraser! That's not very useful.
Yes, eraser. It is very useful.
Putting a dedicated erase on a digital stylus is like arguing that the iPhone sucks without a physical keyboard. If you need to erase just use the pencil tip. You might as well ask for a different thickness pencil tips instead of having that feature controlled by SW using the same stylus.
I don't have one, but a dedicated eraser on the other end of the Pencil makes little sense to me, because it would need to be an exact duplication of the Pencil's actual drawing tip to be useful. In my opinion, the eraser function needs to be like the eraser in Photoshop where you can adjust the opacity, brush size, brush shape, hardness, flow, erase to history and pressure sensitivity. A big eraser on the other end might be handy if all you are doing is taking hand written notes, but if you are doing artwork, it needs all the refinement of the drawing tip itself.
The obvious way for an "eraser" to work on a stylus like the Pencil is for it to be a whole second tip and have software recognize which of the two is closest to the screen. You would then tie certain settings to tip 1 (tool, brush pattern, opacity, sensitivity, etc.), and a whole separate collection of settings to tip 2. Then you can switch between airbrush and watercolor or eraser and pastel or whatever you feel like. The two would probably be differentiated by color.
Essentially it would be like the Wacom Intuos Tool ID system. Some high-end Wacom tablets can recognize a unique ID in each stylus. Software that supports this feature allows you to use different physical stylus units for different software tools. You literally set down the stylus associated with your pencil settings and pick up the stylus associated with your oil paint settings.
Of course, that leaves the problem of how to charge the Pencil. Inductive charging could work, but it's inefficient and you wouldn't be able to charge the Pencil while away from the charging base. I don't think Apple would go for that.
how about also including an "eraser" at the end of the Pencil
No eraser! That's not very useful.
That's not true at all, specially when taking handwritten notes.
He's not saying "no eraser function," which already exists.
I'm talking about the eraser in the stylus. The Pen has it, and it's very useful when taking notes in meetings.
And the physical number pad was "very useful" for sending SMS messages on your dumbphone without looking at the screen, but I'm guessing you don't still rock a dumbphone because of that feature; so why expect a lot of complexity and cost when you can simply just make a small modification to your behaviour and likely increase your speed from not having to flip a digital stylus to match an antiquated technology where graphite and gum couldn't be built into the same tip?
Most desired feature a massive reduction in price.
If you look at the amount of technology inside the Pencil, and contemplate the R&D that went into "the smallest logic board we [iFixit] 've ever seen," you would appreciate the reason for its price. Or, at least a resonable, technically aware person would.
how about also including an "eraser" at the end of the Pencil
No eraser! That's not very useful.
That's not true at all, specially when taking handwritten notes.
He's not saying "no eraser function," which already exists.
I'm talking about the eraser in the stylus. The Pen has it, and it's very useful when taking notes in meetings.
And the physical number pad was "very useful" for sending SMS messages on your dumbphone without looking at the screen, but I'm guessing you don't still rock a dumbphone because of that feature; so why expect a lot of complexity and cost when you can simply just make a small modification to your behaviour and likely increase your speed from not having to flip a digital stylus to match an antiquated technology where graphite and gum couldn't be built into the same tip?
Interesting how MS made the "complex" eraser into the Pen, and still cheaper than the Pencil. So I don't see the "complexity and cost" an issue here. Second, during my meetings I have to use the eraser frequently. Don't you think it's easier to flip the Pen and erase, than move my hand or stylus out of the writing area to choose the eraser and repeat every time I have to erase? Physical pads were useful and were replaced in phones by something that gave more benefits. Right now, the Pencil haven't done anything better than the eraser in the Pen. As soon it does, I'll consider it since it will benefit my workflow. Until then, the Pen is a better option for handwritten notes.
Most desired feature a massive reduction in price.
Exactly. I would like to know the margins on that overpriced plastic stylus.
As the owner of an iPad "Pro", I would like to know why I do not get the USB C power adapter and pencil
You're joking, right? You do realize that nothing is really free, despite what a manufacturer may say about it. If it's "free" the cost of the item is added to the price, and you're paying for it anyway.
in this case, it's a complex piece of equipment. And while we all wish it would cost less, that's the price for being the best stylus out there, which it is. Maybe they could reduce the price in the series 2 model, but just to $79, or so. Asking for it to be halved isn't thinking about what the R&D and costs are.
if you're buying this for fun, then it's expensive. But if you're a real professional, it's cheap. In addition, if you're a real professional, meaning that you derive most, or much of your regular income on the work derived from these devices, then your accountant will be able to depreciate it as with all of your other equipment you buy for your professional usage. Of course, if you're a hobbyist, and get a bit of money now and then, you can't do that.
You cannot say that the Pencil is the best stylus, when it's missing something as simple as the eraser. MS add it to the Pen for the SP4, and works very nice in handwritten notes.
Sure he can, just as you can say that it's not.
He say that the Pencil is the best, I just proved it isn't for all users.
Comments
yes, graphite pencils have erasers on the back. But that's because that's an old product, and it was the easiest way back then. Easier than picking up an eraser. But times have changed. We're in the digital world, and a lot of those old analog methodologies either don't work anymore, or don't work well. People just have to get used to it.
I've always thought the Pencil was too long, I wouldn't mind the second version being shorter and easier to manage. Flipping a small Pencil to erase would be faster than looking firs and tapping the erase function. I feel like tapping would be great for precision and flipping would be better for quick general erasing.
I don't see how charging would be a problem since you can't charge and use the Pencil at the same time?
although that does give me an idea:
Chraging through the iPad screen. Every time you press the Pencil on the screen it charges.
That's not true at all, specially when taking handwritten notes.
Essentially it would be like the Wacom Intuos Tool ID system. Some high-end Wacom tablets can recognize a unique ID in each stylus. Software that supports this feature allows you to use different physical stylus units for different software tools. You literally set down the stylus associated with your pencil settings and pick up the stylus associated with your oil paint settings.
Of course, that leaves the problem of how to charge the Pencil. Inductive charging could work, but it's inefficient and you wouldn't be able to charge the Pencil while away from the charging base. I don't think Apple would go for that.
http://ifixit.org/blog/7584/apple-pencil-teardown/
Interesting how MS made the "complex" eraser into the Pen, and still cheaper than the Pencil. So I don't see the "complexity and cost" an issue here. Second, during my meetings I have to use the eraser frequently. Don't you think it's easier to flip the Pen and erase, than move my hand or stylus out of the writing area to choose the eraser and repeat every time I have to erase? Physical pads were useful and were replaced in phones by something that gave more benefits. Right now, the Pencil haven't done anything better than the eraser in the Pen. As soon it does, I'll consider it since it will benefit my workflow. Until then, the Pen is a better option for handwritten notes.