I wouldn't touch a Huawei phone with your hands, even if it ran iOS.
When you factor in bang for buck, Huawei make some superb phones. They are now creeping into the high end market. They were first with force touch on a phone, had dual lens before Apple and innovating with gestures on the fingerprint scanners (which have been consistently faster than Apple's and extremely accurate to boot). Their Android personalisation layer is different to other classic Android approaches but not too far from iOS at first glance.
Design wise they have put a lot of effort into turning heads. Hold a Mate S in your hand and you understand with people call the latest Apple offerings 'boring'.
Much more importantly, and this is key, smartphones have already reached the 'good enough' zone. There are millions of people willing to come down from the top tier to something that is more than capable but not bleeding edge. When you enter that group, design is still important and that is where you find Huawei waiting for you (or the Honor sub brand). Aggressive pricing doesn't give you the same margins as Apple but that isn't the point. If you are taking people from the top tier, albeit with reduced margins, you are doing more damage to the manufacturers in that band by making them lose the sale. Obviously Huawei is digging it's teeth into the Android high end market after having taken the middle ground by storm but it is getting ever closer to Apple users too. However, the US has been off limits so far. It has done spectacularly well in Europe and China but they have their sights on the US you can be sure.
This is absolutely 100% FALSE.
Show me a single line of proof that shows former iPhone users are willing to buy a Huawei phone because its 'good enough'. Total and UTTER BULLSHIT. New Huawei customers are former Samsung customers or feature phone users. iPhone has a retention rate in the 90%+ and Cook just announced they had the most Android switchers to iPhone in company history.
Huawei, like all the other fake iPhone killers is capturing the low market. Samsung. Xiaomi, Now Huawei. All fake contenders who eventually get exposed for being copycats of Apple and nothing more.
Re-read what I wrote. Pause for thought before replying.
I clearly stated that Huawei was digging its teeth into the high end Android market. I clearly stated that the US was currently hard to crack due to political reasons.
Huawei will tempt iPhone users. That is the aim for the future. As for switchers, you are replying to one. As for the phones they produce, you clearly have never used one of their recent models. There is a clear reason for that.
You call them 'fake iPhone killers' and ask for 'proof'. Well this 'iPhone killer' beat Apple to force touch on a phone, has better, more flexible fingerprint scanners, also designs its own processors and had dual lens before Apple etc.
Processors aren't in the Apple class but that is exactly the point. This year was 'good enough' year. Huawei is pressing hard in Europe and I think it's overtaken Apple in some markets.
The huge drawback with regards the US and Huawei's is network infrastructure. Typically it will get carriers to install its infrastructure for delivery and then discount it's phones to the carriers as a reward. Carriers then push Huawei phones to users offering discount that undercut rivals. That situation will not last forever.
Getting people to switch is obviously part of the plan when it eventually comes to competing with Apple but, as I said, switchingis involved and is less and less painful as we move into the cloud.
I did read your reply.
Again show me proof in ANY COUNTRY in the ENTIRE WORLD where former iPhone buyers are buying Huawei instead. Show me. There is ZERO PROOF. Absolutely nothing.
Huawei buyers are former Samsung buyers or people who are upgrading from feature phones.
Just because Huawei did something first means jackshit. First to have force touch? Sure. After reading Apple rumors. Same with dual lens. But their execution of those features have been pure shit compared to Apple. Anyone can read some Apple rumors and bring out a feature before the new iPhone comes out. Samdung and Xiaomi has been doing this for YEARS. And guess what? They still can't hold a candle to Apple.
Then you will have to read it a third time. Why are you demanding something that cannot even be proved? Not that what you are demanding even has much to do with what I wrote.
As for moving from an iPhone to Huawei, well you have me sitting right here and I'm not alone. I cannot go anywhere without seeing Huawei phones on billboards, in shops and in the hands of users everywhere. Sitting right up there with Samsung and Apple. Carriers constantly offer deals on Huawei phones from all ranges and people are happy with them. Very happy.
Can I speculate that you have never even seen a high end Huawei in person, much less used one. They basically have no real presence in North America. I knew it was in their plans but didn't expect a push without their networking technology in place first. Perhaps that is about to change.
And where did you get the idea that their dual lens implementation was shitty?
I can guarantee you that their fingerprint scanner implementation runs rings around Apple's. To the point that Google has rolled some of it into the next Android.
And comparing Xiaomi to Huawei Is like comparing Big Foot to a lemur.
Huawei Is a monster with muscle and it's been quietly flexing it's mobile muscle for a couple of years now with huge success.
You still have not provided a single shred of evidence that proves a large number (millions) of iPhone users switched to Huawei.
And looking at FACTS (Apple had its biggest iPhone quarter EVER) shows you are wrong.
Where did you get the idea that I said millions of iPhone users had switched? Quote me. Perhaps I expressed something incorrectly.
Apple's biggest iPhone quarter means very little in the context of the industry. It's good for Apple but is insignificant otherwise.
I wouldn't touch a Huawei phone with your hands, even if it ran iOS.
When you factor in bang for buck, Huawei make some superb phones. They are now creeping into the high end market. They were first with force touch on a phone, had dual lens before Apple and innovating with gestures on the fingerprint scanners (which have been consistently faster than Apple's and extremely accurate to boot). Their Android personalisation layer is different to other classic Android approaches but not too far from iOS at first glance.
Design wise they have put a lot of effort into turning heads. Hold a Mate S in your hand and you understand with people call the latest Apple offerings 'boring'.
Much more importantly, and this is key, smartphones have already reached the 'good enough' zone. There are millions of people willing to come down from the top tier to something that is more than capable but not bleeding edge. When you enter that group, design is still important and that is where you find Huawei waiting for you (or the Honor sub brand). Aggressive pricing doesn't give you the same margins as Apple but that isn't the point. If you are taking people from the top tier, albeit with reduced margins, you are doing more damage to the manufacturers in that band by making them lose the sale. Obviously Huawei is digging it's teeth into the Android high end market after having taken the middle ground by storm but it is getting ever closer to Apple users too. However, the US has been off limits so far. It has done spectacularly well in Europe and China but they have their sights on the US you can be sure.
This is absolutely 100% FALSE.
Show me a single line of proof that shows former iPhone users are willing to buy a Huawei phone because its 'good enough'. Total and UTTER BULLSHIT. New Huawei customers are former Samsung customers or feature phone users. iPhone has a retention rate in the 90%+ and Cook just announced they had the most Android switchers to iPhone in company history.
Huawei, like all the other fake iPhone killers is capturing the low market. Samsung. Xiaomi, Now Huawei. All fake contenders who eventually get exposed for being copycats of Apple and nothing more.
Re-read what I wrote. Pause for thought before replying.
I clearly stated that Huawei was digging its teeth into the high end Android market. I clearly stated that the US was currently hard to crack due to political reasons.
Huawei will tempt iPhone users. That is the aim for the future. As for switchers, you are replying to one. As for the phones they produce, you clearly have never used one of their recent models. There is a clear reason for that.
You call them 'fake iPhone killers' and ask for 'proof'. Well this 'iPhone killer' beat Apple to force touch on a phone, has better, more flexible fingerprint scanners, also designs its own processors and had dual lens before Apple etc.
Processors aren't in the Apple class but that is exactly the point. This year was 'good enough' year. Huawei is pressing hard in Europe and I think it's overtaken Apple in some markets.
The huge drawback with regards the US and Huawei's is network infrastructure. Typically it will get carriers to install its infrastructure for delivery and then discount it's phones to the carriers as a reward. Carriers then push Huawei phones to users offering discount that undercut rivals. That situation will not last forever.
Getting people to switch is obviously part of the plan when it eventually comes to competing with Apple but, as I said, switchingis involved and is less and less painful as we move into the cloud.
I did read your reply.
Again show me proof in ANY COUNTRY in the ENTIRE WORLD where former iPhone buyers are buying Huawei instead. Show me. There is ZERO PROOF. Absolutely nothing.
Huawei buyers are former Samsung buyers or people who are upgrading from feature phones.
Just because Huawei did something first means jackshit. First to have force touch? Sure. After reading Apple rumors. Same with dual lens. But their execution of those features have been pure shit compared to Apple. Anyone can read some Apple rumors and bring out a feature before the new iPhone comes out. Samdung and Xiaomi has been doing this for YEARS. And guess what? They still can't hold a candle to Apple.
Then you will have to read it a third time. Why are you demanding something that cannot even be proved? Not that what you are demanding even has much to do with what I wrote.
As for moving from an iPhone to Huawei, well you have me sitting right here and I'm not alone. I cannot go anywhere without seeing Huawei phones on billboards, in shops and in the hands of users everywhere. Sitting right up there with Samsung and Apple. Carriers constantly offer deals on Huawei phones from all ranges and people are happy with them. Very happy.
Can I speculate that you have never even seen a high end Huawei in person, much less used one. They basically have no real presence in North America. I knew it was in their plans but didn't expect a push without their networking technology in place first. Perhaps that is about to change.
And where did you get the idea that their dual lens implementation was shitty?
I can guarantee you that their fingerprint scanner implementation runs rings around Apple's. To the point that Google has rolled some of it into the next Android.
And comparing Xiaomi to Huawei Is like comparing Big Foot to a lemur.
Huawei Is a monster with muscle and it's been quietly flexing it's mobile muscle for a couple of years now with huge success.
You still have not provided a single shred of evidence that proves a large number (millions) of iPhone users switched to Huawei.
And looking at FACTS (Apple had its biggest iPhone quarter EVER) shows you are wrong.
Where did you get the idea that I said millions of iPhone users had switched? Quote me. Perhaps I expressed something incorrectly.
He knows you didn't. I've seen the same tactic in the past, a bit of "feign and tilt" hoping no one notices. Just ignore it.
So now compare my quote to what you claimed I had said. Can you see the chasm of difference between the two?
As for your other comment on profit, I will repeat myself. Insignificant in the industry but good for Apple. Do you want me to change good to 'great'? Fine, 'great'. It doesn't change anything.
Now open your mind a little bit and look beyond Apple. Apple has the lion's share of mobile phone profitability. It has had for a long time. It isn't really that newsworthy.
So exactly why do manufacturers still produce billions of phones with hardly any profit to be had? Does it make sense? Shouldn't they just throw in the towel?
Chew on that for a while and let me know your conclusions.
I will give you something that might help as this is a Huawei thread. They are relatively new to the handset market and turn in a profit although not as much as Apple. If you have a phone business that makes hundreds of millions in profit, is it a bad business just because Apple, in percentage terms, rakes in far more? If your core business is network cellphone communication hardware (something that end users never even see) and you can give beefy discounts on your phones to carriers that purchase your expensive infrastructure hardware, isn't it a win, win, win situation for all involved?
Carriers win (they get top notch hardware for infrastructure and a spread of cheaper phones to offer clients)
Users win with cheaper subsidized phones (even high end phones, just cheaper)
Huawei wins on every count of course
5G is not a pipedream. It will come and when it does Huawei will be there and so the cycle continues.
You are not seeing any of this because your government (security committees) have stopped deals going through between Huawei and carriers. Rightly or wrongly. I don't know if Huawei hardware has evil backdoors built in to send all our data back to China but I doubt they would have overtaken Ericsson if that were the case. Whatever the reality no one can say Huawei has not had an amazing rise in the handset market in the last two years. From basically nothing to a household name.
Handset profitability though, is not everything. Don't take that to read Apple's billions are worthless. They aren't.
As I have already stated,no proof is needed for something I never said.
You claimed that I had said millions of iPhone users had switched and then demanded proof of it.
The truth was completely different. I didn't say iPhone users and I didn't say they had switched.
MWC is this month. The most important world congress on mobile technology. This is part of where the industry plans and shapes future direction. Apple has never had a presence. Largely, It doesn't need to. Apple probably has around 15% of mobile OS share. Am I being generous or falling short with that figure? I don't know. What I know is that for every iOS device out there (however profitable for Apple), there are a whole heap more that aren't iOS. None of those billions of devices are connecting to iCloud Or anything Apple controlled. Those billions of users don't give a hoot about Apple or its profits but they don't live in caves either. They use cloud services, online banking, use their phones to make payments, monitor health. The rest of the industry is there to cater to them and it is colossal. In industry terms (seeing the whole picture) Apple caters to a small segment. It's the king of the hill but only its hill. It's a massive fish in the pond but its pond.
Insignificant yes. There are manufacturers that operate in the mid and lower end for whom Apple is even less than insignificant. Simply because their target markets don't overlap.
"Entire world?"
The industry also includes feature phones. Did you know that around 135 million feature phones were sold in India alone last year. And that margins on feature phones aren't that bad. Want to add Africa onto that?
Can you see things in more perspective now?
I am not dissmissive of Apple but I don't need to worship them either. They have done some amazing work. The iPhone 4 was one of my favourite phones. I have an iPhone 6, various iPads, desktops and laptops at home. But I'm not an Apple devotee for the sake of it. I accept criticism of decisions and accept other people's opinions.
As you wish but Apple is not insignificant to the industry. Don't take the word out of the context it was used in. You were referring to numbers, then profits and my comment was used in that context. Apple is still a reference on many levels. Samsung blatantly copied the iPhone and I was glad to see them taken to court. Things have changed a lot since then but Apple is still giving cues to others in the business.
So now compare my quote to what you claimed I had said. Can you see the chasm of difference between the two?
Seriously, don't continue with him. Each time his disagreement with whatever you said will change just a bit until he finally gets to something that "proves he's right and you were wrong all along", but far removed from whatever the original point was. Just let him "win" now, It's easier.
I used to have an iPhone but I could no longer justify the price difference so yes I bought a Huawei Honor phone which is basically on the level of an iPhone 6s but and here is the big but at one quarter of the price. Can it do everything an iPhone can, no of course it can't but can an iPhone do everything the Honor can? Well the answer is no, there is so little difference between the two it does not justify paying yes 4 times as much for an iPhone.
The Huawei EMUI is actually very good in fact it is better than iOS in many ways which is getting very stale after in reality not having changed that much in the past 10 years.
The build quality of Huawei phones is very much towards the top end and if anyone thinks that they are not a long term threat to Apple then they better think again as they are not a jumped up start up company but one with very deep pockets.
If anyone is in doubt about the quality they can bring read this review
P.S. Competition is a good thing and hopefully it will make Apple sit up and take note and so they get back to what they at least used to be good at is innovate, rather than sitting on their lazy fat backsides counting their cash the same way Microsoft did 20 years ago.
I used to have an iPhone but I could no longer justify the price difference so yes I bought a Huawei Honor phone which is basically on the level of an iPhone 6s but and here is the big but at one quarter of the price. Can it do everything an iPhone can, no of course it can't but can an iPhone do everything the Honor can? Well the answer is no, there is so little difference between the two it does not justify paying yes 4 times as much for an iPhone.
The Huawei EMUI is actually very good in fact it is better than iOS in many ways which is getting very stale after in reality not having changed that much in the past 10 years.
The build quality of Huawei phones is very much towards the top end and if anyone thinks that they are not a long term threat to Apple then they better think again as they are not a jumped up start up company but one with very deep pockets.
If anyone is in doubt about the quality they can bring read this review
P.S. Competition is a good thing and hopefully it will make Apple sit up and take note and so they get back to what they at least used to be good at is innovate, rather than sitting on their lazy fat backsides counting their cash the same way Microsoft did 20 years ago.
I agree with everything you say.
EMUI is very nice IMO. Perhaps it's because I came from an iPhone.
The Honor line is quite frankly amazing for the asking price. The Honor 7 broke new ground on design, features and power for its category.
Competition is definitely healthy and Apple is being challenged every step of the way but is currently not doing much about it.
Having high margins and benefitting from massive unit sales probably gives the company a false sense of security and knowing the iPhone 8 is on the horizon probably compounds that but rivals are there now and beginning to push not only into the premium lines but also into the ultra premium lines above Apple.
I'm not sure where Huawei wants to go with their ad campaign (the one linked to here is terrible btw) but if they did an 'I'm a Huawei and I'm an iPhone' style series the result could be painful for Apple.
That's how much things have swung away from Apple at this point in time.
People rightly speak highly of the A series processors but some think there's nothing else out there to put it up against. Huawei's 960 processor looks a very nice performer and paired with the Mali graphic processor make for a very powerful combination.
Perhaps the number one reason I switched was the lack of removable storage coupled to price.
When I actually switched to my first Huawei and realised I was getting much more than I imagined, when it came to upgrading, I chose them again, and once more I got far more than I expected. More importantly, I saved hundreds of euros into the bargain.
My wife has an iPhone 6 but it's actually given her more problems than I have had (which is zero).
She wants an iPhone 8 but that will depend on pricing. She has never had an Android though, so she doesn't really know how to compare the two. She's in the 'I'm happy with what I've got, why change?' camp.
I have no problem with that as she doesn't run around screaming my phone is a Chinese POS.
Comments
Apple's biggest iPhone quarter means very little in the context of the industry. It's good for Apple but is insignificant otherwise.
As for your other comment on profit, I will repeat myself. Insignificant in the industry but good for Apple. Do you want me to change good to 'great'? Fine, 'great'. It doesn't change anything.
Now open your mind a little bit and look beyond Apple. Apple has the lion's share of mobile phone profitability. It has had for a long time. It isn't really that newsworthy.
So exactly why do manufacturers still produce billions of phones with hardly any profit to be had? Does it make sense? Shouldn't they just throw in the towel?
Chew on that for a while and let me know your conclusions.
I will give you something that might help as this is a Huawei thread. They are relatively new to the handset market and turn in a profit although not as much as Apple. If you have a phone business that makes hundreds of millions in profit, is it a bad business just because Apple, in percentage terms, rakes in far more? If your core business is network cellphone communication hardware (something that end users never even see) and you can give beefy discounts on your phones to carriers that purchase your expensive infrastructure hardware, isn't it a win, win, win situation for all involved?
Carriers win (they get top notch hardware for infrastructure and a spread of cheaper phones to offer clients)
Users win with cheaper subsidized phones (even high end phones, just cheaper)
Huawei wins on every count of course
5G is not a pipedream. It will come and when it does Huawei will be there and so the cycle continues.
You are not seeing any of this because your government (security committees) have stopped deals going through between Huawei and carriers. Rightly or wrongly. I don't know if Huawei hardware has evil backdoors built in to send all our data back to China but I doubt they would have overtaken Ericsson if that were the case. Whatever the reality no one can say Huawei has not had an amazing rise in the handset market in the last two years. From basically nothing to a household name.
Handset profitability though, is not everything. Don't take that to read Apple's billions are worthless. They aren't.
You claimed that I had said millions of iPhone users had switched and then demanded proof of it.
The truth was completely different. I didn't say iPhone users and I didn't say they had switched.
MWC is this month. The most important world congress on mobile technology. This is part of where the industry plans and shapes future direction. Apple has never had a presence. Largely, It doesn't need to. Apple probably has around 15% of mobile OS share. Am I being generous or falling short with that figure? I don't know. What I know is that for every iOS device out there (however profitable for Apple), there are a whole heap more that aren't iOS. None of those billions of devices are connecting to iCloud Or anything Apple controlled. Those billions of users don't give a hoot about Apple or its profits but they don't live in caves either. They use cloud services, online banking, use their phones to make payments, monitor health. The rest of the industry is there to cater to them and it is colossal. In industry terms (seeing the whole picture) Apple caters to a small segment. It's the king of the hill but only its hill. It's a massive fish in the pond but its pond.
Insignificant yes. There are manufacturers that operate in the mid and lower end for whom Apple is even less than insignificant. Simply because their target markets don't overlap.
"Entire world?"
The industry also includes feature phones. Did you know that around 135 million feature phones were sold in India alone last year. And that margins on feature phones aren't that bad. Want to add Africa onto that?
Can you see things in more perspective now?
I am not dissmissive of Apple but I don't need to worship them either. They have done some amazing work. The iPhone 4 was one of my favourite phones. I have an iPhone 6, various iPads, desktops and laptops at home. But I'm not an Apple devotee for the sake of it. I accept criticism of decisions and accept other people's opinions.
The Huawei EMUI is actually very good in fact it is better than iOS in many ways which is getting very stale after in reality not having changed that much in the past 10 years.
The build quality of Huawei phones is very much towards the top end and if anyone thinks that they are not a long term threat to Apple then they better think again as they are not a jumped up start up company but one with very deep pockets.
If anyone is in doubt about the quality they can bring read this review
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/luxury/technology/porsche-design-huawei-mate-9-phone-leica-camera/
P.S. Competition is a good thing and hopefully it will make Apple sit up and take note and so they get back to what they at least used to be good at is innovate, rather than sitting on their lazy fat backsides counting their cash the same way Microsoft did 20 years ago.
EMUI is very nice IMO. Perhaps it's because I came from an iPhone.
The Honor line is quite frankly amazing for the asking price. The Honor 7 broke new ground on design, features and power for its category.
Competition is definitely healthy and Apple is being challenged every step of the way but is currently not doing much about it.
Having high margins and benefitting from massive unit sales probably gives the company a false sense of security and knowing the iPhone 8 is on the horizon probably compounds that but rivals are there now and beginning to push not only into the premium lines but also into the ultra premium lines above Apple.
I'm not sure where Huawei wants to go with their ad campaign (the one linked to here is terrible btw) but if they did an 'I'm a Huawei and I'm an iPhone' style series the result could be painful for Apple.
That's how much things have swung away from Apple at this point in time.
People rightly speak highly of the A series processors but some think there's nothing else out there to put it up against. Huawei's 960 processor looks a very nice performer and paired with the Mali graphic processor make for a very powerful combination.
Perhaps the number one reason I switched was the lack of removable storage coupled to price.
When I actually switched to my first Huawei and realised I was getting much more than I imagined, when it came to upgrading, I chose them again, and once more I got far more than I expected. More importantly, I saved hundreds of euros into the bargain.
My wife has an iPhone 6 but it's actually given her more problems than I have had (which is zero).
She wants an iPhone 8 but that will depend on pricing. She has never had an Android though, so she doesn't really know how to compare the two. She's in the 'I'm happy with what I've got, why change?' camp.
I have no problem with that as she doesn't run around screaming my phone is a Chinese POS.
Re: She's in the 'I'm happy with what I've got, why change?' camp
Sounds like we have got the same wife !!!
I hope not! We just got back from looking at taps for a wash basin and she managed to single one out that cost 2,000€!!!!
She might get an iPhone 8 but there's no way I'm shelling out 2000€ on a tap!!! LOL
You ever seen the Hitchcock film "Strangers on a Train" ? Maybe time to update to "Strangers on a Skype"....
Anyway good luck with the tap, I think you're going to need it (and I don't mean the tap)....