I'm all for it! No reason for Apple or others to make things so hard to tear apart! Especially these days when everything is so thin. Like an Air you should be able to take the bottom cover off and everything laid out and simply removed after a few screws from a single layer. Same for iPhone. Remove two screws, lift the screen, easily unplug, easily replace logic board, etc. No reason for gluing batteries in place, etc. If they can build it for beauty inside and out they can built it to be easily taken apart and repaired instead of the overly complicated ways they do now on purpose!
There's likely very good reason any glued components are glued. Phone get jostled, dropped, creating impacts that might shift internal components. And that could create exactly the tolerance issues that Samsung cited as causing battery fires.
On top of that, I believe the gluing at least around the case is part of the water proofing. Thats another thing about going to Bob's iPhone repair. They may not be able to make it seal back up properly. What if you got this iPhone off eBay or something not knowing it was opened and not properly sealed back up? So you get it wet thinking its not big deal when in fact that water leaked inside it. I can see legal issues with this already.
Apple will lose this eventually. They charge a fortune for repairs and have been caught hiding error code info to the detriment of professional repair shops. Consumers have no alternative but to pay hundreds for a logic board replacement even in the case where a cable is disconnected. In the case of water damage warranty is already lost so denying consumers the right to pay for it to be cleaned instead of being thrown away and a new one purchased is harmful for the environement. Apple will likely be forced to provide more realistic repair options rather than silly flat rate full replacements.
Why not just buy the AppleCare+ warranty and then its covered? Its a small price to pay vs paying for a repair. Its no different than anything else. If you don't think you need to buy an extended warranty (including accidental) then thats the risk you take. I would much rather have Apple do the repair vs Bob's screen repair in a mall where they take a shitty piece of glass and replace it where as if you go to Apple to get it repaired you're at least getting OEM parts put back in by experienced people and these people have the resources of Apple to fall back on.
As far as something like a home button well that's a security issue there because it has the finger print reader on it. I wouldn't want some $2 home button that looks just like the OEM one but works like shit, and could present itself to be a major security issue. You don't know where the sensor was made, how well it works, what data its recording, etc, etc. Again, I'd much rather have Apple do the repair.
Just because you buy something doesn't mean you have the right to get it repaired wherever you want under warranty. Apple isn't alone with this. One example I can think of is if you get a Dodge Charger or Challenger Hellcat the supercharger is a a sealed unit. If you open it, you void the warranty and as soon as a dealer sees it was opened they'll flag your VIN an no dealership can perform warranty work on it.
AppleCare+ is GREAT! I get it on all of my Apple products. But, after 24 months and a minute, it is gone. Gone like it had never existed. So, for any product over 2 years old, we are back to asking: How and Who can repair them?
"Timmy's Apple is a far cry from Steve Jobs' Apple."
Regarding being wholeheartedly against "Right to Repair", Steve Jobs wrote the book.
Yes, this goes FAR beyond simple questions of repairability. It is essentially refighting the issue over OPEN vs CLOSED systems.
Jobs' contention was that he had made the perfect product and any tinkering would make it less than perfect. Gate's said, "Go ahead and tinker" -- Replace motherboards, cpu's, memory, harddrives, power supplies, add/change/remove cards -- even OS's.
There are advantages and disadvantages to either approach. While it would provide some benefit to some users, to force Apple to use the Gate's open systems approach would create significant collateral damage to the product.
Conversely, I can hear the advocates of opening up the Apple product line to 3rd party repair (which could then include customization) crying that the only reason Apple restricts repairs to its own facilities is so that they can make more money. That just isn't true. They may profit from it. But it is not the only reason or even the primary reason.
Apple will lose this eventually. They charge a fortune for repairs and have been caught hiding error code info to the detriment of professional repair shops. Consumers have no alternative but to pay hundreds for a logic board replacement even in the case where a cable is disconnected. In the case of water damage warranty is already lost so denying consumers the right to pay for it to be cleaned instead of being thrown away and a new one purchased is harmful for the environement. Apple will likely be forced to provide more realistic repair options rather than silly flat rate full replacements.
Why not just buy the AppleCare+ warranty and then its covered? Its a small price to pay vs paying for a repair. Its no different than anything else. If you don't think you need to buy an extended warranty (including accidental) then thats the risk you take. I would much rather have Apple do the repair vs Bob's screen repair in a mall where they take a shitty piece of glass and replace it where as if you go to Apple to get it repaired you're at least getting OEM parts put back in by experienced people and these people have the resources of Apple to fall back on.
As far as something like a home button well that's a security issue there because it has the finger print reader on it. I wouldn't want some $2 home button that looks just like the OEM one but works like shit, and could present itself to be a major security issue. You don't know where the sensor was made, how well it works, what data its recording, etc, etc. Again, I'd much rather have Apple do the repair.
Just because you buy something doesn't mean you have the right to get it repaired wherever you want under warranty. Apple isn't alone with this. One example I can think of is if you get a Dodge Charger or Challenger Hellcat the supercharger is a a sealed unit. If you open it, you void the warranty and as soon as a dealer sees it was opened they'll flag your VIN an no dealership can perform warranty work on it.
AppleCare+ is GREAT! I get it on all of my Apple products. But, after 24 months and a minute, it is gone. Gone like it had never existed. So, for any product over 2 years old, we are back to asking: How and Who can repair them?
I think what's happening is people get new phones and don't get AppleCare+ for one reason or another and then drop it and break the screen or get it wet and cry foul because its expensive to fix. In other words, Apple needs to make their products repairable and fixable because people are careless and don't want to spend the money for AppleCare+.
Don't see what the problem with this is as long as Apple is allowed to (i) void the warranty; (ii) refuse to guarantee any software updates. If the law is forcing Apple to honour those things then it's obviously bullshit.
Right to Repair makes sense for something like automobiles so people can have their vehicle serviced/repaired anywhere they want.
It doesn't make sense for something like an iPhone, which is an intricate piece of electronic hardware.
It's a bit naive to suggest that cars, as built today, are not "intricate piece[s] of [among other things] electronic hardware'... Many of them even have lithium battery technology, so the argument needs to differentiate on that point. Further, if Apple can train its own people to repair these devices, and can certify other parties, it might be reasonable to suggest that providing detailed manuals would, in fact, lead to the level of expertise required to repair them safely... It really appears more likely that Apple is concerned with its own repair/replace revenues, not solely with public safety.
I'm all for it! No reason for Apple or others to make things so hard to tear apart! Especially these days when everything is so thin. Like an Air you should be able to take the bottom cover off and everything laid out and simply removed after a few screws from a single layer. Same for iPhone. Remove two screws, lift the screen, easily unplug, easily replace logic board, etc. No reason for gluing batteries in place, etc. If they can build it for beauty inside and out they can built it to be easily taken apart and repaired instead of the overly complicated ways they do now on purpose!
There's likely very good reason any glued components are glued. Phone get jostled, dropped, creating impacts that might shift internal components. And that could create exactly the tolerance issues that Samsung cited as causing battery fires.
On top of that, I believe the gluing at least around the case is part of the water proofing. Thats another thing about going to Bob's iPhone repair. They may not be able to make it seal back up properly. What if you got this iPhone off eBay or something not knowing it was opened and not properly sealed back up? So you get it wet thinking its not big deal when in fact that water leaked inside it. I can see legal issues with this already.
You raise a valid point but as I touched on earlier, we should be moving away from 'disposable' electronic devices and designing for repairability.
No, Apple. Let us repair the products we have purchased and paid for. If Apple wishes to keep secrets and repair fees, then the selling price must come down a lot, or repairs must be immediately accessible by any owner, anywhere, and very, very cheap - which is, of course, ridiculous.
Phones these days are absurdly complex and packed; right to repair would mean right to fuck up your phone badly....
What mom and pop shop would actually have the tools and expertise (or the money to develop/buy those tools and expertise) to fix a sealed Apple 7+ phone and reseal it properly?
Right to Repair is for people to have their screens and batteries replaced conveniently. I must disagree with you here, as neither of these basic repairs are complex or difficult, having done a dozen myself. If Apple wants to seal their devices, then I expect to be compensated handsomely, not held for ransom when I have a cracked screen.
Unauthorized repairs would complicate warranty and security for devices. It is unlikely that Apple would warranty or even repair devices serviced outside its system of trained authorized shops. With regards to the battery, Apple's continuing focus on smaller, denser, highly integrated devices with increased functionality repairs will become increasingly difficult and I think dangerous.
Customers will blame Apple when unauthorized repairs compromise performance, security, and/or safety. The Apple brand would suffer with little recourse for Apple.
Compounding the the problem will be reduced resale value of devices that may have been repaired outside Apple channels and the new buyer is unaware.
A better move would be to increase the warranty period from 1 yr plus pay for second to 2 years with pay for the third. This protects consumers while extending value.
These kinds of laws are totally oblivious to the reality of the complexity of modern integrated systems like the iPhone. One could argue that the iPhone itself is a combination of hardware and software "parts" and that Apple be required to provide "schematics" for the embedded software parts of the products, i.e., the source code for the embedded software/firmware and microcode. If these naive states continue to push their antiquated farm tractor perspective into complex integrated hardware-software systems and products manufacturers will have no recourse other than to pot up everything that goes inside the product, including components that could be serviceable like batteries, into a single unserviceable macro component. Attempts to service or disassemble such a "uni-component" would render it nonfunctional and permanently destroyed. I personally believe this scenario is going to happen anyway due to security considerations. Any replacement component, hardware or software - even batteries, represents an attack vector for malware and hacking. Just a matter of time but it'll happen sooner with laws such as the ones being proposed.
I'm all for it! No reason for Apple or others to make things so hard to tear apart! Especially these days when everything is so thin. Like an Air you should be able to take the bottom cover off and everything laid out and simply removed after a few screws from a single layer. Same for iPhone. Remove two screws, lift the screen, easily unplug, easily replace logic board, etc. No reason for gluing batteries in place, etc. If they can build it for beauty inside and out they can built it to be easily taken apart and repaired instead of the overly complicated ways they do now on purpose!
There's likely very good reason any glued components are glued. Phone get jostled, dropped, creating impacts that might shift internal components. And that could create exactly the tolerance issues that Samsung cited as causing battery fires.
On top of that, I believe the gluing at least around the case is part of the water proofing. Thats another thing about going to Bob's iPhone repair. They may not be able to make it seal back up properly. What if you got this iPhone off eBay or something not knowing it was opened and not properly sealed back up? So you get it wet thinking its not big deal when in fact that water leaked inside it. I can see legal issues with this already.
You raise a valid point but as I touched on earlier, we should be moving away from 'disposable' electronic devices and designing for repairability.
I think its BS that Apple should have to spend extra time trying to figure out how to make their products repairable by 3rd parties. Why should Apple be made to spend Millions more in R&D/Engineering just so Bob's iPhone repair can fix something? Apple has never done this with the Mac so why all of sudden is this an issue? Like I said, its people who are careless and don't buy warranties (which is Apple's solution to getting it fixed cheap) who are complaining. Not everything you buy should be repairable.
I'm all for it! No reason for Apple or others to make things so hard to tear apart! Especially these days when everything is so thin. Like an Air you should be able to take the bottom cover off and everything laid out and simply removed after a few screws from a single layer. Same for iPhone. Remove two screws, lift the screen, easily unplug, easily replace logic board, etc. No reason for gluing batteries in place, etc. If they can build it for beauty inside and out they can built it to be easily taken apart and repaired instead of the overly complicated ways they do now on purpose!
Must be nice to engineer things so perfectly in your mind. Here in the real world, there actually are reasons for using glue.
Do you support right-to-repair acts for, say, Pacemakers?
I have and use Apple products. I have bought-into the Apple Eco System. I like the freedom and options of being able to shop for my repair center. I believe in the owner's Right to Repair. I am inclined to take my device back to Apple for a repair but I want it to be my choice. I am displeased with Apple's position. IMHO, Timmy's Apple is a far cry from Steve Jobs' Apple. While neither iteration was perfect, Timmy's is lame.
Apple doesnt have a leg to stand on here. It will be a sad day if they win. Worst the issue they are trying to use as an excuse here "batteries" is exactly why this legislation is needed. Repairs like this need the proper parts available to do tge fix correctly.
Beyond that people in this thread act as if an Apple computer or cell phone is some mysterious device that good oke Americans cant understand. Frankly this is no different than a watch repair, some people can do it some cant. You don't make watch repairs illegal just because there are a few idiots in the business.
You're conflating what is being asked. It's not now illegal to repair your phone, nor is that what Apple is asking. They just don't want to be forced to have to help you.
Apple will lose this eventually. They charge a fortune for repairs and have been caught hiding error code info to the detriment of professional repair shops.
Right to Repair makes sense for something like automobiles so people can have their vehicle serviced/repaired anywhere they want.
It doesn't make sense for something like an iPhone, which is an intricate piece of electronic hardware.
It's a bit naive to suggest that cars, as built today, are not "intricate piece[s] of [among other things] electronic hardware'... Many of them even have lithium battery technology, so the argument needs to differentiate on that point. Further, if Apple can train its own people to repair these devices, and can certify other parties, it might be reasonable to suggest that providing detailed manuals would, in fact, lead to the level of expertise required to repair them safely... It really appears more likely that Apple is concerned with its own repair/replace revenues, not solely with public safety.
I really doubt this. How much do they make in repairs? Is it even a line item in their earnings statements? Not new sales, which are eternal, but repairs?
Comments
On top of that, I believe the gluing at least around the case is part of the water proofing. Thats another thing about going to Bob's iPhone repair. They may not be able to make it seal back up properly. What if you got this iPhone off eBay or something not knowing it was opened and not properly sealed back up? So you get it wet thinking its not big deal when in fact that water leaked inside it. I can see legal issues with this already.
Jobs' contention was that he had made the perfect product and any tinkering would make it less than perfect. Gate's said, "Go ahead and tinker" -- Replace motherboards, cpu's, memory, harddrives, power supplies, add/change/remove cards -- even OS's.
There are advantages and disadvantages to either approach. While it would provide some benefit to some users, to force Apple to use the Gate's open systems approach would create significant collateral damage to the product.
Conversely, I can hear the advocates of opening up the Apple product line to 3rd party repair (which could then include customization) crying that the only reason Apple restricts repairs to its own facilities is so that they can make more money. That just isn't true. They may profit from it. But it is not the only reason or even the primary reason.
Many of them even have lithium battery technology, so the argument needs to differentiate on that point.
Further, if Apple can train its own people to repair these devices, and can certify other parties, it might be reasonable to suggest
that providing detailed manuals would, in fact, lead to the level of expertise required to repair them safely...
It really appears more likely that Apple is concerned with its own repair/replace revenues, not solely with public safety.
http://www.semblant.com/news/semblant-ceo-discuss-waterproof-nanocoatings-enable-repair-recycle-reuse-consumer-electronic-devices-5th-international-congress-green-process-engineering/
Customers will blame Apple when unauthorized repairs compromise performance, security, and/or safety. The Apple brand would suffer with little recourse for Apple.
Compounding the the problem will be reduced resale value of devices that may have been repaired outside Apple channels and the new buyer is unaware.
A better move would be to increase the warranty period from 1 yr plus pay for second to 2 years with pay for the third. This protects consumers while extending value.
Do you support right-to-repair acts for, say, Pacemakers?
Profound. Why don't you call Jobs "Stevie"?
Link?