Cook pledges support to pro users, talks Trump at Apple's annual shareholder meeting in Cu...

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  • Reply 101 of 132
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    crowley said:
    crowley said:
    There's only one verifiable liar here.
    I don't see any liars -- just those ignorant to the reality of markets, choices, and responsibility. And some tinfoil hat nonsense about Cook lying to the stockholders, despite that being illegal.
    You don't see how Soli claiming I said things that I categorically did not say is lying?

    Soli - "You're also claiming Apple has zero plans for any future products and will have no products coming out this year that will be used a single professional?"
    Me - "I didn't say or claim any of those things"
    Soli - "You did, hence my quoting your comments and replying directly to your comments."

    Soli cannot point to any comment I made where I say those things, because one does not exist.  He is a liar.
    I did. I replied to altivec88 which you tried to counter with an image of a Mac Pro from MacRumor's Buyer's Guide, as previously stated. Your implication is clear, even if you've chosen to not use complete sentences so you can weasel out of your position later on.
  • Reply 102 of 132
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    zoetmb said:

    It has nothing to do with cheaper parts (although Apple's prices for memory and storage ARE ripoffs).  It's buying what one needs today with viable options to upgrade later.   Let's say I'm a photographer, but not a videographer.   I might buy a machine with a 1TB drive.   Then my business changes and I'm doing lots of video, often on the road.   Well now I need a 2TB or 3TB machine.   But I have to buy a whole new machine after paying Apple's high prices?        
    Or you could maybe use an external SSD...which is what I do.  Given the speed of the external interfaces it is no longer necessary to have huge internal drives.  No matter how much you have you'll always fill them anyway.

    The only time I've found external drives to be a significant hassle is on a plane. 
  • Reply 103 of 132
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    nht said:
    The only time I've found external drives to be a significant hassle is on a plane. 
    Me, too—once. Then I bought a longer USB cable so I can keep it tucked into the seatback pocket. I probably should've bought one long enough so it can stay in my bag.

    In any event, that hasn't been a necessary for a very long time. Going forward having an external battery pack on the plane with the USB-C cable may come in handy for long flights.
  • Reply 104 of 132
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    dysamoria said:

    Content creators (audio, video, graphics, programming), scientific modeling, and all manner of other power users are doing things you won't find in an office. Apple is no longer serving such customers in any way.
    Don't speak for programmers or scientists.  We like our macs.  Someone remarked to me that he couldn't think of any developer under 30 in our office with a windows machine.  They were all running macs or linux.

    I don't think you can speak for graphics folks either.
  • Reply 105 of 132
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    crowley said:
    Why is an image showing the length of time that the current Mac Pro has been on sale for irrelevant or ridiculous in a thread about Macs and Pro users, when the subject is about releases in the near future?

    Wtf are you talking about?
    It's irrelevant because pros also use MBPs and iMacs.
  • Reply 106 of 132
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    northgate said:
    I'm a huge Mac guy.  We have two MacBooks, two iPhones and an iPad in my household.  But I just built a new PC workstation for my video editing business.  I don't mind paying the Apple tax, but what I do mind is paying it for years old technology that was already a generation old when it debuted.  Core i7 6850k and 6850x's would've been just find in upgraded Mac Pro with updated ports.  I don't buy this notion that it has to be Xenon's or nothing.
    The key lack in MacOS is native support for external GPUs.  That would solve the majority of the issues for video folks...especially ones that have MBPs.

    It's Xenons or nothing because some Mac Pro users have ECC requirements.
  • Reply 107 of 132
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    crowley said:

    crowley said:
    Soli said:
    altivec88 said:
    Soli said:
    Personally, I don't care if the Mac Pro is ever updated, but I lean toward updating it or getting rid of it altogether just to shut people up. Clearly the sales aren't high enough to warrant annual updates, so the people bitching about that on here are either in a very small group of Mac Pro buyers are bitching about a product they've never owned.

    I've never once had a product from Apple that had exactly what I wanted, but I weigh the pros and cons and then make a decision based on what will benefit me the most. Apple owes you nothing and you owe them nothing. Buy what suits your needs and leave it at that. If that means not choosing an Apple product then that's how you let Apple know they're not getting your business. It's that fucking simple.
    So let me get this straight.  You don't own or need a MacPro.  You don't care if the Mac Pro ever gets updated but at the same time, those that do need and require them are not allowed to voice their displeasure with out the Soli Internet police coming out and saying "I don't need it updated so therefor it doesn't need updating".  Look sir,  I don't really care about you myopic view of life.   This topic is about Pro's.  If you "don't care" or want to hear pro's bitch about the state of the Mac, I suggest you stay away from those articles and more importantly don't post on a topic you clearly know nothing about and from your own words don't even care about.

    Apple is free to do what ever they want.  If they want to kill the MacPro, then that is their prerogative.  Tim should just say we are going in a different direction and we are not getting enough sales in the pro market to justify our involvement.  End of storey.  Instead, we get continuous pathetic words that say "Desktops are very important to us, they're in our road map" and "Pro's are very important to us" followed by actions that are polar opposite (leading us to 4 year update cycles. products well behind competitors in every way).  I call those lies, you can call them what ever you want.  Then you state that one of those new MacBook Pro's should solve all the pro's problem.  LOL.   Don't get me wrong, the MacBook Pro is an excellent machine but a lot of Pro's need power much greater than what can be had from a Mobile GPU and a few cores of mobile CPU.   Even the current MacPro is a great machine if the year was 2013 and the world sat still.  As I mentioned, both Dell and HP have updated their desktop workstations twice in that time and currently offer 44core systems, with 2017 graphic cards, the latest ram specs, etc. so that is what I have to compare it to.  For the same price as a 12 core mac with ancient graphics, I can get a 36 core Dell with high end Dual Nvidia Quadro's and DDR4 that will make the MacPro look like its 2013 all over again.

    To be clear this whole discussion is not whether Apple should or should not update the MacPro.  Its about Tim spewing his words around as if they mean anything to the pro community.  His words don't make me any money,  a new MacPro will.  So put out or shut up.
    Regardless of your Mac Pro needs—which is questionable based on your comments—you've repeatedly claimed that Tim Cook has no interest in any professional user whereby you called him a liar for saying there are road maps and products in the pipeline because you don't consider anything else a professional-grade product. That makes your entire argument bull-fucking-shit.
    Some people used language that was a bit too spicy for you so you start mouthing off?  Cry me a fucking river; you've made a complete ass of yourself in this thread.
    Nonsense. He's continued to hammer the same point into deaf ears -- the nMP is not the only Pro series product Apple makes. To say that because it hasn't been updated for reasons we know nothing about means Cook is lying to you is simply idiotic. 
    No one said it was the only one.  It is, however, an important one.  And it's been over three years.  

    Cook's rhetoric is consistent, but the actions of Apple of the past years regarding professional customers has been lacking.  Software has been retired (Aperture, Color, Shake), or suffered clumsy releases (FCPX), and hardware has gone without updates (MP), or problematic updates (MBP).  And momentum all round seems to have slowed.

    Soli, in between his lies about me, accused me of distorting the truth by only posting a Mac Pro screenshot from the Buyers Guide.  Let's remedy that...



    Look at that trend.  And Soli implied that the MBP was some kind of counter to the MP example.

    There's a lot of reason to be sceptical about the depth of Apple's sincerity here.  I have no doubt that they have some roadmap for future pro hardware and software (contrary to Soli's lies, I have never claimed otherwise), but the current pace is not something to get excited about, and words are just words.

    I don't see any reason to get tetchy with people who are unhappy about this.  If you don't care about the pro segment then go hang out in other threads, Soli and others getting defensive just seems like the fanboys rallying and not brooking any criticism. 
    The trend is once a year with an extra processor bump from time to time.  Historically 2008 got one model, 2009 two, 2010 one, 2011 two, 2012 two, 2013 two, 2014 one, 2015 one.

    Your implied assertion that MBP development is trending down is incorrect.  There was an extra gap that might have been filled with a spec bump in years past but that is wasn't isn't any indication that we won't see a 2017 MBP.

    jim w
  • Reply 108 of 132
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    nht said:

    crowley said:

    crowley said:
    Soli said:
    altivec88 said:
    Soli said:
    Personally, I don't care if the Mac Pro is ever updated, but I lean toward updating it or getting rid of it altogether just to shut people up. Clearly the sales aren't high enough to warrant annual updates, so the people bitching about that on here are either in a very small group of Mac Pro buyers are bitching about a product they've never owned.

    I've never once had a product from Apple that had exactly what I wanted, but I weigh the pros and cons and then make a decision based on what will benefit me the most. Apple owes you nothing and you owe them nothing. Buy what suits your needs and leave it at that. If that means not choosing an Apple product then that's how you let Apple know they're not getting your business. It's that fucking simple.
    So let me get this straight.  You don't own or need a MacPro.  You don't care if the Mac Pro ever gets updated but at the same time, those that do need and require them are not allowed to voice their displeasure with out the Soli Internet police coming out and saying "I don't need it updated so therefor it doesn't need updating".  Look sir,  I don't really care about you myopic view of life.   This topic is about Pro's.  If you "don't care" or want to hear pro's bitch about the state of the Mac, I suggest you stay away from those articles and more importantly don't post on a topic you clearly know nothing about and from your own words don't even care about.

    Apple is free to do what ever they want.  If they want to kill the MacPro, then that is their prerogative.  Tim should just say we are going in a different direction and we are not getting enough sales in the pro market to justify our involvement.  End of storey.  Instead, we get continuous pathetic words that say "Desktops are very important to us, they're in our road map" and "Pro's are very important to us" followed by actions that are polar opposite (leading us to 4 year update cycles. products well behind competitors in every way).  I call those lies, you can call them what ever you want.  Then you state that one of those new MacBook Pro's should solve all the pro's problem.  LOL.   Don't get me wrong, the MacBook Pro is an excellent machine but a lot of Pro's need power much greater than what can be had from a Mobile GPU and a few cores of mobile CPU.   Even the current MacPro is a great machine if the year was 2013 and the world sat still.  As I mentioned, both Dell and HP have updated their desktop workstations twice in that time and currently offer 44core systems, with 2017 graphic cards, the latest ram specs, etc. so that is what I have to compare it to.  For the same price as a 12 core mac with ancient graphics, I can get a 36 core Dell with high end Dual Nvidia Quadro's and DDR4 that will make the MacPro look like its 2013 all over again.

    To be clear this whole discussion is not whether Apple should or should not update the MacPro.  Its about Tim spewing his words around as if they mean anything to the pro community.  His words don't make me any money,  a new MacPro will.  So put out or shut up.
    Regardless of your Mac Pro needs—which is questionable based on your comments—you've repeatedly claimed that Tim Cook has no interest in any professional user whereby you called him a liar for saying there are road maps and products in the pipeline because you don't consider anything else a professional-grade product. That makes your entire argument bull-fucking-shit.
    Some people used language that was a bit too spicy for you so you start mouthing off?  Cry me a fucking river; you've made a complete ass of yourself in this thread.
    Nonsense. He's continued to hammer the same point into deaf ears -- the nMP is not the only Pro series product Apple makes. To say that because it hasn't been updated for reasons we know nothing about means Cook is lying to you is simply idiotic. 
    No one said it was the only one.  It is, however, an important one.  And it's been over three years.  

    Cook's rhetoric is consistent, but the actions of Apple of the past years regarding professional customers has been lacking.  Software has been retired (Aperture, Color, Shake), or suffered clumsy releases (FCPX), and hardware has gone without updates (MP), or problematic updates (MBP).  And momentum all round seems to have slowed.

    Soli, in between his lies about me, accused me of distorting the truth by only posting a Mac Pro screenshot from the Buyers Guide.  Let's remedy that...



    Look at that trend.  And Soli implied that the MBP was some kind of counter to the MP example.

    There's a lot of reason to be sceptical about the depth of Apple's sincerity here.  I have no doubt that they have some roadmap for future pro hardware and software (contrary to Soli's lies, I have never claimed otherwise), but the current pace is not something to get excited about, and words are just words.

    I don't see any reason to get tetchy with people who are unhappy about this.  If you don't care about the pro segment then go hang out in other threads, Soli and others getting defensive just seems like the fanboys rallying and not brooking any criticism. 
    The trend is once a year with an extra processor bump from time to time.  Historically 2008 got one model, 2009 two, 2010 one, 2011 two, 2012 two, 2013 two, 2014 one, 2015 one.

    Your implied assertion that MBP development is trending down is incorrect.  There was an extra gap that might have been filled with a spec bump in years past but that is wasn't isn't any indication that we won't see a 2017 MBP.

    The trend is right there.  The numbers are right there.  It may not be a cast iron indication of when the next release will be, statistics should not be conflated with probability, but in the absence of any other evidence than Cook's vague promises it's the best indication we've got.  If you have any other evidence then please share.  Data from 5 years ago is hardly convincing.
  • Reply 109 of 132
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    nht said:
    crowley said:
    Why is an image showing the length of time that the current Mac Pro has been on sale for irrelevant or ridiculous in a thread about Macs and Pro users, when the subject is about releases in the near future?

    Wtf are you talking about?
    It's irrelevant because pros also use MBPs and iMacs.
    No, it's still relevant.  It's not the only indicator, but it is certainly relevant.  Don't trip over obvious truths in your rush to defend poor, beleagured Apple.
  • Reply 110 of 132
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    Sorry, Tim… we don't need you to tell us that you're "…not abandoning" us – we need you to build us a killer MacPro that can handle raw RED 8K files!
    Do you shoot 8K?  No, I didn't think so.  Someone who did:
    "When given the opportunity by Jarred Land to shoot a video with the new RED Helium 8K camera, the first thing that went through our minds was all the different things we wanted to shoot with it. Right after that however, was how in the world would we edit it. 
    On the day of the shoot we set up our DIT station. Our setup included an Apple Mac Pro, a Dell 27" P2715Q Monitor and the 32tb G Technology G Speed Shuttle XL with two evSeries MINI-MAG Readers. 
    ..
    After the first few scenes were shot we took the Mini Mag and backed up the footage to the G Speed raid and a secondary backup drive. With the evSeries Mini Mag reader it took about 35 minutes to transfer 480gbs which was really impressive for the speed. 
    Once all the files were backed up we ran into the issue of codec support in Adobe Premiere Pro CC and REDCINE-X Pro. Luckily Dan Duran and Kris Prygrocki two of the RED techs brought an unreleased version of REDCINE-X Pro for me to install. It's currently released now as build 41. The 8K r3d files opened with no issue and I was able to play the footage at 1/4th without any buffer issues. "
    ..
    "Once the clips exported I opened Premiere Pro and made all of the 2K files unlinked. Then I relinked the missing clips with the 8K ProRes clips and just like that the video was full 8K. On a side note, I also selected the newly relinked 8K clips in Premiere Pro and used the new Proxy feature in the latest Adobe Premiere Pro CC update to reference the already exported 2K clips. Switching between the 8K file and 2K file was effortless because of the Proxy Toggle."

    http://www.abandonvisuals.com/blog/underdog

    Yes, they used 2K ProRes proxies but the whole shoot was 23 hours.

    "How was it working with 8K files? Tell me a bit about the workflow.

    Workflow wasn’t too much of a hassle.

    We figured that Premiere Pro wouldn’t have support since the camera was unreleased. So the RED techs gave us the latest version of REDCINE-X Pro, which was unreleased at the time. With that version we were able to transcode the footage to ProRes. We did a few test exports with the RED techs in various formats, resolutions, and bitrates and found the fastest option would be a 2K ProRes 422 LT file.

    After everything finished transcoding we edited the 2K footage in Premiere Pro in an 8K timeline. Once the edit was locked, we sent an xml of the timeline over to REDCINE-X Pro and batched all the .r3d clips into a bin.

    Next we created an export preset for 8K ProRes 4444 and exported all of the 8K .r3d files that were used in the locked edit. Once the 8K files were exported, we replaced the used 2K ProRes files with the 8K ProRes files.

    Finally we graded the footage and then began exporting the final cut.”

    https://lutify.me/creating-the-underdog-first-released-red-helium-8k-footage/

    Johnny Mass is 19 years old.  

    I don't think he's whining about Apple abandoning him.  I think he's too busy shooting.

  • Reply 111 of 132
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    nht said:

    crowley said:

    crowley said:
    Soli said:
    altivec88 said:
    Soli said:
    Personally, I don't care if the Mac Pro is ever updated, but I lean toward updating it or getting rid of it altogether just to shut people up. Clearly the sales aren't high enough to warrant annual updates, so the people bitching about that on here are either in a very small group of Mac Pro buyers are bitching about a product they've never owned.

    I've never once had a product from Apple that had exactly what I wanted, but I weigh the pros and cons and then make a decision based on what will benefit me the most. Apple owes you nothing and you owe them nothing. Buy what suits your needs and leave it at that. If that means not choosing an Apple product then that's how you let Apple know they're not getting your business. It's that fucking simple.
    So let me get this straight.  You don't own or need a MacPro.  You don't care if the Mac Pro ever gets updated but at the same time, those that do need and require them are not allowed to voice their displeasure with out the Soli Internet police coming out and saying "I don't need it updated so therefor it doesn't need updating".  Look sir,  I don't really care about you myopic view of life.   This topic is about Pro's.  If you "don't care" or want to hear pro's bitch about the state of the Mac, I suggest you stay away from those articles and more importantly don't post on a topic you clearly know nothing about and from your own words don't even care about.

    Apple is free to do what ever they want.  If they want to kill the MacPro, then that is their prerogative.  Tim should just say we are going in a different direction and we are not getting enough sales in the pro market to justify our involvement.  End of storey.  Instead, we get continuous pathetic words that say "Desktops are very important to us, they're in our road map" and "Pro's are very important to us" followed by actions that are polar opposite (leading us to 4 year update cycles. products well behind competitors in every way).  I call those lies, you can call them what ever you want.  Then you state that one of those new MacBook Pro's should solve all the pro's problem.  LOL.   Don't get me wrong, the MacBook Pro is an excellent machine but a lot of Pro's need power much greater than what can be had from a Mobile GPU and a few cores of mobile CPU.   Even the current MacPro is a great machine if the year was 2013 and the world sat still.  As I mentioned, both Dell and HP have updated their desktop workstations twice in that time and currently offer 44core systems, with 2017 graphic cards, the latest ram specs, etc. so that is what I have to compare it to.  For the same price as a 12 core mac with ancient graphics, I can get a 36 core Dell with high end Dual Nvidia Quadro's and DDR4 that will make the MacPro look like its 2013 all over again.

    To be clear this whole discussion is not whether Apple should or should not update the MacPro.  Its about Tim spewing his words around as if they mean anything to the pro community.  His words don't make me any money,  a new MacPro will.  So put out or shut up.
    Regardless of your Mac Pro needs—which is questionable based on your comments—you've repeatedly claimed that Tim Cook has no interest in any professional user whereby you called him a liar for saying there are road maps and products in the pipeline because you don't consider anything else a professional-grade product. That makes your entire argument bull-fucking-shit.
    Some people used language that was a bit too spicy for you so you start mouthing off?  Cry me a fucking river; you've made a complete ass of yourself in this thread.
    Nonsense. He's continued to hammer the same point into deaf ears -- the nMP is not the only Pro series product Apple makes. To say that because it hasn't been updated for reasons we know nothing about means Cook is lying to you is simply idiotic. 
    No one said it was the only one.  It is, however, an important one.  And it's been over three years.  

    Cook's rhetoric is consistent, but the actions of Apple of the past years regarding professional customers has been lacking.  Software has been retired (Aperture, Color, Shake), or suffered clumsy releases (FCPX), and hardware has gone without updates (MP), or problematic updates (MBP).  And momentum all round seems to have slowed.

    Soli, in between his lies about me, accused me of distorting the truth by only posting a Mac Pro screenshot from the Buyers Guide.  Let's remedy that...



    Look at that trend.  And Soli implied that the MBP was some kind of counter to the MP example.

    There's a lot of reason to be sceptical about the depth of Apple's sincerity here.  I have no doubt that they have some roadmap for future pro hardware and software (contrary to Soli's lies, I have never claimed otherwise), but the current pace is not something to get excited about, and words are just words.

    I don't see any reason to get tetchy with people who are unhappy about this.  If you don't care about the pro segment then go hang out in other threads, Soli and others getting defensive just seems like the fanboys rallying and not brooking any criticism. 
    The trend is once a year with an extra processor bump from time to time.  Historically 2008 got one model, 2009 two, 2010 one, 2011 two, 2012 two, 2013 two, 2014 one, 2015 one.
    I miss the 3 processor bumps about every 2 years. Maybe with Tick-Tock-Optimization-Optimization, Intel might be able to get back to that.
  • Reply 112 of 132
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,625member
    nht said:
    crowley said:
    Why is an image showing the length of time that the current Mac Pro has been on sale for irrelevant or ridiculous in a thread about Macs and Pro users, when the subject is about releases in the near future?

    Wtf are you talking about?
    It's irrelevant because pros also use MBPs and iMacs.
    I don't see why that makes it irrelevant.

    I thinkTC's comments are a nod to Mac Pro users or potential new Mac Pro users. That some pros use iMacs and MBPs, while true, takes nothing away from Crowley's point.

    Or are you suggesting an iMac Pro is on the way?
  • Reply 113 of 132
    I'm still buying 2009 cMPs and upgrading the hell out of them. And after replacing the CPUs, using m.2 PCIe SSDs for boot and for RAIDs, adding a USB-C card and a new graphics card it's still cheaper than most PCs and much much cheaper than an equivalent nMP, and generally faster than both. Especially with three  of them sharing  CPU loads. 

    Still, its do or die time for Apple as a desktop PC maker for the pro market. I'm running out of tricks. 
  • Reply 114 of 132
    jim wjim w Posts: 75member
    I second the need for a return of Aperture or a truly professional photo application with non-destructive RAW processing and plug-ins that will accept Aperture libraries. I have 100's of thousands of mostly RAW Nikon photos in Aperture since v.1, and the thought of moving to another application is overwhelming. I have bought 4 new Macs in the last two years and will not buy another unless it runs Aperture 3.6 or an equal replacement. Photos is not it. I make my living and create my art with this software. Apple's cavalier attitude to pro photographers is reprehensible.
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 115 of 132
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    avon b7 said:
    nht said:
    It's irrelevant because pros also use MBPs and iMacs.
    I don't see why that makes it irrelevant.

    I thinkTC's comments are a nod to Mac Pro users or potential new Mac Pro users. That some pros use iMacs and MBPs, while true, takes nothing away from Crowley's point.

    Or are you suggesting an iMac Pro is on the way?
    It is irrelevant because Tim did not say that Apple has not abandoned the Mac Pro but that it has not abandoned pro users.

    Allowing the use of external GPUs via dual TB3 ports to an external chassis in MacOS would fit that bill without providing a Mac Pro update.  That would give pros access to the Titan from pretty much any MBP or iMac.

    That's worth a lot more to many pros over a Mac Pro refresh although it seems likely a Mac Pro refresh will eventually happen.
  • Reply 116 of 132
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    crowley said:
    nht said:

    crowley said:

    crowley said:
    Soli said:
    altivec88 said:
    Soli said:
    Personally, I don't care if the Mac Pro is ever updated, but I lean toward updating it or getting rid of it altogether just to shut people up. Clearly the sales aren't high enough to warrant annual updates, so the people bitching about that on here are either in a very small group of Mac Pro buyers are bitching about a product they've never owned.

    I've never once had a product from Apple that had exactly what I wanted, but I weigh the pros and cons and then make a decision based on what will benefit me the most. Apple owes you nothing and you owe them nothing. Buy what suits your needs and leave it at that. If that means not choosing an Apple product then that's how you let Apple know they're not getting your business. It's that fucking simple.
    So let me get this straight.  You don't own or need a MacPro.  You don't care if the Mac Pro ever gets updated but at the same time, those that do need and require them are not allowed to voice their displeasure with out the Soli Internet police coming out and saying "I don't need it updated so therefor it doesn't need updating".  Look sir,  I don't really care about you myopic view of life.   This topic is about Pro's.  If you "don't care" or want to hear pro's bitch about the state of the Mac, I suggest you stay away from those articles and more importantly don't post on a topic you clearly know nothing about and from your own words don't even care about.

    Apple is free to do what ever they want.  If they want to kill the MacPro, then that is their prerogative.  Tim should just say we are going in a different direction and we are not getting enough sales in the pro market to justify our involvement.  End of storey.  Instead, we get continuous pathetic words that say "Desktops are very important to us, they're in our road map" and "Pro's are very important to us" followed by actions that are polar opposite (leading us to 4 year update cycles. products well behind competitors in every way).  I call those lies, you can call them what ever you want.  Then you state that one of those new MacBook Pro's should solve all the pro's problem.  LOL.   Don't get me wrong, the MacBook Pro is an excellent machine but a lot of Pro's need power much greater than what can be had from a Mobile GPU and a few cores of mobile CPU.   Even the current MacPro is a great machine if the year was 2013 and the world sat still.  As I mentioned, both Dell and HP have updated their desktop workstations twice in that time and currently offer 44core systems, with 2017 graphic cards, the latest ram specs, etc. so that is what I have to compare it to.  For the same price as a 12 core mac with ancient graphics, I can get a 36 core Dell with high end Dual Nvidia Quadro's and DDR4 that will make the MacPro look like its 2013 all over again.

    To be clear this whole discussion is not whether Apple should or should not update the MacPro.  Its about Tim spewing his words around as if they mean anything to the pro community.  His words don't make me any money,  a new MacPro will.  So put out or shut up.
    Regardless of your Mac Pro needs—which is questionable based on your comments—you've repeatedly claimed that Tim Cook has no interest in any professional user whereby you called him a liar for saying there are road maps and products in the pipeline because you don't consider anything else a professional-grade product. That makes your entire argument bull-fucking-shit.
    Some people used language that was a bit too spicy for you so you start mouthing off?  Cry me a fucking river; you've made a complete ass of yourself in this thread.
    Nonsense. He's continued to hammer the same point into deaf ears -- the nMP is not the only Pro series product Apple makes. To say that because it hasn't been updated for reasons we know nothing about means Cook is lying to you is simply idiotic. 
    No one said it was the only one.  It is, however, an important one.  And it's been over three years.  

    Cook's rhetoric is consistent, but the actions of Apple of the past years regarding professional customers has been lacking.  Software has been retired (Aperture, Color, Shake), or suffered clumsy releases (FCPX), and hardware has gone without updates (MP), or problematic updates (MBP).  And momentum all round seems to have slowed.

    Soli, in between his lies about me, accused me of distorting the truth by only posting a Mac Pro screenshot from the Buyers Guide.  Let's remedy that...



    Look at that trend.  And Soli implied that the MBP was some kind of counter to the MP example.

    There's a lot of reason to be sceptical about the depth of Apple's sincerity here.  I have no doubt that they have some roadmap for future pro hardware and software (contrary to Soli's lies, I have never claimed otherwise), but the current pace is not something to get excited about, and words are just words.

    I don't see any reason to get tetchy with people who are unhappy about this.  If you don't care about the pro segment then go hang out in other threads, Soli and others getting defensive just seems like the fanboys rallying and not brooking any criticism. 
    The trend is once a year with an extra processor bump from time to time.  Historically 2008 got one model, 2009 two, 2010 one, 2011 two, 2012 two, 2013 two, 2014 one, 2015 one.

    Your implied assertion that MBP development is trending down is incorrect.  There was an extra gap that might have been filled with a spec bump in years past but that is wasn't isn't any indication that we won't see a 2017 MBP.

    The trend is right there.  The numbers are right there.  It may not be a cast iron indication of when the next release will be, statistics should not be conflated with probability, but in the absence of any other evidence than Cook's vague promises it's the best indication we've got.  If you have any other evidence then please share.  Data from 5 years ago is hardly convincing.
    Yeah, the trend is right there.  One update a year.  Sometimes two.

    Are you claiming the "trend" is now 500+ days based on one data point?  
  • Reply 117 of 132
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    crowley said:
    Jesus, I don't think I've ever met anyone so obstinately disingenuous.
    Aww, that’s sweet of you. I knew you could be honest!
  • Reply 118 of 132
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    nht said:
    crowley said:
    nht said:

    crowley said:

    crowley said:
    Soli said:
    altivec88 said:
    Soli said:
    Personally, I don't care if the Mac Pro is ever updated, but I lean toward updating it or getting rid of it altogether just to shut people up. Clearly the sales aren't high enough to warrant annual updates, so the people bitching about that on here are either in a very small group of Mac Pro buyers are bitching about a product they've never owned.

    I've never once had a product from Apple that had exactly what I wanted, but I weigh the pros and cons and then make a decision based on what will benefit me the most. Apple owes you nothing and you owe them nothing. Buy what suits your needs and leave it at that. If that means not choosing an Apple product then that's how you let Apple know they're not getting your business. It's that fucking simple.
    So let me get this straight.  You don't own or need a MacPro.  You don't care if the Mac Pro ever gets updated but at the same time, those that do need and require them are not allowed to voice their displeasure with out the Soli Internet police coming out and saying "I don't need it updated so therefor it doesn't need updating".  Look sir,  I don't really care about you myopic view of life.   This topic is about Pro's.  If you "don't care" or want to hear pro's bitch about the state of the Mac, I suggest you stay away from those articles and more importantly don't post on a topic you clearly know nothing about and from your own words don't even care about.

    Apple is free to do what ever they want.  If they want to kill the MacPro, then that is their prerogative.  Tim should just say we are going in a different direction and we are not getting enough sales in the pro market to justify our involvement.  End of storey.  Instead, we get continuous pathetic words that say "Desktops are very important to us, they're in our road map" and "Pro's are very important to us" followed by actions that are polar opposite (leading us to 4 year update cycles. products well behind competitors in every way).  I call those lies, you can call them what ever you want.  Then you state that one of those new MacBook Pro's should solve all the pro's problem.  LOL.   Don't get me wrong, the MacBook Pro is an excellent machine but a lot of Pro's need power much greater than what can be had from a Mobile GPU and a few cores of mobile CPU.   Even the current MacPro is a great machine if the year was 2013 and the world sat still.  As I mentioned, both Dell and HP have updated their desktop workstations twice in that time and currently offer 44core systems, with 2017 graphic cards, the latest ram specs, etc. so that is what I have to compare it to.  For the same price as a 12 core mac with ancient graphics, I can get a 36 core Dell with high end Dual Nvidia Quadro's and DDR4 that will make the MacPro look like its 2013 all over again.

    To be clear this whole discussion is not whether Apple should or should not update the MacPro.  Its about Tim spewing his words around as if they mean anything to the pro community.  His words don't make me any money,  a new MacPro will.  So put out or shut up.
    Regardless of your Mac Pro needs—which is questionable based on your comments—you've repeatedly claimed that Tim Cook has no interest in any professional user whereby you called him a liar for saying there are road maps and products in the pipeline because you don't consider anything else a professional-grade product. That makes your entire argument bull-fucking-shit.
    Some people used language that was a bit too spicy for you so you start mouthing off?  Cry me a fucking river; you've made a complete ass of yourself in this thread.
    Nonsense. He's continued to hammer the same point into deaf ears -- the nMP is not the only Pro series product Apple makes. To say that because it hasn't been updated for reasons we know nothing about means Cook is lying to you is simply idiotic. 
    No one said it was the only one.  It is, however, an important one.  And it's been over three years.  

    Cook's rhetoric is consistent, but the actions of Apple of the past years regarding professional customers has been lacking.  Software has been retired (Aperture, Color, Shake), or suffered clumsy releases (FCPX), and hardware has gone without updates (MP), or problematic updates (MBP).  And momentum all round seems to have slowed.

    Soli, in between his lies about me, accused me of distorting the truth by only posting a Mac Pro screenshot from the Buyers Guide.  Let's remedy that...



    Look at that trend.  And Soli implied that the MBP was some kind of counter to the MP example.

    There's a lot of reason to be sceptical about the depth of Apple's sincerity here.  I have no doubt that they have some roadmap for future pro hardware and software (contrary to Soli's lies, I have never claimed otherwise), but the current pace is not something to get excited about, and words are just words.

    I don't see any reason to get tetchy with people who are unhappy about this.  If you don't care about the pro segment then go hang out in other threads, Soli and others getting defensive just seems like the fanboys rallying and not brooking any criticism. 
    The trend is once a year with an extra processor bump from time to time.  Historically 2008 got one model, 2009 two, 2010 one, 2011 two, 2012 two, 2013 two, 2014 one, 2015 one.

    Your implied assertion that MBP development is trending down is incorrect.  There was an extra gap that might have been filled with a spec bump in years past but that is wasn't isn't any indication that we won't see a 2017 MBP.

    The trend is right there.  The numbers are right there.  It may not be a cast iron indication of when the next release will be, statistics should not be conflated with probability, but in the absence of any other evidence than Cook's vague promises it's the best indication we've got.  If you have any other evidence then please share.  Data from 5 years ago is hardly convincing.
    Yeah, the trend is right there.  One update a year.  Sometimes two.

    Are you claiming the "trend" is now 500+ days based on one data point?  
    No, I'm saying that the trend in recent years has been for gaps between releases to grow, not shrink.  The 527 days for the MBP is likely an outlier, just like 1000+ days is likely an outlier for the Mac Pro, but it's still indicative that Apple is not in any particular rush to update these machines, and therefore do not see them as a high priority.
  • Reply 119 of 132
    Gilbert RaeGilbert Rae Posts: 2unconfirmed, member
    "creative and pro markets are very important to the company." Lol, yea. Sure. 2012 was the last year I truly believed that. And thats 5 years ago now. Then you killed my 17" MacBook Pro. That pissed me off. It did. I own each of the major iterations in 17" Apple laptop as they are truly amazing machines, especially the 2011 2.3ghz model. The current MacBook air Pros don't feel anywhere near as luxury or nice as my 2011 17" does. You guys then disappointed me with the 2013 Mac Pro. 6 drives in my 2010 Mac Pro was wonderful. Everything in one box nice, tidy and very powerful. My friend's desk with his trashcan MP is a mess of wires and gets beaten in most ways by my hackintosh. I'm especially happy with my Xeon Hackintosh now. Far more flexible than Apples current 'high end' offerings and it has thunderbolt 3. Apple will have to really pull something epic out for me to be tempted to come back to their hardware. However, they've shown their direction with their super thin new MBPs and so I don't expect to be buying a new Mac anytime soon. Okay, Final cut Pro X gets updates, but very little in terms of multi user support (all the nice features are focused on the single user or are gimmicky) and no full on OSX server anymore. Snow Leopard server is getting a bit old here and I'm also one of their niece crowd that would happily buy a new Xserve and rig a ton of drives up to it. Movies need a lot of space and the only thing keeping me fully on Mac OS in the face of such poor pro hardware is FCPX. ...Guess I'll just go have a play on my G4 1.42ghz and remind myself of the good ol' days when Apple really needed editors like me around.
    edited March 2017
  • Reply 120 of 132
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 1,080member
    jim w said:
    I second the need for a return of Aperture or a truly professional photo application with non-destructive RAW processing and plug-ins that will accept Aperture libraries. I have 100's of thousands of mostly RAW Nikon photos in Aperture since v.1, and the thought of moving to another application is overwhelming. I have bought 4 new Macs in the last two years and will not buy another unless it runs Aperture 3.6 or an equal replacement. Photos is not it. I make my living and create my art with this software. Apple's cavalier attitude to pro photographers is reprehensible.
    I'm sure it's been suggested to you before: Lightroom fulfills the requirements you list. I've come back to it after taking some time off and it is quite good. If you want to go with a commercial-grade product, there is Capture 1. Both made by companies who's main product is graphic art tooling.
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