Lengthy iOS 10.3 install time likely due to conversion to new Apple File System

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 60
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,276member
    linkman said:
    How solid is the file encryption? That is so important to me
    If you are wondering about the implementation on iOS, read up on Apple's white paper on it. https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf

    You may also want to search for news articles about how much of a headache breaking into the iPhone has been for law enforcement and government agencies, especially compared with Android.
    Since full disk encryption, it's been tough, and AFPS should add to that. It might even regain some of the performance loss from the encryption layer and possibly even increase battery life since file copies are now effectively instant, as shown in the video above (post #43). In any event, nothing about APFS seems to make the user experience or security worse.
  • Reply 42 of 60
    Soli said:

    4) Any ideas why it wasn't use for macOS? 

    Millions of non-Mac devices -- but a controlled environment... Think about it... It is much easier to update a File System that is invisible to users and developers while only interfaced by Apple's code -- Jailbreakers, be damned!  Couldn't pull that off so easily in an exposed File System system as in macOS!

    edited March 2017
  • Reply 43 of 60
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,768member
    Soli said:

    4) Any ideas why it wasn't use for macOS? 

    Millions of non-Mac devices -- but a controlled environment... Think about it... It is much easier to update a File System that is invisible to users and developers while only interfaced by Apple's code -- Jailbreakers, be damned!  Couldn't pull that off so easily in an exposed File System system as in macOS!

    Very true. 

    But since the iOS user base is several orders of magnitude larger than the MacOS user base, and arguably more important to Apple, I'm still a bit surprised they pulled the trigger here first. 

    Still, judging by the silence, this could be one of the most successful mass upgrades in IT history. 
    Soli
  • Reply 44 of 60
    jd_in_sbjd_in_sb Posts: 1,492member
    Apple needs to rename the "Download and Install" button to instead be "Download Only" because that is all it does. After clicking Download and Install button before I went to bed, expecting a new OS on my phone when I woke up, instead I woke up with a Install Now button (a process that took another 20 minutes). I already gave the iPhone permission to install when I went to bed so why didn't it do it?
    Soli
  • Reply 45 of 60
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 5,152member
    My 128Gb IPhone 6+ is about half full and took about 20 minutes to install 10.3.   It seems to be running fine -- certainly no slower and maybe a tiny bit quicker...
  • Reply 46 of 60
    Rayz2016 said:
    Soli said:

    4) Any ideas why it wasn't use for macOS? 

    Millions of non-Mac devices -- but a controlled environment... Think about it... It is much easier to update a File System that is invisible to users and developers while only interfaced by Apple's code -- Jailbreakers, be damned!  Couldn't pull that off so easily in an exposed File System system as in macOS!

    Very true. 

    But since the iOS user base is several orders of magnitude larger than the MacOS user base, and arguably more important to Apple, I'm still a bit surprised they pulled the trigger here first. 

    Still, judging by the silence, this could be one of the most successful mass upgrades in IT history. 
    Yeah...

    I just reviewed the WWDC2016 video introducing APFS.



    at about 34 min in.

    Several things may contribute to the decision:

    • The iOS version of HFS+ is different from the macOS version -- there are fewer considerations in the iOS upgrade
    • Apple's goal was to do the upgrade from HFS to APFS without moving the data -- the new APFS metadata will be written to the HFS+ free space 
    • support for boot volumes, Time Machine and other macOS capabilities was not then provided
    • many 3rd-party macOS apps need to manipulate the file system at a lower level -- NA in iOS app

    But, I agree, this could be one of the most successful mass upgrades in IT history. 


    Edit: I guess the market agrees:  AAPL just hit its all-time high and has a market cap 3/4 $Trillion plus change
    edited March 2017 GeorgeBMacRayz2016
  • Reply 47 of 60
    Why wasn't APFS on the latest macOS update too?!  *rolls eyes*
  • Reply 48 of 60
    I feel relieved now. I have been approaching 8,9 quintillion files... at slow pace.
  • Reply 49 of 60
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,276member
    Soli said:

    4) Any ideas why it wasn't use for macOS? 

    Millions of non-Mac devices -- but a controlled environment... Think about it... It is much easier to update a File System that is invisible to users and developers while only interfaced by Apple's code -- Jailbreakers, be damned!  Couldn't pull that off so easily in an exposed File System system as in macOS!

    1) It would still be invisible to nearly all Mac users, and anyone that gives a damn about it on macOS would also give a damn on iOS.

    2) My guess is that it had to do with performance. Since every iOS-based uses NAND it's going to be an improvement in performance, and as a result should increase battery life, since a file copy will be nearly instant.
  • Reply 50 of 60
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,276member
    Why wasn't APFS on the latest macOS update too?!  *rolls eyes*
    Clearly Apple is trying to ruin your day. There's simply no other explanation than Tim Cook has a beef with you.
    GeorgeBMacRayz2016
  • Reply 51 of 60
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,276member

    Several things may contribute to the decision:
    • The iOS version of HFS+ is different from the macOS version -- there are fewer considerations in the iOS upgrade
    • Apple's goal was to do the upgrade from HFS to APFS without moving the data -- the new APFS metadata will be written to the HFS+ free space 
    • support for boot volumes, Time Machine and other macOS capabilities was not then provided
    • many 3rd-party macOS apps need to manipulate the file system at a lower level -- NA in iOS app
    Those two things are certainly a potential issue for a file system change. More so the latter, since macOS could easily do a system check to see if the system is setup properly for the conversation from HFS+ to APFS.

    The bottom line is we know Apple has very good reasons for their actions, and usually moves very cautiously, which makes the move to update iOS to APFS across the board a very interesting move on their part. They were clearly very confident it wasn't going to cause any issues.

    PS: I got a new iPhone yesterday so I did the update as soon as it restored, but I would've been interested in see what kind of free space saving the new file system has since it keeps duplicate files at bay.
  • Reply 52 of 60
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,276member
    jd_in_sb said:
    Apple needs to rename the "Download and Install" button to instead be "Download Only" because that is all it does. After clicking Download and Install button before I went to bed, expecting a new OS on my phone when I woke up, instead I woke up with a Install Now button (a process that took another 20 minutes). I already gave the iPhone permission to install when I went to bed so why didn't it do it?
    There are many niggling issues like that, that have existed for a long time.
  • Reply 53 of 60
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 2,492member
    About 20m on my iPhone 7 via OTA.  It is snappier. The launch graphic on twitter is a good example.

  • Reply 54 of 60
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,276member
    The following snippet from the linked article is 5 months old, so perhaps some or all of these issues have been resolved.

    macOS Sierra places a few limitations on the new APFS file system, as it’s still experimental:
    • Mac startup disks can’t be formatted with APFS, so you can’t use this for your Mac’s system drive.
    • APFS file systems are currently case sensitive only, which means that “file” is different from “File”.
    • Time Machine can’t back up to an APFS drive.
    • FileVault can’t encrypt an APFS drive.
    • APFS can’t be used in Fusion Drives, which are Apple’s type of hybrid hard drive that combines an SSD and mechanical drive.
    edited March 2017
  • Reply 55 of 60
    benjerbenjer Posts: 90member
    I noticed that I now have about 2GB more free space on my 6s than before the update. Is that the new file system (more efficient)?
  • Reply 56 of 60
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,276member
    benjer said:
    I noticed that I now have about 2GB more free space on my 6s than before the update. Is that the new file system (more efficient)?
    Yes, but that could be the cache being cleared or OS-level efficiencies with the update.
  • Reply 57 of 60
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,229moderator
    benjer said:
    I noticed that I now have about 2GB more free space on my 6s than before the update. Is that the new file system (more efficient)?
    It depends if you checked after it had downloaded the update. The installer would be around 2GB, this would have replaced the existing OS and then freed up the space taken by the installer. It does have a feature where instead of duplicating a file, it can just reference it on the filesystem. This is something they'd be able to use in future to free up space, so it can run a system-wide scan to see if any files are exact duplicates like music, photos or app libraries and free up the duplicates, leaving one version. Any changes to a duplicate would be written in place.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 58 of 60
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 5,152member
    The upgrade of my IPhone 6 went quickly using ITunes.   My original series Watch took a long time -- I didn't time it, but it seemed to be over an hour.
  • Reply 59 of 60
    benjerbenjer Posts: 90member
    Soli said:
    benjer said:
    I noticed that I now have about 2GB more free space on my 6s than before the update. Is that the new file system (more efficient)?
    Yes, but that could be the cache being cleared or OS-level efficiencies with the update.
    I thought of that, but I've never experienced gaining 2GB before on an update...

    Marvin said:
    benjer said:
    I noticed that I now have about 2GB more free space on my 6s than before the update. Is that the new file system (more efficient)?
    It depends if you checked after it had downloaded the update. The installer would be around 2GB, this would have replaced the existing OS and then freed up the space taken by the installer. It does have a feature where instead of duplicating a file, it can just reference it on the filesystem. This is something they'd be able to use in future to free up space, so it can run a system-wide scan to see if any files are exact duplicates like music, photos or app libraries and free up the duplicates, leaving one version. Any changes to a duplicate would be written in place.
    I have a 16GB phone, so I check the space pretty often, and it's been a long time since I've had more than 1GB free, and I'm pretty sure I was about out of space before yesterday. It will be interesting to learn more about how the new filesystem...
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