Apple's Mac mini an 'important product,' staying in lineup

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 56
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,621member
    Are you one of the single-digit percentage of Mac customers who actually own a Mac Pro? If not, why complain?
    I’m a Mac Pro owner and I’ll gladly help complain about the Mac Mini. I couldn’t tell you how many people I’ve helped enjoy Macs for the first time thanks to the Mini, but the damn thing needs an update, even for casual users.
    I'm not talking about Mini whining, I'm talking about Pro whining from the legions of people who don't have a Pro, aren't in the market for a Pro, and will never have a Pro. yet feel personally victimized by Apple. it's a form of insanity. 

    Apple's data confirms what we thought -- Pro sales are absurdly small, and most pro users use other machines, because few people need the actual added power. Software development appears to be the top pro use case, and it can be done very well on MBPs and iMacs. 
    edited April 2017 tallest skilwatto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 56
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,621member
    this is also a good article about the mac conversation at apple, some great insight and quotes:

    https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/04/apple-pushes-the-reset-button-on-the-mac-pro/
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 56
    djames4242djames4242 Posts: 528member
    StrangeDays said:

    So did you actually read all the background info, like the Daring Fireball article? There is no flood of Pro users fleeing for Windows -- the Pro has terrible sales numbers. More, Apple said most of the pro application uses use MacBooks and iMacs, which will never go away even if the Pro does. This is because modern machines are very, very capable. They do what you used to need a workstation for, but now don't. Thus the software isn't going anywhere. 
    Good point. I admit that I did not read through the Daring Fireball article. I was basing my assumptions by hearing folks out in the field complain about the lack of updates by people who do need the sort of power a Pro machine could offer. Folks such as Alex Lindsay who runs a production shop needing to regularly crunch a load of 4k video and who has moved much of his work to Windows because they can't get the raw power they need from Apple. Certainly his shop isn't the only one. With the death of the old Final Cut Pro, many editing firms have reportedly moved to Windows since they were forced to move production onto Premiere Pro and no longer needed to use Apple hardware. As for low sales, I strongly suspect the Mac Pro would have sold more had it been a true Pro machine - user upgradable GPUs and CPUs, actual on-board storage, and so on much as the old cheese grater Macs of the previous generation.

    Us consumers can bitch and moan (and many of us do) about consumer-level hardware (Minis, iMacs, MacBooks) no longer being serviceable and Apple will ignore us because most consumers are too afraid to open their machines and tinker. Pros, on the other hand, are more likely to want to keep their $6000 machines current and don't give a crap if it looks like a mini trash can with glowing port identifiers or if its fan is completely silent.
  • Reply 44 of 56
    CelTanCelTan Posts: 43member
    stompy said:
    It would be a big improvement as a server. If you're using it as a desktop with a (powered) USB-C display, a nicer setup there as well. 
    Happy to have a second Power USB-C if it means that I can get a £300 monitor for it - it does not need to be 4k for kids / education.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 56
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,493member
    daven said:
    Interesting concept. I just read a Forbes article comparing the iPhone 7 to Galaxy 8. In it they said that a Galaxy 8 can be attached to an external monitor and keyboard and function as an Android desktop. Withe the processing power of current chips it would be an interesting concept to make an iPhone/iPad function that way. Give Xcode the functionality where you can design apps where the GUI can switch between iOS for an iOS device or iOS for desktop use. Granted much of a program's development effort is in the GUI so I'm not sure how much effort it would save but from a home user perspective, having all your work with you is an interesting concept especially if you do a lot of it wirelessly.
    Yes, that would be/Will Be very interesting...

    But, that doesn't change much for the MacMini:  the IPhone is restricted by being mobile and being able to fit into a pocket.   The Mini can hold far more power than an IPhone since it, in reality, has no restrictions placed on it.   Well, it is called "mini", so it can't be a tower but, other than that...  There's no reason why it couldn't blow the doors off of a fully configured MBP -- or use lower end components and remain at a low price.

    The MacMini has more potential than any other product Apple makes... 
    ... I hope Apple chooses well for the MacMini because it's essentially a blank sheet of paper for them and can take innumerable forms and functions....

    But, one thing that I sincerely hope Apple does with it:   return it to an upgradeable status.   Have a cute, sealed little white box is cute, but it doesn't serve the needs of the user community well.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 46 of 56
    macguimacgui Posts: 1,260member
    The mini was only ever meant to be a bridge to the Mac OS ecosystem, nothing more. Yet so many people who just don't get that think there's a snowball's chance in hell that they'll get a mini Pro. As if.

    There is no incentive for Apple to make a fully tricked-out mini or even return to a formerly upgradeable version. NONE. The mini is probably a single-digit sales item, just a higher single-digit than the Mac Pro.

    People are over estimating the importance and place of the mini in Apple's road map. And every whiner thinks there's millions of people who want exactly what they want. Not coincidentally, those people are completely incapable of running a company like Apple. Why? Because they don't know shit.

    I have two minis and they're my main Macs, one being a 2012 quad-core. They're not underrated because they are underpowered. I'd love to see Apple give them a decent, discrete GPU. That might happen. But user upgradeable RAM? Those days are over. I'll be happy if Apple gives us one that can drive at least one, preferably two 27-30" 5K monitors at 60Hz. But that will probably take a new Mac Pro.

    It's ok to want what you want. Just don't be stupid enough to think that any company, not just Apple, owes you your special something, assuming it's not already to late for that.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 56
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,493member
    macgui said:
    The mini was only ever meant to be a bridge to the Mac OS ecosystem, nothing more. Yet so many people who just don't get that think there's a snowball's chance in hell that they'll get a mini Pro. As if.

    There is no incentive for Apple to make a fully tricked-out mini or even return to a formerly upgradeable version. NONE. The mini is probably a single-digit sales item, just a higher single-digit than the Mac Pro.

    People are over estimating the importance and place of the mini in Apple's road map. And every whiner thinks there's millions of people who want exactly what they want. Not coincidentally, those people are completely incapable of running a company like Apple. Why? Because they don't know shit.

    I have two minis and they're my main Macs, one being a 2012 quad-core. They're not underrated because they are underpowered. I'd love to see Apple give them a decent, discrete GPU. That might happen. But user upgradeable RAM? Those days are over. I'll be happy if Apple gives us one that can drive at least one, preferably two 27-30" 5K monitors at 60Hz. But that will probably take a new Mac Pro.

    It's ok to want what you want. Just don't be stupid enough to think that any company, not just Apple, owes you your special something, assuming it's not already to late for that.
    ?
    Those are big assumptions on your part...
    The mini can be pretty much anything Apple wants it to be except:  portable or an all-in-one or a -Pro.   But that leaves an enormous amount of territory to cover in between those extremes...   Essentially it is 80-90% of the desktop market.  As long as Apple wants to remain in the desktop market, the mini has FAR more potential to 'make people's live better' than any other product in its class.  The question is:  How much does Apple want to remain on the fringes vs how mainstream does it want to go?

    As for non-upgradeable RAM, you're probably correct in the mobile market (at least Apple's mobile market) -- but the desktop is a different world with different needs and constraints.  Actually, for the desktop class, Apple is talking about goin to modular designs -- with suggests the opposite of one-piece throw-away designs like you get in an Apple Watch.
  • Reply 48 of 56
    macguimacgui Posts: 1,260member
    macgui said:
    The mini was only ever meant to be a bridge to the Mac OS ecosystem, nothing more. Yet so many people who just don't get that think there's a snowball's chance in hell that they'll get a mini Pro. As if.

    There is no incentive for Apple to make a fully tricked-out mini or even return to a formerly upgradeable version. NONE. The mini is probably a single-digit sales item, just a higher single-digit than the Mac Pro.

    People are over estimating the importance and place of the mini in Apple's road map. And every whiner thinks there's millions of people who want exactly what they want. Not coincidentally, those people are completely incapable of running a company like Apple. Why? Because they don't know shit.

    I have two minis and they're my main Macs, one being a 2012 quad-core. They're not underrated because they are underpowered. I'd love to see Apple give them a decent, discrete GPU. That might happen. But user upgradeable RAM? Those days are over. I'll be happy if Apple gives us one that can drive at least one, preferably two 27-30" 5K monitors at 60Hz. But that will probably take a new Mac Pro.

    It's ok to want what you want. Just don't be stupid enough to think that any company, not just Apple, owes you your special something, assuming it's not already to late for that.
    ?
    Those are big assumptions on your part...
    The mini can be pretty much anything Apple wants it to be except:  portable or an all-in-one or a -Pro.   But that leaves an enormous amount of territory to cover in between those extremes...   Essentially it is 80-90% of the desktop market.  As long as Apple wants to remain in the desktop market, the mini has FAR more potential to 'make people's live better' than any other product in its class.  The question is:  How much does Apple want to remain on the fringes vs how mainstream does it want to go?

    As for non-upgradeable RAM, you're probably correct in the mobile market (at least Apple's mobile market) -- but the desktop is a different world with different needs and constraints.  Actually, for the desktop class, Apple is talking about goin to modular designs -- with suggests the opposite of one-piece throw-away designs like you get in an Apple Watch.
    98% of the responses written here are big assumptions. Mine are supported by Apple's actions. What the mini could be is obviously irrelevant when compare to what Apple has been doing with it. The latest entry level mini is yet another harbinger of Apple's roadmap.

    And I am correct regarding upgradeable RAM for the mini market. Have you been paying any attention to Apple's offerings? The only Macs that offer user upgradeable RAM are the 27" iMacs and Mac Pros. Apple used to offer MacBooks, 21" iMacs, and minis that allowed the user to DIY RAM upgrades. How many do they offer now?

    The modular design you reference is Apple talking about a new Mac Pro, a single-digit sales percentage machine, not a return to upgradable Macs. Nothing about that remotely implies or suggests that the mini will benefit. Nothing. They made no mention of lines of products having a similar modularity. That's your assumption/inference. And it's a much bigger leap than mine.

    You can believe what you want based on— what, exactly? Sure it could happen. When pigs fly, you can tell me 'I told you so'. Until then, don't hold your breath.


    stompywatto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 56
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    macgui said:
    The mini was only ever meant to be a bridge to the Mac OS ecosystem, nothing more. Yet so many people who just don't get that think there's a snowball's chance in hell that they'll get a mini Pro. As if.
    They might repurpose the cylinder Mac Pro case into a "mini pro" (or "headless iMac"/xMac, as it were). The new Mac Pro obviously won't be able to use the same case, but I'm sure millions of dollars of R&D went into its design. Why not get their money's worth for it? 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 56
    davendaven Posts: 526member
    daven said:
    Interesting concept. I just read a Forbes article comparing the iPhone 7 to Galaxy 8. In it they said that a Galaxy 8 can be attached to an external monitor and keyboard and function as an Android desktop. Withe the processing power of current chips it would be an interesting concept to make an iPhone/iPad function that way. Give Xcode the functionality where you can design apps where the GUI can switch between iOS for an iOS device or iOS for desktop use. Granted much of a program's development effort is in the GUI so I'm not sure how much effort it would save but from a home user perspective, having all your work with you is an interesting concept especially if you do a lot of it wirelessly.
    Yes, that would be/Will Be very interesting...

    But, that doesn't change much for the MacMini:  the IPhone is restricted by being mobile and being able to fit into a pocket.   The Mini can hold far more power than an IPhone since it, in reality, has no restrictions placed on it.   Well, it is called "mini", so it can't be a tower but, other than that...  There's no reason why it couldn't blow the doors off of a fully configured MBP -- or use lower end components and remain at a low price.

    The MacMini has more potential than any other product Apple makes... 
    ... I hope Apple chooses well for the MacMini because it's essentially a blank sheet of paper for them and can take innumerable forms and functions....

    But, one thing that I sincerely hope Apple does with it:   return it to an upgradeable status.   Have a cute, sealed little white box is cute, but it doesn't serve the needs of the user community well.
    I waited for the last Mini iteration to come out before buying two refurbished 2012s. I upgraded them to have the max ram and an SSD so they are quite nimble in most areas except they lack in graphics. I am a tinkerer and love the concept of a small, upgradable, hot rod. I don't need the latest and greatest but I do want something that will last years.

    It may be that Apple has finally come to the realization that technology has stabilized to a large extent and that it may be advantageous to split their products between upgradable desktops and non-upgradable portable units. Making an iMac two percent thinner at an increased production cost and lowered performance just to make it thinner is not what 99% of the market is looking for. Like you, I want Apple to give me a mini Mac that I can tinker with. My guess is CPU performance has plateaued for some time but having a discrete, and possible swappable mini-video system and upgradable ram and storage is something I would like a crack at.

    Anyway, I digress, a pluggable iPhone/iPad with desktop like functionality for the user who just needs something for lightweight work and a tinker able mini for us gear heads. Tough that may be two many options and dilute the brand. Given the choice of one or the other, I too would go for the tinker able mini Mac.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 51 of 56
    felix01felix01 Posts: 242member
    If these Apple product lines like the Mini and the Mac Pro are so "important," how come it's been years since either has been mentioned in a Tim Cook keynote?

    Merely Apple spin not backed up with tangible action.
  • Reply 52 of 56
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,493member
    macgui said:
    macgui said:
    The mini was only ever meant to be a bridge to the Mac OS ecosystem, nothing more. Yet so many people who just don't get that think there's a snowball's chance in hell that they'll get a mini Pro. As if.

    There is no incentive for Apple to make a fully tricked-out mini or even return to a formerly upgradeable version. NONE. The mini is probably a single-digit sales item, just a higher single-digit than the Mac Pro.

    People are over estimating the importance and place of the mini in Apple's road map. And every whiner thinks there's millions of people who want exactly what they want. Not coincidentally, those people are completely incapable of running a company like Apple. Why? Because they don't know shit.

    I have two minis and they're my main Macs, one being a 2012 quad-core. They're not underrated because they are underpowered. I'd love to see Apple give them a decent, discrete GPU. That might happen. But user upgradeable RAM? Those days are over. I'll be happy if Apple gives us one that can drive at least one, preferably two 27-30" 5K monitors at 60Hz. But that will probably take a new Mac Pro.

    It's ok to want what you want. Just don't be stupid enough to think that any company, not just Apple, owes you your special something, assuming it's not already to late for that.
    ?
    Those are big assumptions on your part...
    The mini can be pretty much anything Apple wants it to be except:  portable or an all-in-one or a -Pro.   But that leaves an enormous amount of territory to cover in between those extremes...   Essentially it is 80-90% of the desktop market.  As long as Apple wants to remain in the desktop market, the mini has FAR more potential to 'make people's live better' than any other product in its class.  The question is:  How much does Apple want to remain on the fringes vs how mainstream does it want to go?

    As for non-upgradeable RAM, you're probably correct in the mobile market (at least Apple's mobile market) -- but the desktop is a different world with different needs and constraints.  Actually, for the desktop class, Apple is talking about goin to modular designs -- with suggests the opposite of one-piece throw-away designs like you get in an Apple Watch.
    98% of the responses written here are big assumptions. Mine are supported by Apple's actions. What the mini could be is obviously irrelevant when compare to what Apple has been doing with it. The latest entry level mini is yet another harbinger of Apple's roadmap.

    And I am correct regarding upgradeable RAM for the mini market. Have you been paying any attention to Apple's offerings? The only Macs that offer user upgradeable RAM are the 27" iMacs and Mac Pros. Apple used to offer MacBooks, 21" iMacs, and minis that allowed the user to DIY RAM upgrades. How many do they offer now?

    The modular design you reference is Apple talking about a new Mac Pro, a single-digit sales percentage machine, not a return to upgradable Macs. Nothing about that remotely implies or suggests that the mini will benefit. Nothing. They made no mention of lines of products having a similar modularity. That's your assumption/inference. And it's a much bigger leap than mine.

    You can believe what you want based on— what, exactly? Sure it could happen. When pigs fly, you can tell me 'I told you so'. Until then, don't hold your breath.


    You can rest assured that your assumptions will always be correct because, when Apple chooses a different route, you will modify your assumptions and say "I told you so!".   It's a common failing of those who base their beliefs on ideology rather than reality.
  • Reply 53 of 56
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,493member
    daven said:
    daven said:
    Interesting concept. I just read a Forbes article comparing the iPhone 7 to Galaxy 8. In it they said that a Galaxy 8 can be attached to an external monitor and keyboard and function as an Android desktop. Withe the processing power of current chips it would be an interesting concept to make an iPhone/iPad function that way. Give Xcode the functionality where you can design apps where the GUI can switch between iOS for an iOS device or iOS for desktop use. Granted much of a program's development effort is in the GUI so I'm not sure how much effort it would save but from a home user perspective, having all your work with you is an interesting concept especially if you do a lot of it wirelessly.
    Yes, that would be/Will Be very interesting...

    But, that doesn't change much for the MacMini:  the IPhone is restricted by being mobile and being able to fit into a pocket.   The Mini can hold far more power than an IPhone since it, in reality, has no restrictions placed on it.   Well, it is called "mini", so it can't be a tower but, other than that...  There's no reason why it couldn't blow the doors off of a fully configured MBP -- or use lower end components and remain at a low price.

    The MacMini has more potential than any other product Apple makes... 
    ... I hope Apple chooses well for the MacMini because it's essentially a blank sheet of paper for them and can take innumerable forms and functions....

    But, one thing that I sincerely hope Apple does with it:   return it to an upgradeable status.   Have a cute, sealed little white box is cute, but it doesn't serve the needs of the user community well.
    I waited for the last Mini iteration to come out before buying two refurbished 2012s. I upgraded them to have the max ram and an SSD so they are quite nimble in most areas except they lack in graphics. I am a tinkerer and love the concept of a small, upgradable, hot rod. I don't need the latest and greatest but I do want something that will last years.

    It may be that Apple has finally come to the realization that technology has stabilized to a large extent and that it may be advantageous to split their products between upgradable desktops and non-upgradable portable units. Making an iMac two percent thinner at an increased production cost and lowered performance just to make it thinner is not what 99% of the market is looking for. Like you, I want Apple to give me a mini Mac that I can tinker with. My guess is CPU performance has plateaued for some time but having a discrete, and possible swappable mini-video system and upgradable ram and storage is something I would like a crack at.

    Anyway, I digress, a pluggable iPhone/iPad with desktop like functionality for the user who just needs something for lightweight work and a tinker able mini for us gear heads. Tough that may be two many options and dilute the brand. Given the choice of one or the other, I too would go for the tinker able mini Mac.
    Well said!
    While I too am a tinkerer, I don't do it because I like to tinker.  Rather, I despise throwing out a functional product simply because a single, often minor component. has failed or become obsolete.

    As for "diluting the brand", that is the pervue of the Apple ideologues.   Which is kind of weird since Apple as survived and thrived doing quite the opposite:   finding and developing technological products (both hard and soft) that make people's lives better -- regardless of the consequences.
    ... Worrying about "diluting the brand" is for lesser organizations...
  • Reply 54 of 56
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,603member
    this is also a good article about the mac conversation at apple, some great insight and quotes:

    https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/04/apple-pushes-the-reset-button-on-the-mac-pro/
    Thanks for linking that. Well worth reading. 

    Interesting that they're looking at using an iPad as drawing tablet for Macs. 

    I'm wondering if IBM has something to do with this. They recently started replacing their desktops with Macs. Maybe they were concerned about Apple's focus. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 56
    I love my 2010 Mini, though it is getting regrettably long in the tooth.  For me, I plan to upgrade the RAM to 8gb and use it as a dedicated media server.  Would love to get another one if a future model has a discrete GPU onboard.

    I upgraded from the 2010 Mac Mini to the 2014 Mac Mini as soon as it came out.  People complained about not having four cores anymore, but it was three times faster than the 2010 model and had a better graphics card.

    The 2010 model could play 1080p mp4 files with no problem, but could not play 1080p mkv video files.  The 2014 model can run these mkv files like a hot knife through butter.  Lightroom is also noticeably faster.

    I have the model with a 3GHz Core i7, 16 GB or RAM, and a 250 GB SSD.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 56 of 56
    its still more quicker than my windows desktop lol!
    GeorgeBMacwatto_cobra
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