Outside the United States there are huge populations, think China,
and what about Europe? It is a larger market by population than the USA and with 1st world incomes yet Android is apparently wiping the floor with Apple phones. Some {trolls} are saying that Apple's market percentage is less than 10%. I don't believe it but there is a lot of data out there that might or might not be true. At the moment, (in the UK at least) all the promo's are for the S8. TV and billboard advertising is all Samsung. Apple is nowhere to be seen. Out of interest, I went into one UK mobile network today and asked about a contract with an iPhone 7. The sales team almost fell about laughing. IT was the S8/S8+ or the Galaxy A or a one year old Sony. That was all the devices they were offering on a two year contract! As much as we might like/love Apple there is a huge world out there that don't even consider an iDevice when choosing their next phone. Yes, Apple makes 90% of the smartphone profits but how long can it last? Will people actually pay more than $1000 for a phone (or £1300 in vat in the UK and 1200+ Euros)? Seriously? Apple had better be careful or what little market share they have this side of the Pond will go down the drain.
I have no idea where you are getting your stats from.
10% market share in Western Europe is total bull sheet
iPhone had 21% market share in Germany 48% market share in Great Britian 25% share in France 46% in Australia 54% in Japan
The lagers are Spain and Italy which are about 15%, but its understandable since their economy has been total CRAP for the last 5 years.
So I have no idea where you shop for phones but Apple is doing GREAT in Europe. The salesmen were probably laughing because they get more bonus for selling Android phones. Apple does not give rich incentives to sell phones.
The shop you went to was probably a piece of crap shop thats not even an Apple distributor. They probably have terrible credit and Apple does not do business with them. Any decent phone shop in Western Europe will have iPhones for sale
There's plenty of muddy numbers available from any number of sources to support anyone's market share claims.
So iPhone share is either growing or decreasing, and either giving up some to Android or stealing the highest number of switchers from them in all history. Android is either dying or iOS is stagnating. Pick any of the above and there's numbers to support you.
I'm simply refuting his claim that Apple's share in Western Europe is 10%. There isn't a single data point that has iOS at that low of a share.
Apple has a healthy 25-30% share in GB, France, and Germany combined. China is lower at 20%. But that will explode up with the iPhoneX. China is down because last year the stock market/currency/economy was in chaos. Its recovering nicely now. Plus China loves new form factors, they will eat the X up. iPhone is strong in Australia, Canada, and the USA.
My main point is Apple has nothing to worry about regarding market share. Their install base is bigger than ever. And probably is close to 40% in the USA/Japan/GB/France/Germany/Australia combined. Don't forget iPhones last much longer than Androids. So even if Android has 80% market share, their user base is closer to 65%
I wasn't referring to you specifically Sog. It's just an "at-large" comment with all the numbers being bandied about to prove this or that person's position.
Er, but you replied to Sog and he was being very specific with his numbers. Nobody mentioned muddy waters except you. FUD?
You're having a bad day I presume? You seem a bit edgy and combative and decided you'd make me your cible du jour? Sog was not the only one quoting numbers as you could easily see. What do you think prompted his?
1) Not according to app devs I know -- iOS first, Android maybe. Why? Because iOS is where the paying customers are.
2) legacy MacOS never had a significant market share that i'm aware of. What numbers and when?
3) What 10% minority market share are you referring to?
1) I can't think of a lot of applications that are "maybes" on Android anymore. iOS used to be where all the paying customers were, but it's not the case anymore. A recent article placed iOS at around the same as all other Android markets together. Besides, it's not necessarily a matter of making money with the app, but having a presence on a large market segment. 2) I guess it never did if you consider 12% in 1993 non significant. The market share in some countries like France was significantly higher (around 25%, but I can't find a source). Lots of good info here: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-apple-really-lost-its-lead-in-the-80s-2012-12 3) I'm just saying that high margins and high profitability are meaningless when you can't achieve volume and guarantee profits for developers.
Look, I have lots of Apple stock and I'm rooting for their success, I'm only saying I don't like seeing Android gaining in market share. Yes, it doesn't tell the whole story, because a lot of the devices are crap and don't really get used. But little by little, they're making inroads. I don't want Apple to ignore that and one day find themselves confronting a critical mass and lose developers. I never said it was happening right now, of course. Just that under the inane Sculley "leadership" they allowed overconfidence in high margin, high-quality low-volume luxury products to lead them to the brink of bankruptcy.
Yes, Apple makes 90% of the smartphone profits but how long can it last? Will people actually pay more than $1000 for a phone (or £1300 in vat in the UK and 1200+ Euros)? Seriously?
How long can it last? Indefinitely. If I'm making all the money it's Samsung that has to worry. Shareholders can't spend market share.
The numbers are misleading. It counts every company that makes a loss on smart phones and takes that away from every company that makes a profit. So Apple can make 90% of the profit and Samsung can make e.g. 40% (just a guess, perhaps too high) as long as some other manufacturers make -30%. It also ignores, as far as I can tell, that possibly Samsung books a lot of its profit in the component division, i.e. it sells displays to its handset division at market prices rather than at cost. So even if the handset division doesn't appear to make a profit, every Galaxy sold adds to the bottom line of the component division
Outside the United States there are huge populations, think China,
and what about Europe? It is a larger market by population than the USA and with 1st world incomes yet Android is apparently wiping the floor with Apple phones. Some {trolls} are saying that Apple's market percentage is less than 10%. I don't believe it but there is a lot of data out there that might or might not be true. At the moment, (in the UK at least) all the promo's are for the S8. TV and billboard advertising is all Samsung. Apple is nowhere to be seen. Out of interest, I went into one UK mobile network today and asked about a contract with an iPhone 7. The sales team almost fell about laughing. IT was the S8/S8+ or the Galaxy A or a one year old Sony. That was all the devices they were offering on a two year contract! As much as we might like/love Apple there is a huge world out there that don't even consider an iDevice when choosing their next phone. Yes, Apple makes 90% of the smartphone profits but how long can it last? Will people actually pay more than $1000 for a phone (or £1300 in vat in the UK and 1200+ Euros)? Seriously? Apple had better be careful or what little market share they have this side of the Pond will go down the drain.
I have no idea where you are getting your stats from.
10% market share in Western Europe is total bull sheet
iPhone had 21% market share in Germany 48% market share in Great Britian 25% share in France 46% in Australia 54% in Japan
The lagers are Spain and Italy which are about 15%, but its understandable since their economy has been total CRAP for the last 5 years.
So I have no idea where you shop for phones but Apple is doing GREAT in Europe. The salesmen were probably laughing because they get more bonus for selling Android phones. Apple does not give rich incentives to sell phones.
The shop you went to was probably a piece of crap shop thats not even an Apple distributor. They probably have terrible credit and Apple does not do business with them. Any decent phone shop in Western Europe will have iPhones for sale
There's plenty of muddy numbers available from any number of sources to support anyone's market share claims.
So iPhone share is either growing or decreasing, and either giving up some to Android or stealing the highest number of switchers from them in all history. Android is either dying or iOS is stagnating. Pick any of the above and there's numbers to support you.
I'm simply refuting his claim that Apple's share in Western Europe is 10%. There isn't a single data point that has iOS at that low of a share.
Apple has a healthy 25-30% share in GB, France, and Germany combined. China is lower at 20%. But that will explode up with the iPhoneX. China is down because last year the stock market/currency/economy was in chaos. Its recovering nicely now. Plus China loves new form factors, they will eat the X up. iPhone is strong in Australia, Canada, and the USA.
My main point is Apple has nothing to worry about regarding market share. Their install base is bigger than ever. And probably is close to 40% in the USA/Japan/GB/France/Germany/Australia combined. Don't forget iPhones last much longer than Androids. So even if Android has 80% market share, their user base is closer to 65%
I wasn't referring to you specifically Sog. It's just an "at-large" comment with all the numbers being bandied about to prove this or that person's position.
Er, but you replied to Sog and he was being very specific with his numbers. Nobody mentioned muddy waters except you. FUD?
You're having a bad day I presume? You seem a bit edgy and combative and decided you'd make me your cible du jour? Sog was not the only one quoting numbers as you could easily see. What do you think prompted his?
Nope not at all. I just see you muddying waters when Sog's numbers were very specific and he's the guy you replied to. It's disingenuous to claim numbers can mean anything when he was quite specific. Thus, FUD.
But nice attempt to make it about me personally. Smooth ad hominem.
Outside the United States there are huge populations, think China,
and what about Europe? It is a larger market by population than the USA and with 1st world incomes yet Android is apparently wiping the floor with Apple phones. Some {trolls} are saying that Apple's market percentage is less than 10%. I don't believe it but there is a lot of data out there that might or might not be true. At the moment, (in the UK at least) all the promo's are for the S8. TV and billboard advertising is all Samsung. Apple is nowhere to be seen. Out of interest, I went into one UK mobile network today and asked about a contract with an iPhone 7. The sales team almost fell about laughing. IT was the S8/S8+ or the Galaxy A or a one year old Sony. That was all the devices they were offering on a two year contract! As much as we might like/love Apple there is a huge world out there that don't even consider an iDevice when choosing their next phone. Yes, Apple makes 90% of the smartphone profits but how long can it last? Will people actually pay more than $1000 for a phone (or £1300 in vat in the UK and 1200+ Euros)? Seriously? Apple had better be careful or what little market share they have this side of the Pond will go down the drain.
I have no idea where you are getting your stats from.
10% market share in Western Europe is total bull sheet
iPhone had 21% market share in Germany 48% market share in Great Britian 25% share in France 46% in Australia 54% in Japan
The lagers are Spain and Italy which are about 15%, but its understandable since their economy has been total CRAP for the last 5 years.
So I have no idea where you shop for phones but Apple is doing GREAT in Europe. The salesmen were probably laughing because they get more bonus for selling Android phones. Apple does not give rich incentives to sell phones.
The shop you went to was probably a piece of crap shop thats not even an Apple distributor. They probably have terrible credit and Apple does not do business with them. Any decent phone shop in Western Europe will have iPhones for sale
There's plenty of muddy numbers available from any number of sources to support anyone's market share claims.
So iPhone share is either growing or decreasing, and either giving up some to Android or stealing the highest number of switchers from them in all history. Android is either dying or iOS is stagnating. Pick any of the above and there's numbers to support you.
I'm simply refuting his claim that Apple's share in Western Europe is 10%. There isn't a single data point that has iOS at that low of a share.
Apple has a healthy 25-30% share in GB, France, and Germany combined. China is lower at 20%. But that will explode up with the iPhoneX. China is down because last year the stock market/currency/economy was in chaos. Its recovering nicely now. Plus China loves new form factors, they will eat the X up. iPhone is strong in Australia, Canada, and the USA.
My main point is Apple has nothing to worry about regarding market share. Their install base is bigger than ever. And probably is close to 40% in the USA/Japan/GB/France/Germany/Australia combined. Don't forget iPhones last much longer than Androids. So even if Android has 80% market share, their user base is closer to 65%
I wasn't referring to you specifically Sog. It's just an "at-large" comment with all the numbers being bandied about to prove this or that person's position.
Er, but you replied to Sog and he was being very specific with his numbers. Nobody mentioned muddy waters except you. FUD?
You're having a bad day I presume? You seem a bit edgy and combative and decided you'd make me your cible du jour? Sog was not the only one quoting numbers as you could easily see. What do you think prompted his?
Nope not at all. I just see you muddying waters when Sog's numbers were very specific and he's the guy you replied to. It's disingenuous to claim numbers can mean anything when he was quite specific. Thus, FUD.
But nice attempt to make it about me personally. Smooth ad hominem.
Gotcha. The numbers Sog mentioned (not Sog's numbers of course), and not the only ones mentioned in this thread wherever they came from and however they were derived, must be the only ones that could be true. It matters not what anyone else has said whether Apple friend, foe or neutral, or what any other source reports. I had no idea there was any analyst/analytic company with unassailable and unquestionable statistics on market share and/or unit sales, or that they were unchanging from quarter to quarter. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. You are of course correct that any other share numbers that don't perfectly match those quoted by Sog must be FUD just as you claim. My bad.
Just point us all in the direction of that unquestionably correct source you have so we can ignore all others. It would save so much time in reading and discussion.
1) Not according to app devs I know -- iOS first, Android maybe. Why? Because iOS is where the paying customers are.
2) legacy MacOS never had a significant market share that i'm aware of. What numbers and when?
3) What 10% minority market share are you referring to?
1) I can't think of a lot of applications that are "maybes" on Android anymore. iOS used to be where all the paying customers were, but it's not the case anymore. A recent article placed iOS at around the same as all other Android markets together. Besides, it's not necessarily a matter of making money with the app, but having a presence on a large market segment. 2) I guess it never did if you consider 12% in 1993 non significant. The market share in some countries like France was significantly higher (around 25%, but I can't find a source). Lots of good info here: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-apple-really-lost-its-lead-in-the-80s-2012-12 3) I'm just saying that high margins and high profitability are meaningless when you can't achieve volume and guarantee profits for developers.
Look, I have lots of Apple stock and I'm rooting for their success, I'm only saying I don't like seeing Android gaining in market share. Yes, it doesn't tell the whole story, because a lot of the devices are crap and don't really get used. But little by little, they're making inroads. I don't want Apple to ignore that and one day find themselves confronting a critical mass and lose developers. I never said it was happening right now, of course. Just that under the inane Sculley "leadership" they allowed overconfidence in high margin, high-quality low-volume luxury products to lead them to the brink of bankruptcy.
1) I know for a fact apps are still "Maybe" on Android. I know other devs who build iOS apps despite being Android users personally because that's where the more viable market is. Anecdote but I'm beta testing one right now (Stacked app).
2) Can you site your claim that Mac had 12% market share in 1993? PCMag has it at almost half that (6.7%) in 1993:
...the narrative that Mac OS had the market share lead and then lost it is not accurate, IMO. Apple ][ perhaps in the late '70s and early '80s, but not Mac OS in the '90s. While being a better OS in my opinion, Mac was plagued with a high price and other problems that prevented it from getting widespread numbers. Until now -- Mac is more popular today than it has ever been. Thus I don't follow your point.
3) Margins and profit are meaningless!? What sort of bizarro-speak is this!? Profit is the very air corporations breathe! Market share without profit is meaningless! That's why there are a billion individual Android phone makers but none of them make any money and their models evaporate into obscurity soon after launch. Even flagship models don't get updated often if ever! Meanwhile, iOS devices have *the longest* useful life span. And web data shows they're the leading devices for holiday shopping, etc. It's iOS first, without a doubt.
Apple commands the high end of the market, in the same was a brand like BMW or Mercedes. They don't care that low-end brands exist. Why should they? They make their profit where they make their profit. And Apple scoops up the vast majority of the profit in smartphones.
I have a hard time believing you have "lots of stock" if you care about market share over profit on your investment. But if true, sell now, you don't understand how Apple operates and will only be disappointed.
Comments
2) I guess it never did if you consider 12% in 1993 non significant. The market share in some countries like France was significantly higher (around 25%, but I can't find a source). Lots of good info here: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-apple-really-lost-its-lead-in-the-80s-2012-12
3) I'm just saying that high margins and high profitability are meaningless when you can't achieve volume and guarantee profits for developers.
Look, I have lots of Apple stock and I'm rooting for their success, I'm only saying I don't like seeing Android gaining in market share. Yes, it doesn't tell the whole story, because a lot of the devices are crap and don't really get used. But little by little, they're making inroads. I don't want Apple to ignore that and one day find themselves confronting a critical mass and lose developers. I never said it was happening right now, of course. Just that under the inane Sculley "leadership" they allowed overconfidence in high margin, high-quality low-volume luxury products to lead them to the brink of bankruptcy.
But nice attempt to make it about me personally. Smooth ad hominem.
Just point us all in the direction of that unquestionably correct source you have so we can ignore all others. It would save so much time in reading and discussion.
/s
2) Can you site your claim that Mac had 12% market share in 1993? PCMag has it at almost half that (6.7%) in 1993:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,1159610,00.asp
...the narrative that Mac OS had the market share lead and then lost it is not accurate, IMO. Apple ][ perhaps in the late '70s and early '80s, but not Mac OS in the '90s. While being a better OS in my opinion, Mac was plagued with a high price and other problems that prevented it from getting widespread numbers. Until now -- Mac is more popular today than it has ever been. Thus I don't follow your point.
3) Margins and profit are meaningless!? What sort of bizarro-speak is this!? Profit is the very air corporations breathe! Market share without profit is meaningless! That's why there are a billion individual Android phone makers but none of them make any money and their models evaporate into obscurity soon after launch. Even flagship models don't get updated often if ever! Meanwhile, iOS devices have *the longest* useful life span. And web data shows they're the leading devices for holiday shopping, etc. It's iOS first, without a doubt.
Apple commands the high end of the market, in the same was a brand like BMW or Mercedes. They don't care that low-end brands exist. Why should they? They make their profit where they make their profit. And Apple scoops up the vast majority of the profit in smartphones.
I have a hard time believing you have "lots of stock" if you care about market share over profit on your investment. But if true, sell now, you don't understand how Apple operates and will only be disappointed.