After tricking govt regulators, Uber got caught breaking Apple's iOS App Store rules

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 34
    bloggerblogbloggerblog Posts: 1,872member
    gatorguy said:
    John Gruber has an interesting post about why Uber did this and it's not for what we might assume:

    "At the time, Uber was dealing with widespread account fraud in places like China, where tricksters bought stolen iPhones that were erased of their memory and resold. Some Uber drivers there would then create dozens of fake email addresses to sign up for new Uber rider accounts attached to each phone, and request rides from those phones, which they would then accept. Since Uber was handing out incentives to drivers to take more rides, the drivers could earn more money this way".

    "the Uber app is deleted from the device and/or device is wiped. At this point, Uber knows the fingerprint for the device, but can’t use it to track the device in any way, and they don’t care, because until someone reinstalls the Uber app on the phone it isn’t being used to book fraudulent rides.

    The Uber app is reinstalled on the iPhone. When it launches, it does the fingerprint check and phones home again. Uber now knows this is the same iPhone they’ve seen before, because the fingerprint matches."


    If a driver accepts a ride, but no one is picked up and charged, the driver is not rewarded. Besides, for an Uber driver to buy a bunch of iPhones, in China, just to improve his rating is Ubsurd!
    hmurchisonrandominternetperson
  • Reply 22 of 34
    I like Uber and I have great expereince comparing for example to stinky and electronic commercial loaded New York yellow cabs that behind separating glass wall make you feel like perp in police car probably. However, hardware identification is as dumb as PayPal iidentification by credit card number (two people can use that same card in family and then PayPal will not allow two people to have separate accounts on the same credit card). In case of hardware ID... well I can do Uber from iPad or other devices (few of them in my posession) for my convenience so I should be identified by generated ID).
  • Reply 23 of 34
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,331member
    gatorguy said:
    John Gruber has an interesting post about why Uber did this and it's not for what we might assume:

    "At the time, Uber was dealing with widespread account fraud in places like China, where tricksters bought stolen iPhones that were erased of their memory and resold. Some Uber drivers there would then create dozens of fake email addresses to sign up for new Uber rider accounts attached to each phone, and request rides from those phones, which they would then accept. Since Uber was handing out incentives to drivers to take more rides, the drivers could earn more money this way".

    "the Uber app is deleted from the device and/or device is wiped. At this point, Uber knows the fingerprint for the device, but can’t use it to track the device in any way, and they don’t care, because until someone reinstalls the Uber app on the phone it isn’t being used to book fraudulent rides.

    The Uber app is reinstalled on the iPhone. When it launches, it does the fingerprint check and phones home again. Uber now knows this is the same iPhone they’ve seen before, because the fingerprint matches."


    If a driver accepts a ride, but no one is picked up and charged, the driver is not rewarded. Besides, for an Uber driver to buy a bunch of iPhones, in China, just to improve his rating is Ubsurd!
    I agree, from what I know about how driver's are paid, this seems like it wouldn't work and would be a huge pain to keep wiping and rebuilding iPhones, all with new App Store accounts.
  • Reply 24 of 34
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,238member
    gatorguy said:
    John Gruber has an interesting post about why Uber did this and it's not for what we might assume:

    "At the time, Uber was dealing with widespread account fraud in places like China, where tricksters bought stolen iPhones that were erased of their memory and resold. Some Uber drivers there would then create dozens of fake email addresses to sign up for new Uber rider accounts attached to each phone, and request rides from those phones, which they would then accept. Since Uber was handing out incentives to drivers to take more rides, the drivers could earn more money this way".

    "the Uber app is deleted from the device and/or device is wiped. At this point, Uber knows the fingerprint for the device, but can’t use it to track the device in any way, and they don’t care, because until someone reinstalls the Uber app on the phone it isn’t being used to book fraudulent rides.

    The Uber app is reinstalled on the iPhone. When it launches, it does the fingerprint check and phones home again. Uber now knows this is the same iPhone they’ve seen before, because the fingerprint matches."


    If a driver accepts a ride, but no one is picked up and charged, the driver is not rewarded. Besides, for an Uber driver to buy a bunch of iPhones, in China, just to improve his rating is Ubsurd!
    Gruber claims dozens of fake requests would be done from one single phone. Wipe it then start again supposedly. The driver didn't need to buy several phones. I don't know where Gruber got this from.

    Now I know where Gruber got this from. It does sound like a legit issue Uber was trying to deal with, but they can't break Apple rules to do so. 
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-28/this-driver-in-china-explains-how-he-is-helping-rip-off-uber
    edited April 2017
  • Reply 25 of 34
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,238member
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    John Gruber has an interesting post about why Uber did this and it's not for what we might assume:

    "At the time, Uber was dealing with widespread account fraud in places like China, where tricksters bought stolen iPhones that were erased of their memory and resold. Some Uber drivers there would then create dozens of fake email addresses to sign up for new Uber rider accounts attached to each phone, and request rides from those phones, which they would then accept. Since Uber was handing out incentives to drivers to take more rides, the drivers could earn more money this way".

    "the Uber app is deleted from the device and/or device is wiped. At this point, Uber knows the fingerprint for the device, but can’t use it to track the device in any way, and they don’t care, because until someone reinstalls the Uber app on the phone it isn’t being used to book fraudulent rides.

    The Uber app is reinstalled on the iPhone. When it launches, it does the fingerprint check and phones home again. Uber now knows this is the same iPhone they’ve seen before, because the fingerprint matches."


    If a driver accepts a ride, but no one is picked up and charged, the driver is not rewarded. Besides, for an Uber driver to buy a bunch of iPhones, in China, just to improve his rating is Ubsurd!
    I agree, from what I know about how driver's are paid, this seems like it wouldn't work and would be a huge pain to keep wiping and rebuilding iPhones, all with new App Store accounts.
    Soli, this Chinese driver scam was reported as far back as mid-2015, so yeah it apparently worked. 
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-28/this-driver-in-china-explains-how-he-is-helping-rip-off-uber
    https://qz.com/423288/fake-drivers-and-passengers-are-boosting-ubers-growth-in-china/
    edited April 2017 Soli
  • Reply 26 of 34
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,184member
    P-DogNC said:
    I hate Uber because I am a German teacher and the company's name should be "Über". The is no such word as "Uber", a common German preposition.
    I have to say, that's one of the most dumb things to Hate UBER over. When you Name a Company, you have to be creative. It has to be something no one else is using so you can Copyright it. Something people can remember. Who doesn't know UBER by now? Of course with all of the different country's and languages, what is perfectly fine in most places, is maybe not the word to use in a few other country's. I'm sure there's issues with GOOGLE. You really can't win. There's no real word of Google or a zillion other names. Why should it be called "Über"? It's a American company, not a German company. So it shouldn't be called "Über".
  • Reply 27 of 34
    doggonedoggone Posts: 191member
    gatorguy said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    John Gruber has an interesting post about why Uber did this and it's not for what we might assume:

    "At the time, Uber was dealing with widespread account fraud in places like China, where tricksters bought stolen iPhones that were erased of their memory and resold. Some Uber drivers there would then create dozens of fake email addresses to sign up for new Uber rider accounts attached to each phone, and request rides from those phones, which they would then accept. Since Uber was handing out incentives to drivers to take more rides, the drivers could earn more money this way".

    "the Uber app is deleted from the device and/or device is wiped. At this point, Uber knows the fingerprint for the device, but can’t use it to track the device in any way, and they don’t care, because until someone reinstalls the Uber app on the phone it isn’t being used to book fraudulent rides.

    The Uber app is reinstalled on the iPhone. When it launches, it does the fingerprint check and phones home again. Uber now knows this is the same iPhone they’ve seen before, because the fingerprint matches."


    If a driver accepts a ride, but no one is picked up and charged, the driver is not rewarded. Besides, for an Uber driver to buy a bunch of iPhones, in China, just to improve his rating is Ubsurd!
    I agree, from what I know about how driver's are paid, this seems like it wouldn't work and would be a huge pain to keep wiping and rebuilding iPhones, all with new App Store accounts.
    Soli, this Chinese driver scam was reported as far back as mid-2015, so yeah it apparently worked. 
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-28/this-driver-in-china-explains-how-he-is-helping-rip-off-uber
    https://qz.com/423288/fake-drivers-and-passengers-are-boosting-ubers-growth-in-china/
    That is Uber's problem and they should not be breaking Apple's privacy rules to solve it.
    Offering spivs like this is a 2 edged sword.  Yes it can help bring in or build a business but employees will often work out how to use it to their advantage.  Instead of modifying or cancelling the program Uber decide to join them by breaking Apple's rules.  
  • Reply 28 of 34
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,238member


    If a driver accepts a ride, but no one is picked up and charged, the driver is not rewarded. Besides, for an Uber driver to buy a bunch of iPhones, in China, just to improve his rating is Ubsurd!
    @bloggerblog ;See 2nd post back with links. I think Gruber may be spot on. 
    edited April 2017
  • Reply 29 of 34
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,331member
    gatorguy said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    John Gruber has an interesting post about why Uber did this and it's not for what we might assume:

    "At the time, Uber was dealing with widespread account fraud in places like China, where tricksters bought stolen iPhones that were erased of their memory and resold. Some Uber drivers there would then create dozens of fake email addresses to sign up for new Uber rider accounts attached to each phone, and request rides from those phones, which they would then accept. Since Uber was handing out incentives to drivers to take more rides, the drivers could earn more money this way".

    "the Uber app is deleted from the device and/or device is wiped. At this point, Uber knows the fingerprint for the device, but can’t use it to track the device in any way, and they don’t care, because until someone reinstalls the Uber app on the phone it isn’t being used to book fraudulent rides.

    The Uber app is reinstalled on the iPhone. When it launches, it does the fingerprint check and phones home again. Uber now knows this is the same iPhone they’ve seen before, because the fingerprint matches."


    If a driver accepts a ride, but no one is picked up and charged, the driver is not rewarded. Besides, for an Uber driver to buy a bunch of iPhones, in China, just to improve his rating is Ubsurd!
    I agree, from what I know about how driver's are paid, this seems like it wouldn't work and would be a huge pain to keep wiping and rebuilding iPhones, all with new App Store accounts.
    Soli, this Chinese driver scam was reported as far back as mid-2015, so yeah it apparently worked. 
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-28/this-driver-in-china-explains-how-he-is-helping-rip-off-uber
    https://qz.com/423288/fake-drivers-and-passengers-are-boosting-ubers-growth-in-china/
    OK, so this isn't about canceling a fare before its taken, it's about the driver paying for a fake ride which they then can lose some money that is paid to the "nurses," but then make up when they collect on Uber's bonuses. Seems a bit risky to pay out one right away, and then have to wait for Uber to pay you, not to mention all the effort.
    The driver, or “patient,” then makes the trip while the booker monitors remotely, confirms the journey was made and then pays Uber when the trip is complete. The nurse gets a small fee, usually about $1.60, and the reimbursement for the fare from the patient. The driver in turn collects the fare and a driver bonus that can be three times the fare from Uber, which thinks it is building brand awareness by giving away free rides.
    The solution is simple—get rid of bonuses.
    edited April 2017
  • Reply 30 of 34
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,238member
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    John Gruber has an interesting post about why Uber did this and it's not for what we might assume:

    "At the time, Uber was dealing with widespread account fraud in places like China, where tricksters bought stolen iPhones that were erased of their memory and resold. Some Uber drivers there would then create dozens of fake email addresses to sign up for new Uber rider accounts attached to each phone, and request rides from those phones, which they would then accept. Since Uber was handing out incentives to drivers to take more rides, the drivers could earn more money this way".

    "the Uber app is deleted from the device and/or device is wiped. At this point, Uber knows the fingerprint for the device, but can’t use it to track the device in any way, and they don’t care, because until someone reinstalls the Uber app on the phone it isn’t being used to book fraudulent rides.

    The Uber app is reinstalled on the iPhone. When it launches, it does the fingerprint check and phones home again. Uber now knows this is the same iPhone they’ve seen before, because the fingerprint matches."


    If a driver accepts a ride, but no one is picked up and charged, the driver is not rewarded. Besides, for an Uber driver to buy a bunch of iPhones, in China, just to improve his rating is Ubsurd!
    I agree, from what I know about how driver's are paid, this seems like it wouldn't work and would be a huge pain to keep wiping and rebuilding iPhones, all with new App Store accounts.
    Soli, this Chinese driver scam was reported as far back as mid-2015, so yeah it apparently worked. 
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-28/this-driver-in-china-explains-how-he-is-helping-rip-off-uber
    https://qz.com/423288/fake-drivers-and-passengers-are-boosting-ubers-growth-in-china/
    OK, so this isn't about canceling a fare before its taken, it's about the driver paying for a fake ride which they then can lose some money that is paid to the "nurses," but then make up when they collect on Uber's bonuses. Seems a bit risky to pay out one right away, and then have to wait for Uber to pay you, not to mention all the effort.
    The driver, or “patient,” then makes the trip while the booker monitors remotely, confirms the journey was made and then pays Uber when the trip is complete. The nurse gets a small fee, usually about $1.60, and the reimbursement for the fare from the patient. The driver in turn collects the fare and a driver bonus that can be three times the fare from Uber, which thinks it is building brand awareness by giving away free rides.
    The solution is simple—get rid of bonuses.
    Their driver bonus program here in the US that encourages accepting more rides is under fire for a different reason. It may lead to overly tired drivers chasing that cash bonus.

    "The (US) cash "incentives" range anywhere between $40 and $85 dollars extra offered to drivers who reach 55 rides in four consecutive days, or reach 55 rides from Friday at 4 a.m. to Monday at 4 a.m."

    Soli
  • Reply 31 of 34
    P-DogNC said:
    I hate Uber because I am a German teacher and the company's name should be "Über". The is no such word as "Uber", a common German preposition.
    I remember when language experts where harshly criticizing Apple's ad campaign because they couldn't wrap their heads around Apple's "Think Different" campaign.
    But this case is different since "Uber" is used as a proper noun, which hints towards the original German word "Über".
    Besides, English teachers aren't hating on Lyft for spelling it with a "y".
    "Beatles" was criticized by some in 1964-65 for not conforming to the spelling of "beetles."  The artist formerly known as Prince settled the debate in 1993 by switching from letters to a symbol (Love Symbol #2).  
    Soli
  • Reply 32 of 34
    P-DogNC said:
    I hate Uber because I am a German teacher and the company's name should be "Über". The is no such word as "Uber", a common German preposition.
    I remember when language experts where harshly criticizing Apple's ad campaign because they couldn't wrap their heads around Apple's "Think Different" campaign.
    But this case is different since "Uber" is used as a proper noun, which hints towards the original German word "Über".
    Besides, English teachers aren't hating on Lyft for spelling it with a "y".
    "Beatles" was criticized by some in 1964-65 for not conforming to the spelling of "beetles."  The artist formerly known as Prince settled the debate in 1993 by switching from letters to a symbol (Love Symbol #2).  

    Likewise, Google is an accidental misspelling of "googol."  I would have thought it was intentional to have a nicely trademarkable name, but that's not the case (at least according to Wikipedia, the irrefutable source of all knowledge).
  • Reply 33 of 34
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,238member
    P-DogNC said:
    I hate Uber because I am a German teacher and the company's name should be "Über". The is no such word as "Uber", a common German preposition.
    I remember when language experts where harshly criticizing Apple's ad campaign because they couldn't wrap their heads around Apple's "Think Different" campaign.
    But this case is different since "Uber" is used as a proper noun, which hints towards the original German word "Über".
    Besides, English teachers aren't hating on Lyft for spelling it with a "y".
    "Beatles" was criticized by some in 1964-65 for not conforming to the spelling of "beetles."  The artist formerly known as Prince settled the debate in 1993 by switching from letters to a symbol (Love Symbol #2).  

    Likewise, Google is an accidental misspelling of "googol."  I would have thought it was intentional to have a nicely trademarkable name, but that's not the case (at least according to Wikipedia, the irrefutable source of all knowledge).
    It was and it wasn't. Page's friend Sean made the spelling error when searching to see if the domain name was available. Page recognized the error when Sean brought it to him but liked that spelling better anyway. Or so the story goes. 
    randominternetperson
  • Reply 34 of 34
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    P-DogNC said:
    I hate Uber because I am a German teacher and the company's name should be "Über". The is no such word as "Uber", a common German preposition.
    I remember when language experts where harshly criticizing Apple's ad campaign because they couldn't wrap their heads around Apple's "Think Different" campaign.
    But this case is different since "Uber" is used as a proper noun, which hints towards the original German word "Über".
    Besides, English teachers aren't hating on Lyft for spelling it with a "y".
    "Beatles" was criticized by some in 1964-65 for not conforming to the spelling of "beetles."  The artist formerly known as Prince settled the debate in 1993 by switching from letters to a symbol (Love Symbol #2).  
    Beat related to Mercey BEAT which was a kind of music played around Liverpool and obviously a play on word with Beetles too...
    Just to say people will criticize ANYTHING.

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