There's no need for Apple to show off its hardware at this point. Fully autonomous vehicles are years out in spite of what some CEOs of certain companies say, or all the tech buzz. Reminds me of when "hover boards" which never actually hovered and certainly weren't boards, were being talked about. Everywhere. Ridiculous.
The state of AI doesn't Peter out for fully autonomous vehicles. And then the question is - what's the point of a partially autonomous vehicle? It's more work to review (and know when the machine is about to make an error) than it is to... simply drive. I'd venture to say it is safer if the driver felt fully responsible for their safety - rather than be half asleep, than to be in a partially automated vehicle.
I think Apple knows this too, so they will continue to carry out R&D and meticulously compare AI decisions with human decisions, and refine the AI. Which will take years. Once they are close to completion then they can get back into making hardware - this time for a completely autonomous vehicle.
Just like the iPhone ditched the plastic button keyboards, scroll wheels and balls, hardware focus cameras, styluses, memory cards, and even headphone jacks, the Apple Car, driven by carOS, could ditch lot of things: Steering wheels, pedals, gear selectors, parking brakes, horn, instrument cluster, dashboard, engines, jumper cables, bumpers, mirrors, sun shades, forward facing main windshield, forward facing seats, etc.
But the hardest part is the software - and their modified cars are adequate for the development they need to do.
This will be the hardest thing they've ever done. It can't launch like Apple Maps. It has to be perfect on day one. And it's so doable by a company like Apple that has such bright dedicated people working together.
Yeah, no it'd be commercial suicide to wait until they were ready for no steering wheel at all before producing a car—which is probably 15+ years out. By which time every other car on the road has self-driving and the whole thing is old news. No, Apple's first car will have a steering wheel and auto-driving will be optional on certain roads and in certain situations. Certain states are going to require a steering wheel for some decades. You can't tell your customers to avoid those states.
Apple is said to be using off-the-shelf hardware and electronics on their vehicles rather than anything Apple has designed for testing which suggests that they're working on the software side rather than building a car at this point.
No, it suggests the software is more important than hardware when it comes to self-driving. There's no way in hell they have abandoned their car project. Car companies wouldn't let Apple take over their car in that way and Apple are the most vertical company their is with the best hardware team in the world, several of whom are ex-car designers and most of whom have a passion for cars and they hired hundreds and hundreds of car engineers, not for shits and giggles. In time that Bloomberg story is proven inaccurate. Apple like people outside Apple, and especially the press, believing this story.
While we can all dispute the importance of hardware vs.software I think that if Apple were factually in the process of building an "Apple car" they would of obvious necessity (and government requirement) be testing their software with THEIR automotive hardware.
Even secretive Apple could not keep an actual car under wraps since testing of the Apple-built vehicle systems on public roads is an integral and time-consuming part of the process. Hell even test-track pics would get leaked. We learned several months ago that the former Navy Yard and now vehicle test-bed they were presumably using is shared with other companies as well.
Apple is said to be using off-the-shelf hardware and electronics on their vehicles rather than anything Apple has designed for testing which suggests that they're working on the software side rather than building a car at this point.
No, it suggests the software is more important than hardware when it comes to self-driving. There's no way in hell they have abandoned their car project. Car companies wouldn't let Apple take over their car in that way and Apple are the most vertical company their is with the best hardware team in the world, several of whom are ex-car designers and most of whom have a passion for cars and they hired hundreds and hundreds of car engineers, not for shits and giggles. In time that Bloomberg story is proven inaccurate. Apple like people outside Apple, and especially the press, believing this story.
While we can all dispute the importance of hardware vs.software I think that if Apple were factually in the process of building an "Apple car" they would of obvious necessity (and government requirement) be testing their software with THEIR automotive hardware.
Unnecessary at this stage. Hardware and software teams are separated until a merging makes sense. At this stage they are testing out their software with some custom built Apple hardware, a third party car and easily available sensors and cameras from other vendors. No need to reinvent the wheel at this point. Hardware teams for Apple car would be making and testing chassis, brakes, electric motors & drivetrains, making seating, interiors and testing all kinds of materials and designs. Add to that a red herring drop on the press's lap and they're on the road.
Apple is said to be using off-the-shelf hardware and electronics on their vehicles rather than anything Apple has designed for testing which suggests that they're working on the software side rather than building a car at this point.
No, it suggests the software is more important than hardware when it comes to self-driving. There's no way in hell they have abandoned their car project. Car companies wouldn't let Apple take over their car in that way and Apple are the most vertical company their is with the best hardware team in the world, several of whom are ex-car designers and most of whom have a passion for cars and they hired hundreds and hundreds of car engineers, not for shits and giggles. In time that Bloomberg story is proven inaccurate. Apple like people outside Apple, and especially the press, believing this story.
While we can all dispute the importance of hardware vs.software I think that if Apple were factually in the process of building an "Apple car" they would of obvious necessity (and government requirement) be testing their software with THEIR automotive hardware.
Unnecessary at this stage. Hardware and software teams are separated.
Personally I don't think that would be possible if an actual car is currently being built. The government regulations and test requirements that apply to vehicles and their control systems, brakes, engines, batteries, crash protection, accident avoidance features and on and on before they can move to the next step wouldn't allow for hardware to be separated from software would it? It's not like making a phone.
I fully appreciate that you really, REALLY want to believe that there's an Apple car hidden behind big doors that will fly open next year with bright lights shining on Apple's fresh new car headed to you. Perhaps Apple will one day build its own car, but there's a total lack of any evidence that they're doing so right now. On the contrary the images of their test vehicles shows just the opposite, that it's a software focus at the moment, a platform for unspecified OEM's and/or ride hailing companies (*cough* Didi Chuxing) to tailor to their cars and not an Apple designed and manufactured vehicle.
IMHO if Apple had a car in progress the auto manufacturers would have some wind of it with high-level engineers moving around so often, even if the details were sparse. One initial reaction might be dumping Apple's CarPlay rather than enable a competitor. But instead CarPlay is rolling out a bit quicker in recent months, as is Android Auto now that the OEM's have been assured Google is not trying to push them out of the way with a car of their own.
Maybe something next decade, but I don't believe there's an Apple Car on the way now. If there were there would be some knowledgeable background chatter about it if not outright spy pics. A vetted car and it's systems can't be hidden in an engineering office.
I would just like to hear what the perceived market opportunity here is ...?
Is Apple considering some Android-esque approach to future vehicle autonomous operating systems where they sell software to the hardware manufacturers?
I'm a major Apple fan, but Tesla is my dog in this particular fight.
What hardware manufacturer is going to buy Apple software? And wouldn't that be a complete 180 from Apple's current business model? Isn't Apple all about the tight integration of hardware and software.
Integrating hardware and software does doesn't mean you have to create the hardware. Macs are mostly built with off-the-shelf components that you and I can buy ourselves...
Macs are mostly built with off-the-shelf components that you and I can buy ourselves…
Is that accurate? How would you build a 13" MBP at home? You could get the aluminium chasss milled once you design the parameters, but I would't call that off-the-shelf. And how about the keyboard keys, the backlighting, or the logic board? Even their SSDs are proprietary. Physically they're using PCIe, but electrically it's wired differently. And then their SSDs have their own controllers, but at least you could buy a replacement from a 3rd-party supplier, like OWC, so you could probably get an OEM part.
Apple is said to be using off-the-shelf hardware and electronics on their vehicles rather than anything Apple has designed for testing which suggests that they're working on the software side rather than building a car at this point.
No, it suggests the software is more important than hardware when it comes to self-driving. There's no way in hell they have abandoned their car project. Car companies wouldn't let Apple take over their car in that way and Apple are the most vertical company their is with the best hardware team in the world, several of whom are ex-car designers and most of whom have a passion for cars and they hired hundreds and hundreds of car engineers, not for shits and giggles. In time that Bloomberg story is proven inaccurate. Apple like people outside Apple, and especially the press, believing this story.
While we can all dispute the importance of hardware vs.software I think that if Apple were factually in the process of building an "Apple car" they would of obvious necessity (and government requirement) be testing their software with THEIR automotive hardware.
Unnecessary at this stage. Hardware and software teams are separated.
I fully appreciate that you really, REALLY want to believe that there's an Apple car hidden behind big doors that will fly open next year with bright lights shining on Apple's fresh new car headed to you. Perhaps Apple will one day build its own car, but there's a total lack of any evidence that they're doing so right now.
I never said next year. Before 2022, probably. Before 2025, certainly. But next year? Not a chance. As for evidence. There's lots of evidence.
Apple is said to be using off-the-shelf hardware and electronics on their vehicles rather than anything Apple has designed for testing which suggests that they're working on the software side rather than building a car at this point.
No, it suggests the software is more important than hardware when it comes to self-driving. There's no way in hell they have abandoned their car project. Car companies wouldn't let Apple take over their car in that way and Apple are the most vertical company their is with the best hardware team in the world, several of whom are ex-car designers and most of whom have a passion for cars and they hired hundreds and hundreds of car engineers, not for shits and giggles. In time that Bloomberg story is proven inaccurate. Apple like people outside Apple, and especially the press, believing this story.
While we can all dispute the importance of hardware vs.software I think that if Apple were factually in the process of building an "Apple car" they would of obvious necessity (and government requirement) be testing their software with THEIR automotive hardware.
Unnecessary at this stage. Hardware and software teams are separated.
I fully appreciate that you really, REALLY want to believe that there's an Apple car hidden behind big doors that will fly open next year with bright lights shining on Apple's fresh new car headed to you. Perhaps Apple will one day build its own car, but there's a total lack of any evidence that they're doing so right now.
As for evidence. There's lots of evidence.
Such as? I'm really not trying to be obstinate, but realistic. There's just nothing leaked, sketched, photographed or rumored that says Apple is building a car as far as I've seen and sooner rather than later something would have to pop it's head out to have a car for sale by 2022. But they are definitely working on software for autonomous driving. My personal guess is that like some others such as Didi, Uber, Google, GM, Ford etc have decided on as one primary way to make money from it Apple has designs on ride-sharing too. But even there nothing ground-breaking may actually come from it. Or maybe it will.
How do we know this is an Apple car? The Bloomberg report said it emerged from an Apple facility based on an anonymous tipster. Well I guess AI is a rumor site so let's run with it.
Just another step in auto evolution. Most, if not all, cars will have autonomy. Probably offered as an option at first but eventually it will be standard in all vehicles. It will be a matter of choice by the purchaser which vehicle they think looks cool vs how well the OS and system works. Just like computers.
Of course, we'll have some people outraged that they won't be able to drive it themselves. On the other hand, many people can't drive but the autonomous vehicles will probably make traffic go smoother and save some lives – after all the kinks are worked out. There always will be glitches in the system though. It will become the norm, though. People will get used to hearing about someone getting hurt/killed in a car accident that was the "car's fault". The law will be ridiculous by then, as well.
I can only imagine protests and lawsuits (or not) because people will want to take the steering wheel for themselves. Imagine someone in jail because they wanted to drive a car! Whoa... what a trip....
That will never happen where every vehicle available on the market is autonomous. There will always be people driving vehicles.
Did someone say never.
Every vehicle will be autonomous when the government and insurance industry determine that autonomous vehicles are 'much safer' than human driven vehicles, with the autonomous vehicle maker subsidizing/paying for the vehicle insurance while 'independent' drivers of non-autonomous vehicles are forced to pay double/triple/quadruple/ what they now pay for vehicle insurance, essentially pricing the independent driver out of the vehicle market.
Please stop saying Apple abondoned its car project. This is unproven and I would argue logically false. Apple, of all companies, doesn't work on self-driving without working on a vehicle. They just don't.
If they are in fact developing their own car, they need not drive prototypes on the roads to collect data. This would be the way to do it and keep secrecy on the supposed Apple Car Edition (or whatever).
Please stop saying Apple abondoned its car project. This is unproven and I would argue logically false. Apple, of all companies, doesn't work on self-driving without working on a vehicle. They just don't.
If they are in fact developing their own car, they need not drive prototypes on the roads to collect data. This would be the way to do it and keep secrecy on the supposed Apple Car Edition (or whatever).
Exactly. Work on vehicle in secret—by hiring 1,000 car engineers. Work on self-driving tech using another vehicle. Combine.
If they are in fact developing their own car, they need not drive prototypes on the roads to collect data. This would be the way to do it and keep secrecy on the supposed Apple Car Edition (or whatever).
Doesn’t whatever regulatory commission that handles vehicles require x hours of real-world testing before entering the market?
If they are in fact developing their own car, they need not drive prototypes on the roads to collect data. This would be the way to do it and keep secrecy on the supposed Apple Car Edition (or whatever).
Doesn’t whatever regulatory commission that handles vehicles require x hours of real-world testing before entering the market?
I'd think so. Would you trust any automobile that went to market after only being tested in an isolated lab environment? I wouldn't.
I'd think so. Would you trust any automobile that went to market after only being tested in an isolated lab environment? I wouldn't.
I wonder what the case for the Apple Car looks like…
Will people claim Apple added bumpers because they made a mistake in the design? If you bridge your hand between a side panel and a door will the radio lose its connection?
Will people claim Apple added bumpers because they made a mistake in the design? If you bridge your hand between a side panel and a door will the radio lose its connection?
Chevy drivers will smugly complain about the unibody construction of the body, stating that you’ll have to “replace the whole car” if you get in an accident. Or there’s always this old nugget to be dredged up, probably with a reference to Apple Maps being bad or something.
Will people claim Apple added bumpers because they made a mistake in the design? If you bridge your hand between a side panel and a door will the radio lose its connection?
Chevy drivers will smugly complain about the unibody construction of the body, stating that you’ll have to “replace the whole car” if you get in an accident. Or there’s always this old nugget to be dredged up, probably with a reference to Apple Maps being bad or something.
In a recent AI post someone used Apple Maps as an argument why anything Apple does with a car won't ever work properly.
Did I miss something? Is there anything to suggest this isn't an advanced mapping / photography system possibly connected to Apple's vision of augmented reality for example? Why is the assumption its a self driving car project?
Comments
Yeah, no it'd be commercial suicide to wait until they were ready for no steering wheel at all before producing a car—which is probably 15+ years out. By which time every other car on the road has self-driving and the whole thing is old news. No, Apple's first car will have a steering wheel and auto-driving will be optional on certain roads and in certain situations. Certain states are going to require a steering wheel for some decades. You can't tell your customers to avoid those states.
Even secretive Apple could not keep an actual car under wraps since testing of the Apple-built vehicle systems on public roads is an integral and time-consuming part of the process. Hell even test-track pics would get leaked. We learned several months ago that the former Navy Yard and now vehicle test-bed they were presumably using is shared with other companies as well.
I fully appreciate that you really, REALLY want to believe that there's an Apple car hidden behind big doors that will fly open next year with bright lights shining on Apple's fresh new car headed to you. Perhaps Apple will one day build its own car, but there's a total lack of any evidence that they're doing so right now. On the contrary the images of their test vehicles shows just the opposite, that it's a software focus at the moment, a platform for unspecified OEM's and/or ride hailing companies (*cough* Didi Chuxing) to tailor to their cars and not an Apple designed and manufactured vehicle.
IMHO if Apple had a car in progress the auto manufacturers would have some wind of it with high-level engineers moving around so often, even if the details were sparse. One initial reaction might be dumping Apple's CarPlay rather than enable a competitor. But instead CarPlay is rolling out a bit quicker in recent months, as is Android Auto now that the OEM's have been assured Google is not trying to push them out of the way with a car of their own.
Maybe something next decade, but I don't believe there's an Apple Car on the way now. If there were there would be some knowledgeable background chatter about it if not outright spy pics. A vetted car and it's systems can't be hidden in an engineering office.
There's miles to go...