Apple's Siri-based Echo competitor rumored to borrow design cues from Mac Pro, could arriv...

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  • Reply 61 of 86
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    Walking a few steps instead of remote voice activation is healthier. Talking is not the best way to interact with computers. When driving it is. In a party with many drunk people cheering and shouting it is not.
    You just contradicted yourself. By your admission there are scenarios in which talking is more ideal and/or safer than typing, using a mouse, or pressing a series of buttons. What about those that are vision impaired or immobile. Are they then suppose to have no modern conveniences because you want them to walk? I use Siri and Alexa while I'm walking, so what category does that fall into?
    People will just realize that walking is healthier than dying slowly on the couch and those modern conveniences will simply be forgotten at a remote corner of the house collecting dust. Junkyards are full of those modern conveniences since 70s…
    What does that have to do anything being discussed? What's unhealthy about using Siri as I walk away from a parking meter I just put change in to quickly set a timer via Siri? What's unhealthy about having my hands full while in the kitchen making dinner and want to change what is playing on Spotify via the Echo? Studies show that having less artificial light in your room while you're trying to sleep is better for you yet you're telling me I'm lazy for having an Echo Dot I can ask for the time?

    These are all examples I've given.

    I don't even have an example of how the Echo can be used from a couch. What I do from my couch is use my TV or read. Are you also against a remote control because it's better to get up to turn giant knobs and adjust rabbit ears on your TV because "walking is healthier than dying slowly on the couch" or do you use a remote control?
    Do not try to initiate an off-topic thread, you get the idea. We came to this point because I said "Talking is not the best way to interact with computers" yet you still try to convince me to the superiority of talking. You set your timer by talking, I set it with a couple taps on my Apple Watch, which I find more convenient. Enjoy your Echo but do not try to present it as the future of computing. I appreciate the importance of talking especially with public kiosks, vending machines, ATMs and alike, but it has no place in my daily computer use because "computerized" interactions are always more efficient than "anthromorphic" interactions.
    1) You changed the parameters by making an artificial modifier that to interact via a voice command means you can't be ambulatory.

    2) I guarantee that you'll be taking to a computerized system more in your life—not less—as time marches on, despite your odd, irrational hatred toward the Echo as "proof" that taking that to a computer is inherently bad. I know this because I can see the general path for the evolution of personal digital assistances and because even you're admitted—at least twice now—that you already talk to these devices. Rally against progress all you want but outside of the human race no longer existing this is happening.
    Why are trying to teach me what I am thinking, I know what I am thinking. Focus instead to get what I am saying. Echo cannot be a model for the evolution of personal digital assistances. Personal digital assistants will evolve as long as they are tailored to watch and adapt to their human owner's daily life, health, job, expenses, leisures and alike. Antromorphizing computer interaction is just a cartoon of that. Making jokes, singing, giggling don't make these more "assistant". If Apple releases an intelligent speaker or similar, I am sure DED will come in couple of years with an article exposing how Apple has sold of those in one quarter compared to Echos sold in years. 
    1) Echo is no more a personal digital assistance service than the Apple Watch is. It's just a device used to access the service. In the case of Amazon it's Alexa, with Apple it's Siri. One day the AI may not require an internet connection for basic functionality, but that day hasn't yet come despite Apple moving part of Siri's "brain" to the iPhone.

    2) As for tailoring, Amazon has done more for tailoring in the past 2 years than any other company selling products. They even have an Alexa app for the iPhone and car integration with Ford without having to go through another system like Android Auto or CarPlay. All those lazy drivers who want to keep their eyes on the road are the worst¡

    3) I feel like you should understand these rudimentary facts about this growing technology field, yet you keep making really odd statements. Do you really not know how this stuff works or is this blind hatred for Amazon? What are you going to do when Apple releases an Echo-like device? I doubt you'll be as upset with Apple as you are with Amazon as I've never once read a comment from you about how Siri on the Mac is for lazy people.
  • Reply 62 of 86
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,112member
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    Walking a few steps instead of remote voice activation is healthier. Talking is not the best way to interact with computers. When driving it is. In a party with many drunk people cheering and shouting it is not.
    You just contradicted yourself. By your admission there are scenarios in which talking is more ideal and/or safer than typing, using a mouse, or pressing a series of buttons. What about those that are vision impaired or immobile. Are they then suppose to have no modern conveniences because you want them to walk? I use Siri and Alexa while I'm walking, so what category does that fall into?
    People will just realize that walking is healthier than dying slowly on the couch and those modern conveniences will simply be forgotten at a remote corner of the house collecting dust. Junkyards are full of those modern conveniences since 70s…
    What does that have to do anything being discussed? What's unhealthy about using Siri as I walk away from a parking meter I just put change in to quickly set a timer via Siri? What's unhealthy about having my hands full while in the kitchen making dinner and want to change what is playing on Spotify via the Echo? Studies show that having less artificial light in your room while you're trying to sleep is better for you yet you're telling me I'm lazy for having an Echo Dot I can ask for the time?

    These are all examples I've given.

    I don't even have an example of how the Echo can be used from a couch. What I do from my couch is use my TV or read. Are you also against a remote control because it's better to get up to turn giant knobs and adjust rabbit ears on your TV because "walking is healthier than dying slowly on the couch" or do you use a remote control?
    Do not try to initiate an off-topic thread, you get the idea. We came to this point because I said "Talking is not the best way to interact with computers" yet you still try to convince me to the superiority of talking. You set your timer by talking, I set it with a couple taps on my Apple Watch, which I find more convenient. Enjoy your Echo but do not try to present it as the future of computing. I appreciate the importance of talking especially with public kiosks, vending machines, ATMs and alike, but it has no place in my daily computer use because "computerized" interactions are always more efficient than "anthromorphic" interactions.
    1) You changed the parameters by making an artificial modifier that to interact via a voice command means you can't be ambulatory.

    2) I guarantee that you'll be taking to a computerized system more in your life—not less—as time marches on, despite your odd, irrational hatred toward the Echo as "proof" that taking that to a computer is inherently bad. I know this because I can see the general path for the evolution of personal digital assistances and because even you're admitted—at least twice now—that you already talk to these devices. Rally against progress all you want but outside of the human race no longer existing this is happening.
    Why are trying to teach me what I am thinking, I know what I am thinking. Focus instead to get what I am saying. Echo cannot be a model for the evolution of personal digital assistances. Personal digital assistants will evolve as long as they are tailored to watch and adapt to their human owner's daily life, health, job, expenses, leisures and alike. Antromorphizing computer interaction is just a cartoon of that. Making jokes, singing, giggling don't make these more "assistant". If Apple releases an intelligent speaker or similar, I am sure DED will come in couple of years with an article exposing how Apple has sold of those in one quarter compared to Echos sold in years. 
    1) Echo is no more a personal digital assistance service than the Apple Watch is. It's just a device used to access the service. In the case of Amazon it's Alexa, with Apple it's Siri. One day the AI may not require an internet connection for basic functionality, but that day hasn't yet come despite Apple moving part of Siri's "brain" to the iPhone.

    2) As for tailoring, Amazon has done more for tailoring in the past 2 years than any other company selling products. They even have an Alexa app for the iPhone and car integration with Ford without having to go through another system like Android Auto or CarPlay. All those lazy drivers who want to keep their eyes on the road are the worst¡

    3) I feel like you should understand these rudimentary facts about this growing technology field, yet you keep making really odd statements. Do you really not know how this stuff works or is this blind hatred for Amazon? What are you going to do when Apple releases an Echo-like device? I doubt you'll be as upset with Apple as you are with Amazon as I've never once read a comment from you about how Siri on the Mac is for lazy people.
    When Apple releases an "Echo-like" device of course I will try to buy it if it fits my budget. I am sure that one will be a state of the art hi-fi speaker, with a mature market, audience and culture, not a below $200 unnamed cheap commodity.

    Look, Apple doesn't sell "AI" and it never will. Remember how the "Internet" of late 90's had been sold to the people? A floppy disk with a dialup program and some username to be scratched on the envelope. Later the floppy has been dropped and the "Internet" has been reduced to a crappy card. Today's "AI" is sold exactly the same way: a cylindrical box with fancy lights and some cheap unnamed speaker in it. Apple will never sell such an "AI", it may sell a hiQ speaker that will compete in the high-end speaker market and will appeal to hi-fi addicts.
    edited April 2017
  • Reply 63 of 86
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    When Apple releases an "Echo-like" device of course I will try to buy it if it fits my budget. I am sure that one will be a state of the art hi-fi speaker, with a mature market, audience and culture, not a below $200 unnamed cheap commodity.

    Look, Apple doesn't sell "AI" and it never will. Remember how the "Internet" of late 90's had been sold to the people? A floppy disk with a dialup program and some username to be scratched on the envelope. Later the floppy has been dropped and the "Internet" has been reduced to a crappy card. 
    1) Why would you automatically buy it? Because it has an Apple logo on it? You've already stated that a digital personal assistant in the home is simply an act of laziness that no one needs.

    2) Didn't Jobs called the iPod Hi-Fi a "state of the art hi-fi speaker"?

    3) One of the issues people had with the Echo was that it was so pricey yet you're saying one of your issue with the $180 Echo is that's not priced high enough. :\

    4) Apple sells "AI" no more than Amazon does, but yes, Apple absolutely does sell AI. It's a much touted feature since the iPhone 4S.

    5) The internet is "a crappy card"? I have no idea what the fuck that's suppose to mean.

    Today's "AI" is sold exactly the same way: a cylindrical box with fancy lights and some cheap unnamed speaker in it. Apple will never sell such an "AI", it may sell a hiQ speaker that will compete in the high-end speaker market and will appeal to hi-fi addicts.
    1) You think the iPhone is a cylindrical box? You think Fire TV is a cylindrical box? [dozens of examples possible.] Once again, you have some fallacious tunnel vision enabled for this conversation. You don't have to understand how these digital personal assistances work to understand how this technology is being utilized by hundreds of millions of people every day.

    2a) So you know the brand of the speaker in the iPhone? iFixit is just as likely to have that info as they are to have the speaker component maker for Amazon's HW. Regardless, I call bullshit on that.

    2b) More importantly, why does it matter who makes the speaker if it sounds good. You what works better than using Siri on the iPhone? Using Alexa on the Echo because of the 7 far-field microphones making it much easier to understand a query and the 2.5 woofer and 2" tweeter in the device. But go ahead and tell us how this unnamed speaker is worse than the iPhone when using Siri because it's Amazon.

    2c) Of all the companies out there, Apple is least likely to license with Bose or Harmon Kardon for some BS speaker branding. I think HTC and Samsung has done that for smartphones in the past, so have fun with those devices, but I'm going to stick with products that work.

    3d) As previously mentioned and ignored by you, the Echo is a BT hub you can easily connect devices to it (like pushing a podcast from an iPhone to the Echo's speaker) or from it (like pushing audio to another speaker system of your choice if you're such a brand name freak and self-proclaimed "addict" that you that you refuse to use a digital personal assistance that isn't through a device that costs more than $200). You can even play from an iPhone to the Echo and out to other speakers and the Echo is as easy as it comes since you can pair by saying "connector to my iPhone," which is something I do often when I come inside while still listening to something on my headphones.
  • Reply 64 of 86
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,425member
    Soli said:
    paxman said:
    Soli said:




    No argument here that this is all in its infancy, but I can't wrap my head around your statements with voice commands. Since we're talking about a personal digital assistant, and not just a smart thermostat, how will that work without your voice? How will it know what music I feel like listening to right now, or what an alarm/timer needs to be set for, or what random question I want answered? Even on Star Trek they still said "Computer…" because barking a command, as a you put it, is still a practical tool.

    I can imagine some things getting much more intelligent, like the system being able to look at your calendar entries and location, and then ompare that to previous alarms and your typical wake/sleep schedule to determine an alarm to set but it would still need to verify with the user to be sure.

    If it saves you time to make a short statement over having to type a bunch of icons on a device and then type or use a scroll wheel to set, then why would you choose the route that takes longer and requires more effort? For example, I use my iPhone's Clock app all the time and yet I have no idea where the icon is located on the home screen. It's just much easier to "bark" at Siri to set a timer when I putting coins in a meter. With Calendar, I know where that app is and I read it often, but I only ever write my entries when using my Mac; on the iPhone I use Siri because it's faster and easier.

    Niggling point: You "bark" the command at the microphone, not the speaker.

    Sorry I was a bit unclear.  With Alexa and Google Home you utter a command to focus on a particular service and in the case of the Google Home the voice changes to let you know you are in the context of this "service".  So if I wanted to find a good wine pairing I'd have ask GH "Ask Wine Guide what goes with Scallops".  As Wine Guide responds it's in a slightly different voice to let me know.   That feels a bit like talking to Sybil and her 13 personalities.   This is wholly unnecessary in my view.   What I should be able to do is have my VA store my favorites.  Computers excel at storing and retrieving data. 

    "Hey Siri my favorite pizza is Mod Pizza"
    "Hey Siri my favorite beer is Hoegaarden "
    "Hey Siri my favorite travel service is Lyft"

    This is what a human assistant that is effective does.  They learn what the person they assist likes and does not like.  

    Thanks ..niggling is allowed.  I should always be striving to be more clear and thorough. 


    Soli
  • Reply 65 of 86
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    Soli said:
    paxman said:
    Soli said:




    No argument here that this is all in its infancy, but I can't wrap my head around your statements with voice commands. Since we're talking about a personal digital assistant, and not just a smart thermostat, how will that work without your voice? How will it know what music I feel like listening to right now, or what an alarm/timer needs to be set for, or what random question I want answered? Even on Star Trek they still said "Computer…" because barking a command, as a you put it, is still a practical tool.

    I can imagine some things getting much more intelligent, like the system being able to look at your calendar entries and location, and then ompare that to previous alarms and your typical wake/sleep schedule to determine an alarm to set but it would still need to verify with the user to be sure.

    If it saves you time to make a short statement over having to type a bunch of icons on a device and then type or use a scroll wheel to set, then why would you choose the route that takes longer and requires more effort? For example, I use my iPhone's Clock app all the time and yet I have no idea where the icon is located on the home screen. It's just much easier to "bark" at Siri to set a timer when I putting coins in a meter. With Calendar, I know where that app is and I read it often, but I only ever write my entries when using my Mac; on the iPhone I use Siri because it's faster and easier.

    Niggling point: You "bark" the command at the microphone, not the speaker.

    Sorry I was a bit unclear.  With Alexa and Google Home you utter a command to focus on a particular service and in the case of the Google Home the voice changes to let you know you are in the context of this "service".  So if I wanted to find a good wine pairing I'd have ask GH "Ask Wine Guide what goes with Scallops".  As Wine Guide responds it's in a slightly different voice to let me know.   That feels a bit like talking to Sybil and her 13 personalities.   This is wholly unnecessary in my view.   What I should be able to do is have my VA store my favorites.  Computers excel at storing and retrieving data. 

    "Hey Siri my favorite pizza is Mod Pizza"
    "Hey Siri my favorite beer is Hoegaarden "
    "Hey Siri my favorite travel service is Lyft"

    This is what a human assistant that is effective does.  They learn what the person they assist likes and does not like.  

    Thanks ..niggling is allowed.  I should always be striving to be more clear and thorough. 
    1) I only use one Skill with Alexa that uses a different voice, but that's because it's a recording that Alexa pulls, but I see your point. In some cases that will be fine (like reading an audiobook) and in others it would be jarring. Are the Wine Guide replies recorded messages or is this another AI that is converting text-to-speech and then pushing to Google Home to play back to you?

    2) I love the idea of being able to tell Siri your favorites. Most of them should be discoverable from your usage history, but having a list you can enable at the onset would be helpful—it would also likely give people a better idea of what Siri can do—but I wouldn't hold my breath considering how long it took for Apple to add settings so that "Hey Siri" can better understand your voice after enable it.

    Ideally I'd like for Siri to have you repeat a purposely constructed paragraph that covers all the various phonemes of a particular language or dialect so that it can learn to better understand what you're saying. This could be even more beneficial to those with speech impediments.
  • Reply 66 of 86
    sflagelsflagel Posts: 805member
    sflagel said:
    Soli said:
    sflagel said:
    As much as I would love to have a well-functioning Siri-based Echo competitor, the emphasis must be on "well-functioning"! and since Siri is the opposite of well-functioning, indeed it is just a dangerous time-wasting distraction, this can only be a catastrophe.
    Can you give me an example of of Siri's AI that makes you think a competitor to Amazon Echo or Google Home can't possibly be "well-functioning" and will only result in "catastrophe"?
    Examples: "schedule a meeting with my wife at 11 AM tomorrow" appears as "meeting" (instead of "meeting with your wife"). 

    Brian is a new prospect that I never met before who called me. I want to meet him tomorrow at 11 am. " set up a meeting about the widget with Brian tomorrow at 11 AM" - Siri asks "which Brian" and gives me a list of Brians in my Contacts but of course this Brian is not in my Contacts. This throws Siri off the deep end as I answer "none of these" (which is actually an option in the list Siri presented), Siri just keeps showing the same list and asking "which one" over and over again. 

    Asking on Friday morning "what is the weather like in North Norfolk " gives me the weather in Virginia, US although I am sitting in London, I have a Norfolk, England address in my Profile in Contacts as one of my home addresses, and the IPhone tracking shows that I spend almost every weekend there. 

    Not only does Siri not understand names very well, but if you ask to call someone, it often goes ahead with the call without checking. Try to have a friend called Jukub and your CEO called Jacob in your Contacts and call Jukub .... Siri calls the wrong person so many times, it has been quite embarrassing. 

    This is catastrophic. It's like a magic trick that bumbles. Sure, it does some simple things well, sometimes, if you use specific sentence structures, like setting a timer (but only one at a time....) or the alarm, but i just don't think that is very exciting. 

    I like Siri, as a UI for some simple tasks on Apple Apps, but it is not an "assistant". 

    An assistant would be able to to write a shopping list, and then allow me to interact with it, as in "Siri, I bought apples, kitchen paper, and asparagus, what else is on my list"? 

    As to AI, I think Apple is just at a major disadvantage because they don't have the web indexed like Gooogle.  Google will be able to answer a question like: how many tigers are still In India years before Apple because, well, that is what Google does and they have every webpage indexed, know readership of them, time of upload, know every web search ever done, etc. Apple is at least one step removed from the worlds data, if not more, and it will be difficult to close that gap. 
    Indexing the web has nothing to do with AI. The web is just a data vault for AI, like many other online and offline information sources. If you think that AI lives on the web, that is another and worse catastrophe. We like the idea of the web as the AI when novelized by British sci-fi author Stephen Baxter calling it "Aristo", but this is just a good fiction, not real life. The web is just an information junkyard that would destroy any intelligence relying uniquely on it. AI requires tailored and precise, filtered information.

    As for your nightmares with Siri, just report these to Apple on https://www.apple.com/feedback Reaching the same level of performance in all countries and languages Apple is present is not easy. I appreciate Apple's efforts to make multilingual /multi-country support a precedence on Siri instead of focusing on every slang of American streets.
    I would expect that Ali needs acces to the data vault, and be able to extract, combine, and make sense of the data in it to feed the AI. Intelligence needs data to process. 
  • Reply 67 of 86
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,879member
    sflagel said:
    Soli said:
    sflagel said:
    As much as I would love to have a well-functioning Siri-based Echo competitor, the emphasis must be on "well-functioning"! and since Siri is the opposite of well-functioning, indeed it is just a dangerous time-wasting distraction, this can only be a catastrophe.
    Can you give me an example of of Siri's AI that makes you think a competitor to Amazon Echo or Google Home can't possibly be "well-functioning" and will only result in "catastrophe"?
    Examples: "schedule a meeting with my wife at 11 AM tomorrow" appears as "meeting" (instead of "meeting with your wife"). 

    Brian is a new prospect that I never met before who called me. I want to meet him tomorrow at 11 am. " set up a meeting about the widget with Brian tomorrow at 11 AM" - Siri asks "which Brian" and gives me a list of Brians in my Contacts but of course this Brian is not in my Contacts. This throws Siri off the deep end as I answer "none of these" (which is actually an option in the list Siri presented), Siri just keeps showing the same list and asking "which one" over and over again. 
    This stuff is pretty annoying. I've noticed it with setting appointments. 
    patchythepirate
  • Reply 68 of 86
    xzuxzu Posts: 139member
    "How can I charge you too much for 5 year old graphics?"

    "Oh look another trashcan"

    "In eighteen months Apple will put out a computer with todays technology"
  • Reply 69 of 86
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,075member
    lkrupp said:
    So where did this rumor suddenly pop up from?
    Maybe they had to have something for the Dallas Mac Pro plant workers to do so they are using cases they couldn't sell.

    Looks like WWDC will have lots of Announcements: IPads, Apple TV, and SIRI Home.

    Maybe this is why we didn't see Apple TV yet - integration with SIRI Home Hub.

    It will be interesting to see if Apple releases a Kaby Lake update to The Mac Book with Touch Bar.
    (If they don't add the Touch Bar will it mean they have given up on Touch Bar).
  • Reply 70 of 86
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,417member
    sflagel said:
    Soli said:
    sflagel said:
    As much as I would love to have a well-functioning Siri-based Echo competitor, the emphasis must be on "well-functioning"! and since Siri is the opposite of well-functioning, indeed it is just a dangerous time-wasting distraction, this can only be a catastrophe.
    Can you give me an example of of Siri's AI that makes you think a competitor to Amazon Echo or Google Home can't possibly be "well-functioning" and will only result in "catastrophe"?
    Examples: "schedule a meeting with my wife at 11 AM tomorrow" appears as "meeting" (instead of "meeting with your wife"). 

    Brian is a new prospect that I never met before who called me. I want to meet him tomorrow at 11 am. " set up a meeting about the widget with Brian tomorrow at 11 AM" - Siri asks "which Brian" and gives me a list of Brians in my Contacts but of course this Brian is not in my Contacts. This throws Siri off the deep end as I answer "none of these" (which is actually an option in the list Siri presented), Siri just keeps showing the same list and asking "which one" over and over again. 

    Asking on Friday morning "what is the weather like in North Norfolk " gives me the weather in Virginia, US although I am sitting in London, I have a Norfolk, England address in my Profile in Contacts as one of my home addresses, and the IPhone tracking shows that I spend almost every weekend there. 

    Not only does Siri not understand names very well, but if you ask to call someone, it often goes ahead with the call without checking. Try to have a friend called Jukub and your CEO called Jacob in your Contacts and call Jukub .... Siri calls the wrong person so many times, it has been quite embarrassing. 

    This is catastrophic. It's like a magic trick that bumbles. Sure, it does some simple things well, sometimes, if you use specific sentence structures, like setting a timer (but only one at a time....) or the alarm, but i just don't think that is very exciting. 

    I like Siri, as a UI for some simple tasks on Apple Apps, but it is not an "assistant". 

    An assistant would be able to to write a shopping list, and then allow me to interact with it, as in "Siri, I bought apples, kitchen paper, and asparagus, what else is on my list"? 

    As to AI, I think Apple is just at a major disadvantage because they don't have the web indexed like Gooogle.  Google will be able to answer a question like: how many tigers are still In India years before Apple because, well, that is what Google does and they have every webpage indexed, know readership of them, time of upload, know every web search ever done, etc. Apple is at least one step removed from the worlds data, if not more, and it will be difficult to close that gap. 
    You're doing it wrong. 

    1) It's not supposed to say "meeting with my wife" — it will create "meeting" because you didn't give it a subject, and add your wife to the attendees list. If you said "Schedule a meeting with my wife 11am tomorrow about Siri problems", it will create a meeting with her as the attendee and give it a title of "Siri problems". If Siri doesn't know who your wife is, she'll ask and link a contact to that term for future use.

    2) Figure out how to ask it in a way it understands then. I just tried "What's the weather like in Norfolk England" and it did Virginia. But I tried again with "Norfolk UK" and it worked. So, modify your behavior slightly for now.

    3) Teach Siri! "Can I teach you how to pronounce Jukub" and she'll ask you to pronounce first and last names and give you options as to which of her pronunciations sound most correct. Alternately you can go to your Contact for Jukub and say "Can I teach you how to pronounce this". I would teach her both contacts as having different pronunciations, as well as their last names.

    4) Re: shopping list — "Siri, add coffee to Shopping list" and "Siri, remove coffee from Shopping list" and "Siri, read me my Shopping list" all work just fine. I don't think you can throw a list of items to delete all at once, so don't do that.


    Soli
  • Reply 71 of 86
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,289member
    I also use Siri everyday. Granted no virtual AI has a perfect voice filtering and neural network, hence in the environment where there are lots of background noise or when you talking unclearly, Siri would occasionally fail. But the rate this happened has been decreasing to single digit recent years. Granted, a proper multiple mics device would certainly help Siri picking up your commands (like Echo device). There are several interesting ideas from people here, like combining router (as a hub for constant internet connection to other devices), homekit control, Siri interface, high quality wireless speakers, AR, home entertainment centre, iDevices station (multiple chargers), Healthkit centre, and iBeacon into one device that can be the brain of your home automation system (in the future). Although it's unlikely Apple go for this kind of hybrid devices, this is getting interesting.
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 72 of 86
    sflagelsflagel Posts: 805member
    sflagel said:
    Soli said:
    sflagel said:
    As much as I would love to have a well-functioning Siri-based Echo competitor, the emphasis must be on "well-functioning"! and since Siri is the opposite of well-functioning, indeed it is just a dangerous time-wasting distraction, this can only be a catastrophe.
    Can you give me an example of of Siri's AI that makes you think a competitor to Amazon Echo or Google Home can't possibly be "well-functioning" and will only result in "catastrophe"?
    Examples: "schedule a meeting with my wife at 11 AM tomorrow" appears as "meeting" (instead of "meeting with your wife"). 

    Brian is a new prospect that I never met before who called me. I want to meet him tomorrow at 11 am. " set up a meeting about the widget with Brian tomorrow at 11 AM" - Siri asks "which Brian" and gives me a list of Brians in my Contacts but of course this Brian is not in my Contacts. This throws Siri off the deep end as I answer "none of these" (which is actually an option in the list Siri presented), Siri just keeps showing the same list and asking "which one" over and over again. 

    Asking on Friday morning "what is the weather like in North Norfolk " gives me the weather in Virginia, US although I am sitting in London, I have a Norfolk, England address in my Profile in Contacts as one of my home addresses, and the IPhone tracking shows that I spend almost every weekend there. 

    Not only does Siri not understand names very well, but if you ask to call someone, it often goes ahead with the call without checking. Try to have a friend called Jukub and your CEO called Jacob in your Contacts and call Jukub .... Siri calls the wrong person so many times, it has been quite embarrassing. 

    This is catastrophic. It's like a magic trick that bumbles. Sure, it does some simple things well, sometimes, if you use specific sentence structures, like setting a timer (but only one at a time....) or the alarm, but i just don't think that is very exciting. 

    I like Siri, as a UI for some simple tasks on Apple Apps, but it is not an "assistant". 

    An assistant would be able to to write a shopping list, and then allow me to interact with it, as in "Siri, I bought apples, kitchen paper, and asparagus, what else is on my list"? 

    As to AI, I think Apple is just at a major disadvantage because they don't have the web indexed like Gooogle.  Google will be able to answer a question like: how many tigers are still In India years before Apple because, well, that is what Google does and they have every webpage indexed, know readership of them, time of upload, know every web search ever done, etc. Apple is at least one step removed from the worlds data, if not more, and it will be difficult to close that gap. 
    You're doing it wrong. 

    1) It's not supposed to say "meeting with my wife" — it will create "meeting" because you didn't give it a subject, and add your wife to the attendees list. If you said "Schedule a meeting with my wife 11am tomorrow about Siri problems", it will create a meeting with her as the attendee and give it a title of "Siri problems". If Siri doesn't know who your wife is, she'll ask and link a contact to that term for future use.

    2) Figure out how to ask it in a way it understands then. I just tried "What's the weather like in Norfolk England" and it did Virginia. But I tried again with "Norfolk UK" and it worked. So, modify your behavior slightly for now.

    3) Teach Siri! "Can I teach you how to pronounce Jukub" and she'll ask you to pronounce first and last names and give you options as to which of her pronunciations sound most correct. Alternately you can go to your Contact for Jukub and say "Can I teach you how to pronounce this". I would teach her both contacts as having different pronunciations, as well as their last names.

    4) Re: shopping list — "Siri, add coffee to Shopping list" and "Siri, remove coffee from Shopping list" and "Siri, read me my Shopping list" all work just fine. I don't think you can throw a list of items to delete all at once, so don't do that.


    This is really helpful. Thank you.

    (although I would prefer of the programmers at Apple modified Siri's behaviours)

    ...., but this will work for now, thank you much!
    fastasleep
  • Reply 73 of 86
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    sflagel said:
    Soli said:
    sflagel said:
    As much as I would love to have a well-functioning Siri-based Echo competitor, the emphasis must be on "well-functioning"! and since Siri is the opposite of well-functioning, indeed it is just a dangerous time-wasting distraction, this can only be a catastrophe.
    Can you give me an example of of Siri's AI that makes you think a competitor to Amazon Echo or Google Home can't possibly be "well-functioning" and will only result in "catastrophe"?
    Examples: "schedule a meeting with my wife at 11 AM tomorrow" appears as "meeting" (instead of "meeting with your wife"). 

    Brian is a new prospect that I never met before who called me. I want to meet him tomorrow at 11 am. " set up a meeting about the widget with Brian tomorrow at 11 AM" - Siri asks "which Brian" and gives me a list of Brians in my Contacts but of course this Brian is not in my Contacts. This throws Siri off the deep end as I answer "none of these" (which is actually an option in the list Siri presented), Siri just keeps showing the same list and asking "which one" over and over again. 

    Asking on Friday morning "what is the weather like in North Norfolk " gives me the weather in Virginia, US although I am sitting in London, I have a Norfolk, England address in my Profile in Contacts as one of my home addresses, and the IPhone tracking shows that I spend almost every weekend there. 

    Not only does Siri not understand names very well, but if you ask to call someone, it often goes ahead with the call without checking. Try to have a friend called Jukub and your CEO called Jacob in your Contacts and call Jukub .... Siri calls the wrong person so many times, it has been quite embarrassing. 

    This is catastrophic. It's like a magic trick that bumbles. Sure, it does some simple things well, sometimes, if you use specific sentence structures, like setting a timer (but only one at a time....) or the alarm, but i just don't think that is very exciting. 

    I like Siri, as a UI for some simple tasks on Apple Apps, but it is not an "assistant". 

    An assistant would be able to to write a shopping list, and then allow me to interact with it, as in "Siri, I bought apples, kitchen paper, and asparagus, what else is on my list"? 

    As to AI, I think Apple is just at a major disadvantage because they don't have the web indexed like Gooogle.  Google will be able to answer a question like: how many tigers are still In India years before Apple because, well, that is what Google does and they have every webpage indexed, know readership of them, time of upload, know every web search ever done, etc. Apple is at least one step removed from the worlds data, if not more, and it will be difficult to close that gap. 
    You're doing it wrong. 

    1) It's not supposed to say "meeting with my wife" — it will create "meeting" because you didn't give it a subject, and add your wife to the attendees list. If you said "Schedule a meeting with my wife 11am tomorrow about Siri problems", it will create a meeting with her as the attendee and give it a title of "Siri problems". If Siri doesn't know who your wife is, she'll ask and link a contact to that term for future use.

    2) Figure out how to ask it in a way it understands then. I just tried "What's the weather like in Norfolk England" and it did Virginia. But I tried again with "Norfolk UK" and it worked. So, modify your behavior slightly for now.

    3) Teach Siri! "Can I teach you how to pronounce Jukub" and she'll ask you to pronounce first and last names and give you options as to which of her pronunciations sound most correct. Alternately you can go to your Contact for Jukub and say "Can I teach you how to pronounce this". I would teach her both contacts as having different pronunciations, as well as their last names.

    4) Re: shopping list — "Siri, add coffee to Shopping list" and "Siri, remove coffee from Shopping list" and "Siri, read me my Shopping list" all work just fine. I don't think you can throw a list of items to delete all at once, so don't do that.


    IMO an effective "personal assistant" shouldn't need such precise phrasing to understand your request. I think that's the type of improvement that other posters in this thread are hoping for if/when this device rolls out. With the meeting issue specifically some other personal assistant apps properly log "Meeting with wife" when the OP's original phrasing is used for the request. It's not the OP doing it wrong, it's the app not yet working as well as it should. 
    sflagel
  • Reply 74 of 86
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    gatorguy said:
    sflagel said:
    Soli said:
    sflagel said:
    As much as I would love to have a well-functioning Siri-based Echo competitor, the emphasis must be on "well-functioning"! and since Siri is the opposite of well-functioning, indeed it is just a dangerous time-wasting distraction, this can only be a catastrophe.
    Can you give me an example of of Siri's AI that makes you think a competitor to Amazon Echo or Google Home can't possibly be "well-functioning" and will only result in "catastrophe"?
    Examples: "schedule a meeting with my wife at 11 AM tomorrow" appears as "meeting" (instead of "meeting with your wife"). 

    Brian is a new prospect that I never met before who called me. I want to meet him tomorrow at 11 am. " set up a meeting about the widget with Brian tomorrow at 11 AM" - Siri asks "which Brian" and gives me a list of Brians in my Contacts but of course this Brian is not in my Contacts. This throws Siri off the deep end as I answer "none of these" (which is actually an option in the list Siri presented), Siri just keeps showing the same list and asking "which one" over and over again. 

    Asking on Friday morning "what is the weather like in North Norfolk " gives me the weather in Virginia, US although I am sitting in London, I have a Norfolk, England address in my Profile in Contacts as one of my home addresses, and the IPhone tracking shows that I spend almost every weekend there. 

    Not only does Siri not understand names very well, but if you ask to call someone, it often goes ahead with the call without checking. Try to have a friend called Jukub and your CEO called Jacob in your Contacts and call Jukub .... Siri calls the wrong person so many times, it has been quite embarrassing. 

    This is catastrophic. It's like a magic trick that bumbles. Sure, it does some simple things well, sometimes, if you use specific sentence structures, like setting a timer (but only one at a time....) or the alarm, but i just don't think that is very exciting. 

    I like Siri, as a UI for some simple tasks on Apple Apps, but it is not an "assistant". 

    An assistant would be able to to write a shopping list, and then allow me to interact with it, as in "Siri, I bought apples, kitchen paper, and asparagus, what else is on my list"? 

    As to AI, I think Apple is just at a major disadvantage because they don't have the web indexed like Gooogle.  Google will be able to answer a question like: how many tigers are still In India years before Apple because, well, that is what Google does and they have every webpage indexed, know readership of them, time of upload, know every web search ever done, etc. Apple is at least one step removed from the worlds data, if not more, and it will be difficult to close that gap. 
    You're doing it wrong. 

    1) It's not supposed to say "meeting with my wife" — it will create "meeting" because you didn't give it a subject, and add your wife to the attendees list. If you said "Schedule a meeting with my wife 11am tomorrow about Siri problems", it will create a meeting with her as the attendee and give it a title of "Siri problems". If Siri doesn't know who your wife is, she'll ask and link a contact to that term for future use.

    2) Figure out how to ask it in a way it understands then. I just tried "What's the weather like in Norfolk England" and it did Virginia. But I tried again with "Norfolk UK" and it worked. So, modify your behavior slightly for now.

    3) Teach Siri! "Can I teach you how to pronounce Jukub" and she'll ask you to pronounce first and last names and give you options as to which of her pronunciations sound most correct. Alternately you can go to your Contact for Jukub and say "Can I teach you how to pronounce this". I would teach her both contacts as having different pronunciations, as well as their last names.

    4) Re: shopping list — "Siri, add coffee to Shopping list" and "Siri, remove coffee from Shopping list" and "Siri, read me my Shopping list" all work just fine. I don't think you can throw a list of items to delete all at once, so don't do that.


    IMO an effective "personal assistant" shouldn't need such precise phrasing to understand your request. I think that's the type of improvement that other posters in this thread are hoping for if/when this device rolls out. With the meeting issue specifically some other personal assistant apps properly log "Meeting with wife" when the OP's original phrasing is used for the request. It's not the OP doing it wrong, it's the app not yet working as well as it should. 
    I think the OP's statement is incomplete. Human languages and the way human's interact are inherently flawed. While we can build machines to be better to expect that the human element isn't responsible for what they say is not a viable argument.

    Let's not turn everything into a Three's Company episode. We see it on this semi-technical forum every day—someone makes a poorly thought out comment, someone responds to it after scratching their head, and then that person comes back with "that's not what I meant," when they couldn't spend a few extra seconds to clearly, elaborate, and remove ambiguity from their statement. We're all guilty of this no matter how hard some of try to be clear.

    This is why sflagel's statement about a meeting titled "Brian" for a person not yet in his contacts ultimately falls on him. He's responsible for his audience, which in this case is Siri, and since we know that Siri isn't set up for asking "Which Brian?" and then allowing you to say "None of them" and then asking "Would you like me to set up a meeting titled Brian?" we can't blame the limitation on the product no more than I can blame my car for not being a Leer jet.
  • Reply 75 of 86
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    sflagel said:
    Soli said:
    sflagel said:
    As much as I would love to have a well-functioning Siri-based Echo competitor, the emphasis must be on "well-functioning"! and since Siri is the opposite of well-functioning, indeed it is just a dangerous time-wasting distraction, this can only be a catastrophe.
    Can you give me an example of of Siri's AI that makes you think a competitor to Amazon Echo or Google Home can't possibly be "well-functioning" and will only result in "catastrophe"?
    Examples: "schedule a meeting with my wife at 11 AM tomorrow" appears as "meeting" (instead of "meeting with your wife"). 

    Brian is a new prospect that I never met before who called me. I want to meet him tomorrow at 11 am. " set up a meeting about the widget with Brian tomorrow at 11 AM" - Siri asks "which Brian" and gives me a list of Brians in my Contacts but of course this Brian is not in my Contacts. This throws Siri off the deep end as I answer "none of these" (which is actually an option in the list Siri presented), Siri just keeps showing the same list and asking "which one" over and over again. 

    Asking on Friday morning "what is the weather like in North Norfolk " gives me the weather in Virginia, US although I am sitting in London, I have a Norfolk, England address in my Profile in Contacts as one of my home addresses, and the IPhone tracking shows that I spend almost every weekend there. 

    Not only does Siri not understand names very well, but if you ask to call someone, it often goes ahead with the call without checking. Try to have a friend called Jukub and your CEO called Jacob in your Contacts and call Jukub .... Siri calls the wrong person so many times, it has been quite embarrassing. 

    This is catastrophic. It's like a magic trick that bumbles. Sure, it does some simple things well, sometimes, if you use specific sentence structures, like setting a timer (but only one at a time....) or the alarm, but i just don't think that is very exciting. 

    I like Siri, as a UI for some simple tasks on Apple Apps, but it is not an "assistant". 

    An assistant would be able to to write a shopping list, and then allow me to interact with it, as in "Siri, I bought apples, kitchen paper, and asparagus, what else is on my list"? 

    As to AI, I think Apple is just at a major disadvantage because they don't have the web indexed like Gooogle.  Google will be able to answer a question like: how many tigers are still In India years before Apple because, well, that is what Google does and they have every webpage indexed, know readership of them, time of upload, know every web search ever done, etc. Apple is at least one step removed from the worlds data, if not more, and it will be difficult to close that gap. 
    You're doing it wrong. 

    1) It's not supposed to say "meeting with my wife" — it will create "meeting" because you didn't give it a subject, and add your wife to the attendees list. If you said "Schedule a meeting with my wife 11am tomorrow about Siri problems", it will create a meeting with her as the attendee and give it a title of "Siri problems". If Siri doesn't know who your wife is, she'll ask and link a contact to that term for future use.

    2) Figure out how to ask it in a way it understands then. I just tried "What's the weather like in Norfolk England" and it did Virginia. But I tried again with "Norfolk UK" and it worked. So, modify your behavior slightly for now.

    3) Teach Siri! "Can I teach you how to pronounce Jukub" and she'll ask you to pronounce first and last names and give you options as to which of her pronunciations sound most correct. Alternately you can go to your Contact for Jukub and say "Can I teach you how to pronounce this". I would teach her both contacts as having different pronunciations, as well as their last names.

    4) Re: shopping list — "Siri, add coffee to Shopping list" and "Siri, remove coffee from Shopping list" and "Siri, read me my Shopping list" all work just fine. I don't think you can throw a list of items to delete all at once, so don't do that.


    IMO an effective "personal assistant" shouldn't need such precise phrasing to understand your request. I think that's the type of improvement that other posters in this thread are hoping for if/when this device rolls out. With the meeting issue specifically some other personal assistant apps properly log "Meeting with wife" when the OP's original phrasing is used for the request. It's not the OP doing it wrong, it's the app not yet working as well as it should. 
    I think the OP's statement is incomplete. Human languages and the way human's interact are inherently flawed. While we can build machines to be better to expect that the human element isn't responsible for what they say is not a viable argument.

    Let's not turn everything into a Three's Company episode. We see it on this semi-technical forum every day—someone makes a poorly thought out comment, someone responds to it after scratching their head, and then that person comes back with "that's not what I meant," when they couldn't spend a few extra seconds to clearly, elaborate, and remove ambiguity from their statement. We're all guilty of this no matter how hard some of try to be clear.

    This is why sflagel's statement about a meeting titled "Brian" for a person not yet in his contacts ultimately falls on him. He's responsible for his audience, which in this case is Siri, and since we know that Siri isn't set up for asking "Which Brian?" and then allowing you to say "None of them" and then asking "Would you like me to set up a meeting titled Brian?" we can't blame the limitation on the product no more than I can blame my car for not being a Leer jet.
    I don't have "wife" in my contacts, yet making the same request with a different assistant give me a calendar appointing that says "Meeting with Wife". Doing the same with "Brian" and 'Police Chief" also works, and neither of those are there either. But yes, there are certainly requests/comments/posts that initially are far from clear and additional input is needed. Still making a calendar entry for "meeting with Brian" should not need "Brian" to be in your contacts, at least in my opinion.

     Anyway, no need for me to belabor the point, just noting that more natural understanding of user requests will be a good thing when it doesn't require time-wasting multiple attempts or precise phrasing for success. Our smart devices are supposed to make common stuff that we traditionally hand-entered faster instead of more tedious. 
  • Reply 76 of 86
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,417member
    gatorguy said:
    sflagel said:
    Soli said:
    sflagel said:
    As much as I would love to have a well-functioning Siri-based Echo competitor, the emphasis must be on "well-functioning"! and since Siri is the opposite of well-functioning, indeed it is just a dangerous time-wasting distraction, this can only be a catastrophe.
    Can you give me an example of of Siri's AI that makes you think a competitor to Amazon Echo or Google Home can't possibly be "well-functioning" and will only result in "catastrophe"?
    Examples: "schedule a meeting with my wife at 11 AM tomorrow" appears as "meeting" (instead of "meeting with your wife"). 

    Brian is a new prospect that I never met before who called me. I want to meet him tomorrow at 11 am. " set up a meeting about the widget with Brian tomorrow at 11 AM" - Siri asks "which Brian" and gives me a list of Brians in my Contacts but of course this Brian is not in my Contacts. This throws Siri off the deep end as I answer "none of these" (which is actually an option in the list Siri presented), Siri just keeps showing the same list and asking "which one" over and over again. 

    Asking on Friday morning "what is the weather like in North Norfolk " gives me the weather in Virginia, US although I am sitting in London, I have a Norfolk, England address in my Profile in Contacts as one of my home addresses, and the IPhone tracking shows that I spend almost every weekend there. 

    Not only does Siri not understand names very well, but if you ask to call someone, it often goes ahead with the call without checking. Try to have a friend called Jukub and your CEO called Jacob in your Contacts and call Jukub .... Siri calls the wrong person so many times, it has been quite embarrassing. 

    This is catastrophic. It's like a magic trick that bumbles. Sure, it does some simple things well, sometimes, if you use specific sentence structures, like setting a timer (but only one at a time....) or the alarm, but i just don't think that is very exciting. 

    I like Siri, as a UI for some simple tasks on Apple Apps, but it is not an "assistant". 

    An assistant would be able to to write a shopping list, and then allow me to interact with it, as in "Siri, I bought apples, kitchen paper, and asparagus, what else is on my list"? 

    As to AI, I think Apple is just at a major disadvantage because they don't have the web indexed like Gooogle.  Google will be able to answer a question like: how many tigers are still In India years before Apple because, well, that is what Google does and they have every webpage indexed, know readership of them, time of upload, know every web search ever done, etc. Apple is at least one step removed from the worlds data, if not more, and it will be difficult to close that gap. 
    You're doing it wrong. 

    1) It's not supposed to say "meeting with my wife" — it will create "meeting" because you didn't give it a subject, and add your wife to the attendees list. If you said "Schedule a meeting with my wife 11am tomorrow about Siri problems", it will create a meeting with her as the attendee and give it a title of "Siri problems". If Siri doesn't know who your wife is, she'll ask and link a contact to that term for future use.

    2) Figure out how to ask it in a way it understands then. I just tried "What's the weather like in Norfolk England" and it did Virginia. But I tried again with "Norfolk UK" and it worked. So, modify your behavior slightly for now.

    3) Teach Siri! "Can I teach you how to pronounce Jukub" and she'll ask you to pronounce first and last names and give you options as to which of her pronunciations sound most correct. Alternately you can go to your Contact for Jukub and say "Can I teach you how to pronounce this". I would teach her both contacts as having different pronunciations, as well as their last names.

    4) Re: shopping list — "Siri, add coffee to Shopping list" and "Siri, remove coffee from Shopping list" and "Siri, read me my Shopping list" all work just fine. I don't think you can throw a list of items to delete all at once, so don't do that.


    IMO an effective "personal assistant" shouldn't need such precise phrasing to understand your request. I think that's the type of improvement that other posters in this thread are hoping for if/when this device rolls out. With the meeting issue specifically some other personal assistant apps properly log "Meeting with wife" when the OP's original phrasing is used for the request. It's not the OP doing it wrong, it's the app not yet working as well as it should. 
    By "doing it wrong" I meant also expecting a different result. The result was correct - it created a meeting with no other title as it wasn't given one, and added his wife as an attendee, which he didn't seem to realize as he claimed incorrectly that it was ignoring the "with my wife" part of the request. So in that regard, it worked exactly as it should. 

    Your opinion of how advanced natural language recognition should be at this point has nothing to do with reality. I want Siri to remember everything I forget, but that's not happening anytime soon. :)

  • Reply 77 of 86
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,417member

    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    sflagel said:
    Soli said:
    sflagel said:
    As much as I would love to have a well-functioning Siri-based Echo competitor, the emphasis must be on "well-functioning"! and since Siri is the opposite of well-functioning, indeed it is just a dangerous time-wasting distraction, this can only be a catastrophe.
    Can you give me an example of of Siri's AI that makes you think a competitor to Amazon Echo or Google Home can't possibly be "well-functioning" and will only result in "catastrophe"?
    Examples: "schedule a meeting with my wife at 11 AM tomorrow" appears as "meeting" (instead of "meeting with your wife"). 

    Brian is a new prospect that I never met before who called me. I want to meet him tomorrow at 11 am. " set up a meeting about the widget with Brian tomorrow at 11 AM" - Siri asks "which Brian" and gives me a list of Brians in my Contacts but of course this Brian is not in my Contacts. This throws Siri off the deep end as I answer "none of these" (which is actually an option in the list Siri presented), Siri just keeps showing the same list and asking "which one" over and over again. 

    Asking on Friday morning "what is the weather like in North Norfolk " gives me the weather in Virginia, US although I am sitting in London, I have a Norfolk, England address in my Profile in Contacts as one of my home addresses, and the IPhone tracking shows that I spend almost every weekend there. 

    Not only does Siri not understand names very well, but if you ask to call someone, it often goes ahead with the call without checking. Try to have a friend called Jukub and your CEO called Jacob in your Contacts and call Jukub .... Siri calls the wrong person so many times, it has been quite embarrassing. 

    This is catastrophic. It's like a magic trick that bumbles. Sure, it does some simple things well, sometimes, if you use specific sentence structures, like setting a timer (but only one at a time....) or the alarm, but i just don't think that is very exciting. 

    I like Siri, as a UI for some simple tasks on Apple Apps, but it is not an "assistant". 

    An assistant would be able to to write a shopping list, and then allow me to interact with it, as in "Siri, I bought apples, kitchen paper, and asparagus, what else is on my list"? 

    As to AI, I think Apple is just at a major disadvantage because they don't have the web indexed like Gooogle.  Google will be able to answer a question like: how many tigers are still In India years before Apple because, well, that is what Google does and they have every webpage indexed, know readership of them, time of upload, know every web search ever done, etc. Apple is at least one step removed from the worlds data, if not more, and it will be difficult to close that gap. 
    You're doing it wrong. 

    1) It's not supposed to say "meeting with my wife" — it will create "meeting" because you didn't give it a subject, and add your wife to the attendees list. If you said "Schedule a meeting with my wife 11am tomorrow about Siri problems", it will create a meeting with her as the attendee and give it a title of "Siri problems". If Siri doesn't know who your wife is, she'll ask and link a contact to that term for future use.

    2) Figure out how to ask it in a way it understands then. I just tried "What's the weather like in Norfolk England" and it did Virginia. But I tried again with "Norfolk UK" and it worked. So, modify your behavior slightly for now.

    3) Teach Siri! "Can I teach you how to pronounce Jukub" and she'll ask you to pronounce first and last names and give you options as to which of her pronunciations sound most correct. Alternately you can go to your Contact for Jukub and say "Can I teach you how to pronounce this". I would teach her both contacts as having different pronunciations, as well as their last names.

    4) Re: shopping list — "Siri, add coffee to Shopping list" and "Siri, remove coffee from Shopping list" and "Siri, read me my Shopping list" all work just fine. I don't think you can throw a list of items to delete all at once, so don't do that.


    IMO an effective "personal assistant" shouldn't need such precise phrasing to understand your request. I think that's the type of improvement that other posters in this thread are hoping for if/when this device rolls out. With the meeting issue specifically some other personal assistant apps properly log "Meeting with wife" when the OP's original phrasing is used for the request. It's not the OP doing it wrong, it's the app not yet working as well as it should. 

    This is why sflagel's statement about a meeting titled "Brian" for a person not yet in his contacts ultimately falls on him. He's responsible for his audience, which in this case is Siri, and since we know that Siri isn't set up for asking "Which Brian?" and then allowing you to say "None of them" and then asking "Would you like me to set up a meeting titled Brian?" we can't blame the limitation on the product no more than I can blame my car for not being a Leer jet.
    Or alternately — you'd first go to the number in your phone call list, create a new Contact for Brian using that number, then set up your appointment. How would Siri ever know you're talking about someone you have no record of in your phone? It's perfectly reasonable to assume it will look for a person in your Contacts. 
  • Reply 78 of 86
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,417member

    gatorguy said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    sflagel said:
    Soli said:
    sflagel said:
    As much as I would love to have a well-functioning Siri-based Echo competitor, the emphasis must be on "well-functioning"! and since Siri is the opposite of well-functioning, indeed it is just a dangerous time-wasting distraction, this can only be a catastrophe.
    Can you give me an example of of Siri's AI that makes you think a competitor to Amazon Echo or Google Home can't possibly be "well-functioning" and will only result in "catastrophe"?
    Examples: "schedule a meeting with my wife at 11 AM tomorrow" appears as "meeting" (instead of "meeting with your wife"). 

    Brian is a new prospect that I never met before who called me. I want to meet him tomorrow at 11 am. " set up a meeting about the widget with Brian tomorrow at 11 AM" - Siri asks "which Brian" and gives me a list of Brians in my Contacts but of course this Brian is not in my Contacts. This throws Siri off the deep end as I answer "none of these" (which is actually an option in the list Siri presented), Siri just keeps showing the same list and asking "which one" over and over again. 

    Asking on Friday morning "what is the weather like in North Norfolk " gives me the weather in Virginia, US although I am sitting in London, I have a Norfolk, England address in my Profile in Contacts as one of my home addresses, and the IPhone tracking shows that I spend almost every weekend there. 

    Not only does Siri not understand names very well, but if you ask to call someone, it often goes ahead with the call without checking. Try to have a friend called Jukub and your CEO called Jacob in your Contacts and call Jukub .... Siri calls the wrong person so many times, it has been quite embarrassing. 

    This is catastrophic. It's like a magic trick that bumbles. Sure, it does some simple things well, sometimes, if you use specific sentence structures, like setting a timer (but only one at a time....) or the alarm, but i just don't think that is very exciting. 

    I like Siri, as a UI for some simple tasks on Apple Apps, but it is not an "assistant". 

    An assistant would be able to to write a shopping list, and then allow me to interact with it, as in "Siri, I bought apples, kitchen paper, and asparagus, what else is on my list"? 

    As to AI, I think Apple is just at a major disadvantage because they don't have the web indexed like Gooogle.  Google will be able to answer a question like: how many tigers are still In India years before Apple because, well, that is what Google does and they have every webpage indexed, know readership of them, time of upload, know every web search ever done, etc. Apple is at least one step removed from the worlds data, if not more, and it will be difficult to close that gap. 
    You're doing it wrong. 

    1) It's not supposed to say "meeting with my wife" — it will create "meeting" because you didn't give it a subject, and add your wife to the attendees list. If you said "Schedule a meeting with my wife 11am tomorrow about Siri problems", it will create a meeting with her as the attendee and give it a title of "Siri problems". If Siri doesn't know who your wife is, she'll ask and link a contact to that term for future use.

    2) Figure out how to ask it in a way it understands then. I just tried "What's the weather like in Norfolk England" and it did Virginia. But I tried again with "Norfolk UK" and it worked. So, modify your behavior slightly for now.

    3) Teach Siri! "Can I teach you how to pronounce Jukub" and she'll ask you to pronounce first and last names and give you options as to which of her pronunciations sound most correct. Alternately you can go to your Contact for Jukub and say "Can I teach you how to pronounce this". I would teach her both contacts as having different pronunciations, as well as their last names.

    4) Re: shopping list — "Siri, add coffee to Shopping list" and "Siri, remove coffee from Shopping list" and "Siri, read me my Shopping list" all work just fine. I don't think you can throw a list of items to delete all at once, so don't do that.


    IMO an effective "personal assistant" shouldn't need such precise phrasing to understand your request. I think that's the type of improvement that other posters in this thread are hoping for if/when this device rolls out. With the meeting issue specifically some other personal assistant apps properly log "Meeting with wife" when the OP's original phrasing is used for the request. It's not the OP doing it wrong, it's the app not yet working as well as it should. 
    I think the OP's statement is incomplete. Human languages and the way human's interact are inherently flawed. While we can build machines to be better to expect that the human element isn't responsible for what they say is not a viable argument.

    Let's not turn everything into a Three's Company episode. We see it on this semi-technical forum every day—someone makes a poorly thought out comment, someone responds to it after scratching their head, and then that person comes back with "that's not what I meant," when they couldn't spend a few extra seconds to clearly, elaborate, and remove ambiguity from their statement. We're all guilty of this no matter how hard some of try to be clear.

    This is why sflagel's statement about a meeting titled "Brian" for a person not yet in his contacts ultimately falls on him. He's responsible for his audience, which in this case is Siri, and since we know that Siri isn't set up for asking "Which Brian?" and then allowing you to say "None of them" and then asking "Would you like me to set up a meeting titled Brian?" we can't blame the limitation on the product no more than I can blame my car for not being a Leer jet.
    I don't have "wife" in my contacts, yet making the same request with a different assistant give me a calendar appointing that says "Meeting with Wife". Doing the same with "Brian" and 'Police Chief" also works, and neither of those are there either. But yes, there are certainly requests/comments/posts that initially are far from clear and additional input is needed. Still making a calendar entry for "meeting with Brian" should not need "Brian" to be in your contacts, at least in my opinion.

     Anyway, no need for me to belabor the point, just noting that more natural understanding of user requests will be a good thing when it doesn't require time-wasting multiple attempts or precise phrasing for success. Our smart devices are supposed to make common stuff that we traditionally hand-entered faster instead of more tedious. 
    Look at it from another perspective: Siri is smart enough to ask who your wife is, so it will know who that person is in the future, and when it does set up the appointment, it will be able to add her as an attendee and she'll recieve an invite for the Calendar event. 

    Meanwhile, I just asked Siri to "set an apppojntment with the police chief tomorrow morning 9am" and it created an event at 9am titled "police chief", so not sure what you're on about there. 

    I am seeing some issues with handling multiple contacts with the same first or last name though I'm a few experiments I just did, where the behavior was unexpected. I think though that it's important to keep actual bugs or poor behavior separate from unreasonable expectations. 
  • Reply 79 of 86
    lorin schultzlorin schultz Posts: 2,771member
    I like the Mac Pro. The cylindrical design allowed for a really imaginative cooling system that makes the thing really, really quiet. It may have been a mistake to expect the market to recognize the benefits of a new, much more flexible and logical core-satellite paradigm, but I certainly wouldn't call it embarrassing.
    The market still wants part swapping. I wouldn’t mind seeing a (shorter) cylinder as the new Mac Mini (and could we get it back to $499, please, Apple?).
    Parts swapping is really, really easy with the Mac Pro. Want more storage? Plug in an external drive to any of the many, many ports! :) More RAM? Lift the lid and pop it in.

    The only hold-up is peripheral manufacturers who still insist on making PCIe cards instead of little boxes with Thunderbolt or USB3 connectors on them.
  • Reply 80 of 86
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    The only hold-up is peripheral manufacturers who still insist on making PCIe cards instead of little boxes with Thunderbolt or USB3 connectors on them.
    PCIe 3.0 has faster throughput than Thunderbolt 3. Absolutely no one is going to completely redo their part standards just because of Apple. You’re not going to get rid of PCIe for a long time–and not going to get rid of internal ports ever–so it’s entirely on Apple to tell their customers that worse bandwidth and cobbled together systems are better (could’ve sworn they were against that…)


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