Apple officially announces June 5 WWDC keynote via media invitations

13»

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 57
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,289member
    jfdesigns said:

    Tim Cook is desperately trying to invoke Steve Jobs out of his grave to return and save Apple again from corporatisis and eat the brains of their design dead. 

    Sounds like MCR poster is on holy mission invading AI forums.
  • Reply 42 of 57
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,289member
    macapfel said:

    macapfel said:
    The problem with this announcement is: it sounds as if Apple is seeking inspiration from the developer community. Usually, Apple is the source of inspiration. Not the other way round.
    Citation needed. 
    "talents to help us change the world" – it says on the invitation. Or in brief: "help us, talents"
    Did you purposely miss the words "change the world"? Because in this context, that is the main point: help us, talents, to change the world. Apple is not an isolated company that can change the world by themselves.
    watto_cobraStrangeDays
  • Reply 43 of 57
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,402member
    Soli said:
    Soli said:

    MARM - Mac on ARM.  This is the Apple vision of the netcentric Chromebook like product.   
    This already exists, it's an ipad. Apple's less-functional netbook device is an ipad. 
    He means macOS on ARM, not OS X.
    Yes I still like my iOS products but a web centric device is more about leveraging web technologies and maintaining a lightweight footprint.  
    There's this weird notion that the Mac can't be powerful and use an ARM processor without being forced to use iOS and a touchscreen UI. I don't understand why this rigid mindset exists, especially for the one company that has converted their desktop OS many times over, but it does.
    ARM to me represents the ability for Apple to have a lineup of computers where they essentially design the whole shebang and rather than all day battery they could usher in devices that run a full OS that last for days
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 57
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,289member
    Soli said:
    Soli said:

    MARM - Mac on ARM.  This is the Apple vision of the netcentric Chromebook like product.   
    This already exists, it's an ipad. Apple's less-functional netbook device is an ipad. 
    He means macOS on ARM, not OS X.
    Yes I still like my iOS products but a web centric device is more about leveraging web technologies and maintaining a lightweight footprint.  
    There's this weird notion that the Mac can't be powerful and use an ARM processor without being forced to use iOS and a touchscreen UI. I don't understand why this rigid mindset exists, especially for the one company that has converted their desktop OS many times over, but it does.
    ARM to me represents the ability for Apple to have a lineup of computers where they essentially design the whole shebang and rather than all day battery they could usher in devices that run a full OS that last for days
    I suspect it's in pipeline, but they eventually encountered problems that need ironing out. I don't have prove, just common sense.
  • Reply 45 of 57
    mejsricmejsric Posts: 152member
    Please bring back the down votes, btw I don't like the like button here, i don't know if I already like it.
    Soliwatto_cobratallest skilStrangeDaysfastasleep
  • Reply 46 of 57
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,394member
    bdkennedy said:
    These invites really haven't been clever since Steve died. They're boring.
    You're boring.
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 47 of 57
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    Soli said:
    Yes I still like my iOS products but a web centric device is more about leveraging web technologies and maintaining a lightweight footprint.  
    There's this weird notion that the Mac can't be powerful and use an ARM processor without being forced to use iOS and a touchscreen UI. I don't understand why this rigid mindset exists, especially for the one company that has converted their desktop OS many times over, but it does.
    Because ARM doesn't enjoy any magic IPC advantage over X86 and hasn't yet been scaled to Core i7 performance in production chips.  It's still in Core M territory and when it gets to Core i7 territory it will have the same general TDP as x86. 

    At 15W TDP on the 6660U (skylake) the primary difference is cost and backward compatibility with the existing software.  While the transition to Intel went as smoothly as could be hoped it still wasn't painless and both developers and users incurred cost. 

    There is no reason you can't run MacOS on ARM except it would cause the same confusion that the ARM based Surface tablets caused. 
  • Reply 48 of 57
    boboliciousbobolicious Posts: 1,134member
    nht said:
    nht said:
     Will we get the option to change speed and size of drives and ram as needs might change, and that a cadre of easily lost and clunky dongles will be phased out...? ...
    Effing tired of this whine.  By moving to USB-C they just replaced the dongles on the 2015 MBP to a single 2.6"x2.6"x0.66" USB-C adapter with ethernet, hdmi, vga and usb 3.0 for $60 or a full fledged TB3 dock requiring only a single cable connection to attach to everything on your desktop.

    Get over it.
    ...how does such an adapter connect to an LED Cinema Display, or target display iMac, or displayport monitor - we know how well the LG monitors rolled out, assuming we should all be willing to go out and roll over perfectly good (arguably better) existing monitors...

    For display port you buy a different adapter that has DP rather than HDMI.  There are a half dozen USB-C docks with DP.  Most more than $60 but fairly compact.
    So be tired of the whine, but please get your facts and suggestions straight too...
    ...the OWC dock still seems in preorder stage: https://eshop.macsales.com/preorder/owc-thunderbolt-3-dock/
    There are plenty of USB-C/TB-3 docks on Amazon to buy from HP, Kensington, Cal-Digit, StarTech, etc.  Many have displayport output.
    I have macs and a $1k 4k monitor for doorstops still, keeping the faith... 
    My next hope to test after 8 months: http://www.uptab.com/uptab-usb-c-to-mini-displayport-adapter-silver.html
    Or just buy a USBC/TB3 cable that has DP on the other end.  No dongle required but it does require the ability to fog a mirror and search "usb-c to mini displayport" on Amazon.  I guess that's just too damn hard for some people.

    "this works with my new MacBook Pro 13" Touchbar Model and my 27" Apple LED Cinema Display with Mini Displayport. Seamless!"

    "Bought to use with my old apple led Cinema Display (27" - from late 2010) with my new mac book pro 13" with touch bar. It works perfectly! Including the front camera, speakers and the old USB hub behind the screen (if you connect the USB using a USB c adapter as well). Very happy with product!"

    https://www.amazon.com/ITANDA-DisplayPort-Cable-USB-C-Adapter/dp/B01N6R3E0W/ref=sr_1_26?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1494385998&sr=1-26-spons&keywords=USB-C+to+mini+displayport&psc=1

    My facts are straight because I can fog a mirror and search amazon for products I need rather than just moan about how terrible Apple is for moving to the standard port that everyone will be using from here on out.



    None of the DP docks were available in the first couple of months, nor C>DP cables, and you miss the core point I'm afraid...
    The cable you linked does not seem male to female (LED Cinema?) and also does not seem to ship outside of USA, but that might not be discernible...

    Sierra still isn't working with the correct cable on some options, 8 months in... I have many, many hours of troubleshooting behind that statement. Who should pay for that?
    It should work in 10.12.5, assuming they don't muck it up further, still in 'public beta'...

    ...and should Apple at least cover its own hardware off? No less than FIVE Apple tech & gurus said 'of course the TB2>TB3 adapter works with DP' as it is in the TB3 spec...  
    Why didn't Apple carry such cables or adapters if they were available? That seemed to be the question nobody I spoke with at Apple had an answer for... 
    Still batting only 2 out of 5 stars 8 of 12 months in: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEL2AM/A/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-to-thunderbolt-2-adapter?fnode=8b
    Hmmm...
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 49 of 57
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    nht said:
    Soli said:
    Yes I still like my iOS products but a web centric device is more about leveraging web technologies and maintaining a lightweight footprint.  
    There's this weird notion that the Mac can't be powerful and use an ARM processor without being forced to use iOS and a touchscreen UI. I don't understand why this rigid mindset exists, especially for the one company that has converted their desktop OS many times over, but it does.
    Because ARM doesn't enjoy any magic IPC advantage over X86 and hasn't yet been scaled to Core i7 performance in production chips.  It's still in Core M territory and when it gets to Core i7 territory it will have the same general TDP as x86. 

    At 15W TDP on the 6660U (skylake) the primary difference is cost and backward compatibility with the existing software.  While the transition to Intel went as smoothly as could be hoped it still wasn't painless and both developers and users incurred cost. 

    There is no reason you can't run MacOS on ARM except it would cause the same confusion that the ARM based Surface tablets caused. 
    There's a lot wrong with your comment but I don't have time to go over it piece by piece, but I urge you to look at the 12" MacBook and tell me what that one chip costs and what an Apple design could do in terms of TDP, performance, and cost.
  • Reply 50 of 57
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    Soli said:
    nht said:
    Soli said:
    There's this weird notion that the Mac can't be powerful and use an ARM processor without being forced to use iOS and a touchscreen UI. I don't understand why this rigid mindset exists, especially for the one company that has converted their desktop OS many times over, but it does.
    Because ARM doesn't enjoy any magic IPC advantage over X86 and hasn't yet been scaled to Core i7 performance in production chips.  It's still in Core M territory and when it gets to Core i7 territory it will have the same general TDP as x86. 

    At 15W TDP on the 6660U (skylake) the primary difference is cost and backward compatibility with the existing software.  While the transition to Intel went as smoothly as could be hoped it still wasn't painless and both developers and users incurred cost. 

    There is no reason you can't run MacOS on ARM except it would cause the same confusion that the ARM based Surface tablets caused. 
    There's a lot wrong with your comment but I don't have time to go over it piece by piece, but I urge you to look at the 12" MacBook and tell me what that one chip costs and what an Apple design could do in terms of TDP, performance, and cost.
    And an ARM based Macbook in a product lineup of Intel based MBPs is a non-starter.

    If they want to go that route it's trivial to add a couple features back into iOS and have easily recognizable product differentiation and not cause confusion.
  • Reply 51 of 57
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    None of the DP docks were available in the first couple of months, nor C>DP cables, and you miss the core point I'm afraid...
     When the 2016 MBP launched several USB-C products already existed because of the MacBook (2015), Dell XPS 13/15 (late 2015) and Chromebook Pixel.

    By May 2016 there was a mDP product for the MacBook.

    https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/5/17/11691842/usb-c-hub-mini-displayport

    Users with Thunderbolt monitors needed TB3 to TB2 dongle but folks with older mDP based Cinema Displays were okay because the Macbook proceeded it.  A far more valid complaint was that the Thunderbolt Display dropped all legacy inputs.

    The core point is that with USB-C/TB3 you end up working in a richer ecosystem of Macs, PCs and Chromebooks. 
  • Reply 52 of 57
    boboliciousbobolicious Posts: 1,134member
    nht said:

    None of the DP docks were available in the first couple of months, nor C>DP cables, and you miss the core point I'm afraid...
     When the 2016 MBP launched several USB-C products already existed because of the MacBook (2015), Dell XPS 13/15 (late 2015) and Chromebook Pixel.

    By May 2016 there was a mDP product for the MacBook.

    https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/5/17/11691842/usb-c-hub-mini-displayport

    Users with Thunderbolt monitors needed TB3 to TB2 dongle but folks with older mDP based Cinema Displays were okay because the Macbook proceeded it.  A far more valid complaint was that the Thunderbolt Display dropped all legacy inputs.

    The core point is that with USB-C/TB3 you end up working in a richer ecosystem of Macs, PCs and Chromebooks. 
    This product I did find, and was sold out everywhere, and I have been on the notify (silver) list since then, even showing an AppleStore rep the product suggesting they should consider stocking it when I returned a $4K macbook pro that would not work with Apple LED Cinema display or target display iMacs... 7 months now...
    https://www.hypershop.com/collections/usb-type-c/products/hyperdrive-usb-type-c-hub-with-mini-displayport?variant=19600733766
    Apple claims to value sustainability, so I ask if that also relates to everything annual OS cycle, WWDC and legacy support...?
    Another month and it starts all over again...? 'Ship and tell...' ?
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 53 of 57
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,778member
    Soli said:

    MARM - Mac on ARM.  This is the Apple vision of the netcentric Chromebook like product.   
    This already exists, it's an ipad. Apple's less-functional netbook device is an ipad. 
    He means macOS on ARM, not OS X.
    I know what he meant, but i'm saying that when it comes to the job to be done of a lower cost, less functional (a netbook akin to a chromebook), it's already here: ipad. 
  • Reply 54 of 57
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    Soli said:

    MARM - Mac on ARM.  This is the Apple vision of the netcentric Chromebook like product.   
    This already exists, it's an ipad. Apple's less-functional netbook device is an ipad. 
    He means macOS on ARM, not OS X.
    I know what he meant, but i'm saying that when it comes to the job to be done of a lower cost, less functional (a netbook akin to a chromebook), it's already here: ipad. 
    You keep mentioning a netbook which were severely stunted by quality and performance so you can't be thinking about this properly. This is using something that would have the performance (or more) of a future A-seriers-like chip, which puts it well above the 12" MacBook, beyond some of the MacBook Pros selling today.
  • Reply 55 of 57
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,778member
    Soli said:
    Soli said:

    MARM - Mac on ARM.  This is the Apple vision of the netcentric Chromebook like product.   
    This already exists, it's an ipad. Apple's less-functional netbook device is an ipad. 
    He means macOS on ARM, not OS X.
    I know what he meant, but i'm saying that when it comes to the job to be done of a lower cost, less functional (a netbook akin to a chromebook), it's already here: ipad. 
    You keep mentioning a netbook which were severely stunted by quality and performance so you can't be thinking about this properly. This is using something that would have the performance (or more) of a future A-seriers-like chip, which puts it well above the 12" MacBook, beyond some of the MacBook Pros selling today.
    Yes, I keep mentioning it because thats what he mentioned in the job-to-be-done description when asking for a device to serve as the "netcentric Chromebook". As far as I can tell he's asking for a netbook, which...is iPad.

    I'm not really getting into what else a MARM notebook could do, only addressing the notion of "Apple's netbook". That is already here.
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 56 of 57
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    Soli said:
    Soli said:

    MARM - Mac on ARM.  This is the Apple vision of the netcentric Chromebook like product.   
    This already exists, it's an ipad. Apple's less-functional netbook device is an ipad. 
    He means macOS on ARM, not OS X.
    I know what he meant, but i'm saying that when it comes to the job to be done of a lower cost, less functional (a netbook akin to a chromebook), it's already here: ipad. 
    You keep mentioning a netbook which were severely stunted by quality and performance so you can't be thinking about this properly. This is using something that would have the performance (or more) of a future A-seriers-like chip, which puts it well above the 12" MacBook, beyond some of the MacBook Pros selling today.
    Yes, I keep mentioning it because thats what he mentioned in the job-to-be-done description when asking for a device to serve as the "netcentric Chromebook". As far as I can tell he's asking for a netbook, which...is iPad.

    I'm not really getting into what else a MARM notebook could do, only addressing the notion of "Apple's netbook". That is already here.
    A netbook is not an iPad. A netbook is a notebook, while an iPad is a tablet. I shouldn't have to expect the difference to you. Additionally, running a NOTEBOOK on an ARM chip that has a higher performance, lower TDP, and lower cost than what is currently used in the MacBook does not make it a netbook of an iPad. Please, stop calling all devices with an ARM chip a netbook.
    edited May 2017
Sign In or Register to comment.