Apple phasing out iPad mini in light of low sales, Plus-sized iPhones - report

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  • Reply 21 of 102
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 2,492member
    I think the chicken/egg argument is something of a red herring. It isn't that sales are down because there is no update; or no update because there are lower sales at all. The important math is how many does Apple need sell with a given profit on each to cover the redesign/upgrade and retool costs? If there are common internal parts, this is a bit easier, but retooling for that size screen might be expensive. It isn't that there aren't a lot of takers for the mini - there clearly are - it is "are there enough at a given price?" Hard to know.
    sflagel
  • Reply 22 of 102
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,791member
    I still use my original iPad mini but only when I travel. I sit in a restaurant for breakfast and read the news (wifi + cellular). Other than that it is idle. I have an iPad 4 that sits on the coffee table at home for any quick browsing while watching TV. I think there are many use case scenarios for all iPads, but mine is that I use them very rarely. Mostly I use my iMac, Mac Pro or MBP. I use my iPhone for FaceTime audio or regular phone calls, some quick messaging and short emails as well, but only when out and about. I prefer a full size computer for any serious work or recreational browsing.
  • Reply 23 of 102
    Eric_WVGGEric_WVGG Posts: 669member
    macxpress said:

    Again, Apple knows which products it offers sell and which ones don't. They know far more than anyone here. Maybe you see more mini's in our area, but thats an extremely small sample size versus the rest of the world. 
    Of course they do. That says nothing to the credibility of the source, so all we're left with is anecdotes. Anecdotally, the notion that Minis aren't (still) the best-selling model is preposterous.

    I suppose accessory makers could provide interesting data.
  • Reply 24 of 102
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 1,907member
    ireland said:
    joe28753 said:
    I know I'm probably in the minority, but I think there's a place for both large iPhones and small iPads. I use both of mine all the time for different purposes.
    I suspect the point of the article tells us you are in the minority. At a certain point making a mini iPad no longer makes sense. Plus size phones are becoming so popular now I'd say very few people want to own an iPad mini and if they are thinking about acquire an iPad they are looking toward an iPad Pro—if only the price went down a little.
    Totally the opposite regarding Plus size iPhones and iPad Mini: people don't buy iPad Minis not because Plus size iPhones are enough but because a mini size iPad is not enough. In this regard Steve Jobs has been proved right: with 7 inch tablets users would need sandpaper for their fingers. As such, the iPad Mini is cannibalized not by Plus size iPhones but by its larger siblings. This is not a matter of which one sells the most, graphs exist around, this is a matter of usability and Steve Jobs had predicted that. If people would buy an iPad, they would think at first instance to regular iPad, if they cannot buy that for some reason, they wouldn't buy an iPad Mini, either. Because they might buy an iPhone Plus instead. "Regular iPad or none" I think has been the mentality that determined the end of life of iPad Mini.
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 25 of 102
    gordoncygordoncy Posts: 9member
    I have been waiting infinitely to upgrade my mini to another one with >M8. I am part of the reason iPad mini doesn't sell well. It's the perfect tablet size for me. If the mini is axed, I'll have to keep using mine for yet a few more years. I'm not going to get an iPad Pro! It's either a newer iPad mini or no tablet for me.
    frankeed
  • Reply 26 of 102
    sflagelsflagel Posts: 593member
    ireland said:
    joe28753 said:
    I know I'm probably in the minority, but I think there's a place for both large iPhones and small iPads. I use both of mine all the time for different purposes.
    I suspect the point of the article tells us you are in the minority. At a certain point making a mini iPad no longer makes sense. Plus size phones are becoming so popular now I'd say very few people want to own an iPad mini and if they are thinking about acquire an iPad they are looking toward an iPad Pro—if only the price went down a little.
    Totally the opposite regarding Plus size iPhones and iPad Mini: people don't buy iPad Minis not because Plus size iPhones are enough but because a mini size iPad is not enough. In this regard Steve Jobs has been proved right: with 7 inch tablets users would need sandpaper for their fingers. As such, the iPad Mini is cannibalized not by Plus size iPhones but by its larger siblings. This is not a matter of which one sells the most, graphs exist around, this is a matter of usability and Steve Jobs had predicted that. If people would buy an iPad, they would think at first instance to regular iPad, if they cannot buy that for some reason, they wouldn't buy an iPad Mini, either. Because they might buy an iPhone Plus instead. "Regular iPad or none" I think has been the mentality that determined the end of life of iPad Mini.
    What do you do an on iPad that would require you to sandpaper your fingers, Do you do more than watching videos; reading web pages books, and blogs; writing the occasional email; and maybe clicking on an icon to turn on your lights? What percentage of potential iPad buyers really will us e it as a productivity tool?
  • Reply 27 of 102
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 1,907member
    Eric_WVGG said:
    macxpress said:
    I've said this all along and some didn't want to believe me. The iPad mini is on its way out. Its not necessary anymore. I'm know there are some who loved it and live by it everyday, but not for the masses. 
    If that were the case, wouldn't larger iPads be the most common in the wild? They're not, not even close. I absolutely believe that Apple is trying to push the market toward larger devices, as that is good for making a more serious market for "creation" apps. I do not believe consumers are going that way.
    Umm not exactly. Gamers are a large part of those consumers and iPad Mini is not a perfect device for gaming. It is just a shrunken down regular iPad with smaller pixels thus more resolution. That contributes to the crispness of photos, HD movies etc.. but when it comes to games things change: figures and targets get smaller, controls get smaller and as a whole the gaming experience stays far behind the regular iPad.
  • Reply 28 of 102
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 1,954member
    If true, big mistake. 

    iPad Mini might have a niche audience, but it's an important niche -- kids! 

    Kids love it for videos and games. It's the perfect device for little hands. 
    lorin schultzargonautfrankeed
  • Reply 29 of 102
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,540member

    ireland said:
    So 10" was a better tablet size all along? And for those who say tablets are dying it's worth pointing out Apple's tablets are outselling their Macs 2-1. With some OS improvements for iPad and better pricing for the pro model, I think iPad sales numbers could pick up steam again. Further, Apple should take a much lower percent depending the total cost of the app or subscription to incentivise guys like Adobe to go all-in on iPad. Where apps that cost hundreds per year or up front, Apple would take perhaps 5 or 10% off the top—this is how you convince Adobe to bring the full version of PS to App Store. It's apps like this that give the device more power and give people the impression of iPad as a full computer.
    I think the iPad sales decline - led by the Mini - is coming to an end.  The number of Mini's being sold right now is likely quite small, and since this form factor is believed to have declined by most (have some one estimate at 75% of sales decline), sales may be stabilizing.  

    Apple now has a much lower priced (new) iPad 9.7", and (hopefully) updates to the Pro line this WWDC or fall.  That may be enough to stabilize the sales, or even provide some growth.  I agree that Apple needs to focus on how to get better quality pro apps on the iPad for long term success.
  • Reply 30 of 102
    Eric_WVGGEric_WVGG Posts: 669member

    Umm not exactly. Gamers are a large part of those consumers and iPad Mini is not a perfect device for gaming. It is just a shrunken down regular iPad with smaller pixels thus more resolution. That contributes to the crispness of photos, HD movies etc.. but when it comes to games things change: figures and targets get smaller, controls get smaller and as a whole the gaming experience stays far behind the regular iPad.
    I'm not sure what you're saying here. That larger iPads are better for gaming? Probably, I'm not sure how that's pertinent. The point I'm making is that consumers, for whatever reason, seem to mostly go for Minis.
  • Reply 31 of 102
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,194member
    sog35 said:
    Steve Jobs was right. The iPad mini should have never been a thing.

    All it did was cause tablet prices to drop even lower.
    Right because consumer electronics becoming more affordable is a bad thing. My mother has an iPad mini that she uses every single day. She loves it. If it had been more expensive she never would have purchased it. Not everyone is made of money.
    GeorgeBMacfrankeed
  • Reply 32 of 102
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 1,907member
    sflagel said:
    ireland said:
    joe28753 said:
    I know I'm probably in the minority, but I think there's a place for both large iPhones and small iPads. I use both of mine all the time for different purposes.
    I suspect the point of the article tells us you are in the minority. At a certain point making a mini iPad no longer makes sense. Plus size phones are becoming so popular now I'd say very few people want to own an iPad mini and if they are thinking about acquire an iPad they are looking toward an iPad Pro—if only the price went down a little.
    Totally the opposite regarding Plus size iPhones and iPad Mini: people don't buy iPad Minis not because Plus size iPhones are enough but because a mini size iPad is not enough. In this regard Steve Jobs has been proved right: with 7 inch tablets users would need sandpaper for their fingers. As such, the iPad Mini is cannibalized not by Plus size iPhones but by its larger siblings. This is not a matter of which one sells the most, graphs exist around, this is a matter of usability and Steve Jobs had predicted that. If people would buy an iPad, they would think at first instance to regular iPad, if they cannot buy that for some reason, they wouldn't buy an iPad Mini, either. Because they might buy an iPhone Plus instead. "Regular iPad or none" I think has been the mentality that determined the end of life of iPad Mini.
    What do you do an on iPad that would require you to sandpaper your fingers, Do you do more than watching videos; reading web pages books, and blogs; writing the occasional email; and maybe clicking on an icon to turn on your lights? What percentage of potential iPad buyers really will us e it as a productivity tool?
    Of course I do more on my iPad Mini than watching videos, reading web or books, occasional emails, I do database, I do web publishing, I do iCloud, whatever you call as productivity. And I continuously feel constrained by its small screen size. But don't take me as a sample user, I am a minority and as an IT worker I am familiar with such constraints. Let's take a common example: iPad Mini is barely a movie watching device, because movies are made not for iPads, not for computers, not for TVs, but for much larger screens on huge walls. Watch an HD movie with subtitles you'll be annoyed by the automatic shrinking of subtitle text that becomes barely legible on iPad Mini. Portability OK, I like it but Steve Jobs was right in putting usability prior to portability.
    sflagel
  • Reply 33 of 102
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 1,907member
    blastdoor said:
    If true, big mistake. 

    iPad Mini might have a niche audience, but it's an important niche -- kids! 

    Kids love it for videos and games. It's the perfect device for little hands. 
    I thought so for a while. Actually kids are much more clever than that: once they figure out that they score better on a regular iPad, they won't hesitate to invade the regular iPads of their parents. And there are sound reasons to score better on a regular iPad: the games are designed for those, all controls, figures, targets are designed with regular iPads in mind. When you shrink down the regular iPad, playing becomes harder due to the shrunken size of targets, figures, and controls. 
  • Reply 34 of 102
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,979member
    blastdoor said:
    If true, big mistake. 

    iPad Mini might have a niche audience, but it's an important niche -- kids! 

    Kids love it for videos and games. It's the perfect device for little hands. 
    They can adapt to a larger iPad just as easily. I watch kids all day long at school using regular sized iPads. Its not a problem at all. 
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 35 of 102
    ike17055ike17055 Posts: 116member
    Said it before: when apple stops making Mini, they have lost me as a customer. It is the perfect device for so many things: more portable than full-size iPad, more functional than a small screen device.  They dropped the iPod Classic almost as soon as they perfected it; and it appears they are possibly doing the same thing here.  Those the the two devices that made me an Apple customer.  
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 36 of 102
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,584member
    ireland said:
    So 10" was a better tablet size all along? And for those who say tablets are dying it's worth pointing out Apple's tablets are outselling their Macs 2-1. With some OS improvements for iPad and better pricing for the pro model, I think iPad sales numbers could pick up steam again. Further, Apple should take a much lower percent depending the total cost of the app or subscription to incentivise guys like Adobe to go all-in on iPad. Where apps that cost hundreds per year or up front, Apple would take perhaps 5 or 10% off the top—this is how you convince Adobe to bring the full version of PS to App Store. It's apps like this that give the device more power and give people the impression of iPad as a full computer.
    I'm not sure why they need to worry about giving people that impression. It's good for the jobs to be done that it serves. Personally I wouldn't want to try to use the "full" version of Photoshop on a touch-tablet (car). That's what my desktop is for (truck).
  • Reply 37 of 102
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    Steve Jobs was right. The iPad mini should have never been a thing.

    All it did was cause tablet prices to drop even lower.
    Right because consumer electronics becoming more affordable is a bad thing. My mother has an iPad mini that she uses every single day. She loves it. If it had been more expensive she never would have purchased it. Not everyone is made of money.
    So why don't we see $199 iPhones?  Or $499 Macbooks?

    Apple does not do cheap. They made an exception with the iPad mini and it bit them in the butt.

    And this isn't a new opinion. I said the iPad Mini was a mistake the day it was released.
    Your statement WAS valid until Apple launched the iPad 2017 recently. It is NOT a valid statement anymore.
  • Reply 38 of 102
    19831983 Posts: 1,192member
    So Jobs was right about smaller screened tablets after all.
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 39 of 102
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,584member

    wozwoz said:
    That would be another dumb decision by post-Steve Apple. As other have commented, sales are down not due to the plus size phone but due to the lack of updates to the mini ... not to mention the high pricing, and thick form factor that has not been updated for more than 2 years.
    Ah yeah, the arm-chair executives know best, right!? Not the guys who actually work within Apple, on their inventory and study this stuff day in and out, for years. Nope, anonymous dudes on rumor sites got this down! 

    Me, I suspect Apple knows more than you do. I'd bet that they stopped updating it when it stopped selling.
  • Reply 40 of 102
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,584member
    blastdoor said:
    If true, big mistake. 

    iPad Mini might have a niche audience, but it's an important niche -- kids! 

    Kids love it for videos and games. It's the perfect device for little hands. 
    You better get on the horn with Cook. He needs to know this, now!
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