Apple orders Chinese social networks to stop 'tip' functions that break App Store rules

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 27
    bestkeptsecretbestkeptsecret Posts: 4,271member
    This is probably Apple just tipping their hand that peer-to-peer payments via ApplePay/ Messages is coming soon.
  • Reply 22 of 27
    igorskyigorsky Posts: 766member
    Good luck with that. They're just trying to get around Apples 30% cut for in-App purchases. Instead of calling themselves "developers" and charging in-App purchases for extra in-game goodies they now call themselves "content creators" and say they're accepting donations.

    Bottom line is they are still people looking to make a profit by selling something via in-App purchases. You can change the name, but it's still people trying to make money.
    Exactly. Apple is obviously trying to close off a potentially abused loophole.
  • Reply 23 of 27
    igorskyigorsky Posts: 766member
    I just sent my mother money via my banking app on my iPhone. How is that any different than what these chat apps are doing? Should Apple get a cut of that because the banking app is on the iOS platform?
    Apple doesn't get a cut in this case, so not sure what point you're trying to make.
  • Reply 24 of 27
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,388member
    igorsky said:
    Apple doesn't get a cut in this case, so not sure what point you're trying to make.   
    I just sent my mother money via my banking app on my iPhone. How is that any different than what these chat apps are doing? Should Apple get a cut of that because the banking app is on the iOS platform?
        
    If you read the article a bit more carefully you WOULD understand the point that was being made.
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 25 of 27
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,585member
    cropr said:
    These app developers are simply attempting to circumvent the rules they agreed to when they chose to develop for iOS. They want the benefit of using the platform Apple created without paying for the privilege. Deadbeats.
    As an app developer I disagree with you.  I don't mind that Apple takes a 30% cut if Apple brings value on the table, but in some cases Apple just does nothing.  In such cases Apple is abusing its power over the app developer (who has to agree to the rules of Apple if he wants to make an iOS app) to impose its very broad definition of in app purchase. 

    I think that's wrong. What does a store offer, other than selling a developers products? And without that store, what does the developer have? Nothing.

    that 30% cut pays for the continuation of the store, and all of its costs. You think the store costs Apple nothing? Estimates I've read say that for every dollar of a purchase, Apple actually makes just 5% profit. If you think that's a lot, then think of you making just 5% profit on your software sales.

    but there are particular issues that do need to be addressed. Certain services are of a scope that Apple likely shouldn't touch.  While I believe that Apple should leave this alone, it's only because, in China, things are different. While it does seem as though, in theory, Apple is in the right here, after all, an in-app purchase is still an in app purchase, whether it's before or after use, or viewing, the Chinese don't look at it that way.

    it's a major headache for Apple, because if they give it away here, then demands will be to give it away everywhere.
  • Reply 26 of 27
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,388member
    melgross said:
    cropr said:
    These app developers are simply attempting to circumvent the rules they agreed to when they chose to develop for iOS. They want the benefit of using the platform Apple created without paying for the privilege. Deadbeats.
    As an app developer I disagree with you.  I don't mind that Apple takes a 30% cut if Apple brings value on the table, but in some cases Apple just does nothing.  In such cases Apple is abusing its power over the app developer (who has to agree to the rules of Apple if he wants to make an iOS app) to impose its very broad definition of in app purchase. 

    I think that's wrong. What does a store offer, other than selling a developers products? And without that store, what does the developer have? Nothing.

    that 30% cut pays for the continuation of the store, and all of its costs. You think the store costs Apple nothing? Estimates I've read say that for every dollar of a purchase, Apple actually makes just 5% profit. If you think that's a lot, then think of you making just 5% profit on your software sales.

    but there are particular issues that do need to be addressed. Certain services are of a scope that Apple likely shouldn't touch.  While I believe that Apple should leave this alone, it's only because, in China, things are different. While it does seem as though, in theory, Apple is in the right here, after all, an in-app purchase is still an in app purchase, whether it's before or after use, or viewing, the Chinese don't look at it that way.

    it's a major headache for Apple, because if they give it away here, then demands will be to give it away everywhere.
    Mel, I've no idea if you saw that 5% margin number mentioned by anyone with any expertise but I personally suspect that it's far, FAR off. Maybe you saw some four or five year old estimate that's so far out-of-date and using far lower revenues it has no reliability anymore. But whatever there's not a chance in Hades that it costs Apple that much to maintain the App Store IMHO, and there's educated sources who would agree with me. This one is from AI themselves.

    "A key factor in this segment is margins —Schachter believes Apple has more than 90 percent gross margins on sales through iTunes and the App Store, while operating margins are believed to be around 80 percent. As a result, he said these business are "punching far above their weight in terms of profit contribution."




    edited May 2017
  • Reply 27 of 27
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,585member
    gatorguy said:
    melgross said:
    cropr said:
    These app developers are simply attempting to circumvent the rules they agreed to when they chose to develop for iOS. They want the benefit of using the platform Apple created without paying for the privilege. Deadbeats.
    As an app developer I disagree with you.  I don't mind that Apple takes a 30% cut if Apple brings value on the table, but in some cases Apple just does nothing.  In such cases Apple is abusing its power over the app developer (who has to agree to the rules of Apple if he wants to make an iOS app) to impose its very broad definition of in app purchase. 

    I think that's wrong. What does a store offer, other than selling a developers products? And without that store, what does the developer have? Nothing.

    that 30% cut pays for the continuation of the store, and all of its costs. You think the store costs Apple nothing? Estimates I've read say that for every dollar of a purchase, Apple actually makes just 5% profit. If you think that's a lot, then think of you making just 5% profit on your software sales.

    but there are particular issues that do need to be addressed. Certain services are of a scope that Apple likely shouldn't touch.  While I believe that Apple should leave this alone, it's only because, in China, things are different. While it does seem as though, in theory, Apple is in the right here, after all, an in-app purchase is still an in app purchase, whether it's before or after use, or viewing, the Chinese don't look at it that way.

    it's a major headache for Apple, because if they give it away here, then demands will be to give it away everywhere.
    Mel, I've no idea if you saw that 5% margin number mentioned by anyone with any expertise but I personally suspect that it's far, FAR off. Maybe you saw some four or five year old estimate that's so far out-of-date and using far lower revenues it has no reliability anymore. But whatever there's not a chance in Hades that it costs Apple that much to maintain the App Store IMHO, and there's educated sources who would agree with me. This one is from AI themselves.

    "A key factor in this segment is margins —Schachter believes Apple has more than 90 percent gross margins on sales through iTunes and the App Store, while operating margins are believed to be around 80 percent. As a result, he said these business are "punching far above their weight in terms of profit contribution."



    I don't agree with those outside numbers. I look though the quarterlies very carefully, and I see no evidence for it. I believe the 5% number is correct. That gives about a 12.5% net on the 30%. That seems far more likely. These guys are pulling numbers out of their, let's say - ears.
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