Steve Wozniak suggests Tesla, not Apple, will create the next successful tech moonshot

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 87
    sockrolidsockrolid Posts: 2,788member
    blastdoor said:
    ... General Motors beat Tesla to the punch with the Bolt (coming out before the Model 3), showing that Tesla's early mover advantage here is pretty much gone before Tesla can even turn a profit. ...
    Except that Tesla sucked all the air out of the room by taking more than 400,000 deposits for the Model 3.
    I wouldn't be surprised if that's twice the number of Bolts that Chevy will sell in its entire production life cycle.
    Solipscooter63anton zuykov
  • Reply 42 of 87
    magman1979magman1979 Posts: 1,066member
    I think the next really big thing will be the final arrival of the long-promised Jetson's flying car. Personal transport in its terrestrially-bound mode is reaching the point of diminishing returns. Once clean power and autonomous driving are fully implemented there's nowhere to go but up. With drone technology becoming ubiquitous, only the breakthrough of ultralight batteries stand in the way. Electric carmakers, particularly Tesla, are well-positioned and highly motivated to make this happen. Or maybe some new guy will come up with it. 
    Have to disagree with you there, as the flying car is still a moonshot pipe dream for now...

    The next big thing, that will TRULY be big, for EVERYONE, is a quantum leap in battery technology! This will benefit pretty much ALL technology on the planet, and will unlock new possibilities for things like electric cars, smartphones, wearable tech, laptops, home power, you name it!

    If someone comes out with a safe, reliable, revolutionary battery tech, the sky is the limit!
    radarthekat
  • Reply 43 of 87
    holyoneholyone Posts: 377member
    holyone said:
    holyone said:
    Revolutionary things come from revolutionary people, and sadly Apple lost theirs having first fired him then got him back, there more one looks around beyond Apple fandom the more noticeable how intrinsic and inseparable dynamic leaders are to the companies they lead. What is Tesla if not Musk, what is Amazon if not Bezos and if this assertion hold true then what is Apple if not Jobs, how much of these companies is essentially the will and vision of these guys and can they be the same with out them.
    It's nice rhetoric, but not law. Disney is still cranking out magic despite losing its founder. I'm sure there are others if you look for it.
    Man SrangeDays you enjoy posting on other's post but I'm great full you challenged my points instead of some dismissive and condescending comment, thanks.  

    To the excellent point you raise, true Disney is still cranking up the magic and Ford still makes cars, but when Walt ran things Disney created Mikey mouse and Lion king nothing recently comes anywhere close to those in endurance and cultural relevance, and there's nothing much to be said about morden Ford really other then they're still around. I'm not saying the death of the leader means the company withers and die, that would mean that those companies were not that impressive to begin with, Disney won't just die, Walts' efforts like Steve's were just too monumental and heculian to be so easily squandered, even by the most incompetent successor. what I'm saying is that these companies are never ever going to be the same as what made them so special was so closely link to the people who in many cases founded them, and lead them to great success and how that in many ways is the way of nature, like how there have been many musicians who've come and many to come still but there'll only be one Mickael Jackson
    Walt Disney died in 1966 -- long before Lion King and nearly every film and franchise that millions of kids idolize. True there was Mickey, but he and Donald Duck just aren't what they used to be to audiences today. When was the last Mickey or Donald movie? How much did it gross? Etc.. The best days of Disney were ahead of it when Walt died, not behind.
    Fair point but we are still talking about Mickey and Donald today that's staying power, I think where you and I differ the most is that I don't consider making money the same as being successful let alone being revolutionary only an indicator, sure Disney is making money but when was the last time Disney made something that just shook the entertainment to its core and made people go Wow that was amazing, like it did when Walt was seeing the future, the hole company has now just become a generic brand whose Maine purpose is to make money, people confuse large revenues with relevance, Apple of old was kicking ass and taking names when it had little money, many here fail to take notice even though it has been shown time and time again and largely by Apple that money can't buy you brilliance or vision, this is what's wrong with google it has enormous financial resources but zero vision on all accounts google should be the biggest company in the world but as (Steve was Apple) who is google ? That is the difference, when Steve left Apple it almost went under not because it was a terrible company but because it was being ran by non visionaries who were half incompetent, Running a company they didnt understand, a good company can last a 100 years with just competent management but for a company to do great things it needs a great leader, I think that's what Wozniak was trying to say, that money and talent arent enough, there've never been, you need a Steve at the helm driving with fierce vision and nothing but sheere will to the point of being disliked by you're staff, that was Jobs, that's Bezos That's Musk the question is can you confidently say that, that's Cook too ?
  • Reply 44 of 87
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 1,840member
    Moon shot?

    a flash in the pan that'll be abandoned instead of maintained and furthered?

    tech has lots of those. 
    tallest skilpscooter63radarthekatasdasd
  • Reply 45 of 87
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,378member
    gprovida said:
    Woz seems to be seduced by the buzz, but the Musk initiatives remain very problematic from a business perspective.  Yes exciting, but still problematic. 
    The Solar project is being driven poorly as one example. The first year Apple sales of electric cars will dwarf Tesla, and Musk knows it.
    We will probably know by the end of this year if Tesla will survive, if it will be worthy of its current valuation greater than Ford, and if they actually have as shot at being any where as big as Apple (as Elon Musk thinks).
  • Reply 46 of 87
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,371member
    Last night's episode of Impossible Engineering is about Tesla's massive, highly automated, and efficient production factory.
    pscooter63
  • Reply 47 of 87
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,378member
    gprovida said:
    Woz seems to be seduced by the buzz, but the Musk initiatives remain very problematic from a business perspective.  Yes exciting, but still problematic. 
    The Solar project is being driven poorly as one example. The first year Apple sales of electric cars will dwarf Tesla, and Musk knows it.
    I tend to think that Apple should next focus on a camera with either APS-C or Full Frame sensor that is fully automatic with iOS based operating system.
    It would fit in great with the Apple Watch when it gains Cell capability in a few years.

    Either way I wonder if Apple will go with an electric car  or just ICE engine with self driving software.    Apple will probably open their plant in China.   Excuse me FoxConn will open the plant in China.   No way Apple deals with unions in America.     That will keep labor costs extremely low.    Apple also won't be paying Dealers.
  • Reply 48 of 87
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,371member
    Its funny that people on this forum claim that Tesla will close up shop because they only produce in the hundreds of the thousands, not millions. The number of profitable car companies that have never come close to producing what Tesla was doing years ago is high. 
  • Reply 49 of 87
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,371member
    k2kw said:
    gprovida said:
    Woz seems to be seduced by the buzz, but the Musk initiatives remain very problematic from a business perspective.  Yes exciting, but still problematic. 
    The Solar project is being driven poorly as one example. The first year Apple sales of electric cars will dwarf Tesla, and Musk knows it.
    I tend to think that Apple should next focus on a camera with either APS-C or Full Frame sensor that is fully automatic with iOS based operating system.
    It would fit in great with the Apple Watch when it gains Cell capability in a few years.

    Either way I wonder if Apple will go with an electric car  or just ICE engine with self driving software.    Apple will probably open their plant in China.   Excuse me FoxConn will open the plant in China.   No way Apple deals with unions in America.     That will keep labor costs extremely low.    Apple also won't be paying Dealers.
    There's a reason why so many foreign automobile companies have manufacturing plants in the US for US customers.
  • Reply 50 of 87
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,206member
    Soli said:
    gprovida said:
    Woz seems to be seduced by the buzz, but the Musk initiatives remain very problematic from a business perspective.  Yes exciting, but still problematic. 
    The Solar project is being driven poorly as one example. The first year Apple sales of electric cars will dwarf Tesla, and Musk knows it.
    How can you possibly say that as an absolute statement when there's still no evidence of Apple even building a car? What plant will they have that dwarf's Tesla's Gigafactory—the world largest building by footprint, and one of the largest in general? Where are the deals for sourcing the lithium or are they going to be using a completely different element for their battery tech? Where is this giant factory that will out produce Tesla and their relatively low-cost Tesla 3? Do you understand the business reasons behind Tesla announcing a low-cost Tesla 3 that will make it affordable for more people? It's not because they're reducing the number of vehicles they're able to produce.
    You seem to prove that you know little about the Auto industry, nor have you been following what's happening with battery production in China. I have acquaintances at the Gigafactory, and right now, there is nothing to suggest that Tesla is producing anything but power packs for utilities and homes there. Tesla may want to produce the Tesla 3 lower chassis there complete, and battery packs for the S and the X, but that isn't happening right now. I'm not even confident that the Gigafactory is producing the Powerpacks at the rate that they need, I haven't heard if they are doing Powerwalls there, and Panasonic has barely begun production of the 25700 size batteries that they will need for the 3. More smoke and mirrors wrt schedules.

    Lithium is plentiful a couple of hundred mile south of the Gigafactory, among other sources worldwide. It's cobalt that may end up being the limiting metal for volume production of batteries, not just for Tesla. My guess is that won't be a limiting factor either.

    I disagree that Apple would be able to outproduce Tesla if they announced a car anytime soon. But to put it in perspective, Toyota and Volkswagen are both in the range of 10M units a year, and Tesla I'm guessing is not quite at 100,000 units a year yet, and looks to be losing money on the 3 based on BOM analysis.

    Look, I think the Tesla is a cool company, and Elon is a farsighted guy, but this is the automotive industry, and Tesla is still losing money. What happens when every large company starts shipping EV's in volume? What happens when the Chinese start shipping inexpensive EV's?

    I've read that China is building 11 large battery manufacturing plants. Based on the scale that China can put in place rapidly, battery production may no longer be the weak link in EV manufacture, and surely, battery plants going up in Germany are going to feed MB, Volkswagen Group, and BMW to name a few.

    Oh, and there is another Solar provider coming in at 25% less cost than Solar City. Commoditization is on the way, and soon, Powerpacks and Powerwalls will be under threat for margins.

    http://www.visualcapitalist.com/china-leading-charge-lithium-ion-megafactories/

     
  • Reply 51 of 87
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,371member
    tmay said:
    Soli said:
    gprovida said:
    Woz seems to be seduced by the buzz, but the Musk initiatives remain very problematic from a business perspective.  Yes exciting, but still problematic. 
    The Solar project is being driven poorly as one example. The first year Apple sales of electric cars will dwarf Tesla, and Musk knows it.
    How can you possibly say that as an absolute statement when there's still no evidence of Apple even building a car? What plant will they have that dwarf's Tesla's Gigafactory—the world largest building by footprint, and one of the largest in general? Where are the deals for sourcing the lithium or are they going to be using a completely different element for their battery tech? Where is this giant factory that will out produce Tesla and their relatively low-cost Tesla 3? Do you understand the business reasons behind Tesla announcing a low-cost Tesla 3 that will make it affordable for more people? It's not because they're reducing the number of vehicles they're able to produce.
    You seem to prove that you know little about the Auto industry, nor have you been following what's happening with battery production in China. I have acquaintances at the Gigafactory, and right now, there is nothing to suggest that Tesla is producing anything but power packs for utilities and homes there. Tesla may want to produce the Tesla 3 lower chassis there complete, and battery packs for the S and the X, but that isn't happening right now. I'm not even confident that the Gigafactory is producing the Powerpacks at the rate that they need, I haven't heard if they are doing Powerwalls there, and Panasonic has barely begun production of the 25700 size batteries that they will need for the 3. More smoke and mirrors wrt schedules.

    Lithium is plentiful a couple of hundred mile south of the Gigafactory, among other sources worldwide. It's cobalt that may end up being the limiting metal for volume production of batteries, not just for Tesla. My guess is that won't be a limiting factor either.

    I disagree that Apple would be able to outproduce Tesla if they announced a car anytime soon. But to put it in perspective, Toyota and Volkswagen are both in the range of 10M units a year, and Tesla I'm guessing is not quite at 100,000 units a year yet, and looks to be losing money on the 3 based on BOM analysis.

    Look, I think the Tesla is a cool company, and Elon is a farsighted guy, but this is the automotive industry, and Tesla is still losing money. What happens when every large company starts shipping EV's in volume? What happens when the Chinese start shipping inexpensive EV's?

    I've read that China is building 11 large battery manufacturing plants. Based on the scale that China can put in place rapidly, battery production may no longer be the weak link in EV manufacture, and surely, battery plants going up in Germany are going to feed MB, Volkswagen Group, and BMW to name a few.

    Oh, and there is another Solar provider coming in at 25% less cost than Solar City. Commoditization is on the way, and soon, Powerpacks and Powerwalls will be under threat for margins.

    http://www.visualcapitalist.com/china-leading-charge-lithium-ion-megafactories/

     
    This is uch a weird statement. So Tesla will fail because "Toyota and Volkswagen" produce more ICE cars right now? How does that even make sense to you? Even if they produced 10 million electric cars none of that means Tesla is going to fold because they aren't producing as many units. That's probably the dumbest reason I've ever heard as to why Tesla has no shot at success… which is something I've heard since day one and now they have preordered for more than 400k low-cost Tesla 3 models.

    And if you were paying attention at all you'd know that Tesla was producing over 2,000 cars a week as of a year ago. Even simple math will tell you that 52 × 2,000 is over 100k. Do you really think they'd have gone with a low-cost Tesla 3 if they weren't confident that they could ramp up production? Do you really believe their gigafactory will not be making batteries for their cars because their automotive department will soon be DOA? Or, are you saying that they will not be able to produce them and Musk will be effectively stealing their money because he's just a shyster who has duped us all into believing that he can be an electric car that works? None of those scenarios make sense to me, especially when, as of 2015, there were over 30 major automobile companies only making 17 million cars, but you say Tesla has no chance because two of them make 60% of the total units. Of course, you'll say whatever one else says when I bring up popular companies that sell less units than Tesla that they're selling a certain type of car, yet that's exactly what Tesla is doing. Tesla isn't competing with the cheapest Toyota or with anything that Tata builds. Volvo "reported U.S. sales of 7,121 vehicles for the month of April [2017], a 15.4 percent increase versus April 2016," yet Tesla reported 8,600  (2000 × 4.3) for June a year earlier, and yet I hear no one say that Volvo doesn't stand a chance at surviving because "Toyota and Volkswagen" sell more units.

    What's with this notion that a company can't survive if they invest in their future? Amazon is lucky to ever be in the black and they've been on top for a decade. Even as Walmart and others tried to create a web presence Amazon still persevered despite being a *new* company operating the red. And let's not forget that Apple now has deep pockets while failing at many ventures and was without profit while it was able to create the iPod despite people sounding just like you at the turn of the century by saying Apple doesn't have a chance once Microsoft jumps into the market. Then you have the iPhone and statements like"PC guys aren't going to figure this out", and you have the Macs with such few unit sales compared to all the PCs that run Windows which sound like your arguments. Apple had no chance based on your statements and, yet, they're the world's more valuable corporation. Crazy how works.
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 52 of 87
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,206member
    Soli said:
    tmay said:
    Soli said:
    gprovida said:
    Woz seems to be seduced by the buzz, but the Musk initiatives remain very problematic from a business perspective.  Yes exciting, but still problematic. 
    The Solar project is being driven poorly as one example. The first year Apple sales of electric cars will dwarf Tesla, and Musk knows it.
    How can you possibly say that as an absolute statement when there's still no evidence of Apple even building a car? What plant will they have that dwarf's Tesla's Gigafactory—the world largest building by footprint, and one of the largest in general? Where are the deals for sourcing the lithium or are they going to be using a completely different element for their battery tech? Where is this giant factory that will out produce Tesla and their relatively low-cost Tesla 3? Do you understand the business reasons behind Tesla announcing a low-cost Tesla 3 that will make it affordable for more people? It's not because they're reducing the number of vehicles they're able to produce.
    You seem to prove that you know little about the Auto industry, nor have you been following what's happening with battery production in China. I have acquaintances at the Gigafactory, and right now, there is nothing to suggest that Tesla is producing anything but power packs for utilities and homes there. Tesla may want to produce the Tesla 3 lower chassis there complete, and battery packs for the S and the X, but that isn't happening right now. I'm not even confident that the Gigafactory is producing the Powerpacks at the rate that they need, I haven't heard if they are doing Powerwalls there, and Panasonic has barely begun production of the 25700 size batteries that they will need for the 3. More smoke and mirrors wrt schedules.

    Lithium is plentiful a couple of hundred mile south of the Gigafactory, among other sources worldwide. It's cobalt that may end up being the limiting metal for volume production of batteries, not just for Tesla. My guess is that won't be a limiting factor either.

    I disagree that Apple would be able to outproduce Tesla if they announced a car anytime soon. But to put it in perspective, Toyota and Volkswagen are both in the range of 10M units a year, and Tesla I'm guessing is not quite at 100,000 units a year yet, and looks to be losing money on the 3 based on BOM analysis.

    Look, I think the Tesla is a cool company, and Elon is a farsighted guy, but this is the automotive industry, and Tesla is still losing money. What happens when every large company starts shipping EV's in volume? What happens when the Chinese start shipping inexpensive EV's?

    I've read that China is building 11 large battery manufacturing plants. Based on the scale that China can put in place rapidly, battery production may no longer be the weak link in EV manufacture, and surely, battery plants going up in Germany are going to feed MB, Volkswagen Group, and BMW to name a few.

    Oh, and there is another Solar provider coming in at 25% less cost than Solar City. Commoditization is on the way, and soon, Powerpacks and Powerwalls will be under threat for margins.

    http://www.visualcapitalist.com/china-leading-charge-lithium-ion-megafactories/

     
    This is uch a weird statement. So Tesla will fail because "Toyota and Volkswagen" produce more ICE cars right now? How does that even make sense to you? Even if they produced 10 million electric cars none of that means Tesla is going to fold because they aren't producing as many units. That's probably the dumbest reason I've ever heard as to why Tesla has no shot at success… which is something I've heard since day one and now they have preordered for more than 400k low-cost Tesla 3 models.

    And if you were paying attention at all you'd know that Tesla was producing over 2,000 cars a week as of a year ago. Even simple math will tell you that 52 × 2,000 is over 100k. Do you really think they'd have gone with a low-cost Tesla 3 if they weren't confident that they could ramp up production? Do you really believe their gigafactory will not be making batteries for their cars because their automotive department will soon be DOA? Or, are you saying that they will not be able to produce them and Musk will be effectively stealing their money because he's just a shyster who has duped us all into believing that he can be an electric car that works? None of those scenarios make sense to me.

    What's with this notion that a company can't survive if they invest in their future? Amazon is lucky to ever be in the black and they've been on top for a decade. Even as Walmart and others tried to create a web presence Amazon still persevered despite being a *new* company operating the red. And let's not forget that Apple now has deep pockets while failing at many ventures and was without profit while it was able to create the iPod despite people sounding just like you at the turn of the century by saying Apple doesn't have a chance once Microsoft jumps into the market. Then you have the iPhone and statements like"PC guys aren't going to figure this out", and you have the Macs with such few unit sales compared to all the PCs that run Windows which sound like your arguments. Apple had no chance based on your statements and, yet, they're the world's more valuable corporation. Crazy how works.
    I didn't state the Tesla would fail, but I'm not buying the hype on the company either. My point regarding the Automotive industry is that the large companies are in fact making money and Tesla, to date is not. That doesn't mean that Tesla won't, but if you look at the competition for EV's ramping up, there will be few niches that Tesla will be able to exploit merely with its "brand". I also pointed out that China is ramping up battery production, and I'm guessing that there will be plenty of buyers, domestic and otherwise. 

    Toyota has produced 6.1 million hybrids since 1997, and they are known for high quality small cars. From an engineering standpoint, there isn't all that much effort to develop an EV once you've done a hybrid. Why has Toyota waited on an EV? Maybe for the same reason that Apple had to wait for the OLED; not enough production and/or favorable pricing. Expect lots of EV's to be released in the next couple of years.

    BTW, Tesla was founded in 2003, some 14 years ago, so maybe Tesla is still in the startup phase of production, based on the age of some of the largest Automotive companies.

    http://www.thedrive.com/opinion/8019/tesla-is-screwed-once-luxury-carmakers-start-building-real-electric-cars

    https://finance.yahoo.com/m/923a59d9-b056-336d-b63b-9ff31ad399ab/ss_tesla's-cars-are-either-the.html


  • Reply 53 of 87
    monstrositymonstrosity Posts: 2,178member
    Woz relevant 
    baconstang
  • Reply 54 of 87
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,371member
    tmay said:
    Soli said:
    tmay said:
    Soli said:
    gprovida said:
    Woz seems to be seduced by the buzz, but the Musk initiatives remain very problematic from a business perspective.  Yes exciting, but still problematic. 
    The Solar project is being driven poorly as one example. The first year Apple sales of electric cars will dwarf Tesla, and Musk knows it.
    How can you possibly say that as an absolute statement when there's still no evidence of Apple even building a car? What plant will they have that dwarf's Tesla's Gigafactory—the world largest building by footprint, and one of the largest in general? Where are the deals for sourcing the lithium or are they going to be using a completely different element for their battery tech? Where is this giant factory that will out produce Tesla and their relatively low-cost Tesla 3? Do you understand the business reasons behind Tesla announcing a low-cost Tesla 3 that will make it affordable for more people? It's not because they're reducing the number of vehicles they're able to produce.
    You seem to prove that you know little about the Auto industry, nor have you been following what's happening with battery production in China. I have acquaintances at the Gigafactory, and right now, there is nothing to suggest that Tesla is producing anything but power packs for utilities and homes there. Tesla may want to produce the Tesla 3 lower chassis there complete, and battery packs for the S and the X, but that isn't happening right now. I'm not even confident that the Gigafactory is producing the Powerpacks at the rate that they need, I haven't heard if they are doing Powerwalls there, and Panasonic has barely begun production of the 25700 size batteries that they will need for the 3. More smoke and mirrors wrt schedules.

    Lithium is plentiful a couple of hundred mile south of the Gigafactory, among other sources worldwide. It's cobalt that may end up being the limiting metal for volume production of batteries, not just for Tesla. My guess is that won't be a limiting factor either.

    I disagree that Apple would be able to outproduce Tesla if they announced a car anytime soon. But to put it in perspective, Toyota and Volkswagen are both in the range of 10M units a year, and Tesla I'm guessing is not quite at 100,000 units a year yet, and looks to be losing money on the 3 based on BOM analysis.

    Look, I think the Tesla is a cool company, and Elon is a farsighted guy, but this is the automotive industry, and Tesla is still losing money. What happens when every large company starts shipping EV's in volume? What happens when the Chinese start shipping inexpensive EV's?

    I've read that China is building 11 large battery manufacturing plants. Based on the scale that China can put in place rapidly, battery production may no longer be the weak link in EV manufacture, and surely, battery plants going up in Germany are going to feed MB, Volkswagen Group, and BMW to name a few.

    Oh, and there is another Solar provider coming in at 25% less cost than Solar City. Commoditization is on the way, and soon, Powerpacks and Powerwalls will be under threat for margins.

    http://www.visualcapitalist.com/china-leading-charge-lithium-ion-megafactories/

     
    This is uch a weird statement. So Tesla will fail because "Toyota and Volkswagen" produce more ICE cars right now? How does that even make sense to you? Even if they produced 10 million electric cars none of that means Tesla is going to fold because they aren't producing as many units. That's probably the dumbest reason I've ever heard as to why Tesla has no shot at success… which is something I've heard since day one and now they have preordered for more than 400k low-cost Tesla 3 models.

    And if you were paying attention at all you'd know that Tesla was producing over 2,000 cars a week as of a year ago. Even simple math will tell you that 52 × 2,000 is over 100k. Do you really think they'd have gone with a low-cost Tesla 3 if they weren't confident that they could ramp up production? Do you really believe their gigafactory will not be making batteries for their cars because their automotive department will soon be DOA? Or, are you saying that they will not be able to produce them and Musk will be effectively stealing their money because he's just a shyster who has duped us all into believing that he can be an electric car that works? None of those scenarios make sense to me.

    What's with this notion that a company can't survive if they invest in their future? Amazon is lucky to ever be in the black and they've been on top for a decade. Even as Walmart and others tried to create a web presence Amazon still persevered despite being a *new* company operating the red. And let's not forget that Apple now has deep pockets while failing at many ventures and was without profit while it was able to create the iPod despite people sounding just like you at the turn of the century by saying Apple doesn't have a chance once Microsoft jumps into the market. Then you have the iPhone and statements like"PC guys aren't going to figure this out", and you have the Macs with such few unit sales compared to all the PCs that run Windows which sound like your arguments. Apple had no chance based on your statements and, yet, they're the world's more valuable corporation. Crazy how works.
    I didn't state the Tesla would fail, but I'm not buying the hype on the company either. My point regarding the Automotive industry is that the large companies are in fact making money and Tesla, to date is not. That doesn't mean that Tesla won't, but if you look at the competition for EV's ramping up, there will be few niches that Tesla will be able to exploit merely with its "brand". I also pointed out that China is ramping up battery production, and I'm guessing that there will be plenty of buyers, domestic and otherwise. 

    Toyota has produced 6.1 million hybrids since 1997, and they are known for high quality small cars. From an engineering standpoint, there isn't all that much effort to develop an EV once you've done a hybrid. Why has Toyota waited on an EV? Maybe for the same reason that Apple had to wait for the OLED; not enough production and/or favorable pricing. Expect lots of EV's to be released in the next couple of years.

    BTW, Tesla was founded in 2003, some 14 years ago, so maybe Tesla is still in the startup phase of production, based on the age of some of the largest Automotive companies.

    http://www.thedrive.com/opinion/8019/tesla-is-screwed-once-luxury-carmakers-start-building-real-electric-cars

    https://finance.yahoo.com/m/923a59d9-b056-336d-b63b-9ff31ad399ab/ss_tesla's-cars-are-either-the.html
    1) Your comments are very one-sided and anti-Tesla. Volvo has been around for how long and Geely is making huge investments and risks to make them profitable again. Why would they even try if others will outsell them. Like I mentioned, even Tesla is outselling them and that's ICE v EV.

    2) If you're discussing EV sales then Hybrids should not be counted. It's a false equivalency. It's like saying that the iPhone was going to be a failure because dumb phones far outnumbered smartphones. Hell, even BB had an upsurge in sales because Apple made the smartphone product category popular. Tesla has done the same for other makers of EVs.

    3) China may produce something that Americans want, but that's an entirely different topic. South Korea has been producing automobiles in the US that are cheaper and more reliable for an equivalent price point and yet you'll still see plenty of people turn their nose up at something not American, or German. You'll even see people who hate Ford by love Chevy, or hate BMW but love Mercedes, and vice versa. Cars are status symbols in the US which is why you'll likely never see India's Tata take over the US market with cars.

    4) Tesla has been brilliant from the start. First a sports car that is fast and looks great, not some ugly fishbowl with 4 wheels. Then they moved to a higher-end sedan. Now, after years of effort they can finally take a step down on that financial pyramid to offer a less expensive model that multitudes can afford while still not being a cheap product. Can you think of another company that uses this model?

    5) It's been 14 years and you're still saying that any day now Tesla will be beaten by more established automobile companies. Why have they waited this long if they can simply crush Elon's flee of a company?


  • Reply 55 of 87
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 911member
    macxpress said:
    I'm actually not sure why people praise Tesla as much as they do...I mean yes, they're making fully electric cars with all of this technology but their quality is horrible! For some reason, it seems like people are oblivious to this. They think Tesla is this wonderful company who makes electric cars, not realizing that Tesla is making really bad quality cars.
    People love and cherish an idea, not so much of what is real. Sadly, that's the world we live in these days. Tesla is an idea: a futuristic high tech self driving car. People love that idea regardless of the crappy current real implementation. No doubt, giving it a few more years it will be better. That's why I prefer Apple's secrecy on their own smart car project.
  • Reply 56 of 87
    It's sad that the tech media is so lacking for anything exciting to report they keep trotting out Woz for some clickbait.
  • Reply 57 of 87
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,371member
    kevin kee said:
    macxpress said:
    I'm actually not sure why people praise Tesla as much as they do...I mean yes, they're making fully electric cars with all of this technology but their quality is horrible! For some reason, it seems like people are oblivious to this. They think Tesla is this wonderful company who makes electric cars, not realizing that Tesla is making really bad quality cars.
    People love and cherish an idea, not so much of what is real. Sadly, that's the world we live in these days. Tesla is an idea: a futuristic high tech self driving car. People love that idea regardless of the crappy current real implementation. No doubt, giving it a few more years it will be better. That's why I prefer Apple's secrecy on their own smart car project.
    1) Tesla's cars are crap? Who makes a better EV? Who Who has better self-driving SW than Tesla?

    2) You're calling Tesla an idea and saying that you love Apple's secrecy. They have real products on the road. You think this is vaporware?

    edited May 2017
  • Reply 58 of 87
    Why the media continues to go to Woz for any reference for Apple or tech in general is beyond me. He was never the visionary at Apple. He a tech geek that had a simple, hobby kinda idea that Jobs was able to transform into a business. He has had no input or impact on Apple or any tech company for over 20 years yet he continues to speak as if he 'knows all'. Maybe he should just disappear or go back to Dancing with the Stars.
  • Reply 59 of 87
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,371member
    What Tesla is doing with factory automation on a massive scale is beyond what everyone else is currently doing. This is huge investment, but the longterm investment of these robots are way in which Tesla can reduce costs down the line. This is not unlike Apple's mindset.

    edited May 2017
  • Reply 60 of 87
    macxpress said:
    I'm actually not sure why people praise Tesla as much as they do...I mean yes, they're making fully electric cars with all of this technology but their quality is horrible! For some reason, it seems like people are oblivious to this. They think Tesla is this wonderful company who makes electric cars, not realizing that Tesla is making really bad quality cars.
    Tesla is praised mainly because of Elon Musk. People, especially investors, believe this man is a real-life Tony Stark. I think most guys are in love with him. He's like some tech superstar hero to guys. I gave up hero worship when I became an adult and basically learned all humans have flaws no matter how well they can conceal them. I think Musk pursuing electric cars is great but that in no way changes the reality that most of the world isn't quite ready for electric cars (lack of charging stations). If he can change that, well, then more power to him. I still think valuing Tesla higher than Ford or GM is just ridiculous. I don't own a Tesla so I can't say whether a Tesla is the best electric vehicle money can buy. They seem like pretty cool vehicles but I don't think they're all that practical or affordable for the mass market.  I have no clue as to why GM, Ford or any other auto manufacturer can't do what Tesla is doing.

    I think Teslas have had quality problems because I hear Musk is working his employees to death and possibly cutting corners in order to meet delivery dates. However, I guess customers are happy Tesla will fly out some technician to their house to personally fix a vehicle's problems.
    edited May 2017
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