Apple's Tim Cook, other executives urge Texas not to pass anti-trans 'bathroom bill'

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 84
    AppleBumAppleBum Posts: 37unconfirmed, member
    The only way to solve this problem and make most people happy is mandating single-stall bathrooms.
  • Reply 62 of 84
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    AppleBum said:
    The only way to solve this problem and make most people happy is mandating single-stall bathrooms.
    That won't solve the issue. Read what Tellest wrote. He has stated that anything other than XX or XY—not simply male of female—are unwelcome in society. That goes well beyond a general insecurity about using a single person bathroom after someone of the opposite sex has just used it.
    fastasleep
  • Reply 63 of 84
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    Gender is a cultural construct.

    If gender is a social construct, then there is no such thing as a “gender binary.” If this is true, how can one “transition” between “genders” or be “genderfluid?”

    1) I's because it's invented that makes it possible. It's sex that can't be fluid, at least not in organisms as complex as humans.

    2) Just because some are just now realizing the shadows on the cave wall aren't all there is to see doesn't mean this is new ground. Societies throughout time have had multiple genders to suit various needs of cultural traditions and resources of the environment. If you can't wrap your head around that then consider the social construct of marriage. There's nothing natural about it for humans as an animals, but in society there are reasons why it makes sense religious texts to make this a requirement. Why it behooved the Mormons to engage in polygamy and Tibetans living on a resource deficient plateau engage in polyandry (a woman taking multiple husbands). You may say these are wrong, but would just be you imposing your narrow view of society on the rest of the world because it doesn't conform with your comfort zone.
    Excellent post.
    Soli
  • Reply 64 of 84
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    AppleBum said:
    The only way to solve this problem and make most people happy is mandating single-stall bathrooms.
    Or simply make going to the bathroom illegal. Problem solved!
    Solitallest skil
  • Reply 65 of 84
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Soli said:
    you're saying these natural variations are not welcome in society
    If all you’re going to do is invent bullshit out of thin air, why should anyone reply to you?
    your simplistic view
    The cells are diploid. It’s not a matter of opinion. It’s not my view. It’s fact. Get over it; your feelings don’t matter to fact.
    Soli said:
    He has stated that anything other than XX or XY—not simply male of female—are unwelcome in society.
    Quote the part of my post that says the word ‘society.’ Quote the part of my post that says anything like what you are saying. Do it. I’ve had enough of this fucking garbage from you (your feelings don’t matter to fact.). I’m sick and tired of seeing your dialectical bastardization of language every single day in every single aspect of your being. You’re disingenuous to the core. Bastiat had you pinned centuries ago and anyone who has actually read Marx’ works sees it in liberals instantly. I feel utter contempt.

    Objective truth exists, regardless of your objection to the statement. If you think that truth is unknowable, you have no business commenting on anything. If you think that truth is not objective, you have no need to comment on anything, because you’re never wrong. But if you think that truth actually exists, then there is a way to discover it. And gee willikers, that just might mean you’re wrong about something once in a while. Get over it.
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 66 of 84
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    Soli said:
    you're saying these natural variations are not welcome in society
    If all you’re going to do is invent bullshit out of thin air, why should anyone reply to you?
    You're the one that choose to use aberration and frame it as a pejorative instead of something more nuetral, like variation.


    aberration  andab·er·ra·tion
    ˌabəˈrāSH(ə)n/
    noun
    a departure from what is normal, usual, or expected, typically one that is unwelcome.
    fastasleep
  • Reply 67 of 84
    singularitysingularity Posts: 1,328member
    I think it's time to nuke this thread from orbit.
    The thought of treating people with respect and dignity over doing something as simple as going to the toilet brings out some pretty strange thoughts in some.
    Solifastasleep
  • Reply 68 of 84
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    I think it's time to nuke this thread from orbit.
    The thought of treating people with respect and dignity over doing something as simple as going to the toilet brings out some pretty strange thoughts in some.
    When people start saying that you're not welcome if you don't have the right chromosomes it's time to nuke the thread.
    singularityfastasleep
  • Reply 69 of 84
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member

    My views on subjects like this tend to be simple, as long as what someone is doing does not have any baring on what others are doing, they should be allowed to do what they want. The government needs to basically stay out of everyone homes and bedrooms. I personally never understood why people got so fixated on what other people did or believed especially in their homes.

    On this matter I understand Apple and many companies point of view, they want to hire the best people and when state create laws which again deal with people's personal matters it make it hard hire and keep people in those states. However, Apple and other company are now playing the opposite game the government is trying to do. Apple and others are only looking at this from one point of view.

    I am still not sure how I personally feel about this topic. I tend to think, let people go where they like and be done with it. Why does anyone have a right to tell anyone which bathroom they can use. With that said, I have travel places in the world where the bathroom are unisex or no gender and this was long before this issue has become mainstream. I can tell you I personally never felt comfortable going into a bathroom with a women in there or being in one and having a woman walk in. I been in place they did not have stalls or such as we have in the US, so everyone gets to see what everyone is doing. I also been to a bathhouse where it not separated by sex.  I also had kids and when they were young and need to take them to the bathroom which one do you go into. I never like taking my daughter into the men's room for the obvious reason and plus from time to time guys are not the most respectful with their language or personal habits and I did not want to have to deal with that with my kids.

    From what I know about these laws, this is not about people who had a sex change, they are talking about people who identify to another sex. i.e. a guy who feels they are a women and women who feels they are a guy. How would you feel if someone of the opposite sex showed up in the same bathroom or shower room as you. Honestly, I do not think men care if a women or anyone comes into the guy's room. I have been to enough sporting activities where the women's room lines are long and the women head into the men's room and no one cares. However, try the reverse, women are not too happy when a guy shows up in the women's room.

    This why I think everyone only sees this as one sided. All I hear is it discriminate against someone who thinks they are the opposite sex and does not allow them to go where they feel most comfortable. What about the other people in the same bathroom or shower. What about how they feel, does their feeling or comfort level mater. We are not talking about other countries where they do not draw a line in the bathrooms and such, in the US it the norm here a you just can not say one day it does not matter anyone can use any bathroom/shower room they like.

    The YMCA I go to, a number of years ago when they remodel the gym ended up putting in multiply bathroom/shower/locker rooms. We have the traditional men's and women's, we also have kids (boy and girls) from 6 to 18 (no adults allowed), we have a family room which family with their kids can use for kids from 0 to 6, they also have a private room. Grant it kids 0 to 18 can use the adult rooms as long as their parents are with them, otherwise they are not allowed in the adult bathroom. Look at what this YMCA did to address various people concerns about protecting children, image what they would have to do to address some concerns about how they identify themselves. But the way these bathroom and dressing facilities take up a huge amount of space which leaves less space for activities. I personally do not use the bathroom/locker rooms at the YMCA, especially when my kids were younger for all these bathroom rules they created. I was never sure what I was allowed to do.

  • Reply 70 of 84
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    I think it's time to nuke this thread from orbit.
    I said that from the beginning, yeah. Liberals can’t handle facts that hurt their feelings, so they can’t allow them to be seen anywhere.
    Soli said:
    You're the one that choose to use aberration and frame it as a pejorative instead of something more nuetral, like variation.
    Yeah, see, there’s a reason the word was chosen. There’s nothing neutral about a genetic DISORDER. Oh no, what an evil word! I used another one! Stop fucking trying to mollycoddle the world with your dialectical perversion of language. It’s not fucking okay. That goes for the genetic state, too. Your use of ‘variation’ implies that it’s on the same order as a goddamn different color on a painting, which isn’t a remotely accurate assessment. It further implies normalcy. It’s not normal. Hence aberration. Hence disorder. Hence imbalance. You want to talk about genetic problems? We’ll fucking talk about genetic problems. Have you campaigned for the legalization of sibling incest yet? If not, you’re a fucking bigot. Right? After all, a Habsburg Jaw is just a variation. It’s perfectly normal. My sister has Down Syndrome. Should she breed? Should the burden be increased? Diploid cells have two natural states. That’s the definition of the fucking word ‘diploid.’ You want to change that? Build a time machine and change what the prefix ‘di-‘ means. Otherwise you’re literally The Party and this is 1984. Fuck your goodthink. Truth above all.
    Soli said:
    When people start saying that you're not welcome if you don't have the right chromosomes it's time to nuke the thread.
    Eat shit. I didn’t say it. Apologize for your libel.
  • Reply 71 of 84
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    I think it's time to nuke this thread from orbit.
    I said that from the beginning, yeah. Liberals can’t handle facts that hurt their feelings, so they can’t allow them to be seen anywhere.
    And yet I'm not the one bothered by other humans who need to urinate or weirded out by a variety of nature.
    Eat shit. I didn’t say it. Apologize for your libel.

    aberration |ˌabəˈrāSH(ə)n|
    noun
    -a departure from what is normal, usual, or expected, typically one that is unwelcome.

    There are literally hundreds of words to choose from that can describe a minority within a society that doesn't describe them as unwelcome. You purposely chose the one that did.

    I can't wait to read your posts the next time honors someone gay, black, or Muslim on their homepage¡
    singularityfastasleep
  • Reply 72 of 84
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,297member
    Soli said:
    holyone said:
    I mean if I was a guy trapped in a girls body not being able to wiz standing up would bother me more than not being allowed in with the fellers no ?
    But they don't want you to do #2 in the women's facilities. They also don't want you to be in the men's facilities dressed as a women.

    It's a choice to be gay so you should be able to choose to not use the bathroom (no logical errors there¡).


    PS: Did anyone of us grow up in a home with separate bathrooms for each sexes or did we just use the bathroom that were closest to? Over the past year I've seen many places around me switch their male and female placards on single-occupancy bathrooms to be for either sex… as it should be.
    More places are going the route of single person bathroom. This kind of solves the issue. Anyone or anything can use it. This doesn't really solve the issue at like sports arena's Where the Men's bathroom may just have a couple stalls to do #2 and then a big long troth to piss in . I don't want to be taking a piss with a guy next to me in a dress. What women want strange men in the women's rest room? Going by gender is as fair as you can get. Otherwise toss out the Men and Women's bathrooms and just have a big old Unisex bathroom.
  • Reply 73 of 84
    maciekskontaktmaciekskontakt Posts: 1,169member
    Appleinsider,

    Please switch to technology subjects. I am fed up with your editors who smear with their agenda contradicting others' point of view - and quite frankly sometimes making idiotic points - while disabling ability to comment or discuss. Stick to technology developments - not to politics... or "restroom affairs".
    tallest skilSpamSandwich
  • Reply 74 of 84
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    jbdragon said:
    Soli said:
    holyone said:
    I mean if I was a guy trapped in a girls body not being able to wiz standing up would bother me more than not being allowed in with the fellers no ?
    But they don't want you to do #2 in the women's facilities. They also don't want you to be in the men's facilities dressed as a women.

    It's a choice to be gay so you should be able to choose to not use the bathroom (no logical errors there¡).


    PS: Did anyone of us grow up in a home with separate bathrooms for each sexes or did we just use the bathroom that were closest to? Over the past year I've seen many places around me switch their male and female placards on single-occupancy bathrooms to be for either sex… as it should be.
    More places are going the route of single person bathroom. This kind of solves the issue.
    It only circumvents the issue for some because it becomes out-of-sight-out-of mind, but it doesn't solve inherent bigotry and irrationality of it. It's not different than having Whites Only and Colored bathrooms… which wasn't that long ago.

    Anyone or anything can use it.
    Come on, man, you're better than that.

    I don't want to be taking a piss with a guy next to me in a dress.
    Do you otherwise want to urinate next to other guys? I certainly don't. I also don't want to go in the bushes outside my house, but there have been an occasion or two where that was necessary with all the bathrooms being utilized on some rare occasion with company staying over. What's the big deal about clothing? This silly association with attire is why Indian Sikh are murdered every year in the US.

    Going by gender is as fair as you can get.
    You mean sex, otherwise you're suggesting that a crossdresser or a lesbian that looks very male (as seen in the picture previously posted) should not have any access.

    And what do you do if you're a father with his daughter or a mother with their son? No matter what you choose you're breaking the the conservative law about bathroom rights. Personally, I just don't want some creeper in the bathroom so I'd prefer single-person restrooms, especially if I'm sending a child in there.

    This all comes down to an irrational fear. It's why conservative Americans are so afraid of Muslims in the Middle East when they're more likely to be killed by domestic terrorists…and someone who identifies as their own "race. Are you bothered when a black men uses the stall next to you? I'm guessing this has zero effect on you, but you jump back your comments 50 years I'm betting you'd have the same arguments because they looked different or you felt their culture wasn't compatible with yours. How about integrated schools or interracial coupling? This is an issue now because of the Christian Right hates the LGBTQ community despite the shocking number of their politicians being caught in lude acts (which is hilarious in its hypocrisy), but like all the wars they wage in this country they will eventually lose.
    edited May 2017 singularityfastasleep
  • Reply 75 of 84
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Soli said:
    humans who need to urinate
    It’s the simplest concept in the world. We’ve already covered this.
    Soli said:
    It's not different than having Whites Only and Colored bathrooms… which wasn't that long ago.
    Fine. Have sex-agnostic group bathrooms. You’re a bigot if you don’t support it. Because men and women are the same. Identical. It literally doesn’t matter. Right?
    Come on, man, you're better than that.
    Aberrations are aberrations. Get over it.
    And what do you do if you're a father with his daughter or a mother with their son? No matter what you choose you’re breaking the the conservative law about bathroom rights.
    Don’t be fucking flippant. You know what children are. You know how societies have operated for millennia.
    This all comes down to an irrational fear.
    Prove the “irrationality” when the head of the campaign for tranny bathrooms is a convicted child sex offender. But oh, excuse me, I’m being a bigot again. How dare I say anything about “pedosexuals.” They’re normal, right? They’re just a “variation.” Right? Love knows no age! Childfucker Love Matters! RIGHT? Or are you just a fucking bigot, too? I bet you are. Nothing but a bigot. What a shame. Don’t you know you’re on the wrong side of history? Childfuckers will get legal rights and you will have to hire them and accept them in your community. When your 7-year-old daughter brings home a 20-year-old man, oh won’t the neighbors click their tongues in disgust as you kick him out the door. It’s inevitable, you know. Just accept it. You’re always wrong, after all. Remember that thing you’ve been told since you were fucking born? You’re always wrong.
    It's why conservative Americans are so afraid of Muslims in the Middle East
    Yeah, it’s totally irrational to be afraid of a group of people whose foundational ideological tenet is “kill everyone on Earth who isn’t like us.” Completely nonsensical. There’s nothing to be afraid of there.
    when they're more likely to be killed by domestic terrorists…
    Who are muslim, so hey there you go.
    [more total bullshit]
    If you cared to know any facts about genetics, you’d see where you were wrong already. Keep blathering on with your lies and see how far it gets you anymore.
    …like all the wars they wage in this country they will eventually lose.
    You’re in for a fun decade. The future’s so bright you won’t need eyes to see it. Execution for the practice of usury is even in the cards. Want to deal another hand, or are you out now?
  • Reply 76 of 84
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,394member
    Men and women should use separate bathrooms. Period. there is freedom for those who want to "identify" however they please. Great. 

    But it shouldnt trample on the values values of others. No daughter should have a mans sexual way of identifying himself, surgically or otherwise, invade her privacy and vice versa. 

    Apple amd and other tech companies shouldn't be voicing their CEOs personal values in trying to influence state governments in such matters. 
    How many people normally invade your privacy when using a public restroom?
  • Reply 77 of 84
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,394member
    a bunch of bigoted bullshit
    As someone who spends quite a bit of time with many delightful members of the LGBTQ community, I tend to think that your hateful sexist/racist/homophobic rants in this forum seem to indicate the mental illness lies with you. You may wish for a eugenics-fueled Handmaid's Tale kind of world because you cherrypicked whatever data you think justifies your shitty worldview, but asserting that your perception is the only truth while chastising those who are more accepting and understanding of the fact that things are not nearly so black and white as being the narrow minded ones would be comical, if it wasn't so depressing.

    Just like your tabloid article links in another thread "supporting" your assertions regarding Muslim "no-go" areas were bullshit, your "Prove the “irrationality” when the head of the campaign for tranny bathrooms is a convicted child sex offender." link is also bullshit:

    WHAT'S TRUE

    Charlotte businessman Chad Sevearance was convicted of sexual contact with minors in 1998 and supported Charlotte's anti-discrimination ordinance. 

    WHAT'S FALSE

    Sevearance was not the "leader" of efforts in Charlotte or North Carolina regarding bathroom-related ordinances.

    From: http://www.snopes.com/nc-bathroom-bill-opposition-leader-a-sex-offender/

    So, not really apropos of anything. How many transgendered people are kid touchers versus conservative "family first" lawmakers? Or just non-trans people in general? Do you actually care for real statistics or just alternative facts that conveniently support your worldview?

    And it's funny, you seem to do this a lot yet repeatedly dismissing all "liberals" as being the ones anathema to facts. 

    Call it liberal, marxist, lefty, whatever pejorative term you like — others would describe it as having empathy and being a decent fucking human being.

    singularityreefoid
  • Reply 78 of 84
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    a bunch of bigoted bullshit
    Either prove it false or don’t reply when it’s truth.
    I tend to think…
    Facts don’t care what you think, though. Your opinions are irrelevant if they’re objectively wrong.
    …hateful sexist/racist/homophobic…
    If you can reply without buzzwords (and lies), feel free. As it stands…
    …the mental illness lies with you.
    Not under any definition of the word. Reminder at this point that words don’t mean what you want them to mean. They mean what they mean.
    …you cherrypicked whatever data…
    Prove your claim or don’t make it. It’s literally that simple. The cherrypickers are your brethren. In EVERY field, it seems.
    …shitty worldview…
    Prove your claim or don’t make it. I welcome any correction where I am objectively wrong. You have posted no corrections. Is it because you are not smart enough to know where I am wrong, that I am wrong, or about what I am wrong? Or any combination of the three? Or is it because I am not wrong and there is nothing to correct?

    I will now rewrite some of those sentences so that you can’t hide behind pretending not to know what dialectic is and to further your comprehension that when I say ‘objective truth’, I mean the topic itself.

    I welcome any correction where I have misrepresented information. You have posted no corrections to the aforementioned statements. Is it because you are not smart enough to know what is wrong in the above, that anything in the above is wrong, or about what the above is wrong? Or any combination of the three? Or is it because there is nothing wrong in what is posted above, and therefore nothing to correct?
    …asserting that your perception is the only truth…
    No, no, no. That’s not how fact works. State your complaint again, but this time don’t frame it using your dialectical model. Restate it using words that are not, as you would say, “toxic.” After all, you wouldn’t want to be a bigot, would you? You’re being quite bigoted thus far. Where’s your tolerance, hmm? Why are you being intolerant?
    …chastising those who are more accepting and understanding of…
    Of what? What are you tolerating? You don’t even know. That’s a statement of fact: you don’t even fucking know what you are tolerating. You don’t know what tolerance is.

    Tolerance is the virtue of the man without conviction.
    – G. K. Chesterton

    A country is not only what it does, but what it tolerates.
    – Kurt Tucholsky

    Societies are far gone in depravity when to toleration is considered a good in itself, without regard to the thing tolerated.
    – A. K. Chesterton

    The cultured man has the obligation to be intolerant.
    – Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Political correctness does not legislate tolerance; it only organizes hatred.
    – Jacques Barzun
    …were bullshit…
    Prove your claim or don’t make it.
    Sevearance was not the "leader" of efforts in Charlotte or North Carolina regarding bathroom-related ordinances.
    Thanks for admitting that he is exactly what I said he is and that you were wrong. I said nothing about a specific state or city.
    How many transgendered people are kid touchers versus conservative "family first" lawmakers?
    Statistically? Let’s see.

    In research with 942 nonclinical adult participants, gay men and lesbian women reported a significantly higher rate of childhood molestation than did heterosexual men and women. Forty-six percent of the homosexual men in contrast to 7% of the heterosexual men reported homosexual molestation. Twenty-two percent of lesbian women in contrast to 1% of heterosexual women reported homosexual molestation. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11501300

    Gee. How about that.
    Do you actually care for real statistics…
    Yeah, that’d be why every single thing I said is backed by science and OBJECTIVE FACT, rather than “WAAAA MOMMY IT FEELS GOOD TO LET ANYONE DO ANYTHING THEY WANT SO LET’S DO IT WAAAAAA YOU’RE A BIGOT BECAUSE YOU TAKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS,” which is–without exaggeration–the FOUNDATION of your ideology. If I’m wrong, prove it. This “live and let live” bullshit is the basis of all modern liberal doctrine.
    …alternative facts…
    Want to know how I know you’re a moral relativist who doesn’t believe that the concept of truth exists? I’ll give you a hint: It’s because you pervert language like this and think you can get away with it. The idea that all truth is subjective leads to a bleeding heart, i.e. someone who shows sympathy to everyone. Since truth is subjective and everyone has their own truth, then everyone is deserving of sympathy. Two notions are further implied. Everyone’s truth is equal, thus all truths (opinions) are equally valid. Further, the equality of opinion implies the equality of equal desert. Everyone deserves equal sympathy. The practical consequence of these notions is the following: the truth of the sage is equal to the truth of the sophist. The murderer is worthy of the same sympathy as the saint. Thus, the liberal says, “Give us Barabas!”
    And it’s funny, you seem to do this a lot…
    Almost as though everything I’ve said is fact and you have yet to post a single damn thing to refute a word of it. You want more on trannies? I have more. And no, my use of the word is not “hateful”, as many of them self-identify by it. I will keep using it.

    SRS doesn’t work. Hormones don’t work. Both of these things only make the problem much, much worse.



    This is Dennis Avner, the Cat Man. Heard of him? He was transgender and “transpecies.” He believed himself to be a female tiger. So he had all the surgeries he wanted. He had his teeth filed into fangs, his lips, nose and ears surgically altered, his body tattooed, got contacts, and purchased an animatronic tail, and what ended up happening at the end of his transformation? The same thing that happens to most trannies, he killed himself.

    Gender Identity Disorder is similar to Body Integrity Identity Disorder, wherein someone believes a part of their party is foreign to them, and if they just cut it off their life will improve. Fittingly, there’s a lot of overlap between the two conditions. In fact, you may as well call them the same. It’s also very similar to people addicted to plastic surgery. Women getting breast reductions, and then implants, and then smaller implants, then larger. Liposuction, nose jobs, botox–on and on; it never ends. They end up looking freakish and malformed and are never able to fix what they perceive is wrong with them.

    Trannies have high levels of overlap with autism and mental retardation, as well. A notable anecdote can be found in I Think We’re Alone Now, a documentary about the stalkers of some pop singer named Tiffany. The second stalker followed is a sad case of a man who lived his whole life normally. He was straight, happy, and very intelligent, and then he suffered a traumatic brain injury. When he woke up, his speech was slower and he couldn’t process things as quickly. He suddenly felt he was gay, and not long after that decided he was a woman. You think there’s something wrong with you, something maybe surgery can fix, but it never does. Now what happens to someone when they finish their “transformation”–when they’ve made the change they thought would fix them, and none of their actual problems have gone away. Add to that the devastating effect bombarding your body with hormones would have on anyone. Then consider that you have to keep taking those hormones for the rest of your life, because as soon as you stop the changes go away since the human body is absolutely astonishing at fixing itself. Then you find you can’t really look how you want to look; you end up looking at best neither male nor female, having a voice that’s instantly jarring and a body covered in scars. You’ll never be able to reproduce the way someone the gender you believe you are does. If you were MtF you’re not getting your balls back. If you were FtM, you’re not getting your boobs back.

    Now magnify that even further. Suppose you’re surrounded by a media telling you this is the right decision for you, that you’ll be better and should be celebrated for it, and you get into a community of other people all going through the same thing, and they’re all supportive but aggressive and irrational, and then once you reach the end of your “transition” you feel it was a mistake, and suddenly all those family members and counselors and members of your “community” who supported you suddenly turn their back on you. Admitting you could be wrong means admitting they were wrong. Now all that progressive, empty-headed support is gone and you’re left still being bombarded by those hormones in a mutilated body. So ask yourself, who hates these people? The ones who want them to be happy and continue to live, or the ones who are perfectly fine watching them ruin their lives and kill themselves because to do otherwise would conflict with their political dogma?

    Johns Hopkins Psychiatrist: Transgender is ‘Mental Disorder;’ Sex Change ‘Biologically Impossible’
    https://archive.is/k9YGX
    Dr. Paul R. McHugh, the former psychiatrist-in-chief for Johns Hopkins Hospital and its current Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry, said that transgenderism is a “mental disorder” that merits treatment, that sex change is “biologically impossible,” and that people who promote sexual reassignment surgery are collaborating with and promoting a mental disorder. The transgendered person’s disorder, said Dr. McHugh, is in the person’s “assumption” that they are different than the physical reality of their body, their maleness or femaleness, as assigned by nature. It is a disorder similar to a “dangerously thin” person suffering anorexia who looks in the mirror and thinks they are “overweight,” said McHugh. He also reported on a new study showing that the suicide rate among transgendered people who had reassignment surgery is 20 times higher than the suicide rate among non-transgender people. Dr. McHugh further noted studies from Vanderbilt University and London’s Portman Clinic of children who had expressed transgender feelings but for whom, over time, 70%-80% “spontaneously lost those feelings.”

    Transgenderism Is A Mental Illness, Not A Civil Rights Issue
    https://archive.is/jcIxp
    If someone came to a doctor and asked him to cut off a perfectly healthy arm because it just felt “wrong” for the arm to be there, should the doctor do it? This isn’t an idle question because this does happen with a mental illness called Body Integrity Identity Disorder (BIID). People who have it feel as if they’re not supposed to have a certain body part, like an arm or leg. As a general rule, doctors won’t remove a healthy body part; so some of these poor deluded people crush, mangle, burn, or otherwise deliberately destroy their own arms or legs in order to get a surgeon to slice them off. This raises a question: Are surgeons who refuse to remove healthy limbs from people with BIID doing them a service because they’re mentally ill or are they denying them their civil rights? MOST of us would say that a surgeon who refuses to cut off a healthy leg is doing the right thing. Of course, not everyone would agree. In fact, there are some people who will tell you that mental illness is a “super power.” Additionally, your mortality rate will be 51% higher than the general population because of suicide and all the female hormones you’ve pumped into your body en masse. In fact, the suicide rate for people who are transgender is 25 times that of the general population according to the American Psychological Association. http://www.eje-online.org/content/164/4/635.full.pdf

    Transsexualism, Dissociation, and Child Abuse
    https://archive.is/kG48B
    Sixty percent reported one or more types of severe child abuse. In the course of discussing other issues, participants also reported having experienced many of the commonly cited initial and long-term effects of child abuse, including fear, anxiety and depression, eating disorders, substance abuse, excessive aggression, and suicide ideation and attempts. [...] I have speculated, as have some of the participants themselves, that in some cases transsexualism may be an adaptive extreme dissociative swival response to severe child abuse. Most people with GID show effects of child abuse, even 60% openly reported serve ones. So instead of being a ‘genetic’ problem, he (and the people he interviewed) speculated that it was an adaptive response to this early child abuse.

    Psychiatric Comorbidity of Gender Identity Disorders: A Survey Among Dutch Psychiatrists
    https://archive.is/3Rwrm
    These respondents reported on 584 patients with cross-gender identification. In 225 patients (39%), gender identity disorder was regarded as the primary diagnosis. For the remaining 359 patients (61%), cross-gender identification was comorbid with other psychiatric disorders. In 270 (75%) of these 359 patients, cross-gender identification was interpreted as an epiphenomenon of other psychiatric illnesses, notably personality, mood, dissociative, and psychotic disorders. In around 75% of the patients, GID was seen as the result of other personality problems / illnesses.

    The frequency of personality disorders in patients with gender identity disorder
    https://archive.is/RMNa1
    The frequency of personality disorders was 81.4%. The most frequent personality disorder was narcissistic personality disorder (57.1%) and the least was borderline personality disorder. The average number of diagnoses was 3 per patient.

    Personality Disorders in Persons with Gender Identity Disorder
    https://archive.is/PHs9D
    Persons with GID compared to cisgender heterosexuals have higher presence of PDs, particularly Paranoid PD, avoidant PDs, and comorbid PDs. In addition. MtF persons are characterized by a more severe psychopathological profile. Short: They do have more PDs and MtF are even more damaged then FtM.

    Increased Gender Variance in Autism Spectrum Disorders and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder
    https://archive.is/gLdzi
    Evidence suggests over-representation of autism spectrum disorders (ASDs) and behavioral difficulties among people referred for gender issues [...] As compared to non-referred comparisons, participants with ASD were 7.59x more likely to express gender variance; participants with ADHD were 6.64 times more likely to express gender variance. Autists have around 8x more GID and people with ADHD around 7x the average.

    Gender Identity Disorder and Schizophrenia: Neurodevelopmental Disorders with Common Causal Mechanisms?
    https://archive.is/mV9Ic
    Clinical evidence suggests that schizophrenia occurs in patients with GID at rates higher than in the general population and that patients with GID may have schizophrenia-like personality traits. Conversely, patients with schizophrenia may experience alterations in gender identity and gender role perception. Neurobiological research, including brain imaging and studies of finger length ratio and handedness, suggests that both these disorders are associated with altered cerebral sexual dimorphism and changes in cerebral lateralization. Various mechanisms, such as Toxoplasma infection, reduced levels of brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF), early childhood adversity, and links with autism spectrum disorders, may account for some of this overlap. So people with GID are similar to those who have schizophrenia-like personality traits which suggests that something in the brain is fucked up which can stem from infections, autism, some brain imbalance or childhood problems.

    Psychiatric Axis I Comorbidities among Patients with Gender Dysphoria
    https://archive.is/dycBX
    Eighty-three patients requesting sex reassignment surgery (SRS) were recruited and assessed through the Persian Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-IV Axis I disorders (SCID-I). Results. Fifty-seven (62.7%) patients had at least one psychiatric comorbidity. Major depressive disorder (33.7%), specific phobia (20.5%), and adjustment disorder (15.7%) were the three most prevalent disorders.

    Transsexuals are four times more likely than the average person to be infected with HIV.
    https://archive.is/6Evel

    41% of transsexuals have tried and failed to commit suicide.
    https://archive.is/6Evel

    Transsexuals who undergo sex reassignment surgery are more likely to commit suicide.
    https://archive.is/05VoZ

    53% of mothers of transsexual children have Borderline Personality Disorder, compared to only 6% of mothers of normal children.
    https://archive.is/xZ8Ie

    16% of transsexuals have been sent to jail or prison, compared to 2.7% of the general population.
    https://archive.is/m72PH
    others would describe it as having empathy and being a decent fucking human being.

    I don’t give a shit about your feelings if they contradict truth. If it makes you feel good to think that 2+2=5, then I’ll kick you in the fucking face–if I have to, and only if I have to–in order to keep your delusions from infecting others. It’s empathy to correct you when you are wrong, not to let you wallow in stupidity. There’s not a damn thing decent about letting the mentally ill COMMIT SUICIDE because it would hurt their feelings to tell them they are OBJECTIVELY WRONG. Meditate on your beliefs and ask yourself why you believe what you believe. You don’t believe that truth exists, but here’s the thing: no one sane gives a fuck. Because truth exists whether you want to believe in it or not.

    Short version: Prove wrong any of the content above where it is wrong. Do not reply to things that are not written. Do not assume something means something if you don’t know what that something is. Ask questions about things you do not understand.

  • Reply 79 of 84
    libertyforalllibertyforall Posts: 1,418member
    Soli said:
     This is out of control! Use the damn bathroom for the gender you were born as!    Isn't everyone tired of the scammers out there saying that they're a woman when they are really TS or TG?!   Enough is enough! 
    No one is born a gender. Gender is a cultural construct. What you're thinking of is sex.

    Based on your comments I'm guessing you'd be unhappy if a male dressed as a woman came out of a bathroom for men, and yet you stated you seem to want that person to use the bathroom for men. Should we assume that you also want that person to dress in a way that makes you feel more comfortable regardless of how it makes them feel?

    What about naturally intersex individuals. Do they get no bathroom rights because they are born with both male and female genitalia or are you saying that the percentage is so low that we can disregard their existence in society altogether because it doesn't fit into a neat the simple like construct that make us feel safe?
    Sex, gender, it's generally the same thing, I mean what percentage of the population is at odds with the two?  Those with a discrepancy I am guessing are victim of estrogen mimickers/pesticides/GMO foods ingested by their parents/them, possibly birth aberrations/chromosome abnormalities.  These things happen.  

    Intersex?  Aka hermaphrodites -- that is rare and both organs do not usually function.  I mean what percent of the population is one?  Very few.  
    tallest skil
  • Reply 80 of 84
    libertyforalllibertyforall Posts: 1,418member
     This is out of control! Use the damn bathroom for the gender you were born as!    Isn't everyone tired of the scammers out there saying that they're a woman when they are really TS or TG?!   Enough is enough! 
    If my half-sister did that in a redneck state she'd be lucky to get out alive. She's a male to female transsexual and finished her transition 10 years ago. She is legally a woman right down to a birth certificate, but had the misfortune to be born into a male body.
    She was a wreck as a person before she came out. Now she runs a very successful business ($20M revenue last year) because she can be herself. If this goes through she will add TX to the list of states that she can't travel to along with NC and OK.
    That is their loss not hers.

    You are talking about a male with aberrations.  I would never have any interest in someone who was not a woman through and through, trans is just WEIRD and UNAPPEALING.  Who knows what happens to organs and functionality after undergoing these procedures.  Someone like that is not of any interest to me, that means I do not expect a TS/TG to tell me they are a woman when they are not.  That is not a woman and never will be.  I never want to be misled.  A TS/TG is a TS/TG.  
    tallest skil
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