Apple Pay person-to-person transfers will be free with debit card, incur 3% fee with credi...

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 33
    boltsfan17boltsfan17 Posts: 2,161member
    sflocal said:
    I'm sure MCX's CurrentC is prepping the next big competition to ApplePay.  /s
    CurrentC Generation 2 is just around the corner.
  • Reply 22 of 33
    boltsfan17boltsfan17 Posts: 2,161member
    Soli said:
    1) So I use a credit card to send someone $100 do they get $97 or do I get charged $103. I'm guessing the latter.

    2) Will using a CC work like a purchase since it's going through Green Dot or will this work like a cash advance, which has higher interest rates and different term limits?
    Regarding 2, I would imagine it would be similar to sending money via PayPal and the charge on your CC would be like a purchase. If not, that would be pretty unfortunate. The APR rates on a cash advance are outrageous. 
    edited June 2017
  • Reply 23 of 33
    zimmiezimmie Posts: 239member
    Soli said:
    1) So I use a credit card to send someone $100 do they get $97 or do I get charged $103. I'm guessing the latter.

    2) Will using a CC work like a purchase since it's going through Green Dot or will this work like a cash advance, which has higher interest rates and different term limits?
    1) If you transfer $100, the recipient will get $97. This is how credit cards work everywhere in the U.S. The price advertised is the price the customer pays, and the fees come out of what the merchant gets. Most credit card processing agreements actually stipulate a merchant is not allowed to advertise different prices for cash/debit versus credit.

    2) Whether this will hit your card as a purchase or cash advance depends. I'm sure Apple wants to treat all ApplePay transactions exactly the same, so they will probably try to do it as a purchase. They have rolled over for service providers before, though (adding special support to allow telcos to charge more for tethering). This is high-profile enough that I suspect the banks will demand "innovation". Unfortunately, their idea of "innovation" is limited to new ways to hide nonsense fees. Your bill, now 65% more inscrutable!

    Banks will definitely want it processed as a cash advance because it increases their fee income and reduces their liability.
    edited June 2017
  • Reply 24 of 33
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 31,191member
    zoetmb said:
    This all sounds very un-Apple like.   Hope they clean this up before launch.
    Apple has Susan L. Wagner, a cofounder of BlackRock and someone who could easily advise Apple about creating their own financial services division, which could easily replace whatever Green Dot brings to the table. Imagine it:  "Apple Financial" or "Apple Banking Services" or whatever. I find it insane that one of the most profitable companies in the world would want to leave such a sensitive service up to a third party provider.
    edited June 2017 bshanklostkiwi
  • Reply 25 of 33
    crispydscrispyds Posts: 2member
    Soli said:
    1) So I use a credit card to send someone $100 do they get $97 or do I get charged $103. I'm guessing the latter.

    2) Will using a CC work like a purchase since it's going through Green Dot or will this work like a cash advance, which has higher interest rates and different term limits?
      The answer to question number one is that the person sending always pays the fee. You would send $103 and the person you are sending to would receive $100.  Question number two has not been officially answered to my knowledge. 

     I love that Apple has gotten into this  space. I am a big fan of Square Cash as I use Square Register/Point of Sale in my salon. It is super simple and easy to use. The only drawback is designating bank accounts/credit cards on which to either deposit or draw on.  You can only have one single debit card and one single credit card active in the app at one time. Owning multiple businesses I have five different debit cards both personal and professional. Apple answers this question by integrating wallet into the experience where I have all of my credit/debit cards stored so that I can easily pick a different one each time I send/receive cash. 
    edited June 2017 bshanksuperkloton
  • Reply 26 of 33
    Regarding Green Dot Bank.

    I can only give you my opinion and experience as Green Dot and Go Bank Card customer.  Both Green Dot and GoBank are a part of the Green Dot Bank card services provided by Green Dot Corporation - GoBank is a brand of Green Dot Bank, Member FDIC, which also operates under the brands Green Dot Bank and Bonneville Bank. Deposits under any of these trade names are deposits with a single FDIC-insured bank, Green Dot Bank, and are aggregated for deposit insurance coverage.

    This being said, I have heard of some horror stories about Green Dot, but I can only say that what I read was basically people who have their cards and services really do not read or bother to understand the Terms of service.  Instead that part of their mailer which comes with their card is generally thrown in the trash and then when problems arise The Bank is then blamed.   I am not saying any BANK is innocent only from my experience as a previous contractor to one of the Nations largest Banks. 

    What I highly recommend is to take the time to read any discloures you receive or is posted on Apple, Green Dot's Website as regards to their policy and how they handle transactions.  A simple 20 minutes of your time will help you and save you and the bank along with a headache.  My biggest grip with any customer who banked with the bank I worked for was the number one excuse that they didn't read any disclosure about their account which details your rights, the banks rights, your expectations as a customer and what you should expect from your bank and any and all fees and how to avoid them.  Now again, I mention NOT all banks and even your number one bank may not be honest or perfect and you have a right to fight for your money.  However, saying you didn't get any disclosure when you open an account is a flat out LIE!  Why? Number one the banks are required by Federal LAW to provide you with disclosures, and Fee schedules when you open an account and any time the bank makes changes to it policy regarding that account type.  And secondly 9 times out of 10 there is online banking and when you login or set it up you are also provided with these disclosures. Just because you decided NOT to read them does not eliminate your responsibility as the account holder/owner.

    In the end, if you are concerned about Apple's partnership with Green Dot Bank I suggest you do some research about the service, green dot bank.  And either don't use the Apple Pay P2P service or start small and see how it works out for you. Apple provides disclosures and your bank provides these regarding how Apple Pay works, your responsibility in using the services, Apple's role, and your Banks Role and their responsibilities. 
    2old4funtgr1
  • Reply 27 of 33
    carnegiecarnegie Posts: 726member
    zimmie said:
    Soli said:
    1) So I use a credit card to send someone $100 do they get $97 or do I get charged $103. I'm guessing the latter.

    2) Will using a CC work like a purchase since it's going through Green Dot or will this work like a cash advance, which has higher interest rates and different term limits?
    1) If you transfer $100, the recipient will get $97. This is how credit cards work everywhere in the U.S. The price advertised is the price the customer pays, and the fees come out of what the merchant gets. Most credit card processing agreements actually stipulate a merchant is not allowed to advertise different prices for cash/debit versus credit.

    2) Whether this will hit your card as a purchase or cash advance depends. I'm sure Apple wants to treat all ApplePay transactions exactly the same, so they will probably try to do it as a purchase. They have rolled over for service providers before, though (adding special support to allow telcos to charge more for tethering). This is high-profile enough that I suspect the banks will demand "innovation". Unfortunately, their idea of "innovation" is limited to new ways to hide nonsense fees. Your bill, now 65% more inscrutable!

    Banks will definitely want it processed as a cash advance because it increases their fee income and reduces their liability.
    That (i.e. what I've bolded from your post above) used to be the case. But with the passage of Dodd-Frank, payment networks are prohibited from prohibiting merchants from offering discounts for paying with, e.g., cash or debit cards rather than, e.g., credit cards.

    Additionally, because of a legal settlement reached in 2013, Visa and MasterCard have to allow merchants in most states to apply surcharges for purchases made with credit cards rather than, e.g., cash, so long as those merchants abide by certain rules in applying those surcharges. Some states still have laws against such surcharges, so they can't be applied in those states.
  • Reply 28 of 33
    bshankbshank Posts: 162member
    crispyds said:
    Soli said:
    1) So I use a credit card to send someone $100 do they get $97 or do I get charged $103. I'm guessing the latter.

    2) Will using a CC work like a purchase since it's going through Green Dot or will this work like a cash advance, which has higher interest rates and different term limits?
      The answer to question number one is that the person sending always pays the fee. You would send $103 and the person you are sending to would receive $100.  Question number two has not been officially answered to my knowledge. 

     I love that Apple has gotten into this  space. I am a big fan of Square Cash as I use Square Register/Point of Sale in my salon. It is super simple and easy to use. The only drawback is designating bank accounts/credit cards on which to either deposit or draw on.  You can only have one single debit card and one single credit card active in the app at one time. Owning multiple businesses I have five different debit cards both personal and professional. Apple answers this question by integrating wallet into the experience where I have all of my credit/debit cards stored so that I can easily pick a different one each time I send/receive cash. 
    I'm a big fan of Square cash and just signed up for them to send me their debit card. Similar concept Apple is jumping into but if one can send cash with a credit card for a 3% fee that will be a distinct advantage Apple will have as they enter this space.
  • Reply 29 of 33
    misamisa Posts: 827member
    That fee is to be expected and presumably a person to person transfer also won't be considered as a purchase by credit cards; it would be considered a cash advance which potentially (depending on your bank) comes with its own one off % fee added by the bank and would incur interest from day one (no interest free days) and will have its own special interest rate (often much higher than the interest rate for purchases). 

    Here's hoping people realize the likelihood of this.

    It needs to be pointed out, that yes you're right. Typically "withdrawing cash" from a credit card is a cash advance, and interest is charged the second it's done. The question is if these are considered purchases (a la Square) or Advances.

    Fun fact. If you use an American Debit card in Canada, it's considered a cash advance in the system's credit card processing, so it will be charged as a credit card (and more to the point, you can't actually withdraw US cash in Canada with a US debit card, even if you go to the issuing bank itself.) If you use the native Interac system, often both your bank and the other party's bank take a transaction fee. Oddly enough, you can use USD with Canada's banking system if you go setup pre-authorized debits, but that's something that primarily has to do with investment brokerages, not person-to-person transactions.

    Thus good luck getting Apple Pay Peer to be useful without a US debit card.
  • Reply 30 of 33
    bäNGkbäNGk Posts: 3member
    P2P transfers via Apple Pay could be enabled with no fees whatsoever via a free bäNGk account. This also provides another layer of security between your debit or credit card and bank account as well as enables funds to be loaded via Square Cash, PayPal and even bitcoin and then used via Apple Pay and/or Apple Wallet. RSVP for a no fee bäNGk account at bangk.us
  • Reply 31 of 33
    jdw said:
    Still so many unanswered questions.

    What is the fee to withdraw funds to your bank?

    What are the fees, if any, for international transfers which would include transfers to one's bank outside the US, most likely in a currency other than US dollars? 

    What is the exact URL for the webpage on Apple's website that describes in detail all of the fees? 


    To be competitve with services already available in the UK at least, fees to load/withdraw would have to be £0/free and international payments/transfers also £0/free at the interbank rate (or at the very least, the mastercard rate) similar to things like the Monzo card, the Revolut card, a Starling account etc. etc.
  • Reply 32 of 33
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,752member
    Notsofast said:

    larryjw said:
    Green Dot, eh?
    I had the same reaction. Payday loans next? If you read the Wikipedia article, they don’t have an awesome reputation (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Dot_Corporation). Seems an odd partnership for Apple. 
    According to the Wikipedia article, Green Dot has a decidedly negative reputation -- one or two stars out of 5. Having reviewed recent comments on Amazon, even the one star ratings don't indicate how bad they are. Recent comments refer to them as criminal, scam.

    I wouldn't expect Apple to use this company. Big mistake if they do, unless they were planning to buy out and then transform GreenDot, or is going to establish their own similar system, and just needed to name some entity now, adding a reliable mechanism before launch. 
    Again, wikipedia and someone posting on Amazon are hardly credible sources. Competitors, disgruntled employees, etc., can post anything they want.  Are there any reputable studies, sources, etc.?  It's hard to believe that Apple having its pick of partners would pick a company with a terrible reputation as a criminal scam to handle your money.  But again, if you have a reputable source that Green Dot is engaged in criminal activity, I'll be glad to share with Apple as they need to know.
    https://www.consumeraffairs.com/credit_cards/green_dot_prepaid.html
    https://www.creditkarma.com/reviews/credit-card/single/id/CCColumbusBankTrustCompany1598

    FWIW my daughter used Green Dot prepaids for a short time but didn't realize they were taking a monthly fee from her balance whether she used it or not. She no longer uses them. No doubt many others probably find them the best of what's available to them as they don't have access to traditional banking services, or don't want to for various reasons. 
    edited June 2017
  • Reply 33 of 33
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,752member
    Notsofast said:
    Green Dot, eh?
    I had the same reaction. Payday loans next? If you read the Wikipedia article, they don’t have an awesome reputation (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Dot_Corporation). Seems an odd partnership for Apple. 
    Kids are taught starting in junior high not to cite or trust Wikipedia because so much of it is incorrect as anyone can throw stuff up.  Are there any reputable sources that compare the reputation of the various services?  
    Bluebird American Express Prepaids seem to have the best rep according to Nerd Wallet, followed by Fifth/Third and Chase. Other consumer finance sites suggest Amex Serve as well, and Paypal Prepaid and even Western Union. I've not come across any that suggest Green Dot to be a great choice, but not a horrible choice either. 
    edited June 2017
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