Watch: 2017 12" MacBook with Intel Kaby Lake vs. 2015 version

AppleInsider

As part of last week's MacBook refresh, Apple released an upgraded version of the 12-inch MacBook with Retina display, incorporating Intel's latest Kaby Lake processors, faster SSDs and minor aesthetic improvements. AppleInsider pits the new version against its 2015 predecessor in this video.

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curtis hannah

Since the macbook pro now has the same price as the macbook, what's the point, I understand it has double the storage(which raises the question why can't they make a $300 less 128gb macbook), is there really that many people buying the macbook instead of the air/pro?

appex

And why Apple did not update the great MacBook Air to Kaby Lake as well, besides Thunderbolt 3 with USB 3.1 Type-C (reversible) Generation 2 (10 Gbps)?

spheric

appex said:

And why Apple did not update the great MacBook Air to Kaby Lake as well, besides Thunderbolt 3 with USB 3.1 Type-C (reversible) Generation 2 (10 Gbps)?

Because the only reason the MacBook Air still exists is because Apple are yet unable to sell the MacBook below the $1000 entry-level threshold. 

They are not going to redesign the board just before killing the line. 

williamlondon

curtis hannah said:

(which raises the question why can't they make a $300 less 128gb macbook)

It's called product pricing, one aspect of the much larger product and brand strategy discipline.

I took a class in product pricing once and what I can say is that I've barely scratched the surface of this subject, it's complex and the people who do it for a living (and do it well) know their stuff and are amazing.

As an example one model we studied (nothing to do with Apple and greatly oversimplified for illustration) showed that if you assemble features in your product offering that is a higher price than a different product offering you could price lower, even though fewer people will buy the higher priced offering than the lower priced offering, the company makes more profit overall with the fewer units at a higher price. All companies make decisions like these, they're not simple and most get them very wrong.

redgeminipa

curtis hannah said:

Since the macbook pro now has the same price as the macbook, what's the point, I understand it has double the storage(which raises the question why can't they make a $300 less 128gb macbook), is there really that many people buying the macbook instead of the air/pro?

When it was time for me to buy a new MacBook back in December, I originally bought an Air for $1,199. Coming from a 2010 15" Pro, I was very disappointed in the overall quality - from the display to the keyboard and trackpad - it just felt like a budget model. After a week, I just couldn't adjust to the subpar quality, especially the lousy display. I boxed it up and took it back to exchange it for a base 12" MacBook. Other than adjusting to the keyboard, which took a while, it was a nice improvement. Keyboard aside, the 12" is a very nice little notebook. I almost wish I would've held off for this model, but the '16 version works fine for my needs. 

As for a 13" Pro at the same price, I'd never buy one with 128GB, meaning it would put me back to $1,499, minimum. For ME, it wasn't worth the extra money. My needs don't demand a lot of CPU or GPU performance. The 12" MacBook is quite snappy compared to my '10 15" Pro, even with an SSHD hybrid drive. Again, I haven't done much of anything requiring GPU performance, but my former 15" Pro wasn't exactly a screamer, even with dual graphics. 

zoetmb

williamlondon said:

curtis hannah said:

(which raises the question why can't they make a $300 less 128gb macbook)

It's called product pricing, one aspect of the much larger product and brand strategy discipline.

I took a class in product pricing once and what I can say is that I've barely scratched the surface of this subject, it's complex and the people who do it for a living (and do it well) know their stuff and are amazing.

As an example one model we studied (nothing to do with Apple and greatly oversimplified for illustration) showed that if you assemble features in your product offering that is a higher price than a different product offering you could price lower, even though fewer people will buy the higher priced offering than the lower priced offering, the company makes more profit overall with the fewer units at a higher price. All companies make decisions like these, they're not simple and most get them very wrong.

Not necessarily.  Those are called price elasticity curves and they have to be analyzed on a case-by-case basis.   Companies do well when they can spread the cost of components over many different products, so common parts generally increase margins and profits.

One could argue that if a company has to put a product on sale (Apple rarely does), then their original pricing model was wrong.    

Apple used to have clearly distinctive pricing for each laptop model with prices at each point.   That's classical pricing - you don't want to lose a customer because there's no price point for them (although Apple's lowest price is generally far higher than the PC clone market, where you can get a laptop for as little as $300).   But now, the pricing has a few overlaps:  
You have the 13.3" MBA at $1000 and $1200
the 13" MBP at $1300 and $1500.
the 13" MBP with Touch Bar at $1800 and $2000.
the 15" MBP with Touch Bar at $2400 and $2800.  All good in terms of the range, although one could argue they need something at $2200.
But then you also have the 12" Mac Book at $1300 and $1600.  

Now the $1300 Mac Book does have twice the storage of the 13" MBP ($1300) and the $1600 Mac Book has twice the storage of the $1500 MBP but the MBP has a far better processor.  Is the Mac Book really needed anymore?   And while Apple would want to maintain a $999 machine, so they keep the lower level MBA, with the MBP at $1300, do they really need the $1200 MBA?    I think Apple keeps it because the only difference is the 256GB storage (vs. 128GB in the lower machine), so it' s no big deal to produce.  

And then in the iMac line you have the 21" at $1100, $1300 and $1500 and the 27" at $1800, $2000 and $2300.   That all makes logical sense although it's always seemed like the iMac is a much better deal than the laptops and it appears to me that all of the components are actually fitting into a space the same size as a laptop (except the keyboard, obviously.)  

They probably can't bring the 13" MBP down to $999, but Apple is ripping us all off on storage, so they could definitely bring down prices overall and they could probably bring down the lower-tier MBA from $999 to $899, which I personally think would substantially increase sales.   To go from 512GB to 1TB on the MBP is an extra $400 and an extra $1200 to get to 2TB.   Those are absurd prices.  Apple holds us hostage by not using standard plug-based memory modules that we can change/upgrade ourselves.   "Environmental" Apple wants us to throw our machines away if we need more memory or storage.   Totally hypocritical position, IMO.  

linkman

spheric said:

appex said:

And why Apple did not update the great MacBook Air to Kaby Lake as well, besides Thunderbolt 3 with USB 3.1 Type-C (reversible) Generation 2 (10 Gbps)?

Because the only reason the MacBook Air still exists is because Apple are yet unable to sell the MacBook below the $1000 entry-level threshold. 

They are not going to redesign the board just before killing the line. 

The MBA is $1 under that $1000 price point, and that's for the absolute bottom-end model.

mplsp

linkman said:

spheric said:

appex said:

And why Apple did not update the great MacBook Air to Kaby Lake as well, besides Thunderbolt 3 with USB 3.1 Type-C (reversible) Generation 2 (10 Gbps)?

Because the only reason the MacBook Air still exists is because Apple are yet unable to sell the MacBook below the $1000 entry-level threshold. 

They are not going to redesign the board just before killing the line. 

The MBA is $1 under that $1000 price point, and that's for the absolute bottom-end model.

Yes, but that one dollar is psychologically huge for consumers. 

tokyojimu

I'd have liked to see a comparison with the now-available Core i5 and i7 processors. 

ben20

It would make sense to compare 2017 to the 2016 model, not the 2015 which was really slow. Plus what about the i5/512 model, which most people will buy?

apple2c

Gee, it sure would be nice if the video used the normal video controls on the iPad and didn't have the overlay about Autoplay throughout the playing.

Plus, there was no way to stop the video after starting it!  I thought this was an Apple site!

Next time, have the narrator speak more slowly, too.  We gave up part way through as it sounded as if he needed to take a breath, but wasn't doing so!

----------------------------------- 

Also, just discovered that you tap Like on a post, it brings up the keyboard on the iPad.  Makes no sense, either!

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As to the topic at hand, the MacBook has a couple of advantages over the MacBook Pro:  

1.  No fan!  For many people, that's a HUGE plus!

2.  Lighter weight.  The MBP is 50% more.  Sure, that extra point doesn't sound like much, but it is a qualitatively different feeling.

3.  Heat!  Every MacBook Pro we've ever owned has run hot-- so hot that it's not a laptop!

4.  Silent operation vs. the noise of the MacBook Pro.  See #1 again!

5.  Cheaper by a couple of hundred dollars for the same storage space.

6.  Front edge is tapered and so is more comfortable on the palm.  The MBP's front, blunt, sharp edge is uncomfortable.  

For sure, in most other areas -- ports, screen size, color, CPU, etc. -- the MacBook Pro is better (although for many, if not most users, the speed difference will not matter).

edited August 2017

tmakedon

Have a kaby lake m3 12 inch MacBook, and picked it up at Bestbuy for 1045.00 plus tax. For that price I had to try it, I had a 14 no questions asked return period. Guess what ? Im in love with this machine. The machine is an absolute screamer handles everything I throw it. My wife has the touch bar 13 inch pro which I got a great deal on through BH photo and I can tell you they perform equally close. You might ask how or why and its quite simple. Mac OS X is a lean operating system and there is nothing that can truly max out the CPU or GPU other than video editing or games. This brings me to my next point, your fooling yourself if you think your going to edit some big video project on the 13 inch pro also. Thats the trick here if your truly into video, (Macs are not gaming machines and never will be so I won't even bother to discuss that) you will have to go for the 15 inch pro. So playing with both machines I don't see any difference from day to day use. Its a great little media device without a fan that plays full HD movies flawlessly, streaming is superb on it, screen is great, runs cool etc. The tech articles are knocking it based on specs that are black and white but the truth is no laptop in the last three years is truly hindered by the cpu. Paying 1045.00 was a no brainer considering people spend that much on an iPad Pro 12.9 that runs IOS that can't nearly do what this machine can handle. Plus its 2 lbs to boot. Bottom line is most laptops are simply over powered for most uses as software hasn't caught up to full potential of the CPU. Apple and intel know this the rest is all marketing. So for a daily portable laptop this is one of the best. The one port doesn't bother me either, because I did buy a dongle to charge the iPhone when at a coffee shop and use it once in awhile but thats about it. Most stores including apple has a return period, try and you'll see for yourself that chances are you won't exchange it.