Schiller refutes book's account that he demanded physical keyboard in early iPhone

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 74
    analogjackanalogjack Posts: 1,069member
    neilm said:
    Absolutely impossible to believe. The whole raison d'être of the iPhone was predicated on two things, 1. a proper OS and 2. no keyboard.




    Which doesn't mean iPhone development started that way, only that it finally emerged with a virtual keyboard.
    Sure, and as has been said, there could have been lots of prototypes, but this was a time when Jobs was CEO, and he would know that Apple had no chance competing on level terms with established players, software alone would not be enough. When the iPhone was released the consensus amongst all the people who would know, Nokia, Blackberry, Microsoft, and everyone else unanimously agreed that a phone with no keyboard was a joke, a toy, a bauble, dead in the water, a suggestion so patently absurd that no one hesitated to go on record predicting the idiocy inherent in such madness. Only a company with a nerdy blind fanbase could get away with it, and then only in small numbers. That in itself would scream to someone like Jobs that he's on to a winner. As CEO I'd guess that even if someone suggested that they needed a keyboard that Jobs would have made it plain from the beginning that that is not what is going to happen. 
    edited June 2017
  • Reply 62 of 74
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,070member
    avon b7 said:
    Why is evidence required?

    Truth is defined by objective fact. You may believe that something is true, but that’s irrelevant to actual truth unless you have evidence to support your belief.
    'Belief'. It is there, staring you in the face and in your own quoted definition.

    Can't you see why your claim for evidence, actual truth etc is completely nonsensical?

    If you have the feeling something is true you do not need any more than that. Evidence is not required just because you feel something is as you see it.

    Why don't you post the meaning of 'belief' to cement your point?

    You do not support a belief with evidence because it stops being a belief. Get it?
    edited June 2017 gatorguy
  • Reply 63 of 74
    It's worth reading the latest take from Gruber that points to a special podcast of The Verge with Brian Merchant. It does seem like Merchant has Fadell on audio tape and Fadell is now trying to disown his conversation, now that it has blown up in his face. 

    So, as I said to AvonB7, it's between Merchant and Fadell now. 


  • Reply 64 of 74
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,312member
    It's worth reading the latest take from Gruber that points to a special podcast of The Verge with Brian Merchant. It does seem like Merchant has Fadell on audio tape and Fadell is now trying to disown his conversation, now that it has blown up in his face. 

    So, as I said to AvonB7, it's between Merchant and Fadell now. 


    I am going to buy this book. Unlike the Walter Isaacson book this is a discussion on the software, how a variation of OS X got on a mobile, including multi touch, while Isaacson -- and the steve job' movies -- is all about hardware. Software is really what differentiates the iPhone ( the telephony part was probably about 2% of it). And once you agree on multi touch theres not much you can do with the hardware front, other that what they did. I am not saying the original iPhone was ugly but its design, a huge screen relative to what was then available and no physical keyboard, was mandated by the software choices. There were two competing options as well, an iPod and an iPhone design. Johny Ive had little to do, really with the constraints he faced. 

    And fadell wasnt the father of the iPhone, not the one produced eventually.


  • Reply 65 of 74
    nhtnht Posts: 4,494member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    Why is evidence required?

    Truth is defined by objective fact. You may believe that something is true, but that’s irrelevant to actual truth unless you have evidence to support your belief.
    'Belief'. It is there, staring you in the face and in your own quoted definition.

    Can't you see why your claim for evidence, actual truth etc is completely nonsensical?

    If you have the feeling something is true you do not need any more than that. Evidence is not required just because you feel something is as you see it.

    Why don't you post the meaning of 'belief' to cement your point?

    You do not support a belief with evidence because it stops being a belief. Get it?
    Why do people ask for stuff without trying it first?

    be·lief
    bəˈlēf/
    noun
    1. an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
    "his belief in the value of hard work"
    2. trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.
    "a belief in democratic politics"
    synonyms:

    So the statement that your strong confidence or acceptance of that there must have been dissent on the MBP design is based on absolutely nothing and thereby totally worthless is true.
    tallest skil
  • Reply 66 of 74
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    avon b7 said:
    'Belief'. It is there, staring you in the face and in your own quoted definition.
    Belief is irrelevant to truth.
    Can't you see why your claim for evidence, actual truth etc is completely nonsensical?
    No, because in matters of objective truth, belief is irrelevant. I don’t give a flying fuck what you believe; I care only about what is true.
    If you have the feeling something is true you do not need any more than that.
    Holy fucking shit, go live in a commune in the woods if you think that behavior is acceptable.
    Evidence is not required just because you feel something is as you see it.
    Again, who gives a fuck about your belief on matters of objectivity if you have no evidence to support it? Why should we care? Don’t spew lies.
    You do not support a belief with evidence because it stops being a belief.

    So why should anyone care?

  • Reply 67 of 74
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,070member
    nht said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    Why is evidence required?

    Truth is defined by objective fact. You may believe that something is true, but that’s irrelevant to actual truth unless you have evidence to support your belief.
    'Belief'. It is there, staring you in the face and in your own quoted definition.

    Can't you see why your claim for evidence, actual truth etc is completely nonsensical?

    If you have the feeling something is true you do not need any more than that. Evidence is not required just because you feel something is as you see it.

    Why don't you post the meaning of 'belief' to cement your point?

    You do not support a belief with evidence because it stops being a belief. Get it?
    Why do people ask for stuff without trying it first?

    be·lief
    bəˈlēf/
    noun
    1. an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
    "his belief in the value of hard work"
    2. trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.
    "a belief in democratic politics"
    synonyms:

    So the statement that your strong confidence or acceptance of that there must have been dissent on the MBP design is based on absolutely nothing and thereby totally worthless is true.
    You lost the plot. Again. This is about the need for evidence. 
  • Reply 68 of 74
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,070member
    avon b7 said:
    'Belief'. It is there, staring you in the face and in your own quoted definition.
    Belief is irrelevant to truth.
    Can't you see why your claim for evidence, actual truth etc is completely nonsensical?
    No, because in matters of objective truth, belief is irrelevant. I don’t give a flying fuck what you believe; I care only about what is true.
    If you have the feeling something is true you do not need any more than that.
    Holy fucking shit, go live in a commune in the woods if you think that behavior is acceptable.
    Evidence is not required just because you feel something is as you see it.
    Again, who gives a fuck about your belief on matters of objectivity if you have no evidence to support it? Why should we care? Don’t spew lies.
    You do not support a belief with evidence because it stops being a belief.

    So why should anyone care?

    So after flaying about blindly you agree that evidence isn't necessary after all?

    It was you that slapped the word belief on the table. For all your blustering, nothing has changed.

    Was it worth the effort to try and pick apart one little fragment of a post, not take it in the spirit that it was written?
  • Reply 69 of 74
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,925member
    avon b7 said:
    'Belief'. It is there, staring you in the face and in your own quoted definition.
    Belief is irrelevant to truth.
    Can't you see why your claim for evidence, actual truth etc is completely nonsensical?
    No, because in matters of objective truth, belief is irrelevant. I don’t give a flying fuck what you believe; I care only about what is true.
    If you have the feeling something is true you do not need any more than that.
    Holy fucking shit, go live in a commune in the woods if you think that behavior is acceptable.
    Evidence is not required just because you feel something is as you see it.
    Again, who gives a fuck about your belief on matters of objectivity if you have no evidence to support it? Why should we care? Don’t spew lies.
    You do not support a belief with evidence because it stops being a belief.

    So why should anyone care?

    And your beliefs certainly have some validity TS. ;)
    edited June 2017
  • Reply 70 of 74
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,925member
    neilm said:
    Absolutely impossible to believe. The whole raison d'être of the iPhone was predicated on two things, 1. a proper OS and 2. no keyboard.




    Which doesn't mean iPhone development started that way, only that it finally emerged with a virtual keyboard.
    Sure, and as has been said, there could have been lots of prototypes, but this was a time when Jobs was CEO, and he would know that Apple had no chance competing on level terms with established players, software alone would not be enough. 
    Yup, in the Samsung/Apple trials it was shown there were a whole lotta prototypes. Some of those ran the gauntlet from click-wheel control (revealed last year in a video supplied by a former Apple employee) to virtual keyboard input, trackball to finally touch. Some case designs were influenced by Nokia,  some were said to have a Samsung flavor, and or course the unique and iconic design Apple smartly settled on. Form follows function. 

    By the way, I absolutely believe it when the author says Tony Fadell told him there was discourse and disagreement about using a physical keyboard. Fadell has been consistent on that point. I don't recall it being disputed by anyone involved with the project after the 2012 interviews where he discussed it. Now all of a sudden it's not true? 

    edited June 2017
  • Reply 71 of 74
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    avon b7 said:
    …you agree that evidence isn’t necessary after all?
    Read before posting.
    It was you that slapped the word belief on the table.
    Nah, that’d be you, trying to pass off your beliefs as fact. They’re not.
    Was it worth the effort to try and pick apart one little fragment of a post, not take it in the spirit that it was written?
    Yes, since you were wrong and think that your emotions dictate what fact is.
    gatorguy said:
    And your beliefs certainly have some validity TS. ;)
    Surely you jest.
    edited June 2017
  • Reply 72 of 74
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,925member
    And your beliefs certainly have some validity TS. ;)
    Surely you jest.
    I believe I did. :)
    edited June 2017
  • Reply 73 of 74
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,070member
    avon b7 said:
    …you agree that evidence isn’t necessary after all?
    Read before posting.
    It was you that slapped the word belief on the table.
    Nah, that’d be you, trying to pass off your beliefs as fact. They’re not.
    Was it worth the effort to try and pick apart one little fragment of a post, not take it in the spirit that it was written?
    Yes, since you were wrong and think that your emotions dictate what fact is.
    gatorguy said:
    And your beliefs certainly have some validity TS. ;)
    Surely you jest.
    At least you have a sense of humour. Yes, that was actually funny even though it doesn't  actually change anything. Each to their own I suppose.
  • Reply 74 of 74
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    avon b7 said:
    Each to their own I suppose.
    And that's the problem with your worldview: "live and let live" is BULLSHIT. Objective truth exists, and I don't give a fuck what anyone believes about the world if it contradicts that. You can't will correctness into existence. People aren't correct because it makes them feel good to be. And that's as far as I'll say because anything else begs for an analogy with political ideology, but that's not the point of the thread.
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