The Surface line has been near-tractionless since introduction, if not compeletely tractionless relative to its competition. These frankentablets sell nowhere near iPad levels and barely crack the million units mark - that's actually *fewer* than Macs. That's right... MS' barnstormer answer to the iPad (or whatever their positioning was... try figuring *that* one out) can't even come close to beating a bad Mac quarter.
I suppose that the "near traction less" term applies to Apple, since Mac have been in the market for +30 years, and still about 10% of marketshare.
And it isn't like the Surface line offers an exclusively special experience relative to the competition. You get Windows shoehorned into a tablet, without the best of both worlds.
There are a few things the Surface line does over the competition, including Apple. They had an Intel i5 fanless, something I wasn't expecting in something this small. The Surface Pro has a kickstand, which is a far better than the single position of the iPad Smart Keyboard. You posted before that you still figuring how MS positioned the Surface Pro. I suppose you have the same issue with the iPad, since Apple talk before about the "toaster/fridge" device, and now we see that they are doing the same with the iPad Pro as a desktop replacement. With the iPad Pro you cannot have the "best of both worlds" when it's used as a desktop replacement. With the Surface Pro you have a better keyboard w/ trackpad, so you can use it as a full desktop replacement. Plus the Pen has an eraser, that's very helpful for people who, as me, use their Surface as a note taking device. Those are a few advantages that came to my mind, from many others.
That high satisfaction rating that is the only metric really going for it? I remember Windows Phone got one too, years ago. Sometimes it's an aberration.
For years I have read it these forums that customer satisfaction is the most important metric. Was something that Mac's carried over PC's, even though they have low sales compare to major vendors. So now that's not important. Interesting...
Surface has been a failure. It's another MS abortion that they'll hang on to like grim death until there's nothing left. Like old underwear. And that AIO line that they released last year? Whatever happened to it? Buzz for maybe a week or two and then forgotten. That's Microsoft for ya. Since forever.
How are they a failure? Based in customer satisfaction, they have been a success case. Every review has been very positive and even the Surface Pro 4 had a higher customer satisfaction compared to iPad. Sales? Do you really expect that in 4 years the had the same sales as iPad and Macs? Like I mentioned before, Mac have been around for +30 years with over 10% of marketshare. So in your dictionary, that's a failure, and I don't agree with it.
The Surface line has been near-tractionless since introduction, if not compeletely tractionless relative to its competition. These frankentablets sell nowhere near iPad levels and barely crack the million units mark - that's actually *fewer* than Macs. That's right... MS' barnstormer answer to the iPad (or whatever their positioning was... try figuring *that* one out) can't even come close to beating a bad Mac quarter.
I suppose that the "near traction less" term applies to Apple, since Mac have been in the market for +30 years, and still about 10% of marketshare.
And it isn't like the Surface line offers an exclusively special experience relative to the competition. You get Windows shoehorned into a tablet, without the best of both worlds.
There are a few things the Surface line does over the competition, including Apple. They had an Intel i5 fanless, something I wasn't expecting in something this small. The Surface Pro has a kickstand, which is a far better than the single position of the iPad Smart Keyboard. You posted before that you still figuring how MS positioned the Surface Pro. I suppose you have the same issue with the iPad, since Apple talk before about the "toaster/fridge" device, and now we see that they are doing the same with the iPad Pro as a desktop replacement. With the iPad Pro you cannot have the "best of both worlds" when it's used as a desktop replacement. With the Surface Pro you have a better keyboard w/ trackpad, so you can use it as a full desktop replacement. Plus the Pen has an eraser, that's very helpful for people who, as me, use their Surface as a note taking device. Those are a few advantages that came to my mind, from many others.
That high satisfaction rating that is the only metric really going for it? I remember Windows Phone got one too, years ago. Sometimes it's an aberration.
For years I have read it these forums that customer satisfaction is the most important metric. Was something that Mac's carried over PC's, even though they have low sales compare to major vendors. So now that's not important. Interesting...
Surface has been a failure. It's another MS abortion that they'll hang on to like grim death until there's nothing left. Like old underwear. And that AIO line that they released last year? Whatever happened to it? Buzz for maybe a week or two and then forgotten. That's Microsoft for ya. Since forever.
How are they a failure? Based in customer satisfaction, they have been a success case. Every review has been very positive and even the Surface Pro 4 had a higher customer satisfaction compared to iPad. Sales? Do you really expect that in 4 years the had the same sales as iPad and Macs? Like I mentioned before, Mac have been around for +30 years with over 10% of marketshare. So in your dictionary, that's a failure, and I don't agree with it.
Still peddling your Microshit apologism on an Apple fan site?
The Surface line has been near-tractionless since introduction, if not compeletely tractionless relative to its competition. These frankentablets sell nowhere near iPad levels and barely crack the million units mark - that's actually *fewer* than Macs. That's right... MS' barnstormer answer to the iPad (or whatever their positioning was... try figuring *that* one out) can't even come close to beating a bad Mac quarter.
I suppose that the "near traction less" term applies to Apple, since Mac have been in the market for +30 years, and still about 10% of marketshare.
And it isn't like the Surface line offers an exclusively special experience relative to the competition. You get Windows shoehorned into a tablet, without the best of both worlds.
There are a few things the Surface line does over the competition, including Apple. They had an Intel i5 fanless, something I wasn't expecting in something this small. The Surface Pro has a kickstand, which is a far better than the single position of the iPad Smart Keyboard. You posted before that you still figuring how MS positioned the Surface Pro. I suppose you have the same issue with the iPad, since Apple talk before about the "toaster/fridge" device, and now we see that they are doing the same with the iPad Pro as a desktop replacement. With the iPad Pro you cannot have the "best of both worlds" when it's used as a desktop replacement. With the Surface Pro you have a better keyboard w/ trackpad, so you can use it as a full desktop replacement. Plus the Pen has an eraser, that's very helpful for people who, as me, use their Surface as a note taking device. Those are a few advantages that came to my mind, from many others.
That high satisfaction rating that is the only metric really going for it? I remember Windows Phone got one too, years ago. Sometimes it's an aberration.
For years I have read it these forums that customer satisfaction is the most important metric. Was something that Mac's carried over PC's, even though they have low sales compare to major vendors. So now that's not important. Interesting...
Surface has been a failure. It's another MS abortion that they'll hang on to like grim death until there's nothing left. Like old underwear. And that AIO line that they released last year? Whatever happened to it? Buzz for maybe a week or two and then forgotten. That's Microsoft for ya. Since forever.
How are they a failure? Based in customer satisfaction, they have been a success case. Every review has been very positive and even the Surface Pro 4 had a higher customer satisfaction compared to iPad. Sales? Do you really expect that in 4 years the had the same sales as iPad and Macs? Like I mentioned before, Mac have been around for +30 years with over 10% of marketshare. So in your dictionary, that's a failure, and I don't agree with it.
Still peddling your Microshit apologism on an Apple fan site?
So this site is for Apple fanboys? I didn't know that. I read and post in this website as an Apple and MS customer. Fanboys are only focused in see what's good, but reject criticism even when it's needed. I'm not like that. I have devices from both companies, and have no issues pointing the good/bad things of bothh. But it looks that's a that's something hard for you to do, specially for Apple products, right?
The Surface line has been near-tractionless since introduction, if not compeletely tractionless relative to its competition. These frankentablets sell nowhere near iPad levels and barely crack the million units mark - that's actually *fewer* than Macs. That's right... MS' barnstormer answer to the iPad (or whatever their positioning was... try figuring *that* one out) can't even come close to beating a bad Mac quarter.
I suppose that the "near traction less" term applies to Apple, since Mac have been in the market for +30 years, and still about 10% of marketshare.
And it isn't like the Surface line offers an exclusively special experience relative to the competition. You get Windows shoehorned into a tablet, without the best of both worlds.
There are a few things the Surface line does over the competition, including Apple. They had an Intel i5 fanless, something I wasn't expecting in something this small. The Surface Pro has a kickstand, which is a far better than the single position of the iPad Smart Keyboard. You posted before that you still figuring how MS positioned the Surface Pro. I suppose you have the same issue with the iPad, since Apple talk before about the "toaster/fridge" device, and now we see that they are doing the same with the iPad Pro as a desktop replacement. With the iPad Pro you cannot have the "best of both worlds" when it's used as a desktop replacement. With the Surface Pro you have a better keyboard w/ trackpad, so you can use it as a full desktop replacement. Plus the Pen has an eraser, that's very helpful for people who, as me, use their Surface as a note taking device. Those are a few advantages that came to my mind, from many others.
That high satisfaction rating that is the only metric really going for it? I remember Windows Phone got one too, years ago. Sometimes it's an aberration.
For years I have read it these forums that customer satisfaction is the most important metric. Was something that Mac's carried over PC's, even though they have low sales compare to major vendors. So now that's not important. Interesting...
Surface has been a failure. It's another MS abortion that they'll hang on to like grim death until there's nothing left. Like old underwear. And that AIO line that they released last year? Whatever happened to it? Buzz for maybe a week or two and then forgotten. That's Microsoft for ya. Since forever.
How are they a failure? Based in customer satisfaction, they have been a success case. Every review has been very positive and even the Surface Pro 4 had a higher customer satisfaction compared to iPad. Sales? Do you really expect that in 4 years the had the same sales as iPad and Macs? Like I mentioned before, Mac have been around for +30 years with over 10% of marketshare. So in your dictionary, that's a failure, and I don't agree with it.
Still peddling your Microshit apologism on an Apple fan site?
So this site is for Apple fanboys? I didn't know that. I read and post in this website as an Apple and MS customer. Fanboys are only focused in see what's good, but reject criticism even when it's needed. I'm not like that. I have devices from both companies, and have no issues pointing the good/bad things of bothh. But it looks that's a that's something hard for you to do, specially for Apple products, right?
Don't use the term fanboys, it's an epithet, it's intended to convey a derogatory meaning, so stop it. Once you use it, you lose any argument you're trying to make.
The Surface line has been near-tractionless since introduction, if not compeletely tractionless relative to its competition. These frankentablets sell nowhere near iPad levels and barely crack the million units mark - that's actually *fewer* than Macs. That's right... MS' barnstormer answer to the iPad (or whatever their positioning was... try figuring *that* one out) can't even come close to beating a bad Mac quarter.
I suppose that the "near traction less" term applies to Apple, since Mac have been in the market for +30 years, and still about 10% of marketshare.
And it isn't like the Surface line offers an exclusively special experience relative to the competition. You get Windows shoehorned into a tablet, without the best of both worlds.
There are a few things the Surface line does over the competition, including Apple. They had an Intel i5 fanless, something I wasn't expecting in something this small. The Surface Pro has a kickstand, which is a far better than the single position of the iPad Smart Keyboard. You posted before that you still figuring how MS positioned the Surface Pro. I suppose you have the same issue with the iPad, since Apple talk before about the "toaster/fridge" device, and now we see that they are doing the same with the iPad Pro as a desktop replacement. With the iPad Pro you cannot have the "best of both worlds" when it's used as a desktop replacement. With the Surface Pro you have a better keyboard w/ trackpad, so you can use it as a full desktop replacement. Plus the Pen has an eraser, that's very helpful for people who, as me, use their Surface as a note taking device. Those are a few advantages that came to my mind, from many others.
That high satisfaction rating that is the only metric really going for it? I remember Windows Phone got one too, years ago. Sometimes it's an aberration.
For years I have read it these forums that customer satisfaction is the most important metric. Was something that Mac's carried over PC's, even though they have low sales compare to major vendors. So now that's not important. Interesting...
Surface has been a failure. It's another MS abortion that they'll hang on to like grim death until there's nothing left. Like old underwear. And that AIO line that they released last year? Whatever happened to it? Buzz for maybe a week or two and then forgotten. That's Microsoft for ya. Since forever.
How are they a failure? Based in customer satisfaction, they have been a success case. Every review has been very positive and even the Surface Pro 4 had a higher customer satisfaction compared to iPad. Sales? Do you really expect that in 4 years the had the same sales as iPad and Macs? Like I mentioned before, Mac have been around for +30 years with over 10% of marketshare. So in your dictionary, that's a failure, and I don't agree with it.
Still peddling your Microshit apologism on an Apple fan site?
So this site is for Apple fanboys? I didn't know that. I read and post in this website as an Apple and MS customer. Fanboys are only focused in see what's good, but reject criticism even when it's needed. I'm not like that. I have devices from both companies, and have no issues pointing the good/bad things of bothh. But it looks that's a that's something hard for you to do, specially for Apple products, right?
Don't use the term fanboys, it's an epithet, it's intended to convey a derogatory meaning, so stop it. Once you use it, you lose any argument you're trying to make.
I didn't call you or someone a fanboy, I just use the term in a rhetoric question. I didn't expect the term to be offensive, but since English is not my main language maybe I'm wrong. I could have use the term "Apple fan", but I see no issues of being an Apple fan. Many people, including me, love many their devices and product and that's the reason I read this website, among others. But I don't see why is wrong to point out when the competition do as good or better. I suppose Apple fans don't see an issue either, since they want Apple to be better. But Apple (or any vendor) fanboys get offended and start criticizing back without good arguments. At least that's what I have seen.
The Surface line has been near-tractionless since introduction, if not compeletely tractionless relative to its competition. These frankentablets sell nowhere near iPad levels and barely crack the million units mark - that's actually *fewer* than Macs. That's right... MS' barnstormer answer to the iPad (or whatever their positioning was... try figuring *that* one out) can't even come close to beating a bad Mac quarter.
I suppose that the "near traction less" term applies to Apple, since Mac have been in the market for +30 years, and still about 10% of marketshare.
And it isn't like the Surface line offers an exclusively special experience relative to the competition. You get Windows shoehorned into a tablet, without the best of both worlds.
There are a few things the Surface line does over the competition, including Apple. They had an Intel i5 fanless, something I wasn't expecting in something this small. The Surface Pro has a kickstand, which is a far better than the single position of the iPad Smart Keyboard. You posted before that you still figuring how MS positioned the Surface Pro. I suppose you have the same issue with the iPad, since Apple talk before about the "toaster/fridge" device, and now we see that they are doing the same with the iPad Pro as a desktop replacement. With the iPad Pro you cannot have the "best of both worlds" when it's used as a desktop replacement. With the Surface Pro you have a better keyboard w/ trackpad, so you can use it as a full desktop replacement. Plus the Pen has an eraser, that's very helpful for people who, as me, use their Surface as a note taking device. Those are a few advantages that came to my mind, from many others.
That high satisfaction rating that is the only metric really going for it? I remember Windows Phone got one too, years ago. Sometimes it's an aberration.
For years I have read it these forums that customer satisfaction is the most important metric. Was something that Mac's carried over PC's, even though they have low sales compare to major vendors. So now that's not important. Interesting...
Surface has been a failure. It's another MS abortion that they'll hang on to like grim death until there's nothing left. Like old underwear. And that AIO line that they released last year? Whatever happened to it? Buzz for maybe a week or two and then forgotten. That's Microsoft for ya. Since forever.
How are they a failure? Based in customer satisfaction, they have been a success case. Every review has been very positive and even the Surface Pro 4 had a higher customer satisfaction compared to iPad. Sales? Do you really expect that in 4 years the had the same sales as iPad and Macs? Like I mentioned before, Mac have been around for +30 years with over 10% of marketshare. So in your dictionary, that's a failure, and I don't agree with it.
1. The ICONIC Mac is a success story. For "PCs" there are times when Apple is listed as the #3 or #4 manufacturer. The Mac actually sells well into the millions. That is eminently impressive, given the way Apple prices these units, and the fact that it's a closed (proprietary) system.
2. Yes, there are some things the Surface can do that a Mac can't (and an iPad can't.) Read "can't" as won't, as in Apple *will not* have those devices do those things. If they did... they'd sell at Surface levels. The basics of the device's form dictates its function.
3. Customer Satisfaction metrics mean something when they're an all the time thing - when they span over *years*. Once in a while some manufacturer or other is right up there with Apple. Apple however is *always* up there, across ALL of its product lines, often since Day 1 of the product(s). So when they happen to slip a year, it's an aberration rather than the norm. You'll find them back up there next time because... it's in their culture to be there.
And yes, in TODAY's market, saturated at almost every angle, I'd expect that if a product doesn't achieve great things in four years, it's either back to the drawing board or into the trash bin. Consumers are spoiled for choice, and if someone intends to throw a grenade into vast tech entrenchments, it had better turn the segment on its ear.
I don't begrudge anyone their success. Some of Apple's competitors have either earned it or by fair means or foul churned out a quality product that dominates their particular platform. But some are just duds masquerading as diamonds, and it's time that MS realize they're at the wrong party.
With the iPad Pro you cannot have the "best of both worlds" when it's used as a desktop replacement.
Is the Surface better than a dedicated laptop for legacy desktop software use? No. Is the Surface better than a dedicated tablet for non-legacy software use? No. So the Surface is really targeting customers that are okay with compromising in both areas in order to have both contained within a single device. And be honest...most Surface users emphasize the legacy desktop software side FAR more than the tablet side. The tablet part of it is largely treated as an "extra", rather than an equal.
It isn't lost on me that I'm still being uncharitable with my comments. They're meant totally impersonally, and from the position of just a market perspective. At the same time, though, that is *all* that is meant. It's still a limited perspective.
The actual, meaningful truth is that if someone is well-served by a device, and is happy with it, that is all that matters. Your own experience is the only really substantive one. And no one can change that or take it away. So my comments are to be discarded when it comes to anything beyond simple market commentary that could come from anyone else, really.
With the iPad Pro you cannot have the "best of both worlds" when it's used as a desktop replacement.
Is the Surface better than a dedicated laptop for legacy desktop software use? No. Is the Surface better than a dedicated tablet for non-legacy software use? No. So the Surface is really targeting customers that are okay with compromising in both areas in order to have both contained within a single device. And be honest...most Surface users emphasize the legacy desktop software side FAR more than the tablet side. The tablet part of it is largely treated as an "extra", rather than an equal.
I like my Surface Book. I prefer MacOS to windows but for travel the Surface provides me Core i7 performance, Pro desktop apps and the ability to watch movies and stuff on the plane as a tablet...although the regular surface is better for that since it has better battery life.
Its one less thing to carry vs MBP + iPad if I wanted lightweight and could live with windows as my primary OS.
I carry both iPad and MBP these days because duet display is freaking awesome for travel.
The Surface line has been near-tractionless since introduction, if not compeletely tractionless relative to its competition. These frankentablets sell nowhere near iPad levels and barely crack the million units mark - that's actually *fewer* than Macs. That's right... MS' barnstormer answer to the iPad (or whatever their positioning was... try figuring *that* one out) can't even come close to beating a bad Mac quarter.
I suppose that the "near traction less" term applies to Apple, since Mac have been in the market for +30 years, and still about 10% of marketshare.
And it isn't like the Surface line offers an exclusively special experience relative to the competition. You get Windows shoehorned into a tablet, without the best of both worlds.
There are a few things the Surface line does over the competition, including Apple. They had an Intel i5 fanless, something I wasn't expecting in something this small. The Surface Pro has a kickstand, which is a far better than the single position of the iPad Smart Keyboard. You posted before that you still figuring how MS positioned the Surface Pro. I suppose you have the same issue with the iPad, since Apple talk before about the "toaster/fridge" device, and now we see that they are doing the same with the iPad Pro as a desktop replacement. With the iPad Pro you cannot have the "best of both worlds" when it's used as a desktop replacement. With the Surface Pro you have a better keyboard w/ trackpad, so you can use it as a full desktop replacement. Plus the Pen has an eraser, that's very helpful for people who, as me, use their Surface as a note taking device. Those are a few advantages that came to my mind, from many others.
That high satisfaction rating that is the only metric really going for it? I remember Windows Phone got one too, years ago. Sometimes it's an aberration.
For years I have read it these forums that customer satisfaction is the most important metric. Was something that Mac's carried over PC's, even though they have low sales compare to major vendors. So now that's not important. Interesting...
Surface has been a failure. It's another MS abortion that they'll hang on to like grim death until there's nothing left. Like old underwear. And that AIO line that they released last year? Whatever happened to it? Buzz for maybe a week or two and then forgotten. That's Microsoft for ya. Since forever.
How are they a failure? Based in customer satisfaction, they have been a success case. Every review has been very positive and even the Surface Pro 4 had a higher customer satisfaction compared to iPad. Sales? Do you really expect that in 4 years the had the same sales as iPad and Macs? Like I mentioned before, Mac have been around for +30 years with over 10% of marketshare. So in your dictionary, that's a failure, and I don't agree with it.
1. The ICONIC Mac is a success story. For "PCs" there are times when Apple is listed as the #3 or #4 manufacturer. The Mac actually sells well into the millions. That is eminently impressive, given the way Apple prices these units, and the fact that it's a closed (proprietary) system.
2. Yes, there are some things the Surface can do that a Mac can't (and an iPad can't.) Read "can't" as won't, as in Apple *will not* have those devices do those things. If they did... they'd sell at Surface levels. The basics of the device's form dictates its function.
3. Customer Satisfaction metrics mean something when they're an all the time thing - when they span over *years*. Once in a while some manufacturer or other is right up there with Apple. Apple however is *always* up there, across ALL of its product lines, often since Day 1 of the product(s). So when they happen to slip a year, it's an aberration rather than the norm. You'll find them back up there next time because... it's in their culture to be there.
And yes, in TODAY's market, saturated at almost every angle, I'd expect that if a product doesn't achieve great things in four years, it's either back to the drawing board or into the trash bin. Consumers are spoiled for choice, and if someone intends to throw a grenade into vast tech entrenchments, it had better turn the segment on its ear.
I don't begrudge anyone their success. Some of Apple's competitors have either earned it or by fair means or foul churned out a quality product that dominates their particular platform. But some are just duds masquerading as diamonds, and it's time that MS realize they're at the wrong party.
1. Again, +30 years and still close to 10%. And when you compare that to what Lenovo, Dell and HP sell per quarter/year, it's obvious that Macs, as you say, are "traction less". 2. Interesting how Apple won't do things,but, as you say, shoehorn iPads as desktop replacements. Before they criticize the Surface Pro for being a toaster/fridge, and devices should be separate, tablets and laptops. Why do they change their mind? Could it be because they saw what MS did with the Surface Pro . Which one do you think does a better job as a desktop replacement, the Surface Pro (toaster/fridge) or the iPad Pro. I suppose the answer is easy. And yes, iPads sell more than Surface Pro, but if we consider iPad sales in last two years, it won't be long before they sell as many as Surface Pro .
3. Customer satisfaction also show that MS made a better device than Apple, even though they are relatively new in the business. And second, that toaster/fridge can be better than iPads.
4. For some reason your forget that Apple had a very rough time for many years. Was their persistence what made them what they are. Now MS is the one doing innovation in the hardware market, even ahead of Apple. Why they should stop?
With the iPad Pro you cannot have the "best of both worlds" when it's used as a desktop replacement.
Is the Surface better than a dedicated laptop for legacy desktop software use? No. Is the Surface better than a dedicated tablet for non-legacy software use? No. So the Surface is really targeting customers that are okay with compromising in both areas in order to have both contained within a single device. And be honest...most Surface users emphasize the legacy desktop software side FAR more than the tablet side. The tablet part of it is largely treated as an "extra", rather than an equal.
Is the iPad better than a dedicated laptop for legacy desktop software? No. Then why Apple keep pushing it as a desktop replacement? Before they said that the Surface Pro was a toaster/fridge, and now they want the iPad Pro to be a toaster/fridge. And when you compare both devices, the Surface Pro is far ahead of the iPad Pro as a desktop replacement. And the Surface Pro could be the best 2-in-1 device in the market, something tablets or laptops can't do. So it looks like all devices have compromises. IMO, what defines the best option is your workflow, not necessarily the device.
With the iPad Pro you cannot have the "best of both worlds" when it's used as a desktop replacement.
Is the Surface better than a dedicated laptop for legacy desktop software use? No. Is the Surface better than a dedicated tablet for non-legacy software use? No. So the Surface is really targeting customers that are okay with compromising in both areas in order to have both contained within a single device. And be honest...most Surface users emphasize the legacy desktop software side FAR more than the tablet side. The tablet part of it is largely treated as an "extra", rather than an equal.
Is the iPad better than a dedicated laptop for legacy desktop software? No. Then why Apple keep pushing it as a desktop replacement? Before they said that the Surface Pro was a toaster/fridge, and now they want the iPad Pro to be a toaster/fridge. And when you compare both devices, the Surface Pro is far ahead of the iPad Pro as a desktop replacement. And the Surface Pro could be the best 2-in-1 device in the market, something tablets or laptops can't do. So it looks like all devices have compromises. IMO, what defines the best option is your workflow, not necessarily the device.
When has Apple pushed the iPad as a desktop replacement?
With the iPad Pro you cannot have the "best of both worlds" when it's used as a desktop replacement.
Is the Surface better than a dedicated laptop for legacy desktop software use? No. Is the Surface better than a dedicated tablet for non-legacy software use? No. So the Surface is really targeting customers that are okay with compromising in both areas in order to have both contained within a single device. And be honest...most Surface users emphasize the legacy desktop software side FAR more than the tablet side. The tablet part of it is largely treated as an "extra", rather than an equal.
Is the iPad better than a dedicated laptop for legacy desktop software? No. Then why Apple keep pushing it as a desktop replacement? Before they said that the Surface Pro was a toaster/fridge, and now they want the iPad Pro to be a toaster/fridge. And when you compare both devices, the Surface Pro is far ahead of the iPad Pro as a desktop replacement. And the Surface Pro could be the best 2-in-1 device in the market, something tablets or laptops can't do. So it looks like all devices have compromises. IMO, what defines the best option is your workflow, not necessarily the device.
When has Apple pushed the iPad as a desktop replacement?
Comments
There are a few things the Surface line does over the competition, including Apple. They had an Intel i5 fanless, something I wasn't expecting in something this small. The Surface Pro has a kickstand, which is a far better than the single position of the iPad Smart Keyboard. You posted before that you still figuring how MS positioned the Surface Pro. I suppose you have the same issue with the iPad, since Apple talk before about the "toaster/fridge" device, and now we see that they are doing the same with the iPad Pro as a desktop replacement. With the iPad Pro you cannot have the "best of both worlds" when it's used as a desktop replacement. With the Surface Pro you have a better keyboard w/ trackpad, so you can use it as a full desktop replacement. Plus the Pen has an eraser, that's very helpful for people who, as me, use their Surface as a note taking device. Those are a few advantages that came to my mind, from many others.
For years I have read it these forums that customer satisfaction is the most important metric. Was something that Mac's carried over PC's, even though they have low sales compare to major vendors. So now that's not important. Interesting...
How are they a failure? Based in customer satisfaction, they have been a success case. Every review has been very positive and even the Surface Pro 4 had a higher customer satisfaction compared to iPad. Sales? Do you really expect that in 4 years the had the same sales as iPad and Macs? Like I mentioned before, Mac have been around for +30 years with over 10% of marketshare. So in your dictionary, that's a failure, and I don't agree with it.
2. Yes, there are some things the Surface can do that a Mac can't (and an iPad can't.) Read "can't" as won't, as in Apple *will not* have those devices do those things. If they did... they'd sell at Surface levels. The basics of the device's form dictates its function.
3. Customer Satisfaction metrics mean something when they're an all the time thing - when they span over *years*. Once in a while some manufacturer or other is right up there with Apple. Apple however is *always* up there, across ALL of its product lines, often since Day 1 of the product(s). So when they happen to slip a year, it's an aberration rather than the norm. You'll find them back up there next time because... it's in their culture to be there.
And yes, in TODAY's market, saturated at almost every angle, I'd expect that if a product doesn't achieve great things in four years, it's either back to the drawing board or into the trash bin. Consumers are spoiled for choice, and if someone intends to throw a grenade into vast tech entrenchments, it had better turn the segment on its ear.
I don't begrudge anyone their success. Some of Apple's competitors have either earned it or by fair means or foul churned out a quality product that dominates their particular platform. But some are just duds masquerading as diamonds, and it's time that MS realize they're at the wrong party.
The actual, meaningful truth is that if someone is well-served by a device, and is happy with it, that is all that matters. Your own experience is the only really substantive one. And no one can change that or take it away. So my comments are to be discarded when it comes to anything beyond simple market commentary that could come from anyone else, really.
Cheers.
Its one less thing to carry vs MBP + iPad if I wanted lightweight and could live with windows as my primary OS.
I carry both iPad and MBP these days because duet display is freaking awesome for travel.
2. Interesting how Apple won't do things,but, as you say, shoehorn iPads as desktop replacements. Before they criticize the Surface Pro for being a toaster/fridge, and devices should be separate, tablets and laptops. Why do they change their mind? Could it be because they saw what MS did with the Surface Pro . Which one do you think does a better job as a desktop replacement, the Surface Pro (toaster/fridge) or the iPad Pro. I suppose the answer is easy. And yes, iPads sell more than Surface Pro, but if we consider iPad sales in last two years, it won't be long before they sell as many as Surface Pro .
3. Customer satisfaction also show that MS made a better device than Apple, even though they are relatively new in the business. And second, that toaster/fridge can be better than iPads.
4. For some reason your forget that Apple had a very rough time for many years. Was their persistence what made them what they are. Now MS is the one doing innovation in the hardware market, even ahead of Apple. Why they should stop?
https://www.theverge.com/2016/8/1/12346576/apple-ipad-pro-ad-tablet-full-computer-keyboard-stylus
http://osxdaily.com/2017/02/18/new-ipad-pro-commercials-pitch-device-as-computer-replacement/