Intel opens fire in solo ITC filing in support of Apple and calls Qualcomm 'abusive,' anti...

Jump to First Reply
Posted:
in iPhone edited July 2017
Supplementing Intel's presence in a trade group in a previous filing, the company has filed its own declaration with the U.S. International Trade Commission in support of Apple in its fight against Qualcomm's wireless technology licensing practices for the iPhone 7, and future devices.




Filed on Thursday, Intel's stand-alone remarks on the Apple versus Qualcomm wireless chip debacle paint Apple's foe as having a monopoly "through a host of anticompetitive practices -- not through the merits of its products or the strength of its innovation." Intel also notes that the "no-license-no-chips" policy gives device manufacturers no recourse, as Qualcomm "answers any opposition with threats to disrupt the OEM's supply of Qualcomm modems."

Intel claims that Qualcomm's complaint to the ITC attempts to exclude Intel modems while giving free passage to other allegedly infringing products containing a Qualcomm modem. Qualcomm's complaint names some GPU technology as potentially infringing -- technology found in the iPhone 7 regardless of which company's modem chipset is in use.

Furthermore, Intel claims that Qualcomm is in breach of its obligations to license standards-essential patents to competitors, violating commitments to organizations who control the patent pools. As part of Qualcomm's licensing deals, Intel claims that it "forecloses rivals like Intel from competing for Apple's vital business" with competitive wireless chipsets.

"Apple's decision to resist Qualcomm's anticompetitive behavior is the leading edge of a growing resistance to Qualcomm and its interlocking web of abusive practices," writes Intel. "Not coincidentally, Qualcomm has targeted Apple here in retribution for daring to contract with Qualcomm's only remaining competitor and for bringing a lawsuit to challenge Qualcomm's anticompetitive conduct."

In January, Apple leveled a $1 billion lawsuit against Qualcomm, charging it with abusing its market dominance to obtain unfair royalties, as well as forcing chip buyers to enter into patent licenses. Qualcomm began a countersuit in April arguing that Apple broke contract and wants to pay less than fair market value for licenses.

Qualcomm leveled a complaint with the ITC earlier in July, and looks to obtain a "limited exclusion order" against newly built iPhone devices. In addition, the firm also seeks to halt sales of devices already within U.S. borders through a cease and desist order.

"This is a pretty straightforward case: we've got six patents that we are confident they are infringing," said Don Rosenberg, general counsel at Qualcomm. "We are obviously very concerned about the fact that Apple has unilaterally decided it doesn't have to pay for property it takes and uses."

Editor's note: An earlier version of this article incorrectly identified the U.S. ITC as the FTC.

«1

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 23
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Qualcomm is neck deep in crap, best thing they can do is settle quick with everyone and move on. Everything else leads to destruction.
    tmaygregg thurmanmike1ronnlkruppdoozydozenjbdragonpalominewatto_cobrajony0
     10Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 2 of 23
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 4,060member
    Qualcomm is doomed. 
    jbdragonpalominewatto_cobra
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 3 of 23
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 2,943member
    Qualcomm has right to defend it's IP as well ask for fair/reasonable compensation. Either you buy from someone or develop your own. It appears, Qualcomm is in jam when too many strong fighting against.
    edited July 2017
    brucemc
     0Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 4 of 23
    SpamSandwichspamsandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Another 'boom'.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 5 of 23
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    wood1208 said:
    Qualcomm has right to defend it's IP as well ask for fair/reasonable compensation. Either you buy from someone or develop your own. It appears, Qualcomm is in jam when too many strong fighting against.
    Nobody agrees double dipping, fees based on whole device, or  extorsion level fees for Ip used in standards is fair, no country courts or judge, 

    before intel emerged as an option, apple had to take their abuse because Qualcomm was essentially a monopoly, but that's no longer the case. With many of their patents running out it will only get worse for them too.
    doozydozenpscooter63watto_cobratycho_macuser
     3Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 6 of 23
    cpnsidering the claims being publicly made against Qualcomm, the number of Countries opening anti-trust investigations against Qualcomm, the number of fines levied against Qualcomm for anti-trust violations it surprises no end that the US DOJ hasn't opened an investigation into Qualcomm practices as well. 
    doozydozenpalominewatto_cobra
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 7 of 23
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    foggyhill said:
    Qualcomm is neck deep in crap, best thing they can do is settle quick with everyone and move on. Everything else leads to destruction.

    They can not, plus they are listening to their lawyers which are basically tell them, make the other side prove their ass, if you back down now, you admit you were wrong and they lose all future power to do the exact same things. QCOM profits were down 40% since this started, if they settle with Apple it opens the door for others to do the exact same thing. They are stuck between a rock and hard place. They are just hoping they can keep the status quo and continue to get everyone in the value chain to pay some part of the licensing fees. Without this their profits are gone and investor will exit stage right. Investors only like QCOM due to the nice margins and the strangle hold they have over the market when that is done so is the reason people invest in them.
    watto_cobragatorguy
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 8 of 23
    teknishnteknishn Posts: 38member
    cpnsidering the claims being publicly made against Qualcomm, the number of Countries opening anti-trust investigations against Qualcomm, the number of fines levied against Qualcomm for anti-trust violations it surprises no end that the US DOJ hasn't opened an investigation into Qualcomm practices as well. 
    The US FTC has filed a suit... but I agree, this could get really really ugly for Qualcomm.  And it should.  The way they are behaving is incredibly unfair and illegal.
    doozydozenwatto_cobraInspiredCode
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 9 of 23
    mike1mike1 Posts: 3,472member
    cpnsidering the claims being publicly made against Qualcomm, the number of Countries opening anti-trust investigations against Qualcomm, the number of fines levied against Qualcomm for anti-trust violations it surprises no end that the US DOJ hasn't opened an investigation into Qualcomm practices as well. 
    I believe there are ongoing actions brought by the US Govt. Won't swear it's the DOJ, though.
    watto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 10 of 23
    teknishnteknishn Posts: 38member

    wood1208 said:
    Qualcomm has right to defend it's IP as well ask for fair/reasonable compensation. Either you buy from someone or develop your own. It appears, Qualcomm is in jam when too many strong fighting against.
    You clearly don't know all the details of what Qualcomm has been up to.  They are going to get nailed to a wall.  Not just by these companies they have screwed over, but many governments as well.  I'm sure they are still walking funny from having to pay 815 million to Blackberry.
    anton zuykovwatto_cobrasumjuantycho_macuserjony0
     5Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 11 of 23
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    When the government starts looking crosseyed at you, you know you’re in trouble. Apple found that out when the eBook debacle broke loose. All of Apple’s money and cadre of lawyers couldn’t keep the government from getting its pound of flesh.
    watto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 12 of 23
    thrangthrang Posts: 1,051member

    I've read that the consumption of toilet paper has increased 68% in the corporate stalls at Qualcomm HQ  over the past month...

    watto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 13 of 23
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    maestro64 said:
    foggyhill said:
    Qualcomm is neck deep in crap, best thing they can do is settle quick with everyone and move on. Everything else leads to destruction.

    They can not, plus they are listening to their lawyers which are basically tell them, make the other side prove their ass, if you back down now, you admit you were wrong and they lose all future power to do the exact same things. QCOM profits were down 40% since this started, if they settle with Apple it opens the door for others to do the exact same thing. They are stuck between a rock and hard place. They are just hoping they can keep the status quo and continue to get everyone in the value chain to pay some part of the licensing fees. Without this their profits are gone and investor will exit stage right. Investors only like QCOM due to the nice margins and the strangle hold they have over the market when that is done so is the reason people invest in them.
    If this drags on for 3-5 years, which is highly possible, their profits will go down a lot more... 3-5 years is enough time for Apple to actually get into the game of producing their own comm chip through buying IP or licensing it, and Samsung's already doing so outside the US (and QCOM patents will soon run out there too).

    They have too, because getting the "whole device pricing" kept IP at 10 times the value it should have been worth, but this basically ripping off your clients and making them possibly unprofitable! Clients don't take that lying down usually.

    They are simply running out of options; even if they're "right", they won't be in every jurisdiction from what we've seen up to now and it would turn into a Pyrrhic victory everywhere else with years of declining profits, big clients mad as hell and willing to kick their ass.

    Once the comm monopoly is cracked, even their SOC business would be in jeopardy.l
    edited July 2017
    tmaywatto_cobra
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 14 of 23
    anton zuykovanton zuykov Posts: 1,056member
    thrang said:

    I've read that the consumption of toilet paper has increased 68% in the corporate stalls at Qualcomm HQ  over the past month...

    So, you mean, they are not shitting bricks?
    pscooter63watto_cobra
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 15 of 23
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,156member
    I remembered years ago looking for one of those fancy Murphy-bed units that integrates a sofa, table, storage, etc... it was a beautiful piece of furniture and smartly engineered.  They only sold it at this one fancy-pants furniture store in San Francisco.

    They were asking about $15,000 for that unit and it didn't even include a mattress!  I asked the sales lady why the unit costed so much relative to other similar systems that were only a tenth the price.  She then went on to explain how in New York (I'm in San Francisco) that the price of apartments are so expensive per square-foot that a regular bed would take up x-square-feet which then roughly is comparable to the price of the unit.  

    They were basing the price of the bed based on the price per square foot that a normal bed would take up in a New York apartment!  I proceeded to ask her that it made no sense to me to price a product that way and if that were indeed the case, I asked her if I calculate the price per square foot in the tiny cottage in a quiet neighborhood in San Francisco that I was planning on purchasing the bed for, would she then grant me a discount?

    She didn't have an answer.  My incident reminded me of what Tim Cook said about Qualcomm's business practices of paying for a sofa based on the price of the house it's going into.  

    After politely telling the lady that her pricing model was all wrong, I proceeded to walk out the door and promised not to go back in ever again. They shot themselves in the foot as Qualcomm is doing right now too.
    pscooter63watto_cobratycho_macuseranton zuykov
     3Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 16 of 23
    There's something fitting about Qualcomm being based in Texas...I will leave that up to creative minded folks to figure out. But Qualcomm doesn't add value to anything but loves to pretend they are 'innovating' and important'. And they will sue if you you say differently.
    watto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 17 of 23
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,313member
    wood1208 said:
    Qualcomm has right to defend it's IP as well ask for fair/reasonable compensation. Either you buy from someone or develop your own. It appears, Qualcomm is in jam when too many strong fighting against.
    They gave our their IP under FRAND terms.  That way there is a single standard.  But that gives them monopoly power also.  They are clearly abusing that fact.  (Fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory-FRAND). That's part of the deal making it a standard.  Everyone is forced to use it.   Imagine how cell service would work with 5 different standards for example.   It would be a mess.  They're are double charging.  They are not charging for their IP on the chip, but the overall value of the phone, that's the whole phone, most of which they had nothing to do with.  Apple is really paying a lot of money as iPhone's are not cheap.  A lot more than most companies.  

    edited July 2017
    watto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 18 of 23
    larryjwlarryjw Posts: 1,038member
    Intel's filing was an informative and interesting read. Very well written and presented. 

    Nice job of "Made in America" support contrasting with Qualcomm whose chips are built outside the US. Likely to play well at the FTC, but not likely to be an argument presented to the EU or elsewhere.

    This illustrates how a good argument can be presented by a single entity without the need to compromise language to fit multiple parties. Very tight. 

    We should all write so well. 


    watto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 19 of 23
    jbdragon said:
    wood1208 said:
    Qualcomm has right to defend it's IP as well ask for fair/reasonable compensation. Either you buy from someone or develop your own. It appears, Qualcomm is in jam when too many strong fighting against.
    They gave our their IP under FRAND terms.  That way there is a single standard.  But that gives them monopoly power also.  They are clearly abusing that fact.  (Fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory-FRAND). That's part of the deal making it a standard.  Everyone is forced to use it.   Imagine how cell service would work with 5 different standards for example.   It would be a mess.  They're are double charging.  They are not charging for their IP on the chip, but the overall value of the phone, that's the whole phone, most of which they had nothing to do with.  Apple is really paying a lot of money as iPhone's are not cheap.  A lot more than most companies.  

    Yeah, Qualcomm is clearly in the wrong here.  Reminds me of drug companies increasing pricing by 6000% just because they can.  FRAND is supposed to prevent monopolies.  They are charging more for using other companies chips, charging for components their patents have nothing to do with, and double charging both chipset companies and OEM.  Doesn't sound like FRAND to me.  Maybe once this is settled we'll finally see LTE in $3000 MacBook Pros without Qualcomm taking $70+ in licensing fees without using any Qualcomm chips?
    edited July 2017
    watto_cobratycho_macuser
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 20 of 23
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,591member
    jbdragon said:
    wood1208 said:
    Qualcomm has right to defend it's IP as well ask for fair/reasonable compensation. Either you buy from someone or develop your own. It appears, Qualcomm is in jam when too many strong fighting against.
    They gave our their IP under FRAND terms.  That way there is a single standard.  But that gives them monopoly power also.  They are clearly abusing that fact.  (Fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory-FRAND). That's part of the deal making it a standard.  Everyone is forced to use it.   Imagine how cell service would work with 5 different standards for example.   It would be a mess.  They're are double charging.  They are not charging for their IP on the chip, but the overall value of the phone, that's the whole phone, most of which they had nothing to do with.  Apple is really paying a lot of money as iPhone's are not cheap.  A lot more than most companies.  

    Why is it based on the whole cost of the phone when Apple have parrallel products that all the same value minus cellular radios?
    Look at SE to iPodTouch, iPads with or without cellular there is a fairly standard price gap between the two. Surely Apple can argue this is the market decided value add for this function.

    I guess this is why we haven't senn Macbooks get a cellular option. Apple could really only charge the same feature price and license fee would be double or tripple that.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
Sign In or Register to comment.