Apple reveals 4K and HDR plans in iTunes, hinting revamped Apple TV may arrive soon

124

Comments

  • Reply 61 of 94
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,877member

    wigby said:
    lkrupp said:
    Can we settle an ongoing argument about 4K streaming? How much bandwidth is recommended for reliable 4K streaming? I have seen figures of around 20mbps. Now what is the average bandwidth available in the U.S. right now? I myself have a 12mbps DSL line so I am assuming 4K streaming would be useless to me, especially if other devices were consuming bandwidth online at the same time. And while we're at it my DSL line is 1mbps upstream. Using an online bandwidth calculator I figured it would take 120 hours to upload 50GB of my Photos library. This makes cloud computing a non-starter for me and I assume millions of others.
    Apple TV isn't really streaming. It's progressive download so if you give it 5 minutes to buffer, you will have an uninterrupted viewing experience even at 12mbps. It's not realtime streaming like we all want but you also don't pay for 20mbps so why would you expect as much?
    Depends on the app. 
  • Reply 62 of 94
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,877member

    wizard69 said:
    entropys said:
    Sweet. In addition to 4K it should have HDR, Dolby vision and most importantly of all, a drop in price.

    $99 headline price would goose sales considerably and I expect still have very good margins.
    Depends upon the feature set.   For me the ideal Apple TV would have a number of features to better support its intended use.   For one it needs a port to a disk array, for the obvious reason of having local storage thus limiting bandwidth usage and hopefully the associated costs.   Lets face it something you rent and some things you buy, purchases should get stored locally automatically for those that invest in external storage.     Second it would be really nice to see keyboard support via USB, that would greatly expand the utility of Apple TV and frankly Siri.   Third I would like to see a more generic and robust 12 VDC input to power the unit.    The reason for 12 VDC input is to allow easy use when mobil.   (test I'm thinking retirement in a few years).   5VDC via USB-C might not be a bad idea as 12 VDC to USB adapters are readily available.   Actually I'd like to see a Mini configured the same way with 12 VDC input.   
    Yeah keep hoping. Normals don’t care about any of that stuff, which is why they will never happen. USB keyboard support in a device designed to sit under a TV 10’ away? No, it’s wireless. 
    stompycalichia
  • Reply 63 of 94
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,727member
    Tonibar said:
    This sounds great but with more Data comes restrictions from companies like COMCAST which puts a DATA LIMIT on subscribers. They implemented this policy in 2016 and never informed their customers until, like me, went over the limit, which was caused I believe by upgrading my Netflix account. The limit is 1024 GB and they say 99% of their customers never reach which I find hard to believe. So until Comcast is forced to eliminate this policy then a lot of people will never benefit from a new Apple TV.

    You and me both on the data cap blow out.  We moved over from FiOS to Comcast when Verizon left Florida and the new company Frontier was in such disarray during the change over .  This may now be resolved I haven't checked but will, not even sure if they have data caps either.   I blew  through the Comcast newly implemented data cap by week two.  Thankfully they gave two months grace.   I was beta testing High Sierra and let in convert my 2 TB iCloud Photos Library which has a lot of HD videos (yes all backed up locally several times over)  to test then went back to Sierra and it apparently down converted. I have the ultra fast connection speed and this was mostly all done over night and I didn't even know I had a data cap!  I can't see the RAW images doing this but I am guessing it was converting all my 1080p to H265 then converted them all back again for me, I can't see how else I blew through that much data transfer.  H265 will definitely help for all HD once converted but for anyone with over a TB of iCloud video already they can probably expect an overage charge. 
    edited July 2017
  • Reply 64 of 94
    Here comes the "all-day" 4K movie downloads. Woohoo!
    Sounds like you need a much faster line speed....Sonic provides almost a Gigabit speed (optical) for around $40/month!
  • Reply 65 of 94
    eideardeideard Posts: 428member
    lkrupp said:
    Hopefully the revamp extends to using a new design for the awful remote control
    Nonsense. I find the Siri remote easy to use and have n ever had any issues with it.
    I guess you enjoy commercials.  Siri remote is a PITA, incapable of precise jumps anyone who spent time with Logitech controlling cable or sat feeds is accustomed to.  Time shifting easily and exactly is automatic for the overwhelming majority of TV viewers.

    The edge-bound skip forward and backward is sloppy.  Siri more often than not hasn't been usefully adopted by providers used by cable cutters.  Which requires Apple, then, to implement means to override the sloppiness of VUE, for example...the best of the lot IMHO.

    So far, AppleTV does the best job of implementing the early days-level of competent interface design for cable-cutters. They're capable of better.  The opportunity is at hand - since Logitech/Harmony seems bound to wringing their hands and laying all the blame for less-than-minimal control of TV on the providers.

    Having the best designer/coders on board means nothing if they don't get to build an interface capable of giving cable cutters the control we're used to. The rate of changeover is now measured in 10's of millions per quarter.
  • Reply 66 of 94
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    yoyo2222 said:
    General>'Sleep after' settings are "Never, 15, 30 min, 1, 5, or 10 hours"
    Thanks; so they still haven't changed it. For the life of me, I don't get why they won't add scheduling.
    Because it’s a fringe use case and not useful to most people, who simply set it to sleep after inactivity. 
    And catering to fringe use cases is how operating systems become bloated messes. See Windows 10
    watto_cobracaliStrangeDays
  • Reply 67 of 94
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    wigby said:
    lkrupp said:
    Can we settle an ongoing argument about 4K streaming? How much bandwidth is recommended for reliable 4K streaming? I have seen figures of around 20mbps. Now what is the average bandwidth available in the U.S. right now? I myself have a 12mbps DSL line so I am assuming 4K streaming would be useless to me, especially if other devices were consuming bandwidth online at the same time. And while we're at it my DSL line is 1mbps upstream. Using an online bandwidth calculator I figured it would take 120 hours to upload 50GB of my Photos library. This makes cloud computing a non-starter for me and I assume millions of others.
    Apple TV isn't really streaming. It's progressive download so if you give it 5 minutes to buffer, you will have an uninterrupted viewing experience even at 12mbps. It's not realtime streaming like we all want but you also don't pay for 20mbps so why would you expect as much?
    That's simply not true anymore. When I click Play the movie starts playing immediately, no buffering at all. things have changed recently.
  • Reply 68 of 94
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    clexman said:
    Hopefully the revamp extends to using a new design for the awful remote control
    I'm with you. The remote is a great idea, but I can't pick it up without bring up a menu.

    I now have to use 2 remotes instead of just 1 universal one because the DirectTV Now app doesn't work properly without the Apple Remote.

    I hate that I have to look at the remote to use it. If I feel for the buttons in the dark, a menu comes up.
    I agree. I had to put a rubber band around one end which I feel immediately. They should fix the shape. 
    Well maybe Apple should make a dozen or more remotes with different designs so everybody is satisfied and will quit complaining.
    watto_cobracali
  • Reply 69 of 94
    kamiltonkamilton Posts: 282member
    clexman said:
    Hopefully the revamp extends to using a new design for the awful remote control
    I'm with you. The remote is a great idea, but I can't pick it up without bring up a menu.

    I now have to use 2 remotes instead of just 1 universal one because the DirectTV Now app doesn't work properly without the Apple Remote.

    I hate that I have to look at the remote to use it. If I feel for the buttons in the dark, a menu comes up.
    I'd like the remote to be shaped so you know which end is the front.  The unintended touch input issue is maddening.  Like...  How did this make it through the design process?  Simple fix would be pressure sensor along edges, so touch area only becomes active with a light squeeze.
  • Reply 70 of 94
    calicali Posts: 3,494member
    kamilton said:
    clexman said:
    Hopefully the revamp extends to using a new design for the awful remote control
    I'm with you. The remote is a great idea, but I can't pick it up without bring up a menu.

    I now have to use 2 remotes instead of just 1 universal one because the DirectTV Now app doesn't work properly without the Apple Remote.

    I hate that I have to look at the remote to use it. If I feel for the buttons in the dark, a menu comes up.
    I'd like the remote to be shaped so you know which end is the front.  The unintended touch input issue is maddening.  Like...  How did this make it through the design process?  Simple fix would be pressure sensor along edges, so touch area only becomes active with a light squeeze.
    Get a case. That eliminates the problem for people. You can get one on eBay for $2.

    That last request, GOD NO. An extra input to make the surface usable?

  • Reply 70 of 94
    loquiturloquitur Posts: 137member
    Soli said:
    What's the equation to get that 5 minute buffer for a 20Mbps content with a 12Mbps bandwidth? 
    The waiting time for starting a progressive download is governed by the formula

          BufferTime = ((FileDataRate / ConnectionSpeed) - 1) x Duration

    taken from Ben Waggoner's discussion at:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=lDzDRieofpAC&pg=PA158&lpg=PA158&dq=buffertime+formula+progressivedownload&source=web&ots=7A5iLUpoju&sig=YowK15KR4xIHIgUH9D3HB8kc7x0

    so, for your example, waiting 300 seconds = ((20Mbps / 12Mbps) -1) x Duration
    you could only play a 7 1/2 minute video clip before rebuffering.
    edited July 2017 tallest skil
  • Reply 72 of 94
    calicali Posts: 3,494member
    lkrupp said:
    Hopefully the revamp extends to using a new design for the awful remote control
    Nonsense. I find the Siri remote easy to use and have n ever had any issues with it.
    I think Siri remote doesn't have an awful design but at the same time I would be lying if I say never had any issues. First problem is identifying orientation of the remote, regularly I find myself holding it upside down. Second issue is sometimes I press the wrong button, to differentiate the buttons are designed hollow and bump, but it is still difficult to identify which button which. Third is scrubbing, with the old remote I could press down button and see equally devided portions of video and easily navigate it, with siri remote even though I can easily scrub most of the time I accidentally loose exact location of the video when I press the touch surface to confirm the location of the video. Playing games with the remote is very difficult, gamepad is not included in the box and Remote app is not make it easier. I believe an overhaul would be good for the next Apple TV remote.
    The problem is Apple used outdated technology for this AppleTV.

    The remote could have had 3D Touch, Taptic Engine and the M chip for gaming/pointing.
    edited July 2017
  • Reply 73 of 94
    calicali Posts: 3,494member
    danvm said:
    cali said:
    I've slowed down on buying movies because of this. How much will Apple/studios charge to upgrade our content? Upgrading our library for free would be awesome and simple.

    A new Apple TV with 4K gaming will be amazing and convince a few gamers to buy.
    I don't think that 4K will do something for the ATV as a gaming device.  Sony, MS and Nintendo already control the market, and looks like it will be this way for many years.  
    Absolutely right!!

    Nokia, Blackberry and Motorola already controlled the phone market and Apple would never get in!!

    Casio, Rolex and Tag Huer already control the time piece market no way Apple will sell a single Watch!

    take into account the duds from Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony lately and Apple has 0% chancee!!!! 
    tallest skil
  • Reply 74 of 94
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,409member
    cali said:
    danvm said:
    cali said:
    I've slowed down on buying movies because of this. How much will Apple/studios charge to upgrade our content? Upgrading our library for free would be awesome and simple.

    A new Apple TV with 4K gaming will be amazing and convince a few gamers to buy.
    I don't think that 4K will do something for the ATV as a gaming device.  Sony, MS and Nintendo already control the market, and looks like it will be this way for many years.  
    Absolutely right!!

    Nokia, Blackberry and Motorola already controlled the phone market and Apple would never get in!!

    Casio, Rolex and Tag Huer already control the time piece market no way Apple will sell a single Watch!

    take into account the duds from Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony lately and Apple has 0% chancee!!!! 
    I din't say Apple has 0% of change in the gaming market.  I just point out how the big three, as today, control the living room gaming market.  Did Apple has a chance in the gaming console market?  Yes, they do.  Have the Apple TV has done something to make them a competitor in this market?  No.  

    Second, my comment was related to 4K gaming in the Apple TV.  Do you really think that Crossy Road in 4k has a chance against Uncharted, Halo or Mario / Zelda? Because that's the kind of gaming Apple has pushed in the Apple TV.  IMO, casual gaming in consoles are a weak market.  People already does their casual gaming in their mobile devices.  Non casual gaming in consoles are a different story, and Apple, as today, has nothing that can compete with the PS4, XBox or Switch.  
    edited July 2017
  • Reply 75 of 94
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    danvm said:
    I din't say Apple has 0% of change in the gaming market.  I just point out how the big three, as today, control the living room gaming market.  Did Apple has a chance in the gaming console market?  Yes, they do.  Have the Apple TV has done something to make them a competitor in this market?  No.  

    Second, my comment was related to 4K gaming in the Apple TV.  Do you really think that Crossy Road in 4k has a chance against Uncharted, Halo or Mario / Zelda? Because that's the kind of gaming Apple has pushed in the Apple TV.  IMO, casual gaming in consoles are a weak market.  People already does their casual gaming in their mobile devices.  Non casual gaming in consoles are a different story, and Apple, as today, has nothing that can compete with the PS4, XBox or Switch.  
    Let's do a text swap.

    I din't say Apple has 0% of change in the phone market.  I just point out how the big three (Sony, Nokia, and Research In Motion), as today, control the cell phone market.  Did Apple has a chance in the cell phone market?  Yes, they do.  Have the iPhone has done something to make them a competitor in this market? No.

    Second, my comment was related to touchscreen keyboards in the iPhone.  Do you really think that a software keyboard has a chance against the Blackberry's buttons? Because that's the kind of typing Apple has pushed in the iPhone. IMO, touchscreen keyboards in phones are a weak market.  People already does their TTY typing in their mobile devices.  Physical keyboards are a different story, and Apple, as today, has nothing that can compete with the Blackberry, RAZR or (I forget what else was popular back them).

    See? Now to discuss your actual point, the casual market is so large that the "big three" have done nothing but cater to casuals since 2007. There are virtually no "hardcore" games anymore. They make billions by dumbing down video games and catering to an audience that just wants to watch a movie instead; why would they put effort (time, efficient coding, and bugtesting) into a niche genre when they can make more money pumping out the same kiddie crap every year (Madden, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, etc.)? The casual market is the future of gaming until we see another Crash of '83.
  • Reply 76 of 94
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,409member
    danvm said:
    I din't say Apple has 0% of change in the gaming market.  I just point out how the big three, as today, control the living room gaming market.  Did Apple has a chance in the gaming console market?  Yes, they do.  Have the Apple TV has done something to make them a competitor in this market?  No.  

    Second, my comment was related to 4K gaming in the Apple TV.  Do you really think that Crossy Road in 4k has a chance against Uncharted, Halo or Mario / Zelda? Because that's the kind of gaming Apple has pushed in the Apple TV.  IMO, casual gaming in consoles are a weak market.  People already does their casual gaming in their mobile devices.  Non casual gaming in consoles are a different story, and Apple, as today, has nothing that can compete with the PS4, XBox or Switch.  
    Let's do a text swap.

    I din't say Apple has 0% of change in the phone market.  I just point out how the big three (Sony, Nokia, and Research In Motion), as today, control the cell phone market.  Did Apple has a chance in the cell phone market?  Yes, they do.  Have the iPhone has done something to make them a competitor in this market? No.  
    Second, my comment was related to touchscreen keyboards in the iPhone.  Do you really think that a software keyboard has a chance against the Blackberry's buttons? Because that's the kind of typing Apple has pushed in the iPhone. IMO, touchscreen keyboards in phones are a weak market.  People already does their TTY typing in their mobile devices.  Physical keyboards are a different story, and Apple, as today, has nothing that can compete with the Blackberry, RAZR or (I forget what else was popular back them).
    You can do text swap for as many products or companies companies you want, but my original line still true about ATV and gaming.  

    See? Now to discuss your actual point, the casual market is so large that the "big three" have done nothing but cater to casuals since 2007. There are virtually no "hardcore" games anymore. They make billions by dumbing down video games and catering to an audience that just wants to watch a movie instead; why would they put effort (time, efficient coding, and bugtesting) into a niche genre when they can make more money pumping out the same kiddie crap every year (Madden, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, etc.)? The casual market is the future of gaming until we see another Crash of '83.
    I you read my original comment, you'll notice it was related to the ATV and 4K gaming, and how a 4K Crossy Road won't make the ATV a competitor to Sony, MS or Nintendo.  I don't see how your post is related to it.  

  • Reply 77 of 94
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    danvm said:
    I don't see how your post is related to it.   
      TL;DR: You're wrong.
  • Reply 78 of 94
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,409member
    danvm said:
    I don't see how your post is related to it.   
      TL;DR: You're wrong.
    No, I don't think so.  ATV have many positives things, but gaming is not one of them, and IMO 4K won't change that.
    sirlance99
  • Reply 79 of 94
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,877member
    lkrupp said:
    clexman said:
    Hopefully the revamp extends to using a new design for the awful remote control
    I'm with you. The remote is a great idea, but I can't pick it up without bring up a menu.

    I now have to use 2 remotes instead of just 1 universal one because the DirectTV Now app doesn't work properly without the Apple Remote.

    I hate that I have to look at the remote to use it. If I feel for the buttons in the dark, a menu comes up.
    I agree. I had to put a rubber band around one end which I feel immediately. They should fix the shape. 
    Well maybe Apple should make a dozen or more remotes with different designs so everybody is satisfied and will quit complaining.
    Sorry, but no. If you can’t feel the proper orientation of the remote in the dark, it’s a fail. Without the rubber band hack I routinely picked it up the wrong way up and that resulted in a poor UX (accidentally scrubbing, menus, etc)
    edited July 2017
  • Reply 80 of 94
    Hopefully the revamp extends to using a new design for the awful remote control
    Interesting comment. 

    Ive thought has been one of the better remotes/interfaces I've used in digital smart boxes. But I have no experience prior to the latest gen. 

    Curious to know what you've found to be its shortcomings. 

    I think the remote is a miserable failure too. It's hard to hold onto and orientation is 50/50 (it's often grabbed upside down). It is NOT intuitive. Some of the shortcuts require a lesson from a video. What happened to it just works? Tracking on the pad is laggy and inaccurate. We do like that we need only one remote now though. This remote is the successor to the hockey puck mouse!

    Home sharing doesn't work for us and Apple Care can't fix it. If it weren't for Plex and the ecosystem I'd get rid of the Apple TV in a heartbeat.
Sign In or Register to comment.