It isn’t up to Apple to tell a sovereign people how to run their country. If the people of China don’t like being censored, then it’s up to them to end it. Frankly, Apple has given the people of China far more of a chance for real freedom than I ever dreamed possible. The same can be said for the world in general.
These sad sack opinionizers really don’t have a clue….
I still don't have a clear view on what Apple should have done here -- I still have an open mind on that -- but one thing seems obvious: the next time the issue of privacy crops up in the US (or in the EU) in a big way (e.g., as in the case of the San Bernadine terrorist), Apple may not have much of a leg to stand on.
Come again? How is Apple removing an app category from a certain country is akin to creating a backdoor into their OS?
Don't know if it was a "back"door or not (despite common parlance), but a VPN is simply another "door."
It isn’t up to Apple to tell a sovereign people how to run their country. If the people of China don’t like being censored, then it’s up to them to end it. Frankly, Apple has given the people of China far more of a chance for real freedom than I ever dreamed possible. The same can be said for the world in general.
These sad sack opinionizers really don’t have a clue….
I still don't have a clear view on what Apple should have done here -- I still have an open mind on that -- but one thing seems obvious: the next time the issue of privacy crops up in the US (or in the EU) in a big way (e.g., as in the case of the San Bernadine terrorist), Apple may not have much of a leg to stand on.
So you're suggesting Apple can't criticize the US government's stance on privacy because they don't criticize China's? That's absurd. Apple is a US corporation, this is their home. Further, the US is a democracy where citizens are free to say what they believe without fear of reprisal, and our government is of and for its people. All entirely different than China.
The issue is not whether you can (or should) criticize. That has nothing whatsoever to with privacy protection (or the lack of it).
It isn’t up to Apple to tell a sovereign people how to run their country. If the people of China don’t like being censored, then it’s up to them to end it. Frankly, Apple has given the people of China far more of a chance for real freedom than I ever dreamed possible. The same can be said for the world in general.
These sad sack opinionizers really don’t have a clue….
I still don't have a clear view on what Apple should have done here -- I still have an open mind on that -- but one thing seems obvious: the next time the issue of privacy crops up in the US (or in the EU) in a big way (e.g., as in the case of the San Bernadine terrorist), Apple may not have much of a leg to stand on.
Come again? How is Apple removing an app category from a certain country is akin to creating a backdoor into their OS?
Don't know if it was a "back"door or not (despite common parlance), but a VPN is simply another "door."
I thought that should be fairly obvious.
You think network tunnel is a synonym for hidden door into an OS? You think that building a weak point into your OS is the same as encapsulated data as an extra layer of security? I can’t even...
Once again Apple showing their true colors......Now if they only had the balls to block encrypted chat apps in the US and make the terrorists' comms a bit harder I'd appreciate it.
Once again Apple showing their true colors......Now if they only had the balls to block encrypted chat apps in the US and make the terrorists' comms a bit harder I'd appreciate it.
1) I'm pretty sure all chat apps are encrypted, or can you point to one that doesn't use SSL? iMessage also has some of the most significant security available.
First rule of doing business in foreign country is to follow their rules and regulations (this is broader than just Laws) - which is what Apple does, regardless of all the "Apple bow down to China" criticism it appears to receive from the media. The real issue here is why China forbidding VPN, everything else is just noise.
Also, on related note, iMessage is end-to-end encrypted, and China just started blocking WhatsApp.
It isn’t up to Apple to tell a sovereign people how to run their country. If the people of China don’t like being censored, then it’s up to them to end it. Frankly, Apple has given the people of China far more of a chance for real freedom than I ever dreamed possible. The same can be said for the world in general.
These sad sack opinionizers really don’t have a clue….
I still don't have a clear view on what Apple should have done here -- I still have an open mind on that -- but one thing seems obvious: the next time the issue of privacy crops up in the US (or in the EU) in a big way (e.g., as in the case of the San Bernadine terrorist), Apple may not have much of a leg to stand on.
Come again? How is Apple removing an app category from a certain country is akin to creating a backdoor into their OS?
Don't know if it was a "back"door or not (despite common parlance), but a VPN is simply another "door."
I thought that should be fairly obvious.
You think network tunnel is a synonym for hidden door into an OS? You think that building a weak point into your OS is the same as encapsulated data as an extra layer of security? I can’t even...
At this point you just sound pedantic, I am afraid. Do you have a point? If so, try making it.
It isn’t up to Apple to tell a sovereign people how to run their country. If the people of China don’t like being censored, then it’s up to them to end it. Frankly, Apple has given the people of China far more of a chance for real freedom than I ever dreamed possible. The same can be said for the world in general.
These sad sack opinionizers really don’t have a clue….
I still don't have a clear view on what Apple should have done here -- I still have an open mind on that -- but one thing seems obvious: the next time the issue of privacy crops up in the US (or in the EU) in a big way (e.g., as in the case of the San Bernadine terrorist), Apple may not have much of a leg to stand on.
Come again? How is Apple removing an app category from a certain country is akin to creating a backdoor into their OS?
Don't know if it was a "back"door or not (despite common parlance), but a VPN is simply another "door."
I thought that should be fairly obvious.
You think network tunnel is a synonym for hidden door into an OS? You think that building a weak point into your OS is the same as encapsulated data as an extra layer of security? I can’t even...
At this point you just sound pedantic, I am afraid. Do you have a point? If so, try making it.
If you really can’t comprehend the different between a VPN service and building a backdoor into an OS then there’s nothing I can possibly say that will make you understand.
sflocal said: I don't necessarily agree with you on this. Someone protests in China and chances are good that the person will disappear mysteriously and never heard from again.
Protest here in the US, and it will be all over the news, twitter, etc.. and the government is always trying to say "yes" to everyone, hence the chaos we have now.
I'm not necessarily equating China and the USA on this matter in every sense. What I'm saying is that Apple doesn't fear backlash - harming sales - in the USA due to taking the 'moral' stands they do. But, they do fear taking those stands in other countries, as the governments might impact their sales capabilities.
SpamSandwich said: The difference being that when a native-born Chinese person becomes an American citizen, they have our constitutionally protected rights.
Having Constitutionally protected rights, and actually living them are two different things, especially when it comes to gov't spying and such. They seem to be above the law and Constitution in recent decades (maybe always?). And, with liberal/postmodern justices, it's hard to pin down what those rights even are or mean anymore.
freerange said: BTW, China today is no more Communist than we are a real democracy!
The USA isn't supposed to be a real democracy... and that's a very good thing. A real democracy, especially with a wisdom-challenged populace, would be horrifically scary.
muthuk_vanalingam said: That has been considered as one of the strongest points of Apple, compared to Android world. ... There is a strong belief with the majority of people in this forum that Apple would tame not just FBI, but anyone in the world if anyone (be it Chinese government or EU or Australian government or any other government) attempted anything (say ask Apple to deploy a backdoor in IOS for snooping) against apple's customers.
Comparing Apple to Android in this regard isn't saying all that much, though. But, I disagree, I think, on what I think it would take to break Apple's resolve... hence this whole article and thread!
designr said: I disagree. You may have to deal with or conform to laws you disagree with while trying, in one way or another, to change them. It may not be much fun, but this is the approach some chose to make. I don't think that necessarily makes them hypocrites.
Yes, I suppose it could be argued that this is a step in a long-term strategy... a trojan horse, if you will. I'm not saying Apple doesn't care about privacy. I'm just questioning which wins when push comes to shove (privacy or profits).
StrangeDays said: Further, the US is a democracy where citizens are free to say what they believe without fear of reprisal, and our government is of and for its people.
Not sure about Apple, but Cook has donated large sums of money to organizations who don't believe what you've stated. And, I'm not sure the government has been 'of and for its people' for quite a number of years.
Soli said: Are you suggesting that Apple sells your personal data to the Chinese gov’t? What part(s) of their written privacy policy are you saying Apple is being hypocritical about in the US with the removal of the VPN app category from China?
No, I think the point is that Apple when talking about privacy and free-speech doesn't simply seem to be saying, "because privacy and free-speech are US laws, we'll give you privacy and free-speech" but that it's some kind of ideal or principal they fight for.
First rule of doing business in foreign country is to follow their rules and regulations (this is broader than just Laws) - which is what Apple does ...
Depends on whether we're talking about a priority of corporate profits, or higher principals and morals. If principals and morals rule the day, maybe you just don't do business with countries who don't meet some level of ethics.
Comments
I thought that should be fairly obvious.
The issue is not whether you can (or should) criticize. That has nothing whatsoever to with privacy protection (or the lack of it).
2) You need a lot of tinfoil in your hat to suggest that Apple and China are doing aware with base encryption.
Also, on related note, iMessage is end-to-end encrypted, and China just started blocking WhatsApp.
Having Constitutionally protected rights, and actually living them are two different things, especially when it comes to gov't spying and such. They seem to be above the law and Constitution in recent decades (maybe always?). And, with liberal/postmodern justices, it's hard to pin down what those rights even are or mean anymore.
The USA isn't supposed to be a real democracy... and that's a very good thing. A real democracy, especially with a wisdom-challenged populace, would be horrifically scary.
Comparing Apple to Android in this regard isn't saying all that much, though.
But, I disagree, I think, on what I think it would take to break Apple's resolve... hence this whole article and thread!
Yes, I suppose it could be argued that this is a step in a long-term strategy... a trojan horse, if you will. I'm not saying Apple doesn't care about privacy. I'm just questioning which wins when push comes to shove (privacy or profits).
No, I think the point is that Apple when talking about privacy and free-speech doesn't simply seem to be saying, "because privacy and free-speech are US laws, we'll give you privacy and free-speech" but that it's some kind of ideal or principal they fight for.
If encryption gets blocked, we'll have much bigger things to fear than terrorists.
Depends on whether we're talking about a priority of corporate profits, or higher principals and morals. If principals and morals rule the day, maybe you just don't do business with countries who don't meet some level of ethics.