'Apple Watch Series 3' rumored to boast all-new form factor [u]

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 94
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,978member
    So locked down to developers and has helpless multitasking (not even as good as System 7), does not function as a watch as well as a watch and you will especially play the fool trying to show someone else what time it is), it can't play video or talk on low-power cell networks (battery limitation and screen size are their problems if they're not too busy playing with electric cars), proprietary watch bands (many of which are ridiculous but drag down the reputation of the whole product not just the watch band) and they come unglued if they get too warm costing a ridiculous amount of money (as a % of replacement cost) to repair or insure. The Emperor Has No Clothes.

    There should be a wide opportunity for another manufacturer to produce a superior product but it won't happen because it's too risky to take on a company the size of Apple whose competing product is integrated into the AppStore and leverages its proprietary Xcode tools. 10 year timeout for that product category according to Bill Gates's watch.
    hater Nonsense Narrative. clearly you don't own or use one. hint: i didn't get it to tell the time, and i have zero desire to play video on it. And you can get third party bands anywhere, for cheap. The glue issue exists but isn't widespread, just another manufacturing defect for some batches. 
  • Reply 62 of 94
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,978member

    polymnia said:
    Soli said:
    polymnia said:
    I hope that Apple ADDS TO, rather that REPLACES the current design. Why not have a round, square, rectangular and other shapes?
    The same reason that their other windowless OSes aren't changing up the aspect ratio constantly. They put a lot of forethought into changing every aspect ratio and resolution change so that it's as easy as possible for developers. Have at least 4 different UI aspect ratios at any given time for the same OS would just be a nightmare. How about you start by suggesting a second option and argue that the revenue and profits from Watch sales warrant the extra effort. From Apple's perspective, I don't think it does when you consider the heavily calculated approach to the iPhone, its biggest earner, but at least it would be on a footing is actually arguable.
    Anyway, Apple has managed to get devs to buy into 4 different iPhone screen sizes (about to be 5, if the rumors are to be believed). There have been 4 different iPad screen sizes. 

    Bottom line, I'm more interested in fashionable watch designs than I am in making it cookie cutter easy for devs to build the front end of their apps. Call me inconsiderate if you like. But Apple is a company that puts form on equal, if not better, footing with function. In a watch, I want something that looks good, tells time, shows me notifications, and has other apps available—in that order. 
    Supporting both round and rectangular apps on a single platform isn't the same as having multiple screen sizes on iphone or ipad. One is a variance in size, the other is an entirely different shape. You can use adaptive layout to do the job once on different sized screens. But a circle screen vs a rectangle screen means entirely different layouts and workflows. Basically two apps, one per screen shape. 
  • Reply 63 of 94
    19831983 Posts: 1,183member
    The Watch's rectangular shape has become sort of iconic now, and differentiates it from the Android and Samsung competition who's smartwatches are all round and pretty much look the same as each other. If Apple go round face it'll look like everybody else's design. I say keep the same basic shape but get rid of the fat so to speak. Making it thinner and smaller overall without reducing the display size or strap compatibility.
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 64 of 94
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,093moderator
    Apple will not make a round Watch. They just won't. They've chosen the form, for very good reasons, and they will not change that decision.

    I could see them going a bit thinner as technical advancements allow, and there's one more change that I haven't seen anyone mention, but seems fairly obvious to me.  Apple may be taking a hard look at the Digital Crown.  It was a cool innovation, but it takes a lot of space and is a mechanical component that represents both the potential for failure and potentially makes it more difficult to waterproof the watch, thought that latter issue has been addressed.

    Sidenote:  I had the problem of the display on my first generation Watch coming loose.  I'm here in the Philippines, so had few options for getting an Apple-authorized repair, and the Watch face had gotten pretty roughed up in the 2+ years I've worn it, so I figured I'd implement a simple repair while waiting for a Series 2 to arrive with a friend who had traveled back to the states for a one-month visit (I ordered my Series 2 and had it delivered to his stateside home for him to bring back with him when he returned to the Philippines).  To continue using the Series 1 I simply superglued the display back in place, but I used a bit too much glue and some must have gotten into the Digital Crown housing,  the crown still rotates, but pressing it no longer worked as a button.  Maybe some glue got on the contact so no electricity will flow.  In addition, the superglued display no longer moves under a force touch, so that functionally was gone too.
    -----

    Most assuredly Apple will, in the future, try to eliminate these mechanical components.  Not sure how a virtual digital crown might work, but perhaps Apple will simply eliminate the crown altogether.  These are the types of innovations I'll be watching for.  
  • Reply 65 of 94
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,742member
    1983 said:
    The Watch's rectangular shape has become sort of iconic now, and differentiates it from the Android and Samsung competition who's smartwatches are all round and pretty much look the same as each other. If Apple go round face it'll look like everybody else's design. I say keep the same basic shape but get rid of the fat so to speak. Making it thinner and smaller overall without reducing the display size or strap compatibility.
    The Android/Other OS based smartwatches (!) are not all round, quite a few are rectangular including some that predated the Apple Watch (ie Sony Smartwatch, Pebble) so obviously not copying Apple's form-factor.
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 66 of 94
    AppleishAppleish Posts: 118member
    Won't be round. Competitors have proven how inferior that shape is, UI-wise on a smartwatch. Just look at iOS 4 previews. They make it even less likely it Can be round.

    My 1st gen is still going strong, with no problems. I got my wife a gen 2 for Christmas. Will likely upgrade mine this fall to gen 3.
    edited August 2017 Soli
  • Reply 67 of 94
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,695member
    Perhaps I have too much faith in Apple -- but I do not see them changing form factors simply because of some predetermined tick-tock 2 year cycle.   Apple isn't into the General Motors paradigm of changing the outside just to call it new.

    When a redesign makes the product better or is necessary for an improved functionality, they will change the form.  But, that being said, there are several things that could necessitate a form change:
    1)  Adding functions (Like a glucose monitor or battery power) to the bands might require a form change.
    2)  Adding an LTE modem might require more internal room both for the modem as well as for a bigger battery (or band as in above) to keep it running.
    3) As always, Mr Ives could decide it needs to be thinner.
    4) An upgraded, low power display (but I see that a few years out)
    5) Or, with Apple there is always the unexpected.

    But regardless, I don't think Apple will change the form without a strong functional reason.
  • Reply 68 of 94
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 31,187member
    mnbob1 said:
    dougd said:
    Daily charging makes this product something I'd never want. Certainly don't need it with an iPhone in my pocket.
    I've worn a watch on my wrist for over 35 years. I've never worn one to bed. Placing my Apple Watch on the charger overnight isn't really a problem for me. In fact when you place it on your night stand on its side it becomes a bedside clock with an alarm. Using a Bluetooth speaker it can even be a beside music player. If I haven't had my charger available I often get about 2 days because I take it off at night. When you don't wear it the Apple Watch uses less battery just as the iPhone uses less battery when it's laying on the desk or just in your pocket. (especially with iOS 11)

    Here's a good reason for owning and wearing an Apple Watch; I take blood thinners for a hereditary condition. Last week I started to severely bleed internally and was home by myself. I used the Apple Watch's emergency call feature since I had left my iPhone in another room on my desk. My watch call 911 and I was able to communicate with an operator and the paramedics were there in less than 10 minutes. After I hung up with 911 my Watch automatically called my wife's iPhone while she was at work and I told her what was happening and meet me at the hospital. (the paramedics pounded on me, pinched me, slapped me to keep me awake) The paramedics told me I was close to going into shock from loss of blood. My wife wouldn't have been home for another 6 hours. Without my Apple Watch it's possible that I could have passed out on the bathroom floor and maybe died.

    Also those who don't pay attention to Apple Heath on their iPhone, get familiar with it! I had my wife come home and pick up my iPhone from home before heading to the ER. Why? My clinic allows me to download my health record in XML and I had recently downloaded it to my iPhone as shown in an AI article from July 17,17. I was able to provide the information to the ER personnel to help them with my care.
    First of all... Good lord, man. I hope you're going to be alright.

    Second... It's never been clear to me what steps to take to get my medical records into the Health app. Are there any detailed explainers available that you know of which may be turned over to ones doctors office to inform the staff?
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 69 of 94
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,448member
    Appleish said:
    Won't be round. Competitors have proven how inferior that shape is, UI-wise on a smartwatch. Just look at iOS 4 previews. They make it even less likely it Can be round.

    My 1st gen is still going strong, with no problems. I got my wife a gen 2 for Christmas. Will likely upgrade mine this fall to gen 3.
    You mean, Google's and Samsung's inability to make a good round UI proves that Apple cannot improve on their efforts?

    Currently, Apple is designing a round UI for a round display, which is the exact same size as the 38mm Apple Watch, that sits on top of the HomePod. Whether that ultimately finds its way into a watch or not, Apple is designing a round UI, suggesting once again that Apples competitors don't have all the answers.
  • Reply 70 of 94
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,970member
    mac_128 said:
    Appleish said:
    Won't be round. Competitors have proven how inferior that shape is, UI-wise on a smartwatch. Just look at iOS 4 previews. They make it even less likely it Can be round.

    My 1st gen is still going strong, with no problems. I got my wife a gen 2 for Christmas. Will likely upgrade mine this fall to gen 3.
    You mean, Google's and Samsung's inability to make a good round UI proves that Apple cannot improve on their efforts?

    Currently, Apple is designing a round UI for a round display, which is the exact same size as the 38mm Apple Watch, that sits on top of the HomePod. Whether that ultimately finds its way into a watch or not, Apple is designing a round UI, suggesting once again that Apples competitors don't have all the answers.
    No one is saying that Apple can't make a round UI. They already have one for HomePod (as simple as that is through the plastic diffuser and it's for reading texts and glancing at wordy notifications a 100x a day ) but you need to make a case as to why Apple choose not to go with a traditional watch face (which started off round because the mechanics of a clock a center point for its arms), why they'd change it up now, and how information will be as readable on that watch face. The only argument I can see is that looking at the watch face starts to get deprecated over Siri responses in your ear or Apple creating a specialized fitness tracker, but I do not see those as being very likely.
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 71 of 94
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,742member
    jonagold said:
    I agree Mike1, everyone jumps to that conclusion that the strap connections would get redesigned.  I imagine Apple mapped the Watch several iterations into the future and I would highly doubt it includes shapeshifting it so soon. I'm sure the first question they beat to death was "what shape should it be and why?"  If anything I imagine it would be wider/rectangular, eventually turning into a cuff-like device way down the road. 
    It’s not an assumption, it’s a concern. It’s very important to maintain consistency with strap lugs. I’ve got 6 watch bands, including the black SS bracelet. I would hate it if Apple did something that would obsolete those, or made some adapter cluster that would be clumsy, or fugly.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 72 of 94
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,742member

    All of the icons on the rounded rectangle devices are rounded rectangles. All of the icons on the watch are circles. This leads me to believe that the Apple Watch was always intended to eventually be round.
    I doubt it. Though that doesn’t mean that they won’t have a round(ish) model at some point, along with the rectangle (it’s NOT square guys!).
  • Reply 73 of 94
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,742member

    Had the technology for a digital watch existed right from the start, it would have been absurd to create a round watch body/face, as there simply would have been no imperative to create a form so inefficient to the function of the timepiece.  Apple has simply set aside that imperative and determined that the best form is a watch body with straight sides, that simply extend the straight lines of the band around the wrist.  It's a more functionally elegant solution to the problem once you free yourself of the need to accommodate circular movements and the circular watch face those impose.  

    Today, traditional round watch faces are a cultural tradition, but culture evolves and so do forms and the fashions that reflect them.  Apple will not build round smartwatches, as they are not the appropriate form for the smartwatch paradigm.  It's just that simple.  The rest are doing so in order to differentiate from Apple and to take advantage of the existing cultural dogma.  The future will take care to correct their error.

    I have a very strong belief that a lot of people who say they don’t like the rectangular form simply don’t want a smart watch for various reason, which I’m not going to go into here, and this gives them an excuse to not buy one.
  • Reply 74 of 94
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,742member

    So locked down to developers and has helpless multitasking (not even as good as System 7), does not function as a watch as well as a watch and you will especially play the fool trying to show someone else what time it is), it can't play video or talk on low-power cell networks (battery limitation and screen size are their problems if they're not too busy playing with electric cars), proprietary watch bands (many of which are ridiculous but drag down the reputation of the whole product not just the watch band) and they come unglued if they get too warm costing a ridiculous amount of money (as a % of replacement cost) to repair or insure. The Emperor Has No Clothes.

    There should be a wide opportunity for another manufacturer to produce a superior product but it won't happen because it's too risky to take on a company the size of Apple whose competing product is integrated into the AppStore and leverages its proprietary Xcode tools. 10 year timeout for that product category according to Bill Gates's watch.
    What a bunch of crap your post is.
  • Reply 75 of 94
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,970member
    melgross said:
    jonagold said:
    I agree Mike1, everyone jumps to that conclusion that the strap connections would get redesigned.  I imagine Apple mapped the Watch several iterations into the future and I would highly doubt it includes shapeshifting it so soon. I'm sure the first question they beat to death was "what shape should it be and why?"  If anything I imagine it would be wider/rectangular, eventually turning into a cuff-like device way down the road. 
    It’s not an assumption, it’s a concern. It’s very important to maintain consistency with strap lugs. I’ve got 6 watch bands, including the black SS bracelet. I would hate it if Apple did something that would obsolete those, or made some adapter cluster that would be clumsy, or fugly.
    Do you think this is a major concern? Eventually I expect them to better the design which will make it incompatible with current bands, but I'd think we have at least a couple years before that happens. I find Apple frustratingly slow to act on such changes. How long did the ODD last? How long did the 30pin iPod dock connector last? I think you'll fine this year.
  • Reply 76 of 94
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,742member
    avon b7 said:

    For me, it's round and slim or nothing but I don't think that's technologically possible right now so I'll skip watches completely.

    'Round and slim' is not technologically possible? Says who?

    The only issue is whether it is technologically optimal. 
    Neither is impossible. But not doable now, unless the Watch is really big. Even my large size Apple Watch isn’t really big. The biggest mechanical watches these days, which are round, are up to 52mm across. Now, that’s big.

    so if you have a big watch, it could have a big, though thinner, battery. The round face would be big, which would lower the problems with a round display.

    by the way, most all Android Wear watches are big, as they need to be because of the round display, which is incredibly inefficient in transmitting data to the eye.
  • Reply 77 of 94
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,742member
    Marvin said:
    jd_in_sb said:
    Battery life is the most needed improvement. 
    The battery is one of the biggest problems in wearables (all mobile devices really). It takes up so much of the internal space:

    Image result for apple watch inside

    When it's removed, it's not that big on its own:

    Image result for apple watch battery

    The Watch could be much thinner if they could integrate the battery into the band. This way you'd never need to charge the Watch itself, just the band and then switch the band. Different bands can have different capacities. But it has to be water resistant and this could compromise the design of the bands. It would make the Watch more durable as battery expansion wouldn't damage the Watch itself. It might not mean having to buy batteries with every strap though. If they had the battery split in two and integrated into a strap connector, it could slot in between the strap and the Watch on each side, which keeps the strap independent of the battery and avoids putting power all down the strap.



    With so much internal space, they can change the Watch shape quite a bit. Making it much thinner would be the obvious step. They could also put a curve on it so that it conforms more to the wrist, like they do with the buckle underneath, the profile of the Watch would be more like the bottom of the following image vs the top:

    Image result for apple watch buckle

    Some battery advances can make it thinner internally, solid state batteries will replace current ones when they can manufacture them at scale:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-03/tech-guru-bill-joy-unveils-a-battery-to-challenge-lithium-ion
    I don’t like the idea of the battery in the band. Apple would need to have wireless power going from the band to the watch in order to maintain the 50Meter water resistant rating. But as battery life is limited as it is, the inefficiency of that would reduce battery lifer further. Though, maybe the could put a larger battery in.

    i still don’t like the idea though. Look,at the smart watches with batteries, or other functions in the bands, such as some of Samsung’s models, and you see very thick bands in the top third that have no flex mare very bulky, and uncomfortable, according to reviews. Also, the price on bands would go up considerably, as all bands would need a battery.

    so far, no evidence that solid state batteries would be thinner.
    SoliGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 78 of 94
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,742member
    Apple will not make a round Watch. They just won't. They've chosen the form, for very good reasons, and they will not change that decision.

    I could see them going a bit thinner as technical advancements allow, and there's one more change that I haven't seen anyone mention, but seems fairly obvious to me.  Apple may be taking a hard look at the Digital Crown.  It was a cool innovation, but it takes a lot of space and is a mechanical component that represents both the potential for failure and potentially makes it more difficult to waterproof the watch, thought that latter issue has been addressed.

    Sidenote:  I had the problem of the display on my first generation Watch coming loose.  I'm here in the Philippines, so had few options for getting an Apple-authorized repair, and the Watch face had gotten pretty roughed up in the 2+ years I've worn it, so I figured I'd implement a simple repair while waiting for a Series 2 to arrive with a friend who had traveled back to the states for a one-month visit (I ordered my Series 2 and had it delivered to his stateside home for him to bring back with him when he returned to the Philippines).  To continue using the Series 1 I simply superglued the display back in place, but I used a bit too much glue and some must have gotten into the Digital Crown housing,  the crown still rotates, but pressing it no longer worked as a button.  Maybe some glue got on the contact so no electricity will flow.  In addition, the superglued display no longer moves under a force touch, so that functionally was gone too.
    -----

    Most assuredly Apple will, in the future, try to eliminate these mechanical components.  Not sure how a virtual digital crown might work, but perhaps Apple will simply eliminate the crown altogether.  These are the types of innovations I'll be watching for.  
    The Digital Crown is great. A very good idea. And despite the hate for it I would read around the internet from those who are obviously Google fans, now that Android Wear 2 has incorporated it, that hate has died down out of necessity. There is no mechanical linkage between the crown and the rest of the watch. It’s a tiny optical encoder. I’ve designed with OECs for years. They are often the most reliable part of the design. All they are is a spin component, which is very reliable and the read function. Pretty much nothing to break. OECs can be sealed off very easily.
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 79 of 94
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,742member
    mac_128 said:
    Appleish said:
    Won't be round. Competitors have proven how inferior that shape is, UI-wise on a smartwatch. Just look at iOS 4 previews. They make it even less likely it Can be round.

    My 1st gen is still going strong, with no problems. I got my wife a gen 2 for Christmas. Will likely upgrade mine this fall to gen 3.
    You mean, Google's and Samsung's inability to make a good round UI proves that Apple cannot improve on their efforts?

    Currently, Apple is designing a round UI for a round display, which is the exact same size as the 38mm Apple Watch, that sits on top of the HomePod. Whether that ultimately finds its way into a watch or not, Apple is designing a round UI, suggesting once again that Apples competitors don't have all the answers.
    Where do you get your information from other than from some rumor source? You say it as though you know for certain. I would doubt that.

    round is round. Everyone is stuck with a similar problem developing for a round display. It isn’t so much the watch functions, whether digital or faux analog, it’s the text functions. There’s nothing that anyone, including Apple, can do about round meaning few characters at top and bottom. There’s no magic that Apple can do about that. There’s no magic that anyone can do about that. It’s harder to read text whose lines extend and then shrink as you go down the display. It’s worse when that one word at top becomes three words and the five words and then six words on a line, only to move to other lines as the words per line shrink again as you scroll the text down. And having corners makes it easier to place complications around the dial where hands don’t cover them as they slowly move around the face. I’ve got some expensive mechanical watches with complications, and if the light isn’t good, it’s tough to see them. When the hands cover them, it’s impossible.

    so round isn’t always ideal for mechanical spinning hands watches, much less smart watches. And some of the most expensive high end watches aren’t round. It’s also interesting that if you get Watch magazines, either in print, or in the iPad, you’ll notice that most Watch designers and owners of Watch companies wear rectangular or square watches, not round ones.
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 80 of 94
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,970member
    melgross said:
    Apple will not make a round Watch. They just won't. They've chosen the form, for very good reasons, and they will not change that decision.

    I could see them going a bit thinner as technical advancements allow, and there's one more change that I haven't seen anyone mention, but seems fairly obvious to me.  Apple may be taking a hard look at the Digital Crown.  It was a cool innovation, but it takes a lot of space and is a mechanical component that represents both the potential for failure and potentially makes it more difficult to waterproof the watch, thought that latter issue has been addressed.

    Sidenote:  I had the problem of the display on my first generation Watch coming loose.  I'm here in the Philippines, so had few options for getting an Apple-authorized repair, and the Watch face had gotten pretty roughed up in the 2+ years I've worn it, so I figured I'd implement a simple repair while waiting for a Series 2 to arrive with a friend who had traveled back to the states for a one-month visit (I ordered my Series 2 and had it delivered to his stateside home for him to bring back with him when he returned to the Philippines).  To continue using the Series 1 I simply superglued the display back in place, but I used a bit too much glue and some must have gotten into the Digital Crown housing,  the crown still rotates, but pressing it no longer worked as a button.  Maybe some glue got on the contact so no electricity will flow.  In addition, the superglued display no longer moves under a force touch, so that functionally was gone too.
    -----

    Most assuredly Apple will, in the future, try to eliminate these mechanical components.  Not sure how a virtual digital crown might work, but perhaps Apple will simply eliminate the crown altogether.  These are the types of innovations I'll be watching for.  
    The Digital Crown is great. A very good idea. And despite the hate for it I would read around the internet from those who are obviously Google fans, now that Android Wear 2 has incorporated it, that hate has died down out of necessity.
    Now it’s obvious and Apple didn’t think of anything new¡

    PS: I like the round, mechanical dial around the display. In and of itself it’s a good utility, but it’s simply not an ideal design since the display also needs to be round when you’re displaying the amount of text that makes the Apple Watch a great product.
    edited August 2017
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