Barclays survey suggests Apple's iPhone Upgrade Program well suited for 'iPhone 8' pricing...

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 38
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 10,708member
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    pbrutto said:
    This is all well and good to me (full disclosure, member of the program). BUT: if, like last year, I cannot even preorder one due to the upgrade program debacle.....what’s the point?
    pbrutto said:
    This is all well and good to me (full disclosure, member of the program). BUT: if, like last year, I cannot even preorder one due to the upgrade program debacle.....what’s the point?
    Upgrade Program participants should have their orders filled first, because their orders were placed 12-18-24 months earlier than customers placing one-time orders in September. Not only would that policy be fair, but it would also cause a LOT more people to join the Program. By reserving the first iPhone units for Program members, Apple would effectively be charging for an earlier place in line.
    You two sound entitled as fuck. You're using a program so you can pay less out of pocket up front. That's it! You don't deserve anything extra from Apple for buying on credit.
    The best way to lie is to tell part of the truth.
    ... And that is part of the truth…
    What is the other part(s)?
    The main reason for participating in the program is to pretty much always be using a new phone.   Stay current with Apple.  Those people are probably Apple's most loyal fans...

    To say they are doing it strictly for financial advantage is wrong:   If you were worried only about money you would take advantage of one of the 2 year contracts from a carrier - after which you own the phone and can continue using it...
  • Reply 22 of 38
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,032member
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    pbrutto said:
    This is all well and good to me (full disclosure, member of the program). BUT: if, like last year, I cannot even preorder one due to the upgrade program debacle.....what’s the point?
    pbrutto said:
    This is all well and good to me (full disclosure, member of the program). BUT: if, like last year, I cannot even preorder one due to the upgrade program debacle.....what’s the point?
    Upgrade Program participants should have their orders filled first, because their orders were placed 12-18-24 months earlier than customers placing one-time orders in September. Not only would that policy be fair, but it would also cause a LOT more people to join the Program. By reserving the first iPhone units for Program members, Apple would effectively be charging for an earlier place in line.
    You two sound entitled as fuck. You're using a program so you can pay less out of pocket up front. That's it! You don't deserve anything extra from Apple for buying on credit.
    The best way to lie is to tell part of the truth.
    ... And that is part of the truth…
    What is the other part(s)?
    The main reason for participating in the program is to pretty much always be using a new phone.   Stay current with Apple.  Those people are probably Apple's most loyal fans...

    To say they are doing it strictly for financial advantage is wrong:   If you were worried only about money you would take advantage of one of the 2 year contracts from a carrier - after which you own the phone and can continue using it…
    And. you can do that when you by an iPhone up right, without a payment plan. This deal with Citizens One doesn't fucking change a damn thing.
  • Reply 23 of 38
    Soli said:
    pbrutto said:
    This is all well and good to me (full disclosure, member of the program). BUT: if, like last year, I cannot even preorder one due to the upgrade program debacle.....what’s the point?
    pbrutto said:
    This is all well and good to me (full disclosure, member of the program). BUT: if, like last year, I cannot even preorder one due to the upgrade program debacle.....what’s the point?
    Upgrade Program participants should have their orders filled first, because their orders were placed 12-18-24 months earlier than customers placing one-time orders in September. Not only would that policy be fair, but it would also cause a LOT more people to join the Program. By reserving the first iPhone units for Program members, Apple would effectively be charging for an earlier place in line.
    You two sound entitled as fuck. You're using a program so you can pay less out of pocket up front. That's it! You don't deserve anything extra from Apple for buying on credit.
    @Soli - I'm not in the Renewal Program, dude, so I'm not "using" it to save money or get credit. I wrote a comment, which you did not take at face value. I said that if you order an iPhone today for delivery 12 months hence, Apple should set one aside for you before selling it to someone who has been buying Android phones for the past 10 years. If you don't agree, that's great. A calm demeanor and clear logic are not for everyone.
    I've been buying iPhones from the past 10 years. I've been paying full cost for all of them upfront. I think I am more entitled to having an iPhone reserved for me every September than someone who pays in instalments.
    Soliwatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 38
    ireland said:
    Someone at Barclay's owns AAPL
    Barclays provides the financing for the Apple Upgrade program in the UK. read the small print here https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/iphone/iphone-upgrade-program
  • Reply 25 of 38
    I posted here when the first rumors began to swirl about a $1200 price tag, that the incremental monthly increase to a 24 month contract was only about $15.00.

    there's a reason all those "As Seen on TV" deals are $19.95. The average consumer doesn't think anything of a $20 expense. A well heeled consumer (Apple's target) would think nothing of a $20 increase to a monthly plan, especially if there is perceived extra value (larger OLED display?).
    Your last sentence is important. Do people perceive its worth the extra $$? Or is Apple thinking they can get away with the higher price because more people are buying on installment and won’t care if their monthly bill is an extra $15 or $20. I’m not sure I agree because if the phone is $1200 (or more) that’s what the media is going to focus on. At some point people are going to balk at higher prices. And what if this phone follows the Apple Watch where the higher price is more due to aesthetics than the technology inside. Will people pay more for just an oled display and perhaps more ‘premium’ materials used on the case? Or are they going or expect more, like a much better camera, more sensors, different SoC?
  • Reply 26 of 38
    Side question.

    I have iPhone 7 on the AUP (2 years now; 6, then 7), and will wonder at the end of this Nov when we're due, can I buy-out the rest of this phone, leave the AUP, and keep this phone for the next few years?

    That could save the $3x/month and save over the next few years.  These 7s are pretty awesome.  Maybe sit out a couple upgrade cycles?

    Thanks for subsidizing my research-lazyness with any advice...

    E.

  • Reply 27 of 38
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,032member
    I posted here when the first rumors began to swirl about a $1200 price tag, that the incremental monthly increase to a 24 month contract was only about $15.00.

    there's a reason all those "As Seen on TV" deals are $19.95. The average consumer doesn't think anything of a $20 expense. A well heeled consumer (Apple's target) would think nothing of a $20 increase to a monthly plan, especially if there is perceived extra value (larger OLED display?).
    Your last sentence is important. Do people perceive its worth the extra $$? Or is Apple thinking they can get away with the higher price because more people are buying on installment and won’t care if their monthly bill is an extra $15 or $20. I’m not sure I agree because if the phone is $1200 (or more) that’s what the media is going to focus on. At some point people are going to balk at higher prices. And what if this phone follows the Apple Watch where the higher price is more due to aesthetics than the technology inside. Will people pay more for just an oled display and perhaps more ‘premium’ materials used on the case? Or are they going or expect more, like a much better camera, more sensors, different SoC?
    It's very real. Look at it in terms of a larger expensive typically bought on credit, like a house or car. Those usually have interests rates and yet people can very easily buy above their means. You can also see people buying beyond their means or buying things they don't need with credit cards and store cards. I'm sure there is much psychology about this on the internet.

    Personally, I really don't care to pay on credit but I also like my money to work for me so I bought my homes in cash, but buy my cars on credit because they offer 0% APR loans. I also use various credit cards at various establishments which I pay off monthly and then reap the rewards system they offer.

    Despite all these measures to work the system without paying extra last year I purposely bought the highest capacity iPhone for the first time in many generations so I could see if I would utilize the extra capacity and with the knowledge that it would likely* only be for one year and only a few dollars more a month.

    I like Apple's 0% APR program with Citizens One because I always buy AppleCare+ with every iPhone, hated paying that extra cost for 2 years of protection I didn't usually need**,and getting the convenience of just trading it back into Apple instead of waiting time trying to squeeze out a couple dollars selling on Craig's List or eBay.


    * I saw likely because this can go away at any time. There is no requirement Apple will offer their upgrade program every year.
    ** I only found out the year the upgrade program started that you can get Apple to issue you a prorated refund for unused AC+ protection.
  • Reply 28 of 38
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,032member

    Side question.

    I have iPhone 7 on the AUP (2 years now; 6, then 7), and will wonder at the end of this Nov when we're due, can I buy-out the rest of this phone, leave the AUP, and keep this phone for the next few years?

    That could save the $3x/month and save over the next few years.  These 7s are pretty awesome.  Maybe sit out a couple upgrade cycles?

    Thanks for subsidizing my research-lazyness with any advice…
    Apple's program is not a lease. You're buying the device in installments. You have no obligation to get a new iPhone after a year. You have no obligation to hand in your iPhone to Apple at any time. Once it's paid off it's yours free and clear.

    You can also pay off the balance every year so you can keep the device and still use their upgrade program since each new re-up is a new credit check and contract.
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 29 of 38
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,764member
    Soli said:
    pbrutto said:
    This is all well and good to me (full disclosure, member of the program). BUT: if, like last year, I cannot even preorder one due to the upgrade program debacle.....what’s the point?
    pbrutto said:
    This is all well and good to me (full disclosure, member of the program). BUT: if, like last year, I cannot even preorder one due to the upgrade program debacle.....what’s the point?
    Upgrade Program participants should have their orders filled first, because their orders were placed 12-18-24 months earlier than customers placing one-time orders in September. Not only would that policy be fair, but it would also cause a LOT more people to join the Program. By reserving the first iPhone units for Program members, Apple would effectively be charging for an earlier place in line.
    You two sound entitled as fuck. You're using a program so you can pay less out of pocket up front. That's it! You don't deserve anything extra from Apple for buying on credit.
    @Soli - I'm not in the Renewal Program, dude, so I'm not "using" it to save money or get credit. I wrote a comment, which you did not take at face value. I said that if you order an iPhone today for delivery 12 months hence, Apple should set one aside for you before selling it to someone who has been buying Android phones for the past 10 years. If you don't agree, that's great. A calm demeanor and clear logic are not for everyone.
    I've been buying iPhones from the past 10 years. I've been paying full cost for all of them upfront. I think I am more entitled to having an iPhone reserved for me every September than someone who pays in instalments.
    It’s nice to think things. 
  • Reply 30 of 38
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,764member

    I posted here when the first rumors began to swirl about a $1200 price tag, that the incremental monthly increase to a 24 month contract was only about $15.00.

    there's a reason all those "As Seen on TV" deals are $19.95. The average consumer doesn't think anything of a $20 expense. A well heeled consumer (Apple's target) would think nothing of a $20 increase to a monthly plan, especially if there is perceived extra value (larger OLED display?).
    Your last sentence is important. Do people perceive its worth the extra $$? Or is Apple thinking they can get away with the higher price because more people are buying on installment and won’t care if their monthly bill is an extra $15 or $20. I’m not sure I agree because if the phone is $1200 (or more) that’s what the media is going to focus on. At some point people are going to balk at higher prices. And what if this phone follows the Apple Watch where the higher price is more due to aesthetics than the technology inside. Will people pay more for just an oled display and perhaps more ‘premium’ materials used on the case? Or are they going or expect more, like a much better camera, more sensors, different SoC?
    Forged steel  is more expensive than milled aluminum. Gold is more expensive than steel. 
  • Reply 31 of 38
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,032member
    Soli said:
    pbrutto said:
    This is all well and good to me (full disclosure, member of the program). BUT: if, like last year, I cannot even preorder one due to the upgrade program debacle.....what’s the point?
    pbrutto said:
    This is all well and good to me (full disclosure, member of the program). BUT: if, like last year, I cannot even preorder one due to the upgrade program debacle.....what’s the point?
    Upgrade Program participants should have their orders filled first, because their orders were placed 12-18-24 months earlier than customers placing one-time orders in September. Not only would that policy be fair, but it would also cause a LOT more people to join the Program. By reserving the first iPhone units for Program members, Apple would effectively be charging for an earlier place in line.
    You two sound entitled as fuck. You're using a program so you can pay less out of pocket up front. That's it! You don't deserve anything extra from Apple for buying on credit.
    @Soli - I'm not in the Renewal Program, dude, so I'm not "using" it to save money or get credit. I wrote a comment, which you did not take at face value. I said that if you order an iPhone today for delivery 12 months hence, Apple should set one aside for you before selling it to someone who has been buying Android phones for the past 10 years. If you don't agree, that's great. A calm demeanor and clear logic are not for everyone.
    I've been buying iPhones from the past 10 years. I've been paying full cost for all of them upfront. I think I am more entitled to having an iPhone reserved for me every September than someone who pays in instalments.
    It’s nice to think things. 
    I believe he’s using satire in response to those that feel entitled for buying on credit. 
  • Reply 32 of 38
    Soli said:
    Can I buy-out the rest of this phone, leave the AUP, and keep this phone for the next few years?
    Apple's program is not a lease. You're buying the device in installments. You have no obligation to get a new iPhone after a year. You have no obligation to hand in your iPhone to Apple at any time. Once it's paid off it's yours free and clear.

    You can also pay off the balance every year so you can keep the device and still use their upgrade program since each new re-up is a new credit check and contract.
    I see what you're saying, and that does match my experience.   When getting 7 on AUP, it was made clear that it was a fresh transaction.

    So without upgrading, one just pays off the phone, which is roughly half-paid-off after 1 year anyway. (edit, I said "2" at first).

    Thanks for the clarity.

    That does help to explain why they wanted a fresh credit check. 
    At the time I was annoyed, thinking, "Haven't I already proven I'm good for $35/month?!?!?!"

    A few brain-cells go a long way sometimes!  :smile: 

    Thanks.
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 33 of 38
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,032member
    Soli said:
    Can I buy-out the rest of this phone, leave the AUP, and keep this phone for the next few years?
    Apple's program is not a lease. You're buying the device in installments. You have no obligation to get a new iPhone after a year. You have no obligation to hand in your iPhone to Apple at any time. Once it's paid off it's yours free and clear.

    You can also pay off the balance every year so you can keep the device and still use their upgrade program since each new re-up is a new credit check and contract.
    I see what you're saying, and that does match my experience.   When getting 7 on AUP, it was made clear that it was a fresh transaction.

    So without upgrading, one just pays off the phone, which is roughly half-paid-off after 1 year anyway. (edit, I said "2" at first).

    Thanks for the clarity.

    That does help to explain why they wanted a fresh credit check. 
    At the time I was annoyed, thinking, "Haven't I already proven I'm good for $35/month?!?!?!"

    A few brain-cells go a long way sometimes!  :smile: 

    Thanks.
    I understand why they did a fresh credit check but I was still annoyed by it since they have a history of me paying on time for a year. They could use their internal system to verify which candidates are safe, if they wanted to. I was told it would be a hard hit to my credit report but I saw no evidence of that (those stay on for 24 months and negatively affect your credit rating).

    I just made an increase request for one CC over the weeekd and it was given without any additional credit check. Now, most of these financial instiions seems to be partnered with one credit bureau that I can check at any time on my account webpage, so perhaps they can also look at that without even a soft hit showing up.
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 34 of 38
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    Soli said:
    pbrutto said:
    This is all well and good to me (full disclosure, member of the program). BUT: if, like last year, I cannot even preorder one due to the upgrade program debacle.....what’s the point?
    pbrutto said:
    This is all well and good to me (full disclosure, member of the program). BUT: if, like last year, I cannot even preorder one due to the upgrade program debacle.....what’s the point?
    Upgrade Program participants should have their orders filled first, because their orders were placed 12-18-24 months earlier than customers placing one-time orders in September. Not only would that policy be fair, but it would also cause a LOT more people to join the Program. By reserving the first iPhone units for Program members, Apple would effectively be charging for an earlier place in line.
    You two sound entitled as fuck. You're using a program so you can pay less out of pocket up front. That's it! You don't deserve anything extra from Apple for buying on credit.
    Yes they do if they would otherwise be on a 2 to 3 year replacement cycle.  My wife is sporting my old iPhone 6 because the 2 year subsidy cycle ended.  Now instead of 2 new phones every two years it's one new phone in maybe 2-3 years.  Since she doesn't game the performance improvements don't typically matter.  She's really only missing out on camera improvements.

    If I'm paying a higher TCO for a 12 month replacement cycle as a benefit, I'd want it to be at the 12 month mark and not whenever they get around to it.  It's not "extra" as I'm paying more per month over holding my phone for a longer period.

    Using flawless gazelle trade in pricing (which will be somewhere between selling on craigslist vs just selling on gazelle) we see the following:

    Edit:  Oops two mistakes.  Forgot AppleCare (because I don't buy it anymore) and used the iPhone 7 price on the program vs iPhone 7+

    A new iPhone 7+ 32GB today is $769 + $129 from Apple ($898).
    Gazelle offers $310 for a flawless iPhone 7+ 32GB.

    Ownership TCO for 12 month upgrade is $588.  
    Under the upgrade it's $448.92 ($37.41/month)

    TCO for a 12 month ownership heavily favors the upgrade program (37.41/mo vs $49/mo) even if you don't buy AppleCare+ ($38.25/mo)

    Ownership TCO for 24 month upgrade is $898 - $160 (current 6s+ flawless price) or $738
    Under the upgrade it's $897 - $160 or $736

    TCO on a 24 month cycle is on par straight out purchase unless you don't buy AppleCare ($32/month vs $37.41/month).

    However, if we assume the residual value of the phone is $0 after three years (i.e. the iPhone 6+) the TCO per month is $24.94.  However the trade in value is $115 for Good (not flawless) condition...or $21.33 per month ($18.17/month without AppleCare+).

    Users are trending more toward a 3 year cycle.  Apple wants a 12 month replacement cycle.  They SHOULD prioritize users on the program vs folks like me replacing a 3+ year old phone.  I probably don't care if I have to wait a month. Folks on the program are paying a premium for a new phone every 12 months.

    If for nothing else because they pay for AppleCare+ when there are cheaper alternatives.  First you already get 12 months limited warranty so AppleCare+ is really optional for those on a 12 month cycle.  Second, because theft and damage up to $500 is covered by some Visa cards.

    "What is Cellular Telephone Protection?

    Subject to the terms and conditions provided in this Guide to Benefit, Cellular Telephone Protection will reimburse the enrolled Visa cardholder (the “Cardholder”, also referred to as “You” or “Your”) for damage to or theft of eligible Cellular Wireless Telephones. Eligible Cellular Wireless Telephones are the primary line and up to the first two secondary, additional, or supplemental lines as listed on Your cellular provider’s monthly billing statement for the billing cycle preceding the month in which the theft or damage occurred. Cellular Telephone Protection is subject to a fifty-dollar ($50.00) co-payment per claim and a maximum of two (2) claims per twelve (12) month period. The maximum benefit limit is five-hundred-dollars ($500.00) per claim and one-thousand- dollars ($1,000.00) per twelve (12) month period." 

    https://www.firstcitizens.com/pdfs/disclosures/creditcard/firstcitizens-cell-phone.pdf

    But don't let logic or math get in the way of insulting others...

    edited August 2017
  • Reply 35 of 38
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,032member
    nht said:
    Soli said:
    pbrutto said:
    This is all well and good to me (full disclosure, member of the program). BUT: if, like last year, I cannot even preorder one due to the upgrade program debacle.....what’s the point?
    pbrutto said:
    This is all well and good to me (full disclosure, member of the program). BUT: if, like last year, I cannot even preorder one due to the upgrade program debacle.....what’s the point?
    Upgrade Program participants should have their orders filled first, because their orders were placed 12-18-24 months earlier than customers placing one-time orders in September. Not only would that policy be fair, but it would also cause a LOT more people to join the Program. By reserving the first iPhone units for Program members, Apple would effectively be charging for an earlier place in line.
    You two sound entitled as fuck. You're using a program so you can pay less out of pocket up front. That's it! You don't deserve anything extra from Apple for buying on credit.
    Yes they do if they would otherwise be on a 2 to 3 year replacement cycle.  My wife is sporting my old iPhone 6 because the 2 year subsidy cycle ended.  Now instead of 2 new phones every two years it's one new phone in maybe 2-3 years.  Since she doesn't game the performance improvements don't typically matter.  She's really only missing out on camera improvements.

    If I'm paying a higher TCO for a 12 month replacement cycle as a benefit, I'd want it to be at the 12 month mark and not whenever they get around to it.  It's not "extra" as I'm paying more per month over holding my phone for a longer period.

    Using flawless gazelle trade in pricing (which will be somewhere between selling on craigslist vs just selling on gazelle) we see the following:

    A new iPhone 7+ 32GB today is $769 from Apple.
    Gazelle offers $310 for a flawless iPhone 7+ 32GB.

    Ownership TCO for 12 month upgrade is $459.  
    Under the upgrade it's $388.92 ($32.41/month)

    TCO for a 12 month ownership favors the upgrade program (32.41/mo vs $38.25/mo)

    Ownership TCO for 24 month upgrade is $769 - $160 (current 6s+ flawless price) or $609
    Under the upgrade it's $777 - $160 or $617

    TCO on a 24 month cycle is slightly favors straight out purchase.

    However, if we assume the residual value of the phone is $0 after three years (i.e. the iPhone 6+) the TCO per month is $21.36.  However the trade in value is $115 for Good (not flawless) condition...or $18.17 per month.

    Users are trending more toward a 3 year cycle.  Apple wants a 12 month replacement cycle.  They SHOULD prioritize users on the program vs folks like me replacing a 3+ year old phone.  I probably don't care if I have to wait a month. Folks on the program are paying a premium for a new phone every 12 months.

    But don't let logic or math get in the way of insulting others...

    You're logic is bullshit. I know people that signed up and having had a new iPhone in 2 years now, and I know people that pay out of pocket yet have a new iPhone every year. The program costs no more whether you whether you keep your iPhone for 6 months (minimum for the program), 1 year, 2 years, or 3 years. Not a single extra dime is paid to Apple for choosing to participate in iUP over anyone else buying an iPhone and AC+.
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 36 of 38
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    Soli said:
    nht said:
    Soli said:
    pbrutto said:
    This is all well and good to me (full disclosure, member of the program). BUT: if, like last year, I cannot even preorder one due to the upgrade program debacle.....what’s the point?
    pbrutto said:
    This is all well and good to me (full disclosure, member of the program). BUT: if, like last year, I cannot even preorder one due to the upgrade program debacle.....what’s the point?
    Upgrade Program participants should have their orders filled first, because their orders were placed 12-18-24 months earlier than customers placing one-time orders in September. Not only would that policy be fair, but it would also cause a LOT more people to join the Program. By reserving the first iPhone units for Program members, Apple would effectively be charging for an earlier place in line.
    You two sound entitled as fuck. You're using a program so you can pay less out of pocket up front. That's it! You don't deserve anything extra from Apple for buying on credit.
    Yes they do if they would otherwise be on a 2 to 3 year replacement cycle.  My wife is sporting my old iPhone 6 because the 2 year subsidy cycle ended.  Now instead of 2 new phones every two years it's one new phone in maybe 2-3 years.  Since she doesn't game the performance improvements don't typically matter.  She's really only missing out on camera improvements.

    If I'm paying a higher TCO for a 12 month replacement cycle as a benefit, I'd want it to be at the 12 month mark and not whenever they get around to it.  It's not "extra" as I'm paying more per month over holding my phone for a longer period.

    Using flawless gazelle trade in pricing (which will be somewhere between selling on craigslist vs just selling on gazelle) we see the following:

    A new iPhone 7+ 32GB today is $769 from Apple.
    Gazelle offers $310 for a flawless iPhone 7+ 32GB.

    Ownership TCO for 12 month upgrade is $459.  
    Under the upgrade it's $388.92 ($32.41/month)

    TCO for a 12 month ownership favors the upgrade program (32.41/mo vs $38.25/mo)

    Ownership TCO for 24 month upgrade is $769 - $160 (current 6s+ flawless price) or $609
    Under the upgrade it's $777 - $160 or $617

    TCO on a 24 month cycle is slightly favors straight out purchase.

    However, if we assume the residual value of the phone is $0 after three years (i.e. the iPhone 6+) the TCO per month is $21.36.  However the trade in value is $115 for Good (not flawless) condition...or $18.17 per month.

    Users are trending more toward a 3 year cycle.  Apple wants a 12 month replacement cycle.  They SHOULD prioritize users on the program vs folks like me replacing a 3+ year old phone.  I probably don't care if I have to wait a month. Folks on the program are paying a premium for a new phone every 12 months.

    But don't let logic or math get in the way of insulting others...

    You're logic is bullshit. I know people that signed up and having had a new iPhone in 2 years now, and I know people that pay out of pocket yet have a new iPhone every year. The program costs no more whether you whether you keep your iPhone for 6 months (minimum for the program), 1 year, 2 years, or 3 years. Not a single extra dime is paid to Apple for choosing to participate in iUP over anyone else buying an iPhone and AC+ so you can take you "I deserve to be first because I'm a better customer" crap and fuck off.
    U mad bro?

    Using 4 letter words every post doesn't make you look like a man.  It just makes you look silly.  Especially since I'm not claiming to be the "better customer" as much as the one that Apple likely want's to entice into being a "better customer".

    I reworked the math (so the logic was fine, it was the math that was bullshit) and the kicker is AppleCare+.  Apple wants the upgrade program to get folks to upgrade every 12 months and interest is covered by the profit on AppleCare+.  At the end of the day the $129 swing isn't worth it, especially since there's no real benefits to be on the upgrade program if I can afford to pay for the phone on Day 1.  Any hiccup in the payment plan and you get hit by finance charges so I'd rather just pay up front.  Which I can, I just choose not to...hence the iPhone 6 still being used.

    Since Visa covers up to 3 phones it's actually up to a $387 swing and coverage lasts more than 2 years but instead as long as I pay my phone bill using their card.

    TANSTAAFL.
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 37 of 38
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,032member
    nht said:
    Soli said:
    nht said:
    Soli said:
    pbrutto said:
    This is all well and good to me (full disclosure, member of the program). BUT: if, like last year, I cannot even preorder one due to the upgrade program debacle.....what’s the point?
    pbrutto said:
    This is all well and good to me (full disclosure, member of the program). BUT: if, like last year, I cannot even preorder one due to the upgrade program debacle.....what’s the point?
    Upgrade Program participants should have their orders filled first, because their orders were placed 12-18-24 months earlier than customers placing one-time orders in September. Not only would that policy be fair, but it would also cause a LOT more people to join the Program. By reserving the first iPhone units for Program members, Apple would effectively be charging for an earlier place in line.
    You two sound entitled as fuck. You're using a program so you can pay less out of pocket up front. That's it! You don't deserve anything extra from Apple for buying on credit.
    Yes they do if they would otherwise be on a 2 to 3 year replacement cycle.  My wife is sporting my old iPhone 6 because the 2 year subsidy cycle ended.  Now instead of 2 new phones every two years it's one new phone in maybe 2-3 years.  Since she doesn't game the performance improvements don't typically matter.  She's really only missing out on camera improvements.

    If I'm paying a higher TCO for a 12 month replacement cycle as a benefit, I'd want it to be at the 12 month mark and not whenever they get around to it.  It's not "extra" as I'm paying more per month over holding my phone for a longer period.

    Using flawless gazelle trade in pricing (which will be somewhere between selling on craigslist vs just selling on gazelle) we see the following:

    A new iPhone 7+ 32GB today is $769 from Apple.
    Gazelle offers $310 for a flawless iPhone 7+ 32GB.

    Ownership TCO for 12 month upgrade is $459.  
    Under the upgrade it's $388.92 ($32.41/month)

    TCO for a 12 month ownership favors the upgrade program (32.41/mo vs $38.25/mo)

    Ownership TCO for 24 month upgrade is $769 - $160 (current 6s+ flawless price) or $609
    Under the upgrade it's $777 - $160 or $617

    TCO on a 24 month cycle is slightly favors straight out purchase.

    However, if we assume the residual value of the phone is $0 after three years (i.e. the iPhone 6+) the TCO per month is $21.36.  However the trade in value is $115 for Good (not flawless) condition...or $18.17 per month.

    Users are trending more toward a 3 year cycle.  Apple wants a 12 month replacement cycle.  They SHOULD prioritize users on the program vs folks like me replacing a 3+ year old phone.  I probably don't care if I have to wait a month. Folks on the program are paying a premium for a new phone every 12 months.

    But don't let logic or math get in the way of insulting others...

    You're logic is bullshit. I know people that signed up and having had a new iPhone in 2 years now, and I know people that pay out of pocket yet have a new iPhone every year. The program costs no more whether you whether you keep your iPhone for 6 months (minimum for the program), 1 year, 2 years, or 3 years. Not a single extra dime is paid to Apple for choosing to participate in iUP over anyone else buying an iPhone and AC+ so you can take you "I deserve to be first because I'm a better customer" crap and fuck off.
    U mad bro?

    Using 4 letter words every post doesn't make you look like a man.  It just makes you look silly.  Especially since I'm not claiming to be the "better customer" as much as the one that Apple likely want's to entice into being a "better customer".

    I reworked the math (so the logic was fine, it was the math that was bullshit) and the kicker is AppleCare+.  Apple wants the upgrade program to get folks to upgrade every 12 months and interest is covered by the profit on AppleCare+.  At the end of the day the $129 swing isn't worth it, especially since there's no real benefits to be on the upgrade program if I can afford to pay for the phone on Day 1.  Any hiccup in the payment plan and you get hit by finance charges so I'd rather just pay up front.  Which I can, I just choose not to...hence the iPhone 6 still being used.

    Since Visa covers up to 3 phones it's actually up to a $387 swing and coverage lasts more than 2 years but instead as long as I pay my phone bill using their card.

    TANSTAAFL.
    1) There is no fucking interest.

    2) If you'd stop saying stupid shit I'd stop using "4 letter words."

    3) What's silly is referring to words as "4 letter words" instead of just saying the fucking word.

    4) Fucking is a 7 letter word. Bullshit is an 8 letter word.

    5)  If you're not one who wants AC+ then iUP makes no sense. For those of us that do get AC+ then iUP can be a convenience, but in no scenario are you any more special because you use iUP over those that pay cash up front.
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 38 of 38
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    Soli said:
    nht said:
    Soli said:
    nht said:
    Soli said:
    pbrutto said:
    This is all well and good to me (full disclosure, member of the program). BUT: if, like last year, I cannot even preorder one due to the upgrade program debacle.....what’s the point?
    pbrutto said:
    This is all well and good to me (full disclosure, member of the program). BUT: if, like last year, I cannot even preorder one due to the upgrade program debacle.....what’s the point?
    Upgrade Program participants should have their orders filled first, because their orders were placed 12-18-24 months earlier than customers placing one-time orders in September. Not only would that policy be fair, but it would also cause a LOT more people to join the Program. By reserving the first iPhone units for Program members, Apple would effectively be charging for an earlier place in line.
    You two sound entitled as fuck. You're using a program so you can pay less out of pocket up front. That's it! You don't deserve anything extra from Apple for buying on credit.
    Yes they do if they would otherwise be on a 2 to 3 year replacement cycle.  My wife is sporting my old iPhone 6 because the 2 year subsidy cycle ended.  Now instead of 2 new phones every two years it's one new phone in maybe 2-3 years.  Since she doesn't game the performance improvements don't typically matter.  She's really only missing out on camera improvements.

    If I'm paying a higher TCO for a 12 month replacement cycle as a benefit, I'd want it to be at the 12 month mark and not whenever they get around to it.  It's not "extra" as I'm paying more per month over holding my phone for a longer period.

    Using flawless gazelle trade in pricing (which will be somewhere between selling on craigslist vs just selling on gazelle) we see the following:

    A new iPhone 7+ 32GB today is $769 from Apple.
    Gazelle offers $310 for a flawless iPhone 7+ 32GB.

    Ownership TCO for 12 month upgrade is $459.  
    Under the upgrade it's $388.92 ($32.41/month)

    TCO for a 12 month ownership favors the upgrade program (32.41/mo vs $38.25/mo)

    Ownership TCO for 24 month upgrade is $769 - $160 (current 6s+ flawless price) or $609
    Under the upgrade it's $777 - $160 or $617

    TCO on a 24 month cycle is slightly favors straight out purchase.

    However, if we assume the residual value of the phone is $0 after three years (i.e. the iPhone 6+) the TCO per month is $21.36.  However the trade in value is $115 for Good (not flawless) condition...or $18.17 per month.

    Users are trending more toward a 3 year cycle.  Apple wants a 12 month replacement cycle.  They SHOULD prioritize users on the program vs folks like me replacing a 3+ year old phone.  I probably don't care if I have to wait a month. Folks on the program are paying a premium for a new phone every 12 months.

    But don't let logic or math get in the way of insulting others...

    You're logic is bullshit. I know people that signed up and having had a new iPhone in 2 years now, and I know people that pay out of pocket yet have a new iPhone every year. The program costs no more whether you whether you keep your iPhone for 6 months (minimum for the program), 1 year, 2 years, or 3 years. Not a single extra dime is paid to Apple for choosing to participate in iUP over anyone else buying an iPhone and AC+ so you can take you "I deserve to be first because I'm a better customer" crap and fuck off.
    U mad bro?

    Using 4 letter words every post doesn't make you look like a man.  It just makes you look silly.  Especially since I'm not claiming to be the "better customer" as much as the one that Apple likely want's to entice into being a "better customer".

    I reworked the math (so the logic was fine, it was the math that was bullshit) and the kicker is AppleCare+.  Apple wants the upgrade program to get folks to upgrade every 12 months and interest is covered by the profit on AppleCare+.  At the end of the day the $129 swing isn't worth it, especially since there's no real benefits to be on the upgrade program if I can afford to pay for the phone on Day 1.  Any hiccup in the payment plan and you get hit by finance charges so I'd rather just pay up front.  Which I can, I just choose not to...hence the iPhone 6 still being used.

    Since Visa covers up to 3 phones it's actually up to a $387 swing and coverage lasts more than 2 years but instead as long as I pay my phone bill using their card.

    TANSTAAFL.
    1) There is no fucking interest.

    2) If you'd stop saying stupid shit I'd stop using "4 letter words."

    3) What's silly is referring to words as "4 letter words" instead of just saying the fucking word.

    4) If you're not one who wants AC+ then iUP makes no sense. For those of us that do get AC+ then iUP can be a convenience, but in no scenario are you any more special because you use iUP over those that pay cash up front.
    1) Citizens One is not a charity.  Somebody is paying the interest and that someone is Apple unless you want to assert that Citizens One is only making money on folks that manage to miss a payment...the same folks that have decent to excellent credit ratings...

    2) Lol, I guess u mad.

    3) Because I choose to reserve cursing for the times it's warranted and not look silly by cursing over something like the AUP. 

    4) Folks in the AUP are "special" as they are more likely to be on a 1 year upgrade cycle.  Folks on a 1 year upgrade cycle are likely the least likely to need AppleCare+ even disregarding any Visa card benefits.  Folks that upgrade on a 1 year cycle should get preferential treatment...especially when paying for AppleCare+.  Even customers on a 2 year upgrade cycle should get some kind of preferential treatment.  Just like folks that sign a 2 year contract for mobile phones get a discount.
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