I don't like the Face ID idea not so much for security reasons, but the fact that my phone is often resting on a table and I press the home button to see the CLOCK, or if I missed any notification, or battery status etc... picking the phone up and putting it right in front of my face ( If it works 100%, failed on Fred in the Demo) just for these quick glances seem like a step backward to me... A glass back, if you want to protect it with a case... no wireless charging. I'm really on the fence with this 'upgrade'. I think it's just trying too hard to innovate, not sure Steve would have been proud.
The Senator asked "what safeguards has Apple built into the system to prevent nefarious actors from unlocking iPhone X by simply holding it up to an owner's face. "
This is a question I am asking as well. I would not purchase the phone without being satisfied that someone who mugs me or for that matter the police - could not hold the phone to my face and activate it. Without an absolute safeguard and perhaps even a kill password my company sure won't be using it. I am hoping Apple have this addressed and the Senator and the public will be satisfied that privacy is absolute.
1) Did you have similar fear-dreams about muggers forcing you to use touch id? or telling them the passcode? why not? how is this any different?
2) it’s already been discovered that ios 11 has a quick disable of all biometric authentication via rapid presses of the side button.
I don't like the Face ID idea not so much for security reasons, but the fact that my phone is often resting on a table and I press the home button to see the CLOCK, or if I missed any notification, or battery status etc... picking the phone up and putting it right in front of my face ( If it works 100%, failed on Fred in the Demo) just for these quick glances seem like a step backward to me... A glass back, if you want to protect it with a case... no wireless charging. I'm really on the fence with this 'upgrade'. I think it's just trying too hard to innovate, not sure Steve would have been proud.
How would face id prevent you from checking the time? it doesn’t auto load the home screen.
We don’t know why the demo unit asked for a passcode.
I don't like the Face ID idea not so much for security reasons, but the fact that my phone is often resting on a table and I press the home button to see the CLOCK, or if I missed any notification, or battery status etc... picking the phone up and putting it right in front of my face ( If it works 100%, failed on Fred in the Demo) just for these quick glances seem like a step backward to me... A glass back, if you want to protect it with a case... no wireless charging. I'm really on the fence with this 'upgrade'. I think it's just trying too hard to innovate, not sure Steve would have been proud.
I don't like the Face ID idea not so much for security reasons, but the fact that my phone is often resting on a table and I press the home button to see the CLOCK, or if I missed any notification, or battery status etc... picking the phone up and putting it right in front of my face ( If it works 100%, failed on Fred in the Demo) just for these quick glances seem like a step backward to me... A glass back, if you want to protect it with a case... no wireless charging. I'm really on the fence with this 'upgrade'. I think it's just trying too hard to innovate, not sure Steve would have been proud.
1) I think Steve would've been very proud considering what Apple has done to the handset market and changed the iPhone since its inception. The iPhone X is an exception, but only because it's even more innovative than every other iPhone that came before it. There's literally nothing on the market that has ever done what this phone does. Period.
2) If you think that Steve would be disappointed with the glass back or doesn't build devices around adding cases then you ignore a previous iPhone under Jobs and you have a very different view of Jobs than I do. Also, if you really want a case there's no reason why you can't get a case that allows for Qi charging since Qi is literally wireless, albeit a very short range, or a Qi-compatible case for iPhone, like there have been on the market for years.
Really you're just making up problems and perhaps trolling as even the iPhone 8 series is an excellent update over the previous year's model that there should be no "on the fence" about upgrading this year. Either you're upgrading or your not and the only "on the fence" discussion is to which model.
I don't like the Face ID idea not so much for security reasons, but the fact that my phone is often resting on a table and I press the home button to see the CLOCK, or if I missed any notification, or battery status etc... picking the phone up and putting it right in front of my face ( If it works 100%, failed on Fred in the Demo) just for these quick glances seem like a step backward to me... A glass back, if you want to protect it with a case... no wireless charging. I'm really on the fence with this 'upgrade'. I think it's just trying too hard to innovate, not sure Steve would have been proud.
How would face id prevent you from checking the time? it doesn’t auto load the home screen.
He must've missed the part where they clearly stated you touch the screen and demoed it a dozen times.
The thing with TouchID is that they don't know which finger you use. You get 5 tries, then it's passcode only. With a face, well, you've only got one face. (Politicians excepted.)
The thing with TouchID is that they don't know which finger you use. You get 5 tries, then it's passcode only. With a face, well, you've only got one face. (Politicians excepted.)
1) So that's a 50% chance even if you're randomly picking phalanges. I'm pretty sure I could get it within 5 tries. Do you know anyone that uses something besides the index or thumb? I've tried to use different digits and different pars of the finger and hand over the years because some are less likely to be left on surfaces, but I just go back to including just my right and left index fingers.
Posturing on high profile issues is how slimy politicians get attention. Railing on about the politician's ignorance of the matter is a waste of time, as the facts aren't why they are making a noise in the first place. It's all about getting attention. This particular specimen of the species is just a bit more well known for it.
He's always been a moron. Surprised he beat schumer to the punch. Good ol' chuck always seems to find the cameras.
This is a question I am asking as well. I would not purchase the phone without being satisfied that someone who mugs me or for that matter the police - could not hold the phone to my face and activate it. Without an absolute safeguard and perhaps even a kill password my company sure won't be using it. I am hoping Apple have this addressed and the Senator and the public will be satisfied that privacy is absolute.
At least the same way as with Touch ID, when you have to enter your code: - after your restart the device - more than 48h have passed last time you unlocked the device - add/delete a face (instead of a finger print) - change passcode - more than five unrecognized unlock attempts in a row. Accidental unlock attempts are even more likely with FaceID than TouchID... - biometric data doesn't leave the device and is stored in the secure enclave. ...and you do not have do use it to begin with if you do not like the convenience of it.
It is exactly the same deal at TouchID. But the "digital key" to unlock is now not the data from fingerprints but from a your face.
The thing is, it sounds insecure to us, because we see faces all day and recognize them easily...
But from a mathematical point of view a face is way more complex than a finger print. Finger prints are very simple, but unique. Face are very complex and unique as well, even between twins. It's not like the algorithm is just recognizing a face, it measures it in detail from a close up - and we will never know what exactly it measures and how the data points are used, same as with Touch ID. Oh and the hint that it cannot be fooled by makeup/prosthetic easily indicates that they actually look at they eyes as well and maybe measure subsurface reflection of light as well (once read a paper about this) as part of the equation.
Do not make the mistake of thinking that is the same as facial recognition where only a few parameter of the face are matched against a database. There is way more involved if you want to use a face as a key. Not the Samsung way, where they just slapped on some open source facial recognition library designed to recognize people in photos to say they were first and had a talking point.
And holding it up to your face against your will to the phone is the same deal as putting your finger on the button against your will. Not much difference forcing you too look at the screen compared to holding a finger onto the button. Yeah, and holding a gun to your head probably works for your pin code as well.
Really, same deal as before just different data source with more information to begin with (think longer password). If you were happy and felt secure enough with TouchID you should be with fine FaceID. Apple for sure tested it a ton and tweaked it or it would be a PR disaster. Everyone will be over this trying to show that it can be broken easily. Intelligence Agencies and people who sell hacks to them are first in line...
Can a face be created that fools FaceID? Of course, the same way TouchID can be fooled. The question is how much effort is required and how fast is is possible once you got hold of a device.
Will there be security holes in IOS11? Of course there will be. Once more fixed by updates. The idea of hacking a device is not to fake the identification but to circumvent it in the first place so the person never knows that the device was accessed by a 3rd party. That is what you need to worry about not if some of your work colleagues can easily read your private email when you forgot your phone on the desk when going to lunch. For such average security measures TouchID/FaceID are more than enough.
Also no one who mugs you for a phone cares about the data. It is sold for parts to repair phones (ever wondered where shops got all the parts from?). Times where phones where stolen and resold en masses like iPods on the next street corner are long over. Since years it is parts for cheap as they cannot easily reset it to factory defaults.
I would worry more about stuff like Equifax and the horrible security as people who handle your money or your personal information...
I don't like the Face ID idea not so much for security reasons, but the fact that my phone is often resting on a table and I press the home button to see the CLOCK, or if I missed any notification, or battery status etc... picking the phone up and putting it right in front of my face ( If it works 100%, failed on Fred in the Demo) just for these quick glances seem like a step backward to me... A glass back, if you want to protect it with a case... no wireless charging. I'm really on the fence with this 'upgrade'. I think it's just trying too hard to innovate, not sure Steve would have been proud.
Oh Lord it's that time of year again, when low-post iHaters and morons stroll through Apple sites.
1. Where in the keynote did Tim or anyone say "and we won't let you check the time or notifications without your face!!"
2. Who the hell is Fred? (Clueless iHater alert!)
3. ZERO iPhones malfunctioned during the event. This leads me to believe you're the typical iHater who parrots the Samsung-paid media.
I don't like the Face ID idea not so much for security reasons, but the fact that my phone is often resting on a table and I press the home button to see the CLOCK, or if I missed any notification, or battery status etc... picking the phone up and putting it right in front of my face ( If it works 100%, failed on Fred in the Demo) just for these quick glances seem like a step backward to me... A glass back, if you want to protect it with a case... no wireless charging. I'm really on the fence with this 'upgrade'. I think it's just trying too hard to innovate, not sure Steve would have been proud.
Who's Fred? Tap the phone while it's laying flat and it'll scan for FaceID. While it's doing that it'll show the lock screen, with the time and other info.
A case, unless it's metal, doesn't block wireless charging.
Comments
Should include a KILL facial expression that wipes your phone in dire situation, this would be my kill code:
2) it’s already been discovered that ios 11 has a quick disable of all biometric authentication via rapid presses of the side button.
We don’t know why the demo unit asked for a passcode.
2) If you think that Steve would be disappointed with the glass back or doesn't build devices around adding cases then you ignore a previous iPhone under Jobs and you have a very different view of Jobs than I do. Also, if you really want a case there's no reason why you can't get a case that allows for Qi charging since Qi is literally wireless, albeit a very short range, or a Qi-compatible case for iPhone, like there have been on the market for years.
Really you're just making up problems and perhaps trolling as even the iPhone 8 series is an excellent update over the previous year's model that there should be no "on the fence" about upgrading this year. Either you're upgrading or your not and the only "on the fence" discussion is to which model.
With a face, well, you've only got one face. (Politicians excepted.)
2) Can the courts compel you to open your eyes?
Did Franken have similar questions for True Sense (MSoft and Intel) and Samsung's similar offering?
- after your restart the device
- more than 48h have passed last time you unlocked the device
- add/delete a face (instead of a finger print)
- change passcode
- more than five unrecognized unlock attempts in a row. Accidental unlock attempts are even more likely with FaceID than TouchID...
- biometric data doesn't leave the device and is stored in the secure enclave.
...and you do not have do use it to begin with if you do not like the convenience of it.
It is exactly the same deal at TouchID. But the "digital key" to unlock is now not the data from fingerprints but from a your face.
The thing is, it sounds insecure to us, because we see faces all day and recognize them easily...
But from a mathematical point of view a face is way more complex than a finger print. Finger prints are very simple, but unique. Face are very complex and unique as well, even between twins. It's not like the algorithm is just recognizing a face, it measures it in detail from a close up - and we will never know what exactly it measures and how the data points are used, same as with Touch ID. Oh and the hint that it cannot be fooled by makeup/prosthetic easily indicates that they actually look at they eyes as well and maybe measure subsurface reflection of light as well (once read a paper about this) as part of the equation.
Do not make the mistake of thinking that is the same as facial recognition where only a few parameter of the face are matched against a database. There is way more involved if you want to use a face as a key. Not the Samsung way, where they just slapped on some open source facial recognition library designed to recognize people in photos to say they were first and had a talking point.
And holding it up to your face against your will to the phone is the same deal as putting your finger on the button against your will. Not much difference forcing you too look at the screen compared to holding a finger onto the button. Yeah, and holding a gun to your head probably works for your pin code as well.
Really, same deal as before just different data source with more information to begin with (think longer password). If you were happy and felt secure enough with TouchID you should be with fine FaceID. Apple for sure tested it a ton and tweaked it or it would be a PR disaster. Everyone will be over this trying to show that it can be broken easily. Intelligence Agencies and people who sell hacks to them are first in line...
Can a face be created that fools FaceID? Of course, the same way TouchID can be fooled. The question is how much effort is required and how fast is is possible once you got hold of a device.
Will there be security holes in IOS11? Of course there will be. Once more fixed by updates. The idea of hacking a device is not to fake the identification but to circumvent it in the first place so the person never knows that the device was accessed by a 3rd party. That is what you need to worry about not if some of your work colleagues can easily read your private email when you forgot your phone on the desk when going to lunch. For such average security measures TouchID/FaceID are more than enough.
Also no one who mugs you for a phone cares about the data. It is sold for parts to repair phones (ever wondered where shops got all the parts from?). Times where phones where stolen and resold en masses like iPods on the next street corner are long over. Since years it is parts for cheap as they cannot easily reset it to factory defaults.
I would worry more about stuff like Equifax and the horrible security as people who handle your money or your personal information...
"reply by October, Friday the 13th"
Straight out of a horror movie.
sure Al, we'll let you know how everything works so you won't use the technology for nefarious reasons.
Secure Enclave. How hard was it to watch the keynote or ask the colleague next to you who did?
Oh Lord it's that time of year again, when low-post iHaters and morons stroll through Apple sites.
1. Where in the keynote did Tim or anyone say "and we won't let you check the time or notifications without your face!!"
2. Who the hell is Fred? (Clueless iHater alert!)
3. ZERO iPhones malfunctioned during the event. This leads me to believe you're the typical iHater who parrots the Samsung-paid media.
moron.
A case, unless it's metal, doesn't block wireless charging.
Happy now?