Lots of technology gets developed in parallel, but isn't fully baked for delivery. I would expect that Apple will continue to develop Touch ID, and Touch ID in screen; whether they decide to incorporate in parallel with Face ID in the future is unknown.
Agreed. In this case, the rumor is that reliable, mass production of said technology (in-screen TouchID) is what prevented Apple from including TouchID on iPhone X. The convenience and security value is definitely there ... I suspect the impact on margins / "Does the consumer care enough?" will drive whether we see it or not.
Has anyone heard or discovered if multiple faces can be stored by Face ID? I know 5 fingerprints can be stored in TouchID allowing multiple users to access the same phone. Will Face ID have this capability?
If you don't understand why this is important for future products don't bother responding.
Hey Dan can I ask, level of security not with standing, do you really advocate a single form of authetification i.e face ID alone because that's some how the future even if face ID plus touch ID were possible ?
Or just editorial bitch slapping Sammy and cohorts, and youre fellow pundits, coz you know that's fun to write ( and read ) and what did you make of Craig's demo ?
My biggest query is when the phone is sitting on the desk, right now I just press with my finger and get a quick sense if any messages have arrived. With face ID I will either have to lean over or lift the phone, not optional. And, realize this is the true definition of a 1st world issue.
When I press my iPhone 6s screen nothing happens. I have to press the home button to get it to do anything. When I do that, TouchID takes over and unlocks the phone. If you use a finger that hasn't been encoded, it will bring up the screen and show notifications.
With FaceID, I imagine people will want to use a simple to complex stand to hold their phone in a position where a glance to the phone will be all that's needed to show notifications. The phone doesn't open unless you swipe up to finish the unlocking process. Apple has shown images showing the user's face being scanned from arm's length so I see the possibility of this scenario working. Just get a simple stand, with or without charger, and place it without an appropriate angle to your workspace so a quick glance will wake it up. No need to stretch to touch it like you do now.
If it ain't broke don't fix it? I am no fan of Facial ID. If I downgrade to an iPhone X then I'll have to revert to passcode only. As a motorcyclist I have my phone paired to the Bike's Audio System. Like a Handsfree setup in a car, an incoming call can be answered by the press of one button on the LH Handlebar controls. My Helmet has speakers and a microphone for Inter-bike intercomm so I can use my phone on the move. To make a call, I'll stop the bike take one glove off and either use the passcode or TouchID to get in the phone. Face ID is no use to me when on the move at all. I know this use case is a common one but it frustrates the hell out of me when Tech companies remove useful stuff that large numbers of their customer use in favour of something new and cool. Over the years, I have lost count of the number of times that I have had to battle against this very thing on the software products I worked on.
My biggest query is when the phone is sitting on the desk, right now I just press with my finger and get a quick sense if any messages have arrived. With face ID I will either have to lean over or lift the phone, not optional. And, realize this is the true definition of a 1st world issue.
Agreed. While this is 'first gen' Face ID, I often unlock my phone the same as you. The phone isn't always orthogonal to my face when I want to unlock and quickly check something. Sometimes at my desk, sometimes at hip level when I take it out of my pocket (or discretely surf during boring meetings). Hopefully the next gen will allow more flexibility.
Same arguments made about removing the headphone jack, or ports, or software features. One can always come up with arguments to poo-poo anything new. OMG, you might have to alter your routine! This must not happen!
But....what about women with burqas? Discriminatory!
/s
Let's look at this without being rude or sarcastic. Face ID increases its facial database the more it's used. Wearing anything over your face will cause issues the same way gloves made it impossible for TouchID to work. Women wearing any kind of clothing that covers most or all of their face will have issues with any kind of facial recognition software. It will be interesting to see how well Face ID works with these types of coverings. If it can see the eyes and any skin it might be able to build enough of a digital face to work. I'm sure Apple tried this out during development.
My biggest query is when the phone is sitting on the desk, right now I just press with my finger and get a quick sense if any messages have arrived. With face ID I will either have to lean over or lift the phone, not optional. And, realize this is the true definition of a 1st world issue.
You don't know that. I'm of the impression that if you can see the screen, it can see you.
Wow, talk about a defensive, brown-nosed article. What will you write this time next year when Apple 'triumphantly' reintroduce TouchID under the screen? Can't wait to find out!
Welcome, troll! Please find your Troll Trope Talking Points in the packet under your chair.
My biggest query is when the phone is sitting on the desk, right now I just press with my finger and get a quick sense if any messages have arrived. With face ID I will either have to lean over or lift the phone, not optional. And, realize this is the true definition of a 1st world issue.
Agreed. While this is 'first gen' Face ID, I often unlock my phone the same as you. The phone isn't always orthogonal to my face when I want to unlock and quickly check something. Sometimes at my desk, sometimes at hip level when I take it out of my pocket (or discretely surf during boring meetings). Hopefully the next gen will allow more flexibility.
Nope -- even unlocked, iOS reports notifications on lock screen (unless you've disabled this).
Multi biometrics is what's next. Not uniquely Touch ID of Face ID, but both. There is no reason Apple don't implement Face ID into the 8 series. The bezels offer a lot of space to embed a lot of sensors.
Not going to happen. That's just what those who fear change are clinging onto now. When Apple can get TrueDepth cheap enough to scale they will phase out Touch ID as you don't need both. You'll see. Then all this worry and panic will seem like a dream as it fades away....again.
When Samsung, HTC and others later tried to copy Apple's work, they introduced glaring security issues that did things like save an unencrypted photo of the user's fingerprints to the filesystem as world-readable (without setting any file permissions) so that any process could easily read and extract the data.
Interesting how you use the term "copy" with Samsung and HTC , but there is no mention on how Apple did the same with MS and Windows Hello, which has been part of the Surface since 2015.
Yeah, but the Surface isn't a phone. I imagine it's hard getting that kind of tech behind a laptop screen, but getting it to work on a phone...
I suppose it's hard, but technology moves always forward, and Apple had two years to improve and make it smaller. But still a copy of what MS did. There is a big chance that technology from PrimeSense, which Apple acquired a few years ago, is part of FaceID. And they are the same people who worked with Xbox Kinect. Could it be that patents from MS are part of FaceID? We don't know, but it's possible...
Unless Surface had the same exact sensors and technique as TrueDepth, then it doesn't sound like a copy to me. No more than Touch ID was a copy of previous fingerprint scanners that existed.
What happens if you injure your face, what if thieves cut your face off as they steal your phone, or what if you are the rare case of being born without a face?
Wow, talk about a defensive, brown-nosed article. What will you write this time next year when Apple 'triumphantly' reintroduce TouchID under the screen? Can't wait to find out!
I agree. I can't help but think Apple really wanted (and still intends) to embed TouchID under the screen. Just imagine the slide:
TouchID == 1 in 50,000 FaceID == 1 in 1,000,000 TouchID + FaceID == 1 in 50,000,000,000 "Apple is the first company to bring consumer 2-Factor, Biometric Authentication"
John Gruber of Daring Fireball has personal contact with Phil Schiller. Gruber says that isn't happening. I wouldn't bet against him.
My feeling is that paying in the supermarket with ApplePay will take longer and will be more cumbersome than before. The fact that I have to turn the iPhone so my face is straight to the camera takes time definitely more time than putting my finger on the home button. Despite the fact that a face recognition might be very fast, it will start a relevant delay. So I am still convinced that face recognition should have been an additional feature and that the touchID should not have been removed. I am even doubting that paying that Apple Pay + face recognition will be actually faster than a NFC enabled chip card with pin code
Yeah except for being untrue that's a nice pet theory. Did you watch the presentation? You just need to look at it, which you need to do to use the device anyway. There is no need to get weird about it and pose for the camera.
When Samsung, HTC and others later tried to copy Apple's work, they introduced glaring security issues that did things like save an unencrypted photo of the user's fingerprints to the filesystem as world-readable (without setting any file permissions) so that any process could easily read and extract the data.
Interesting how you use the term "copy" with Samsung and HTC , but there is no mention on how Apple did the same with MS and Windows Hello, which has been part of the Surface since 2015.
Yeah, but the Surface isn't a phone. I imagine it's hard getting that kind of tech behind a laptop screen, but getting it to work on a phone...
I suppose it's hard, but technology moves always forward, and Apple had two years to improve and make it smaller. But still a copy of what MS did. There is a big chance that technology from PrimeSense, which Apple acquired a few years ago, is part of FaceID. And they are the same people who worked with Xbox Kinect. Could it be that patents from MS are part of FaceID? We don't know, but it's possible...
It could be, and FaceID and Windows Hello seem very similar on the surface (that wasn't deliberate), but they do appear to approach the problem from different angles (again, not deliberate).
First thing that strikes me is that you need to be facing the camera almost dead-on (+/- 15 degrees) for Windows Hello to work.This would not work for a phone.
Windows Hello also needs multiple images (a picture of you with glasses, a picture of you without glasses, a plcture of you with hair swept forward etc).
It also needs for you to run through the setup process again if your appearance changes significantly (you grow a beard for example).
What this tells me is that Microsoft is matching data points on stored representation of the user, which cannot cope with minor changes (specs) or views from different angles.
The difference, I think, is that Microsoft is comparing fixed data to decide if it's you. Apple is applying AI to fixed data to work out if it's you.
I'm not convinced facial recognition is better than Touch ID. Apple apparently felt similarly as they went to a lot of (rumored) trouble to get under-display Touch ID working and only after that effort failed did they drop back and implement facial recognition. Touch ID is very convenient to use on a phone that is regularly activated when in multiple different positions, from facing straight on to quietly slipped out of one's pocket under a table at at meeting. Quoting from the article, "The user also has to attentively look at the device, making it far harder to surreptitiously unlock the phone of a passed-out person than Touch ID." However, that will also make it harder to surreptitiously unlock the device deliberately unless you are looking at it just right.
Nope.
- of course you're not convinced, you haven't even used it yet. dur
- You're attributing rumors of what Apple tried or didn't as fact
- Having to look *at* the device isn't at all the same as claiming you have to look at it "just right"
...until you've used it or read reviews from those that have, you're just dressing up fears as fake-facts.
Okay, looking at face id, it will be probably much better then anyone is willing to care for it. Here is the thing though, if you don't want it, then go for the iPhone 8, it has the touch id, and sure doesn't have the great new screen, but you also save $200, you have the choice.
Also, I feel the face ID would be amazing on the MacBooks, and probably iMac too. I doubt they will want to implement it on the iPad as people tend to hold those at more variable angles. I don't think this is the Touch ID replacement, like this article points, but the alternative, and eventually a future iPhone will include both for choice(like rumors pointed they wanted an under glass sensor that failed, but it might still work in the future).
Wow, talk about a defensive, brown-nosed article. What will you write this time next year when Apple 'triumphantly' reintroduce TouchID under the screen? Can't wait to find out!
I agree. I can't help but think Apple really wanted (and still intends) to embed TouchID under the screen. Just imagine the slide:
TouchID == 1 in 50,000 FaceID == 1 in 1,000,000 TouchID + FaceID == 1 in 50,000,000,000 "Apple is the first company to bring consumer 2-Factor, Biometric Authentication"
According to John Gruber Apple is all in on Face ID replacing Touch ID. I will be very surprised if they re-introduce Touch ID. At least not the way it exists today.
Stop spreading that. There is no information or whatsoever he got, he just transmits his divinations... There is no need to re-post AI's own titles here, everyone reads them...
Lesse, Gruber has well placed insider contacts, including excecs. He emails about baseball with Schiller and has had him on his show several times. So whose bet shall we take -- Gruber's, or anonymous nobodies like us on a rumors site? Hmm...
Has anyone heard or discovered if multiple faces can be stored by Face ID? I know 5 fingerprints can be stored in TouchID allowing multiple users to access the same phone. Will Face ID have this capability?
If you don't understand why this is important for future products don't bother responding.
I don't think so. Apple's thinking is that you have ten fingers, but you only have one face so...
If you want others to access your phone then they'll have to use the passcode I suppose.
This is why I stick with Apple. They are not afraid to push the envelope, cross the line, move to where the puck will be. Apple could have played it safe and put TouchID on the back like Samsung. Instead they went nipples to the wind, balls to the wall, dragging users kicking and screaming with them. Will Face ID succeed wildly or fail miserably? Since it's Apple I believe it will be the former. And why do the lurkers come crawling out with every DED article? Because he throws it in their faces, that's why, and all they can do is claim he's an Apple brown nose. Re-read the section titled "Touch ID panic: This all happened before" as this is the crux of the article. Techies are always guffawing about luddites and those unwilling to adapt to technology when it's they themselves that are the cowards when change arrives. OMG, Apple did something different! Well they had better keep all my favorite ports and features because I refuse to consider change!
Change for change sake isn't a good thing, there will always come a point wher further change serves only to degrade a user experience that has otherwise achieved perfection,
Yeah which is why Ive and the design team say the exact same thing all the time (much to the chagrin of those who claim the iPhone shell is now boring). Face ID isn't change for change's sake, it's for the sake of getting a smaller device with the same sized or bigger screen. As for the home screen gesture, we're only on v1 of this new design, I have no doubt that like all software it will continue to get better as we use the design more. Look at watchOS 4.
But I get it, we must be eternal skeptics of Apple and suggest things suck until begrudgingly realizing they don't.
Comments
If you don't understand why this is important for future products don't bother responding.
With FaceID, I imagine people will want to use a simple to complex stand to hold their phone in a position where a glance to the phone will be all that's needed to show notifications. The phone doesn't open unless you swipe up to finish the unlocking process. Apple has shown images showing the user's face being scanned from arm's length so I see the possibility of this scenario working. Just get a simple stand, with or without charger, and place it without an appropriate angle to your workspace so a quick glance will wake it up. No need to stretch to touch it like you do now.
If it ain't broke don't fix it?
I am no fan of Facial ID. If I downgrade to an iPhone X then I'll have to revert to passcode only.
As a motorcyclist I have my phone paired to the Bike's Audio System. Like a Handsfree setup in a car, an incoming call can be answered by the press of one button on the LH Handlebar controls. My Helmet has speakers and a microphone for Inter-bike intercomm so I can use my phone on the move.
To make a call, I'll stop the bike take one glove off and either use the passcode or TouchID to get in the phone.
Face ID is no use to me when on the move at all.
I know this use case is a common one but it frustrates the hell out of me when Tech companies remove useful stuff that large numbers of their customer use in favour of something new and cool.
Over the years, I have lost count of the number of times that I have had to battle against this very thing on the software products I worked on.
Let's look at this without being rude or sarcastic. Face ID increases its facial database the more it's used. Wearing anything over your face will cause issues the same way gloves made it impossible for TouchID to work. Women wearing any kind of clothing that covers most or all of their face will have issues with any kind of facial recognition software. It will be interesting to see how well Face ID works with these types of coverings. If it can see the eyes and any skin it might be able to build enough of a digital face to work. I'm sure Apple tried this out during development.
Welcome, troll! Please find your Troll Trope Talking Points in the packet under your chair.
Nope -- even unlocked, iOS reports notifications on lock screen (unless you've disabled this).
Not going to happen. That's just what those who fear change are clinging onto now. When Apple can get TrueDepth cheap enough to scale they will phase out Touch ID as you don't need both. You'll see. Then all this worry and panic will seem like a dream as it fades away....again.
Unless Surface had the same exact sensors and technique as TrueDepth, then it doesn't sound like a copy to me. No more than Touch ID was a copy of previous fingerprint scanners that existed.
Yeah except for being untrue that's a nice pet theory. Did you watch the presentation? You just need to look at it, which you need to do to use the device anyway. There is no need to get weird about it and pose for the camera.
It could be, and FaceID and Windows Hello seem very similar on the surface (that wasn't deliberate), but they do appear to approach the problem from different angles (again, not deliberate).
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/windows-hello-face-authentication
First thing that strikes me is that you need to be facing the camera almost dead-on (+/- 15 degrees) for Windows Hello to work.This would not work for a phone.
Windows Hello also needs multiple images (a picture of you with glasses, a picture of you without glasses, a plcture of you with hair swept forward etc).
It also needs for you to run through the setup process again if your appearance changes significantly (you grow a beard for example).
What this tells me is that Microsoft is matching data points on stored representation of the user, which cannot cope with minor changes (specs) or views from different angles.
The difference, I think, is that Microsoft is comparing fixed data to decide if it's you.
Apple is applying AI to fixed data to work out if it's you.
I think the systems are quite different.
Nope.
- of course you're not convinced, you haven't even used it yet. dur
- You're attributing rumors of what Apple tried or didn't as fact
- Having to look *at* the device isn't at all the same as claiming you have to look at it "just right"
...until you've used it or read reviews from those that have, you're just dressing up fears as fake-facts.
Also, I feel the face ID would be amazing on the MacBooks, and probably iMac too. I doubt they will want to implement it on the iPad as people tend to hold those at more variable angles. I don't think this is the Touch ID replacement, like this article points, but the alternative, and eventually a future iPhone will include both for choice(like rumors pointed they wanted an under glass sensor that failed, but it might still work in the future).
Lesse, Gruber has well placed insider contacts, including excecs. He emails about baseball with Schiller and has had him on his show several times. So whose bet shall we take -- Gruber's, or anonymous nobodies like us on a rumors site? Hmm...
I don't think so. Apple's thinking is that you have ten fingers, but you only have one face so...
If you want others to access your phone then they'll have to use the passcode I suppose.
But I get it, we must be eternal skeptics of Apple and suggest things suck until begrudgingly realizing they don't.