Gripping buttons on both sides of iPhone X disables Face ID, recognition works with most s...

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  • Reply 20 of 37
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 1,740member
    78Bandit said:
    So now I can disable face recognition every time I want to adjust the volume, put the phone to sleep, shift the phone from one ear to the other, or even just grab it from my pocket.  I hit the power and volume buttons together all the time.  They need to move the power button back to the top or at least make it where they aren't directly opposite each other.
    Oh for christ's sake. 

    Get ready to produce a lot of screenshots.
    Actually, yes - that's my concern to. I routinely adjust the volume on my 6s when I'm trying to turn it off. The design has the power and volume buttons perfectly under your thumb and forefinger when you hold the phone, so it is very easy to press both at the same time. I found that having power button on the top was a much better location. I actually wonder if Federighi accidentally pressed both buttons on stage. Supposedly iOS 11 has you confirm before a screen shot is saved, so at least I won't be filling up the memory on my phone. IT's still a PITA, though.

    It's cool that it will unlock with sunglasses - not sure if that was an intentional design decision on Apple's part or a serendipitous discovery after they implemented the IR sensors, but either way it dramatically increases the usefulness of the facial recognition and reduces the cases where it won't work.

    As far as the theft question goes, that's why you have Find my iPhone - so you can remotely lock a device.

  • Reply 22 of 37
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,790member
    I love the the way that FaceID reckons Craig's hair is part of his face. 
  • Reply 23 of 37
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,790member
    rob53 said:
    The comments about it not working on women who cover their face might have been answered. Since it uses IR and not visible light, the sensors might be able to pierce through the veil since many aren't made of solid fabric, allowing Face ID to work. I believe most of these women are allowed to uncover their faces in private or around other women so they could program their iPhones in private and they might work in public. 

    With this in mind, I don't see Face ID actually working with dark sunglasses. Anyone test that?


    These women would like a word with you, Craig Federighi...
    They would have to have had a word several years ago because TouchID would still require them to uncover their hands. 
  • Reply 24 of 37
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,790member

    mac_128 said:
    mac_128 said:

    But a pick pocket actually could point your phone at your face and run away with it unlocked ... if a person didn't know their phone had been lifted, and turned to look at someone yelling "hey you", only to find themselves looking at their iPhone held to their face, the thief could run off before the person even knew what was happening or that they had just unlocked their own iPhone for a thief they barely had time to notice.
    That is such an absurd edge case it's not even worth mentioning. It will likely never, ever happen, not even once. Have you ever been pick-pocketed? Do you know anyone who has had their iPhone pick-pocketed? Did the pretend pick pocket then take time to analyze the device to see what brand it is, then which model it was, and then -- rather than make haste -- interact with the pretend victim? No, no, no, and no. 

    This kind of fiction is best left to bad television.
    You probably would see something like that on TruTV. 
    The reality is, a friend of mine arrived in Paris, and stopped at a counter to buy a SIM card for her brand new phone. After confirming it was working, she put the phone in her backpack, and then got on the metro. Only when she arrived at her destination in Paris, did she realize she did not have her phone. Her backpack phone pocket was unzipped. Second guessing herself, she went back to the airport to see if she'd left it at the counter. When she explained what happened, they suggested she was pick pocketed on the train, the only place where she was jammed in with other people and getting pushed and shoved. Sure enough, they ran the security footage, and there was a guy watching the counter who followed her when she left after knowing exactly what kind of phone she had, and exactly where in the backpack she put it. It was clean and surgical. 

    Granted, the idea of the thief then shouting for her attention to unlock the phone, just as the doors were about to close so she couldn't follow is a bit extreme, but it's not impossible. 

    Again, that's no more absurd than the idea that a customer would not open their eyes to allow the phone to be unlocked during a holdup, or defeat the biometrics with a key press when "handing it over". It's absurd to even suggest a person in that situation would do either of those things, or anything else other than comply with the instructions of the robber. On the other hand, the question posed by the reporter is just as unlikely. Also foolish to ask. I find the fact that Apple was ready for such a question equally as disturbing. If anyone is being help up by a criminal with the opportunity to demand  valuables, much less unlock an iPhone, then the correct procedure is 100% compliance, not some sly theatrics Apple contrived for just such an occasion.
    First, and I know this because I travel in the third-world, wear that backpack on your front when negotiating crowded spaces.  Regarding iPhone theft with the option of surreptitious unlocking, I guess it's not much different than having a wallet containing your passport and social security card and credit cards stolen.  At least the iPhone comes with security, which might NOT get compromised during a pick-pocketing incident.  Not true for the wallet.
    Exactly.
    edited September 2017
  • Reply 25 of 37
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,790member
    I've got one!

    Okay, how 'bout this, Craig!

    I'm at the checkout, and I do the FaceID, and just as I 'm about to tap the NFC terminal, a nefarious actor



    snatches my phone, uses it to pay for his weekly groceries, and runs off!

    What if he removes my face and takes it with him! He'll have complete, unfettered access to my phone forever more, and I'll have no face!

    Jeez Craig, do you Apple people ever think these things through logically??

    edited September 2017 kingofsomewherehot
  • Reply 26 of 37
    Rayz2016 said:
    I've got one!

    Okay, how 'bout this, Craig!

    I'm at the checkout, and I do the FaceID, and just as I 'm about to tap the NFC terminal, a nefarious actor



    snatches my phone, uses it to pay for his weekly groceries, and runs off!

    What if he removes my face and takes it with him! He'll have complete, unfettered access to my phone forever more, and I'll have no face!

    Jeez Craig, do you Apple people ever think these things through logically??

    Well, I don't know if you've ever used Apple Pay but (with the current Touch ID iPhones) it requires you to save a fingerprint to be able to use it, but in the iPhone X's case, a face. Assuming Face ID has the same setup process as Touch ID, it is always required to type in your passcode to get into the setting to even delete the saved face and even if this nefarious actor did know your passcode, Apple Pay won't be able to work because there is no saved face, something that has always been required (albeit a fingerprint) since the launch of Apple Pay. Then again, if someone did steal something as important as access to my cards, I would immediately deactivate it.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 37
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,453member
    mac_128 said:
    mac_128 said:

    But a pick pocket actually could point your phone at your face and run away with it unlocked ... if a person didn't know their phone had been lifted, and turned to look at someone yelling "hey you", only to find themselves looking at their iPhone held to their face, the thief could run off before the person even knew what was happening or that they had just unlocked their own iPhone for a thief they barely had time to notice.
    That is such an absurd edge case it's not even worth mentioning. It will likely never, ever happen, not even once. Have you ever been pick-pocketed? Do you know anyone who has had their iPhone pick-pocketed? Did the pretend pick pocket then take time to analyze the device to see what brand it is, then which model it was, and then -- rather than make haste -- interact with the pretend victim? No, no, no, and no. 

    This kind of fiction is best left to bad television.
    You probably would see something like that on TruTV. 
    The reality is, a friend of mine arrived in Paris, and stopped at a counter to buy a SIM card for her brand new phone. After confirming it was working, she put the phone in her backpack, and then got on the metro. Only when she arrived at her destination in Paris, did she realize she did not have her phone. Her backpack phone pocket was unzipped. Second guessing herself, she went back to the airport to see if she'd left it at the counter. When she explained what happened, they suggested she was pick pocketed on the train, the only place where she was jammed in with other people and getting pushed and shoved. Sure enough, they ran the security footage, and there was a guy watching the counter who followed her when she left after knowing exactly what kind of phone she had, and exactly where in the backpack she put it. It was clean and surgical. 

    Granted, the idea of the thief then shouting for her attention to unlock the phone, just as the doors were about to close so she couldn't follow is a bit extreme, but it's not impossible. 

    Again, that's no more absurd than the idea that a customer would not open their eyes to allow the phone to be unlocked during a holdup, or defeat the biometrics with a key press when "handing it over". It's absurd to even suggest a person in that situation would do either of those things, or anything else other than comply with the instructions of the robber. On the other hand, the question posed by the reporter is just as unlikely. Also foolish to ask. I find the fact that Apple was ready for such a question equally as disturbing. If anyone is being help up by a criminal with the opportunity to demand  valuables, much less unlock an iPhone, then the correct procedure is 100% compliance, not some sly theatrics Apple contrived for just such an occasion.
    First, and I know this because I travel in the third-world, wear that backpack on your front when negotiating crowded spaces.  Regarding iPhone theft with the option of surreptitious unlocking, I guess it's not much different than having a wallet containing your passport and social security card and credit cards stolen.  At least the iPhone comes with security, which might NOT get compromised during a pick-pocketing incident.  Not true for the wallet.
    Right. That was a wake up call for her, also a veteran of traveling in the third world. She wasn't expecting that in Paris. While I was on the Barcelona metro, her experience resonated in my mind. It all seems so civilized, and yet ...

    That said, you're correct. That's why I say Apple really shouldn't be playing this game with reporters asking foolish questions. Sure tell us about the extra security features, but don't allow the reporters to frame it in a way that gives bad advice -- if someone holds you up, give them whatever they want, don't play sly games with the technology. You're absolutely correct, Apples ultimate answer is that the phone can be easily wiped, and there's not much else that can be done with it, other than steal personal information even if it's unlocked. My phone is set to auto lock after 1 minute, so even if a thief gets your phone unlocked, they may not even be able to do anything about it before it locks again. But Federighi played along with unrealistic scenarios, and offered bad solutions to them. I'm actually not even sure why I would ever even want to disable FaceID -- probably more to do with law enforcement requests than thieves. So now here we are ...
  • Reply 28 of 37
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,790member
    Anilu_777 said:
    Quickly disabling the Face ID is a great idea. If I'm out on the town I don't want someone to steal my iPhone and be able to use it. I assume Siri can still call a taxi lol. 
    If FaceID was enabled, they still wouldn't be able to use it. That's kinda the point. 
  • Reply 29 of 37
    Bagon379 said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    I've got one!

    Okay, how 'bout this, Craig!

    I'm at the checkout, and I do the FaceID, and just as I 'm about to tap the NFC terminal, a nefarious actor



    snatches my phone, uses it to pay for his weekly groceries, and runs off!

    What if he removes my face and takes it with him! He'll have complete, unfettered access to my phone forever more, and I'll have no face!

    Jeez Craig, do you Apple people ever think these things through logically??

    Well, I don't know if you've ever used Apple Pay but (with the current Touch ID iPhones) it requires you to save a fingerprint to be able to use it, but in the iPhone X's case, a face. Assuming Face ID has the same setup process as Touch ID, it is always required to type in your passcode to get into the setting to even delete the saved face and even if this nefarious actor did know your passcode, Apple Pay won't be able to work because there is no saved face, something that has always been required (albeit a fingerprint) since the launch of Apple Pay. Then again, if someone did steal something as important as access to my cards, I would immediately deactivate it.
    I think it was a joke. Thanks for the laugh though.
  • Reply 30 of 37
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,453member
    Rayz2016 said:
    mac_128 said:
    Seems like a reckless move ... if the thief knows enough about what he's stealing to point it at your face, I think doing anything to thwart their ability to unlock your phone is bad advice.

    But a pick pocket actually could point your phone at your face and run away with it unlocked ... if a person didn't know their phone had been lifted, and turned to look at someone yelling "hey you", only to find themselves looking at their iPhone held to their face, the thief could run off before the person even knew what was happening or that they had just unlocked their own iPhone for a thief they barely had time to notice.


    I think the main problem with this scenario is that it doesn't take into account how pickpockets operate. 

    To begin with, pickpockets are opportunists. They are interested in the device, not your personal data. Secondly, the idea that a pickpocket will draw attention to themselves by shouting "hey you" after they've just committed a crime is beyond laughable. How is that going to work on a crowded train? On a crowded street where most pickpockets operate? 

    But let's assume you are right, and pickpockets all over the world are happy to draw attention to themselves and encourage their victims to get a good look at them before they run off. (Don't forget that you're techno pickpocket will need a moment to check the phone to make sure it has unlocked, and then maybe another moment to ask the victim if they could try again) If this becomes a problem, then Apple will simply add optional face locking  to Contacts, Calendar and Safari. The wallet is already safe (unless the techno pickpocket decides to flip to the wallet and shout "hey you" for a third time), so are the banking apps. In fact most apps that hold personal data already support locking, so if your scenario does happen (and I have to say, I'm somewhat sceptical) then the real danger is someone getting access to your game scores. 

    Sales of 1Password will go through the roof. 


    Thanks for the insider info. And how long have you been a pick pocket?

    There are evidently all kinds of opportunists. I just saw on the news this morning a ring of cell phone thieves who approach people and ask to borrow their cell phone for some emergency or other and then run and jump into a waiting vehicle and speed off. Some idiot guy chased them on the security video and tried to stop them, being drug along the street and ultimately falling out. I saw another news story last week about a ring of pick pockets that stop unsuspecting people on the street, telling them they have bird poop on them, and offer to clean them up while they pick their pockets. All easily identified.

    ultimately this isn't about some random scenario, but whether Federighi should have even dignified the question. That said, he offered dangerous solutions to a problem that isn't even really a problem, since ultimately the iPhone can be wiped and bricked. Especially if the user KNOWS his phone has been stolen. 

    But as I've pointed out, there's no one way thieves and pickpockets work. In my scenario, a discreet tap on the shoulder works just as well, as shouting "hey you". And as I mentioned before, the thief knows the train and it's stops, the unsuspecting tourist doesn't. So the tap on the shoulder comes just before the doors close, victim looks, phones unlocked and guy is out the door as it closes. Victim can't do anything, and didn't get a good look at anything other than a phone in their face. And nobody else on the subway was paying attention.

    And you want to know about a crowded street? How about this experience in Venice CA. My friend and I are sitting on a busy street corner outside a Starbucks having coffee. Her phone is laying on the table in front of her. A guy approaches her and asks for directions. As she's giving them, a guy on a skateboard sails by and grabs her phone off the table. Neither of us were sure what had happened. When we came back to reality, the guy she was giving directions to was suddenly gone, I ran around the corner after the skateboarder, but didn't see him. Neither of us could remember what the guy she was giving directions to, neither of us got a good look at the skateboarder, even though I remember noticing the guy coming down the sidewalk, because I hate boarders who ride the crowded sidewalk. Nobody around us noticed either guy, and unlike the airport, no surveilance video. Now take that one step further ... Two guys clearly working together. Now they hand it off to a third guy, who follows her to her car where they're alone, holds up the phone and says "excuse me miss, is this your phone" she turns, sees just the phone, it unlocks, and he turns and jumps on his skateboard before she knows what happened, and boom, dissapears into the crowd again.

    But again, the point here really isn't can a credible scenario be created to demonstrate how 
    Federighi's solution can be defeated easily, but rather there's a reason to. And that's what he should have focused on. If someone stole my phone, there's little personal info they could glean on it. That's not necessarily true for some other people, but in general, there not much a their could do with an unlocked iPhone -- so why did Federighi even make it an issue?
  • Reply 31 of 37
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,790member
    Bagon379 said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    I've got one!

    Okay, how 'bout this, Craig!

    I'm at the checkout, and I do the FaceID, and just as I 'm about to tap the NFC terminal, a nefarious actor



    snatches my phone, uses it to pay for his weekly groceries, and runs off!

    What if he removes my face and takes it with him! He'll have complete, unfettered access to my phone forever more, and I'll have no face!

    Jeez Craig, do you Apple people ever think these things through logically??

    Well, I don't know if you've ever used Apple Pay but (with the current Touch ID iPhones) it requires you to save a fingerprint to be able to use it, but in the iPhone X's case, a face. Assuming Face ID has the same setup process as Touch ID, it is always required to type in your passcode to get into the setting to even delete the saved face and even if this nefarious actor did know your passcode, Apple Pay won't be able to work because there is no saved face, something that has always been required (albeit a fingerprint) since the launch of Apple Pay. Then again, if someone did steal something as important as access to my cards, I would immediately deactivate it.
    Actually, that's very true. At some point, the nefarious actor is going to need a passcode. 
  • Reply 32 of 37
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,790member
    mac_128 said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    mac_128 said:
    Seems like a reckless move ... if the thief knows enough about what he's stealing to point it at your face, I think doing anything to thwart their ability to unlock your phone is bad advice.

    But a pick pocket actually could point your phone at your face and run away with it unlocked ... if a person didn't know their phone had been lifted, and turned to look at someone yelling "hey you", only to find themselves looking at their iPhone held to their face, the thief could run off before the person even knew what was happening or that they had just unlocked their own iPhone for a thief they barely had time to notice.


    I think the main problem with this scenario is that it doesn't take into account how pickpockets operate. 

    To begin with, pickpockets are opportunists. They are interested in the device, not your personal data. Secondly, the idea that a pickpocket will draw attention to themselves by shouting "hey you" after they've just committed a crime is beyond laughable. How is that going to work on a crowded train? On a crowded street where most pickpockets operate? 

    But let's assume you are right, and pickpockets all over the world are happy to draw attention to themselves and encourage their victims to get a good look at them before they run off. (Don't forget that you're techno pickpocket will need a moment to check the phone to make sure it has unlocked, and then maybe another moment to ask the victim if they could try again) If this becomes a problem, then Apple will simply add optional face locking  to Contacts, Calendar and Safari. The wallet is already safe (unless the techno pickpocket decides to flip to the wallet and shout "hey you" for a third time), so are the banking apps. In fact most apps that hold personal data already support locking, so if your scenario does happen (and I have to say, I'm somewhat sceptical) then the real danger is someone getting access to your game scores. 

    Sales of 1Password will go through the roof. 


    Thanks for the insider info. And how long have you been a pick pocket?

    There are evidently all kinds of opportunists. I just saw on the news this morning a ring of cell phone thieves who approach people and ask to borrow their cell phone for some emergency or other and then run and jump into a waiting vehicle and speed off. Some idiot guy chased them on the security video and tried to stop them, being drug along the street and ultimately falling out. I saw another news story last week about a ring of pick pockets that stop unsuspecting people on the street, telling them they have bird poop on them, and offer to clean them up while they pick their pockets. All easily identified.

    ultimately this isn't about some random scenario, but whether Federighi should have even dignified the question. That said, he offered dangerous solutions to a problem that isn't even really a problem, since ultimately the iPhone can be wiped and bricked. Especially if the user KNOWS his phone has been stolen. 

    But as I've pointed out, there's no one way thieves and pickpockets work. In my scenario, a discreet tap on the shoulder works just as well, as shouting "hey you". And as I mentioned before, the thief knows the train and it's stops, the unsuspecting tourist doesn't. So the tap on the shoulder comes just before the doors close, victim looks, phones unlocked and guy is out the door as it closes. Victim can't do anything, and didn't get a good look at anything other than a phone in their face. And nobody else on the subway was paying attention.

    And you want to know about a crowded street? How about this experience in Venice CA. My friend and I are sitting on a busy street corner outside a Starbucks having coffee. Her phone is laying on the table in front of her. A guy approaches her and asks for directions. As she's giving them, a guy on a skateboard sails by and grabs her phone off the table. Neither of us were sure what had happened. When we came back to reality, the guy she was giving directions to was suddenly gone, I ran around the corner after the skateboarder, but didn't see him. Neither of us could remember what the guy she was giving directions to, neither of us got a good look at the skateboarder, even though I remember noticing the guy coming down the sidewalk, because I hate boarders who ride the crowded sidewalk. Nobody around us noticed either guy, and unlike the airport, no surveilance video. Now take that one step further ... Two guys clearly working together. Now they hand it off to a third guy, who follows her to her car where they're alone, holds up the phone and says "excuse me miss, is this your phone" she turns, sees just the phone, it unlocks, and he turns and jumps on his skateboard before she knows what happened, and boom, dissapears into the crowd again.

    But again, the point here really isn't can a credible scenario be created to demonstrate how Federighi's solution can be defeated easily, but rather there's a reason to. And that's what he should have focused on. If someone stole my phone, there's little personal info they could glean on it. That's not necessarily true for some other people, but in general, there not much a their could do with an unlocked iPhone -- so why did Federighi even make it an issue?
    I have a suggestion. Next time you up with a scenario, read it out loud to yourself before you post. The leaving at speed set up gives even less time to tap shoulders, shout out, or whatever else your case-study thief will do to get a picture before racing off. 

    And during these operations of following the owner to get a face shot, the gang will have to make sure that no one else looks at the phone (including them) and that it doesn't try to face shot anyone else during the operation. They have two tries, and the chances are they will use up one or both while grabbing the phone.

    As you say it isn't a credible scenario, but you're the one who keeps coming up with them. 

    Oh, and Craig's advice is sound. If he said to the press "How the hell would that work in any reality?" then he'd simply be accused of being evasive. 
    edited September 2017
  • Reply 33 of 37
    I find emotional recognition capability... on my phone... to be really scary. I don't want the unscrupulous to take advantage of people's emotional states. 

    https://nordicapis.com/20-emotion-recognition-apis-that-will-leave-you-impressed-and-concerned/


  • Reply 34 of 37
    mac_128 said:
    Right. That was a wake up call for her, also a veteran of traveling in the third world. She wasn't expecting that in Paris. While I was on the Barcelona metro, her experience resonated in my mind. It all seems so civilized, and yet ...

    Um, I'm sorry for her situation, but she wasn't aware that picking pockets has been woven into the fabric of Parisian life since at least the end of WWII? So much so that it's considered an industry, not a hobby. These guys are expert level, with complex money and device laundering mechanisms--so whatever they take you'll never see again.
  • Reply 35 of 37
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,453member
    Rayz2016 said:
    mac_128 said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    mac_128 said:
    Seems like a reckless move ... if the thief knows enough about what he's stealing to point it at your face, I think doing anything to thwart their ability to unlock your phone is bad advice.

    But a pick pocket actually could point your phone at your face and run away with it unlocked ... if a person didn't know their phone had been lifted, and turned to look at someone yelling "hey you", only to find themselves looking at their iPhone held to their face, the thief could run off before the person even knew what was happening or that they had just unlocked their own iPhone for a thief they barely had time to notice.


    I think the main problem with this scenario is that it doesn't take into account how pickpockets operate. 

    To begin with, pickpockets are opportunists. They are interested in the device, not your personal data. Secondly, the idea that a pickpocket will draw attention to themselves by shouting "hey you" after they've just committed a crime is beyond laughable. How is that going to work on a crowded train? On a crowded street where most pickpockets operate? 

    But let's assume you are right, and pickpockets all over the world are happy to draw attention to themselves and encourage their victims to get a good look at them before they run off. (Don't forget that you're techno pickpocket will need a moment to check the phone to make sure it has unlocked, and then maybe another moment to ask the victim if they could try again) If this becomes a problem, then Apple will simply add optional face locking  to Contacts, Calendar and Safari. The wallet is already safe (unless the techno pickpocket decides to flip to the wallet and shout "hey you" for a third time), so are the banking apps. In fact most apps that hold personal data already support locking, so if your scenario does happen (and I have to say, I'm somewhat sceptical) then the real danger is someone getting access to your game scores. 

    Sales of 1Password will go through the roof. 


    Thanks for the insider info. And how long have you been a pick pocket?

    There are evidently all kinds of opportunists. I just saw on the news this morning a ring of cell phone thieves who approach people and ask to borrow their cell phone for some emergency or other and then run and jump into a waiting vehicle and speed off. Some idiot guy chased them on the security video and tried to stop them, being drug along the street and ultimately falling out. I saw another news story last week about a ring of pick pockets that stop unsuspecting people on the street, telling them they have bird poop on them, and offer to clean them up while they pick their pockets. All easily identified.

    ultimately this isn't about some random scenario, but whether Federighi should have even dignified the question. That said, he offered dangerous solutions to a problem that isn't even really a problem, since ultimately the iPhone can be wiped and bricked. Especially if the user KNOWS his phone has been stolen. 

    But as I've pointed out, there's no one way thieves and pickpockets work. In my scenario, a discreet tap on the shoulder works just as well, as shouting "hey you". And as I mentioned before, the thief knows the train and it's stops, the unsuspecting tourist doesn't. So the tap on the shoulder comes just before the doors close, victim looks, phones unlocked and guy is out the door as it closes. Victim can't do anything, and didn't get a good look at anything other than a phone in their face. And nobody else on the subway was paying attention.

    And you want to know about a crowded street? How about this experience in Venice CA. My friend and I are sitting on a busy street corner outside a Starbucks having coffee. Her phone is laying on the table in front of her. A guy approaches her and asks for directions. As she's giving them, a guy on a skateboard sails by and grabs her phone off the table. Neither of us were sure what had happened. When we came back to reality, the guy she was giving directions to was suddenly gone, I ran around the corner after the skateboarder, but didn't see him. Neither of us could remember what the guy she was giving directions to, neither of us got a good look at the skateboarder, even though I remember noticing the guy coming down the sidewalk, because I hate boarders who ride the crowded sidewalk. Nobody around us noticed either guy, and unlike the airport, no surveilance video. Now take that one step further ... Two guys clearly working together. Now they hand it off to a third guy, who follows her to her car where they're alone, holds up the phone and says "excuse me miss, is this your phone" she turns, sees just the phone, it unlocks, and he turns and jumps on his skateboard before she knows what happened, and boom, dissapears into the crowd again.

    But again, the point here really isn't can a credible scenario be created to demonstrate how Federighi's solution can be defeated easily, but rather there's a reason to. And that's what he should have focused on. If someone stole my phone, there's little personal info they could glean on it. That's not necessarily true for some other people, but in general, there not much a their could do with an unlocked iPhone -- so why did Federighi even make it an issue?
    I have a suggestion. Next time you up with a scenario, read it out loud to yourself before you post. The leaving at speed set up gives even less time to tap shoulders, shout out, or whatever else your case-study thief will do to get a picture before racing off. 

    And during these operations of following the owner to get a face shot, the gang will have to make sure that no one else looks at the phone (including them) and that it doesn't try to face shot anyone else during the operation. They have two tries, and the chances are they will use up one or both while grabbing the phone.

    As you say it isn't a credible scenario, but you're the one who keeps coming up with them. 

    Oh, and Craig's advice is sound. If he said to the press "How the hell would that work in any reality?" then he'd simply be accused of being evasive. 
    And welcome to my block list. ;-)
  • Reply 36 of 37
    adybadyb Posts: 184member
    My biggest concern was would it work with sunglasses/reactions lenses so I'm rather pleased to hear that it should!
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