Meh, you can break into most houses in 30 seconds by popping a window lock.
Grab the alarm and stick in freezer to quiet it. if there's an external siren or something that's annoying then just leave.
Grab jewelry and cash from master bedroom and do a quick sweep in less than 5 mins.
Leave before any response is going to happen.
Having been on the receiving end of this kind of B&E and talking to the police a lot of what folks think makes their house "safe" doesn't. I keep the alarm system still for night time use. I arm it during the day but it's just a minor annoyance for anyone semi-competent.
These things are probability issues. A determined burglar can do all the things you mention, but given the option of going someplace that looks less secure, most will choose that. That's why you go ahead and lock your car doors and don't leave a purse in the front seat. Most people with nefarious intent are just looking for the right opportunity. If you define "safe" as "impervious," you may be disappointed. If you define "safe" as "less likely to be burgled," you can indeed do things that will improve your chances. One of those is probably going to be not employing a system that allows fully automated access to your home.
How are cameras in any way going to increase your chances of being burgled?
Not the camera. The door lock automatically opening for the delivery person. Access to the premises adds a vulnerability not present otherwise.
Meh, you can break into most houses in 30 seconds by popping a window lock.
Grab the alarm and stick in freezer to quiet it. if there's an external siren or something that's annoying then just leave.
Grab jewelry and cash from master bedroom and do a quick sweep in less than 5 mins.
Leave before any response is going to happen.
Having been on the receiving end of this kind of B&E and talking to the police a lot of what folks think makes their house "safe" doesn't. I keep the alarm system still for night time use. I arm it during the day but it's just a minor annoyance for anyone semi-competent.
These things are probability issues. A determined burglar can do all the things you mention, but given the option of going someplace that looks less secure, most will choose that. That's why you go ahead and lock your car doors and don't leave a purse in the front seat. Most people with nefarious intent are just looking for the right opportunity. If you define "safe" as "impervious," you may be disappointed. If you define "safe" as "less likely to be burgled," you can indeed do things that will improve your chances. One of those is probably going to be not employing a system that allows fully automated access to your home.
How are cameras in any way going to increase your chances of being burgled?
Not the camera. The door lock automatically opening for the delivery person. Access to the premises adds a vulnerability not present otherwise.
But it's not anyone walking up in brown clothes and it's not like they have the door option for several minutes as they steal your stuff and it's pretty clear that if something is missing that they're both the first suspect and will likely be caught on camera. Your biggest risk is having Amazon's staff potentially be able to use the cameras to spy on homes, unlock doors for an accomplish, and then erase data from both the camera history and door unlocking, but even that's an unlikely scenario.
Also, the trade-off for this 'service' seems a bit unbalanced. If your Amazon order is delivered to your front porch, you risk someone coming along and stealing it off your front porch. Having an automated system that allows the delivery person to leave it inside reduces the risk of theft from your porch, but at the cost of at least some small increased probability of having everything else in your house stolen. It's not just that the delivery person has momentary access to enter your home, but that the delivery person has momentary access to quickly look around and survey whether there is anything worth returning for later. It would seem better just to risk random theft from your front porch.
I agree with you in part, like putting the onus on the company by leaving the package outside. They are more likely to survey the inside, but I think it's improbable to have "everything else in your house stolen." At best, it could be just swiping something convenient that's near the door. They don't have the time case the entire house thoroughly much less steal everything with a camera system that also control the door access times. I think it's more likely that they may accidentally leave the door unlocked or a real thief uses the opportunity to gain access to the home when the driver enters, but even those seem very unlikely. What this comes down to is control and people simply don't want strangers entering their homes. Hell, I don't want anyone I know entering my home when I'm not home.
They don't have to case the entire house. They can just look around the room while putting your package down inside the door. Maybe there's a nice guitar or a Ming Dynasty vase close enough to a window for a quick smash-and-grab. Make the mental note and send an accomplice back by in a few days or a few weeks. So the point is, why reduce the chance of your Deal-of-the-Day $18 digital thermometer being stolen by even incrementally increasing the chance that your $38,000 Ming vase will be stolen, because you granted access to your home while you weren't there? Seems like an odd choice to me, anyway.
Also, the trade-off for this 'service' seems a bit unbalanced. If your Amazon order is delivered to your front porch, you risk someone coming along and stealing it off your front porch. Having an automated system that allows the delivery person to leave it inside reduces the risk of theft from your porch, but at the cost of at least some small increased probability of having everything else in your house stolen. It's not just that the delivery person has momentary access to enter your home, but that the delivery person has momentary access to quickly look around and survey whether there is anything worth returning for later. It would seem better just to risk random theft from your front porch.
I agree with you in part, like putting the onus on the company by leaving the package outside. They are more likely to survey the inside, but I think it's improbable to have "everything else in your house stolen." At best, it could be just swiping something convenient that's near the door. They don't have the time case the entire house thoroughly much less steal everything with a camera system that also control the door access times. I think it's more likely that they may accidentally leave the door unlocked or a real thief uses the opportunity to gain access to the home when the driver enters, but even those seem very unlikely. What this comes down to is control and people simply don't want strangers entering their homes. Hell, I don't want anyone I know entering my home when I'm not home.
They don't have to case the entire house. They can just look around the room while putting your package down inside the door. Maybe there's a nice guitar or a Ming Dynasty vase close enough to a window for a quick smash-and-grab. Make the mental note and send an accomplice back by in a few days or a few weeks. So the point is, why reduce the chance of your Deal-of-the-Day $18 digital thermometer being stolen by even incrementally increasing the chance that your $38,000 Ming vase will be stolen, because you granted access to your home while you weren't there? Seems like an odd choice to me, anyway.
1) They can do that by looking in a window without ever having a trace of being recorded by Amazon's system, too.
2) A $38k Ming vase is your go-to scenario when we're talking about popping a packing inside a front door? How will they get past the security system and disable the cameras (which won't be filled with cheap Amazon cameras) ? Who would have such an expensive vase by the front door in the foyer, or are people having such expensive items in 300 ft studio apartments where a quick glance can see everything? If I have a single vase costing that much in plain sight I'm likely going to have staff on sight to take care of my mansion so they can accept the package for me.
Meh, you can break into most houses in 30 seconds by popping a window lock.
Grab the alarm and stick in freezer to quiet it. if there's an external siren or something that's annoying then just leave.
Grab jewelry and cash from master bedroom and do a quick sweep in less than 5 mins.
Leave before any response is going to happen.
Having been on the receiving end of this kind of B&E and talking to the police a lot of what folks think makes their house "safe" doesn't. I keep the alarm system still for night time use. I arm it during the day but it's just a minor annoyance for anyone semi-competent.
My first reaction is 100% inline with @SpamSandwich, but you make a great points and having a security camera does mean you can record who at least came up to your house. Still, from Amazon and the delivery service's PoV I'd think this is an issue since people could say that these employees stole something, broke something, let their cat out by accident, or did something gross while in the house. I think that's going to be exceedingly rare, but I think there will be some complaints. Whether justified or not, those accusations seem like a huge hassle.
I think the question about the UPS delivery man/women is minor. This is all about Amazon expanding both its delivery business and making the future smart home an Amazon echo controlled home. Bezos is moving faster than Apple. I don't expect the iMacPro and HomePods to arrive by Thanksgiving. Apple has gotten used to being able to deliver products late in December.
I am not all that concerned about the security issues. That can be handled. The bigger issue is the time it takes time to access someones's door and leave the package, secure the door and leave. Not very conducive to efficient delivery of packages. Even if it only adds 30 seconds to the drop (optimistic), that is a huge impact on how many packages can be delivered in a day. Way slower than throwing the box on the porch and leaving quickly.
I think what they're trying to prevent are all-too-common home package delivery robberies. Thieves actually follow delivery trucks and then rob the houses where packages are left at the front door or on a porch.
Also, the trade-off for this 'service' seems a bit unbalanced. If your Amazon order is delivered to your front porch, you risk someone coming along and stealing it off your front porch. Having an automated system that allows the delivery person to leave it inside reduces the risk of theft from your porch, but at the cost of at least some small increased probability of having everything else in your house stolen. It's not just that the delivery person has momentary access to enter your home, but that the delivery person has momentary access to quickly look around and survey whether there is anything worth returning for later. It would seem better just to risk random theft from your front porch.
Makes me think that this woul d make great things as a porch door opener ... smart lock on the porch door, normal lock on the main house door, get all the "safety" of a non connected door and still have the joys of safer delivery.
Meh, you can break into most houses in 30 seconds by popping a window lock.
Grab the alarm and stick in freezer to quiet it. if there's an external siren or something that's annoying then just leave.
Grab jewelry and cash from master bedroom and do a quick sweep in less than 5 mins.
Leave before any response is going to happen.
Having been on the receiving end of this kind of B&E and talking to the police a lot of what folks think makes their house "safe" doesn't. I keep the alarm system still for night time use. I arm it during the day but it's just a minor annoyance for anyone semi-competent.
These things are probability issues. A determined burglar can do all the things you mention, but given the option of going someplace that looks less secure, most will choose that. That's why you go ahead and lock your car doors and don't leave a purse in the front seat. Most people with nefarious intent are just looking for the right opportunity. If you define "safe" as "impervious," you may be disappointed. If you define "safe" as "less likely to be burgled," you can indeed do things that will improve your chances. One of those is probably going to be not employing a system that allows fully automated access to your home.
How are cameras in any way going to increase your chances of being burgled?
Not the camera. The door lock automatically opening for the delivery person. Access to the premises adds a vulnerability not present otherwise.
But it's not anyone walking up in brown clothes and it's not like they have the door option for several minutes as they steal your stuff and it's pretty clear that if something is missing that they're both the first suspect and will likely be caught on camera. Your biggest risk is having Amazon's staff potentially be able to use the cameras to spy on homes, unlock doors for an accomplish, and then erase data from both the camera history and door unlocking, but even that's an unlikely scenario.
How do you know how long it's open for? All it says is they know the "time the delivery driver will be there", or should be there.
My first thought was about nefarious delivery drivers. Nothing stopping a dodgy delivery guy arranging a setup if he/she knows the delivery home is unoccupied and locked with a smart lock. They could arrange a fellow no-gooder to sneak up and pretend knock-them out when the door is unlocked, ransack the place without any alarms going off and scarper. Once the driver "comes round", oh no, it's all gone and he/she's in the clear. Nah, no thanks.
It's a problem that needs a solution of some kind. The more that people order online, the more missed deliveries there will be when people are at work. I quite like the idea of using bins or vending machine type lockers. A street can have a shared bin with a few bays in it and it can be shared by different delivery services, similar to a coin-operated newspaper box. That also saves drivers going round each house. There would be electronic locks on the bins and you'd use a smartphone as a key to unlock your own bay to collect it.
Google was one of the companies that experimented with that kind of a delivery service a few years back (in San Fran IIRC) but may now have decided it's not worthwhile. I don't remember reading anything about it in the last year or two.
Also, the trade-off for this 'service' seems a bit unbalanced. If your Amazon order is delivered to your front porch, you risk someone coming along and stealing it off your front porch. Having an automated system that allows the delivery person to leave it inside reduces the risk of theft from your porch, but at the cost of at least some small increased probability of having everything else in your house stolen. It's not just that the delivery person has momentary access to enter your home, but that the delivery person has momentary access to quickly look around and survey whether there is anything worth returning for later. It would seem better just to risk random theft from your front porch.
Makes me think that this woul d make great things as a porch door opener ... smart lock on the porch door, normal lock on the main house door, get all the "safety" of a non connected door and still have the joys of safer delivery.
Also, the trade-off for this 'service' seems a bit unbalanced. If your Amazon order is delivered to your front porch, you risk someone coming along and stealing it off your front porch. Having an automated system that allows the delivery person to leave it inside reduces the risk of theft from your porch, but at the cost of at least some small increased probability of having everything else in your house stolen. It's not just that the delivery person has momentary access to enter your home, but that the delivery person has momentary access to quickly look around and survey whether there is anything worth returning for later. It would seem better just to risk random theft from your front porch.
I agree with you in part, like putting the onus on the company by leaving the package outside. They are more likely to survey the inside, but I think it's improbable to have "everything else in your house stolen." At best, it could be just swiping something convenient that's near the door. They don't have the time case the entire house thoroughly much less steal everything with a camera system that also control the door access times. I think it's more likely that they may accidentally leave the door unlocked or a real thief uses the opportunity to gain access to the home when the driver enters, but even those seem very unlikely. What this comes down to is control and people simply don't want strangers entering their homes. Hell, I don't want anyone I know entering my home when I'm not home.
They don't have to case the entire house. They can just look around the room while putting your package down inside the door. Maybe there's a nice guitar or a Ming Dynasty vase close enough to a window for a quick smash-and-grab. Make the mental note and send an accomplice back by in a few days or a few weeks. So the point is, why reduce the chance of your Deal-of-the-Day $18 digital thermometer being stolen by even incrementally increasing the chance that your $38,000 Ming vase will be stolen, because you granted access to your home while you weren't there? Seems like an odd choice to me, anyway.
1) They can do that by looking in a window without ever having a trace of being recorded by Amazon's system, too.
2) A $38k Ming vase is your go-to scenario when we're talking about popping a packing inside a front door? How will they get past the security system and disable the cameras (which won't be filled with cheap Amazon cameras) ? Who would have such an expensive vase by the front door in the foyer, or are people having such expensive items in 300 ft studio apartments where a quick glance can see everything? If I have a single vase costing that much in plain sight I'm likely going to have staff on sight to take care of my mansion so they can accept the package for me.
Quite the literalist, you are. (2) Substitute 'nice guitar' or any other possession one might have that is more valuable than whatever is in the box you're having delivered. (1) One good look from inside the house is worth two looks from the bushes outside. Unless you're a frequent victim of porch thievery, this service is trading bigger risk for smaller risk. It's quite possible to have your deliveries sent to the UPS Store or the like, you know.
Of course, it's important to note that undoubtedly most people working in the delivery business are decent, honest, hardworking people. I did, however, recently witness a delivery driver being arrested after it was determined that he had been collecting wallets out of unattended pocketbooks while making his rounds through local office buildings. Generally speaking, thievery is a profession for clever opportunists. It is nigh on impossible to guarantee you won't ever be a victim, but it's absolutely possible to make decisions that will limit those opportunities.
Meh, you can break into most houses in 30 seconds by popping a window lock.
Grab the alarm and stick in freezer to quiet it. if there's an external siren or something that's annoying then just leave.
Grab jewelry and cash from master bedroom and do a quick sweep in less than 5 mins.
Leave before any response is going to happen.
Having been on the receiving end of this kind of B&E and talking to the police a lot of what folks think makes their house "safe" doesn't. I keep the alarm system still for night time use. I arm it during the day but it's just a minor annoyance for anyone semi-competent.
My first reaction is 100% inline with @SpamSandwich, but you make a great points and having a security camera does mean you can record who at least came up to your house. Still, from Amazon and the delivery service's PoV I'd think this is an issue since people could say that these employees stole something, broke something, let their cat out by accident, or did something gross while in the house. I think that's going to be exceedingly rare, but I think there will be some complaints. Whether justified or not, those accusations seem like a huge hassle.
I think the question about the UPS delivery man/women is minor. This is all about Amazon expanding both its delivery business and making the future smart home an Amazon echo controlled home. Bezos is moving faster than Apple. I don't expect the iMacPro and HomePods to arrive by Thanksgiving. Apple has gotten used to being able to deliver products late in December.
You're probably right about this being a strategy to get a foot in the door of the smart home market. I don't think the timing vis-a-vis Apple's HomePods is that big a deal, however. Their respective approaches to this are going in totally opposite directions that are fairly consistent with their extant business models. Amazon is angling for customers who have a certain comfort level with trading privacy and security for convenience. Apple will be angling for the customers who want the convenience, but expect greater privacy and security, along with more seamless integration of devices. Apple has had considerable success with coming in "late" but still securing their portion of the market (and often creating a whole new market) with their more complete vision for what the category can actually be.
Also, the trade-off for this 'service' seems a bit unbalanced. If your Amazon order is delivered to your front porch, you risk someone coming along and stealing it off your front porch. Having an automated system that allows the delivery person to leave it inside reduces the risk of theft from your porch, but at the cost of at least some small increased probability of having everything else in your house stolen. It's not just that the delivery person has momentary access to enter your home, but that the delivery person has momentary access to quickly look around and survey whether there is anything worth returning for later. It would seem better just to risk random theft from your front porch.
I agree with you in part, like putting the onus on the company by leaving the package outside. They are more likely to survey the inside, but I think it's improbable to have "everything else in your house stolen." At best, it could be just swiping something convenient that's near the door. They don't have the time case the entire house thoroughly much less steal everything with a camera system that also control the door access times. I think it's more likely that they may accidentally leave the door unlocked or a real thief uses the opportunity to gain access to the home when the driver enters, but even those seem very unlikely. What this comes down to is control and people simply don't want strangers entering their homes. Hell, I don't want anyone I know entering my home when I'm not home.
They don't have to case the entire house. They can just look around the room while putting your package down inside the door. Maybe there's a nice guitar or a Ming Dynasty vase close enough to a window for a quick smash-and-grab. Make the mental note and send an accomplice back by in a few days or a few weeks. So the point is, why reduce the chance of your Deal-of-the-Day $18 digital thermometer being stolen by even incrementally increasing the chance that your $38,000 Ming vase will be stolen, because you granted access to your home while you weren't there? Seems like an odd choice to me, anyway.
1) They can do that by looking in a window without ever having a trace of being recorded by Amazon's system, too.
2) A $38k Ming vase is your go-to scenario when we're talking about popping a packing inside a front door? How will they get past the security system and disable the cameras (which won't be filled with cheap Amazon cameras) ? Who would have such an expensive vase by the front door in the foyer, or are people having such expensive items in 300 ft studio apartments where a quick glance can see everything? If I have a single vase costing that much in plain sight I'm likely going to have staff on sight to take care of my mansion so they can accept the package for me.
Quite the literalist, you are. (2) Substitute 'nice guitar' or any other possession one might have that is more valuable than whatever is in the box you're having delivered. (1) One good look from inside the house is worth two looks from the bushes outside. Unless you're a frequent victim of porch thievery, this service is trading bigger risk for smaller risk. It's quite possible to have your deliveries sent to the UPS Store or the like, you know.
Of course, it's important to note that undoubtedly most people working in the delivery business are decent, honest, hardworking people. I did, however, recently witness a delivery driver being arrested after it was determined that he had been collecting wallets out of unattended pocketbooks while making his rounds through local office buildings. Generally speaking, thievery is a profession for clever opportunists. It is nigh on impossible to guarantee you won't ever be a victim, but it's absolutely possible to make decisions that will limit those opportunities.
1) I'm just going off your very specific item from a specific country for a very specific era in its history at a very specific price.
2) You know that mail service can case a home just by looking in a window, looking for evidence of security systems and large dogs, seeing what cars are in the driveway or the mail you receive, and who may be home at certain times of the day to case a place. Hell, we make it easy for USPS when we stop mail delivery when we go on vacation or have Summer/Winter homes that we stay at for months out of the year. This doesn't change any of that except that Amazon deliveries will know when doors are opened, when door locks are reengaged, and know there's at least one camera in the house.
Also, the trade-off for this 'service' seems a bit unbalanced. If your Amazon order is delivered to your front porch, you risk someone coming along and stealing it off your front porch. Having an automated system that allows the delivery person to leave it inside reduces the risk of theft from your porch, but at the cost of at least some small increased probability of having everything else in your house stolen. It's not just that the delivery person has momentary access to enter your home, but that the delivery person has momentary access to quickly look around and survey whether there is anything worth returning for later. It would seem better just to risk random theft from your front porch.
I agree with you in part, like putting the onus on the company by leaving the package outside. They are more likely to survey the inside, but I think it's improbable to have "everything else in your house stolen." At best, it could be just swiping something convenient that's near the door. They don't have the time case the entire house thoroughly much less steal everything with a camera system that also control the door access times. I think it's more likely that they may accidentally leave the door unlocked or a real thief uses the opportunity to gain access to the home when the driver enters, but even those seem very unlikely. What this comes down to is control and people simply don't want strangers entering their homes. Hell, I don't want anyone I know entering my home when I'm not home.
They don't have to case the entire house. They can just look around the room while putting your package down inside the door. Maybe there's a nice guitar or a Ming Dynasty vase close enough to a window for a quick smash-and-grab. Make the mental note and send an accomplice back by in a few days or a few weeks. So the point is, why reduce the chance of your Deal-of-the-Day $18 digital thermometer being stolen by even incrementally increasing the chance that your $38,000 Ming vase will be stolen, because you granted access to your home while you weren't there? Seems like an odd choice to me, anyway.
1) They can do that by looking in a window without ever having a trace of being recorded by Amazon's system, too.
2) A $38k Ming vase is your go-to scenario when we're talking about popping a packing inside a front door? How will they get past the security system and disable the cameras (which won't be filled with cheap Amazon cameras) ? Who would have such an expensive vase by the front door in the foyer, or are people having such expensive items in 300 ft studio apartments where a quick glance can see everything? If I have a single vase costing that much in plain sight I'm likely going to have staff on sight to take care of my mansion so they can accept the package for me.
Quite the literalist, you are. (2) Substitute 'nice guitar' or any other possession one might have that is more valuable than whatever is in the box you're having delivered. (1) One good look from inside the house is worth two looks from the bushes outside. Unless you're a frequent victim of porch thievery, this service is trading bigger risk for smaller risk. It's quite possible to have your deliveries sent to the UPS Store or the like, you know.
Of course, it's important to note that undoubtedly most people working in the delivery business are decent, honest, hardworking people. I did, however, recently witness a delivery driver being arrested after it was determined that he had been collecting wallets out of unattended pocketbooks while making his rounds through local office buildings. Generally speaking, thievery is a profession for clever opportunists. It is nigh on impossible to guarantee you won't ever be a victim, but it's absolutely possible to make decisions that will limit those opportunities.
1) I'm just going off your very specific item from a specific country for a very specific era in its history at a very specific price.
2) You know that mail service can case a home just by looking in a window, looking for evidence of security systems and large dogs, seeing what cars are in the driveway or the mail you receive, and who may be home at certain times of the day to case a place. Hell, we make it easy for USPS when we stop mail delivery when we go on vacation or have Summer/Winter homes that we stay at for months out of the year. This doesn't change any of that except that Amazon deliveries will know when doors are opened, when door locks are reengaged, and know there's at least one camera in the house.
Comments
They don't have to case the entire house. They can just look around the room while putting your package down inside the door. Maybe there's a nice guitar or a Ming Dynasty vase close enough to a window for a quick smash-and-grab. Make the mental note and send an accomplice back by in a few days or a few weeks. So the point is, why reduce the chance of your Deal-of-the-Day $18 digital thermometer being stolen by even incrementally increasing the chance that your $38,000 Ming vase will be stolen, because you granted access to your home while you weren't there? Seems like an odd choice to me, anyway.
2) A $38k Ming vase is your go-to scenario when we're talking about popping a packing inside a front door? How will they get past the security system and disable the cameras (which won't be filled with cheap Amazon cameras) ? Who would have such an expensive vase by the front door in the foyer, or are people having such expensive items in 300 ft studio apartments where a quick glance can see everything? If I have a single vase costing that much in plain sight I'm likely going to have staff on sight to take care of my mansion so they can accept the package for me.
My first thought was about nefarious delivery drivers. Nothing stopping a dodgy delivery guy arranging a setup if he/she knows the delivery home is unoccupied and locked with a smart lock. They could arrange a fellow no-gooder to sneak up and pretend knock-them out when the door is unlocked, ransack the place without any alarms going off and scarper. Once the driver "comes round", oh no, it's all gone and he/she's in the clear. Nah, no thanks.
EDIT: The Google service was Buffer Box. I think Amazon might also have toyed with the idea of delivery lockers, maybe still does.
Edit2: Yes Amazon did a few years back, and have now expanded on it with "The Hub". Maybe Google will reconsider it too.
https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/27/amazon-launches-the-hub-parcel-delivery-lockers-for-apartment-buildings/
Of course, it's important to note that undoubtedly most people working in the delivery business are decent, honest, hardworking people. I did, however, recently witness a delivery driver being arrested after it was determined that he had been collecting wallets out of unattended pocketbooks while making his rounds through local office buildings. Generally speaking, thievery is a profession for clever opportunists. It is nigh on impossible to guarantee you won't ever be a victim, but it's absolutely possible to make decisions that will limit those opportunities.
2) You know that mail service can case a home just by looking in a window, looking for evidence of security systems and large dogs, seeing what cars are in the driveway or the mail you receive, and who may be home at certain times of the day to case a place. Hell, we make it easy for USPS when we stop mail delivery when we go on vacation or have Summer/Winter homes that we stay at for months out of the year. This doesn't change any of that except that Amazon deliveries will know when doors are opened, when door locks are reengaged, and know there's at least one camera in the house.