Apple slams story of cash hidden in Jersey to reduce taxes, calls itself 'largest taxpayer...

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  • Reply 41 of 103
    Cities, towns and of course countries give tax breaks or deferrals to large companies all the time. Look at those ridiculous mega sports stadiums which American cities subsidize for billionaire team owners using city and state taxes. After the construction how many locals really benefit outside of low paying service jobs and some mid-managmene positions. It should not be any surprise that mega corporations like Apple take advantage of "loop holes" which are not errors in the tax code but carefully crafted "tax escapes" for big companies to exploit. The authors of these tax laws are trying to please their real masters and I am not talking about the average citizen. Political campaigns are fueled mostly by huge corporations which contribute to both candidates so no matter which wins they now have someone who is grateful and needs to pay back the favor. 

    Apple pays the most taxes because Apple is the most profitable company in the world, what do they want an award for this? 
    I can say with certainty that nothing will change in regards to these tax haven and I find it almost ironic that companies such as Apple have amassed so much money and seem to be unable to access it now. Bite the bullet Apple, pay taxes on that money earned like the rest of do. 

    muthuk_vanalingamgatorguyavon b7
  • Reply 42 of 103
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,641member
    avon b7 said:

    avon b7 said:
    This is a damage control statement. The article by the BBC is a damning revelation that leaves Apple in a bad moral light.

    The questionnaire leak alone paints a picture which will make everyone in PR at Apple squirm.

    This is going to be like quicksand in the sense that any move to defend itself will probably make things worse. Just like this statement has done. I can see it being torn apart line by line for deliberately trying to distract from the reality that the leaks have put onto the table.

    What leaks?????  Apple's rebuttal specifically states that when the move the Jersey was made Apple notified Ireland, the EU and the US.  Seems to me that Apple's move was fully transparent and there was no attempt to hide its actions.
    The Paradise Papers.
    Isn't a leak supposed to be something that was secret?
    The key in this leak is that it provides the lines that help join the dots. Journalists have started to unravel some of the knots that have impeded efforts to do this. What we have seen so far is the tip of the iceberg and already some governments are on the scent. If everything were open as you suggest, governments wouldn't be acting on the content of this leak.

    The next step on a government level is to make sure everything is legal and take action against anyone found to be outside the law.

    On a moral level people will make up their own minds but Apple made this statement precisely because this is a PR disaster. The question is, was it wise or not to make such a statement just two days into the storm?
    edited November 2017
  • Reply 43 of 103
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 2,529moderator
    spice-boy said:
    Cities, towns and of course countries give tax breaks or deferrals to large companies all the time. Look at those ridiculous mega sports stadiums which American cities subsidize for billionaire team owners using city and state taxes. After the construction how many locals really benefit outside of low paying service jobs and some mid-managmene positions. It should not be any surprise that mega corporations like Apple take advantage of "loop holes" which are not errors in the tax code but carefully crafted "tax escapes" for big companies to exploit. The authors of these tax laws are trying to please their real masters and I am not talking about the average citizen. Political campaigns are fueled mostly by huge corporations which contribute to both candidates so no matter which wins they now have someone who is grateful and needs to pay back the favor. 

    Apple pays the most taxes because Apple is the most profitable company in the world, what do they want an award for this? 
    I can say with certainty that nothing will change in regards to these tax haven and I find it almost ironic that companies such as Apple have amassed so much money and seem to be unable to access it now. Bite the bullet Apple, pay taxes on that money earned like the rest of do. 

    Do you pay taxes on your money earned every year?  All of it?  Or do you take advantage of provision in tax law that allows you set defer taxes on a portion of your income; 401(k)?  Apple isn’t only the largest tax payer in the world, it’s also the largest in the US.  And, Applepays a higher tax rate than many other large US corporations.  Did you know GE managed its taxes for many years to pay an effective tax rate of 0%?  That’s where the problems lie, not with provisions that work to allow corporations to defer repatriation. 
    StrangeDaysjony0
  • Reply 44 of 103
    avon b7 said:
    This is a damage control statement. The article by the BBC is a damning revelation that leaves Apple in a bad moral light.

    The questionnaire leak alone paints a picture which will make everyone in PR at Apple squirm.

    This is going to be like quicksand in the sense that any move to defend itself will probably make things worse. Just like this statement has done. I can see it being torn apart line by line for deliberately trying to distract from the reality that the leaks have put onto the table.

    Bad moral light?
    Do you mean, minimizing your loses is immoral? Well, making money overall is immoral, at least in USSR/soviet regime it definitely was.
    Are we again started this talk about "fair" share?
    edited November 2017 StrangeDays
  • Reply 45 of 103
    nhtnht Posts: 4,214member


    avon b7 said:
    unphocus said:
    Why is it so high a tax rate for US company to bring home earnings? It’s like the US Government doesn’t want US multinational company to bring back any earnings to the US. High repatriation tax rate makes company looks for loopholes to pay less taxes. The US Congress should be saying “we see what’s happening; let’s reduce repatriation tax rate to make is easy for company to bring back earning from abroad so these companies can use the money to create more jobs” or something to that nature. It boggles my mind the stupidity of high repatriation tax rate. 
    I take a slightly different viewpoint. Earnings are made in tax years and rules apply to those years. Whatever the rules are, companies in any given tax jurisdiction, should abide by those rules and push for a change in tax legislation if they consider them to be unfair.

    From a moral perspective, I believe witholding payment of taxes until such a time is 'right' for the company, is wrong. As is the idea that a company itself, can determine how much to make available for taxation. Especially if that same option is not open to competitors.

    You can be sure that some here will roll out the shareholder argument and that Apple must do all it can to maximise it's return to shareholders, even if it means employing questionable accounting practices. That is missing the point entirely.
    When you do your own taxes do you ever decide late in the year to add more money to a tax deferred account or perhaps time your sale of assets to defer taxes by 1 year?  If not, you're a fool.  The tax laws lay out what is permissible.  Taking advantage of every possibility to reduce or defer taxes within those boundaries is the only smart thing to do.
    I suspect Avon B7 doesn’t grok that this is a tax deferral issue.  Many seem to believe Apple is somehow avoiding taxes rather than merely deferring them.  You’d think he be up to speed; the guy comments on pretty much every AI article, has been around for years...  but some folks never catch on, and that betrays an ulterior motive/agenda. 
    He's a troll.  First is was the MBP had poor sales, just wait.  Then it was they said it was strong but never reported numbers besides massive profits and increased unit sales.  Now it's they are lying about the iPhone X.

    This guy is our resident concern troll. 
    radarthekatpscooter63StrangeDayspatchythepiratejony0
  • Reply 46 of 103
    Apple is doing whatever it can to avoid tax.  Is all of it legal?  I'm sure it meets the letter of the law in the country in which the tax shelter is formed but likely is being abused.  I used to work in public accounting and would see it all the time as companies worked to minimize their taxes.  Many companies were organized in Delaware where there wasn't a corporate income tax.  They set up a management company in Delaware with a few employees and then would then set up subsidiary companies (hospitals in the case of the companies I worked on) as required to operate in the various states.  At year end the management company charged an "operating fee" to the subsidiary companies substantially equal to their profit which effectively eliminated any state-level income tax.

    Apple is doing something extremely similar except on a multi-national level rather than an intrastate level.  They are being very disingenuous with the statement "we are paying all the taxes we owe" when you look at their revenue sources.  If their income were taxed in the location where the sales actually took place then they would owe a whole lot more.  It is only through convoluted tax shelters and the cooperation of small countries that reap extraordinary benefit for hosting those tax shelters that Apple can say with a straight face they are following the law.

    The law needs to be reformed to eliminate the arbitrary shifting of profits to tax havens and instead provide for a true evaluation of where the money was earned.  Here's one possible way:  take the overall profit for the company and allocate it based on the percentage of revenue received from each country.  If the United States accounted for 1/3 of total revenue then Apple should pay tax on 1/3 of it's overall profit based on U.S. tax codes.
    odysseus1923
  • Reply 47 of 103
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,042member
    nht said:


    avon b7 said:
    unphocus said:
    Why is it so high a tax rate for US company to bring home earnings? It’s like the US Government doesn’t want US multinational company to bring back any earnings to the US. High repatriation tax rate makes company looks for loopholes to pay less taxes. The US Congress should be saying “we see what’s happening; let’s reduce repatriation tax rate to make is easy for company to bring back earning from abroad so these companies can use the money to create more jobs” or something to that nature. It boggles my mind the stupidity of high repatriation tax rate. 
    I take a slightly different viewpoint. Earnings are made in tax years and rules apply to those years. Whatever the rules are, companies in any given tax jurisdiction, should abide by those rules and push for a change in tax legislation if they consider them to be unfair.

    From a moral perspective, I believe witholding payment of taxes until such a time is 'right' for the company, is wrong. As is the idea that a company itself, can determine how much to make available for taxation. Especially if that same option is not open to competitors.

    You can be sure that some here will roll out the shareholder argument and that Apple must do all it can to maximise it's return to shareholders, even if it means employing questionable accounting practices. That is missing the point entirely.
    When you do your own taxes do you ever decide late in the year to add more money to a tax deferred account or perhaps time your sale of assets to defer taxes by 1 year?  If not, you're a fool.  The tax laws lay out what is permissible.  Taking advantage of every possibility to reduce or defer taxes within those boundaries is the only smart thing to do.
    I suspect Avon B7 doesn’t grok that this is a tax deferral issue.  Many seem to believe Apple is somehow avoiding taxes rather than merely deferring them.  You’d think he be up to speed; the guy comments on pretty much every AI article, has been around for years...  but some folks never catch on, and that betrays an ulterior motive/agenda. 
    He's a troll.  First is was the MBP had poor sales, just wait.  Then it was they said it was strong but never reported numbers besides massive profits and increased unit sales.  Now it's they are lying about the iPhone X.

    This guy is our resident concern troll. 
    Avon b7 is absolutely Huawei's guy; couldn't stop talking about the Kirin 970, it's AI capabilities, and various Mate's prior to the iPhone 8 announcement, but the X has him fully stymied. So, he now attacks Apple from the flanks. 

    Unfortunately for Avon b7,  and I have made a point of looking, there is very little buzz for the Mate 10, and almost nothing but praise for the X.

    I would also note that the U.S. is not Spain, Avon b7's home country, so moral comparisons aren't really appropriate nor useful, no matter what the Spanish Government is investigating wrt foreign companies. One can argue American Hubris, but since the 1940's, the U.S. has been driving a lot of the technology through our competitive desire to remain a Superpower.
    radarthekatpscooter63StrangeDaysjony0loquitur
  • Reply 48 of 103
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 4,236member

    maestro64 said:
    I read an article a while back by an international banking expert, this news is not new. This guy said anyone who thinks that US companies international earning are sitting in an off shore bank is fouling themselves. It may be sitting in international bank, but most likely the actual account and money is in US bank, most likely NYC. The expert said no US company would want to leave that kind of cash off shore, they would want to maintain control over that money and not let the control be done outside the US.
    Absolutely.  You can see from Apple’s filings that a good deal of it is invested in US Treasuries and other securities, like mortgage backed securities.  It earns about 1%, by the way.  So yeah, it’s relatively safe.  The notion of the money being ‘offshore’, the expert should have gone on to say, is not where the money isphysically held, but is rather a legal status of the money for taxation purposes.  Apple cannot spend that money here in the states on capital projects, R&D, share buybacks, dividends, etc, until it is repatriated (another legal term that doesn’t suggest physical movement of the cash).


    Correct, the expert did say all of that. Until he laid it all out, I personally thought the money was held off shore physically. The Bank that holds apple money can move it anywhere in the world that Apple wants them and invest the money anyway Apple wants. But Apple can never use the Money in the US for any US purposes. The US government knows this and as you pointed out by Apple's Banks investing in government bonds and such, it helps our government. This whole things is just a hit piece trying to make people think Apple and other companies are doing something unethical.

    As Apple and Trump both said, they are following the laws which our government put in place, if they do not like it change the laws, Congress has complete control over this situation they just need to change the rules.

    edited November 2017 tmay
  • Reply 49 of 103
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 2,529moderator
    78Bandit said:
    Apple is doing whatever it can to avoid tax.  Is all of it legal?  I'm sure it meets the letter of the law in the country in which the tax shelter is formed but likely is being abused.  I used to work in public accounting and would see it all the time as companies worked to minimize their taxes.  Many companies were organized in Delaware where there wasn't a corporate income tax.  They set up a management company in Delaware with a few employees and then would then set up subsidiary companies (hospitals in the case of the companies I worked on) as required to operate in the various states.  At year end the management company charged an "operating fee" to the subsidiary companies substantially equal to their profit which effectively eliminated any state-level income tax.

    Apple is doing something extremely similar except on a multi-national level rather than an intrastate level.  They are being very disingenuous with the statement "we are paying all the taxes we owe" when you look at their revenue sources.  If their income were taxed in the location where the sales actually took place then they would owe a whole lot more.  It is only through convoluted tax shelters and the cooperation of small countries that reap extraordinary benefit for hosting those tax shelters that Apple can say with a straight face they are following the law.

    The law needs to be reformed to eliminate the arbitrary shifting of profits to tax havens and instead provide for a true evaluation of where the money was earned.  Here's one possible way:  take the overall profit for the company and allocate it based on the percentage of revenue received from each country.  If the United States accounted for 1/3 of total revenue then Apple should pay tax on 1/3 of it's overall profit based on U.S. tax codes.
    Your argument neglects the provision in tax law that recognizes that not ALL the value of an iPhone sold in , say, Belgium, should be attributed to Belgium.  Much of the design and engineering and the software, is developed in the United States.  Are you suggesting the US should not recieve its fair share against every iPhone sold worldwide for the engineering and design talent that resides and creates within its borders?  The law would disagree with you on that, and Apple goes by the law.  
    edited November 2017 StrangeDaysjony0
  • Reply 50 of 103
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 4,236member

    I wonder if all of those who, claim Apple and other companies are doing something wrong, are you paying all your taxes. Do you just record how much you make and pay total due, or do you also use the deductions for interest paid on school loans, mortgage interest deduction, do you deduct charitable contributions, how about child care credit or the child credit giving to family for just having a kid. Do you all pay your use tax to your state for those Amaizon purchases or do you rely on the fact that Amaizon and other Internet company do not reside in your home state and they do not collect sales tax. you do know your suppose to report those purchases to you state and pay the sales tax.  

    No one pay their full burden of taxes, everyone using laws to their tax benefits.

    StrangeDays
  • Reply 51 of 103
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 4,236member
    paxman said:
    The fact that Apple is the largest tax payer in the world seems entirely irrelevant to me. I don't know the details of the allegations and have no opinion at the moment, but the fact that you pay a lot of taxes means only that you are very rich, not that you you are innocent of any bad behavior. 

    Read my post above, do you pay all your taxes, remember those who live in glass houses. You know there are people who make money and are not all that rich and pay no taxes, some actually get money back and pay nothing in.
  • Reply 52 of 103
    croprcropr Posts: 826member
    metrix said:
    It certainly appears that the EU and other entities are pursuing Apple's wealth only years and years after its generating all this profit.
    Apple will see an attack from all directions because the competition is sensing a huge shift due to the success of the latest iPhone. The adults are going crazy over Animoji, I can see kids just going nuts for this. This may be the Elmo of this Christmas.
    But it only appears to be so.  The EU is mainly interested is making an equal playing field inside the EU.  That is the reason why it it suing Ireland for illegal state aid and not Apple for tax avoidance.  The tax avoidance is only a consequence of the illegal state aid.  Take a closer look at all the other cases that Vestager is investigaing, she is always going after the member states which try to attract companies by giving them illegal state aid.  Although in 80% of the cases the illegal state aid results in tax avoidance, this is not always the case.
    muthuk_vanalingampropod
  • Reply 53 of 103
    robjnrobjn Posts: 193member
    avon b7 said:
    This is a damage control statement. The article by the BBC is a damning revelation that leaves Apple in a bad moral light.

    The questionnaire leak alone paints a picture which will make everyone in PR at Apple squirm.

    This is going to be like quicksand in the sense that any move to defend itself will probably make things worse. Just like this statement has done. I can see it being torn apart line by line for deliberately trying to distract from the reality that the leaks have put onto the table.

    Nope. The the articles in the media play on public ignorance of international tax laws and stir emotion through our innate sense of justice.

    The fact is that international tax law is probably not fair.

    An iPhone might be designed in the US, made in Asia and sold in the U.K. Services might be managed somewhere else and every country along the way wants a large chunk of the profits - but international law dictates that most of the tax should be paid in the U.S.

    Apple is caught in a tug of war between countries as to how future tax laws should distribute the money.

    The narritive that Apple pays no tax is utterly false and dishonest reporting. The BBC is guilty here!

    I follow Apple’s financial reporting and they pay about 25% tax.

    So again, these stories play on emotion that springs from the profound inequality that most people suffer everyday. These stories are also promoted by governments that believe international law should entitle them to more taxes from work done in the US - something the US government vehemently opposes.

    In the meantime Apple just follows the law as it stands.
    edited November 2017 tmayradarthekatStrangeDaysjony0
  • Reply 54 of 103
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 4,236member
    kkqd1337 said:
    This is a global problem. Apple is no different from other companies doing the same, but their huge success magnifies the situation.

    All international companies treat their tax liability and employees with contempt. And Apple do to - they do little to protect their factory workers or their Apple store employees who are on minimum wage despite each probably selling >$1million of product every year


    I love when people throw the "Global" word around. As much as countries which are not the US or one of the big five want everyone else to think about things globally, at the end of the day, those countries are not going to come to your help or anyone else's help when things go bad. Other than Mexico, who send help to the US for the 3 Hurricanes which hit the US and caused $100B in damage, none. However, When bad things happen around the world who is the first country to step up, The US and its citizens, The US already thinks globally and help when help is needed, but the US never sees anything in return. US companies pay more taxes around the world than any others.

    By the way, Apple does not employee factory workers. Foxconn a Taiwanese companies does, they operating in the US, Taiwan, China, South America and the EU and they follow the local laws for those countries. I been in a number of Foxconn Factories and they do exactly what they are allowed or not allowed to do in all those locations. Foxconn in the Bay Area follows California Labor laws. In the case of Apple they hold their contract manufacturers to a higher standard than the local governments if they want Apple business. Those locations then follow Apple rules in most cases.

    StrangeDays
  • Reply 55 of 103
    robjnrobjn Posts: 193member
    78Bandit said:
    Apple is doing whatever it can to avoid tax.  Is all of it legal?  I'm sure it meets the letter of the law in the country in which the tax shelter is formed but likely is being abused.  I used to work in public accounting and would see it all the time as companies worked to minimize their taxes.  Many companies were organized in Delaware where there wasn't a corporate income tax.  They set up a management company in Delaware with a few employees and then would then set up subsidiary companies (hospitals in the case of the companies I worked on) as required to operate in the various states.  At year end the management company charged an "operating fee" to the subsidiary companies substantially equal to their profit which effectively eliminated any state-level income tax.

    Apple is doing something extremely similar except on a multi-national level rather than an intrastate level.  They are being very disingenuous with the statement "we are paying all the taxes we owe" when you look at their revenue sources.  If their income were taxed in the location where the sales actually took place then they would owe a whole lot more.  It is only through convoluted tax shelters and the cooperation of small countries that reap extraordinary benefit for hosting those tax shelters that Apple can say with a straight face they are following the law.

    The law needs to be reformed to eliminate the arbitrary shifting of profits to tax havens and instead provide for a true evaluation of where the money was earned.  Here's one possible way:  take the overall profit for the company and allocate it based on the percentage of revenue received from each country.  If the United States accounted for 1/3 of total revenue then Apple should pay tax on 1/3 of it's overall profit based on U.S. tax codes.
    The fundamental principle is that the bulk of taxes are paid where the value-adding work is done. This needs to be assessed internationally but the fact is that the vast majority of value-adding work is done in Cupertino - where the products are invented.

    Countries like the U.K. already charge much higher rates of sales tax. That’s why Apple customers in the U.K. will typically pay about 10% more than a customer in the U.S. - So is the U.K. government really suffering as much as the BBC would have us believe?
    radarthekat
  • Reply 56 of 103
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,641member
    Rayz2016 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    unphocus said:
    Why is it so high a tax rate for US company to bring home earnings? It’s like the US Government doesn’t want US multinational company to bring back any earnings to the US. High repatriation tax rate makes company looks for loopholes to pay less taxes. The US Congress should be saying “we see what’s happening; let’s reduce repatriation tax rate to make is easy for company to bring back earning from abroad so these companies can use the money to create more jobs” or something to that nature. It boggles my mind the stupidity of high repatriation tax rate. 
    I take a slightly different viewpoint. Earnings are made in tax years and rules apply to those years. Whatever the rules are, companies in any given tax jurisdiction, should abide by those rules and push for a change in tax legislation if they consider them to be unfair.

    From a moral perspective, I believe witholding payment of taxes until such a time is 'right' for the company, is wrong. As is the idea that a company itself, can determine how much to make available for taxation. Especially if that same option is not open to competitors.

    You can be sure that some here will roll out the shareholder argument and that Apple must do all it can to maximise it's return to shareholders, even if it means employing questionable accounting practices. That is missing the point entirely.
    You seem to have a very loose grip on this situation.  What Apple is doing is deferring taxes by holding profits outside the US.  That’s legal, and for very good reason.  US companies that earn profits outside the US have the option of spending those profits outside the US, to grow operations, build factories or retail outlets, acquire companies, etc.  Profit so spent will never be repatriated and therefore will never be subject to US taxes.  And indeed, Apple does invest/spend some of its foreign profits in this manner.  So companies have a perfect right to hold profits overseas while weighing their best use.  In Apple’s case, the company apparently feels that a change to the tax rate for repatriated profits would tip the balance toward repatriating a significant amount of those profits, but without a reduction in the tax rate feels it should wait, keeping its options open.  The rest is merely the specific mechanics of where the profits are domiciled to be held outside the US.   And there’s nothing illegal about Apple’s practices in that regard, nor is what Apple doing something not available to any other corporation that wishes to apply the resources (tax experts) to do so.  In fact, it’s been reported that many other corporations do exactly the same, including Google, GE, etc. 


    The legality of the situation is to be verified in this particular case and does not limit itself to US jurisdiction. The Spanish government for example has stated it will investigate all the names included in the leaks. Everything will have to be cross referenced.

    As we have seen in recent times, investigations have revealed practices deemed to be legal by the corporations involved but illegal by tax authorities.

    The EU has already stated that Apple's tax setup effectively allowed it to determine how much it made available for taxation. What wasn't made available for taxation in the year it was due, is very likely part of the sum you are referring to as deferrable but this will have to be verified. 
    You’re throwing out a lot of theoretical without anything concrete:

    ”will investigate”
    ”but this has to be verified”

    really amounts to little more more than wishful thinking. And bearing in mind this liability has already been accounted for, it’ll make no difference. 


    Those are the words of Cristóbal Montoro (Spanish Minister of the Treasury and Public Administrations) yesterday.

    The national Spanish newspaper El País has already run a spread this year on the operations of multinationals and their tax affairs which got specific on Apple's operations in Spain. The company wasn't left in good light. The Paradise Papers will no doubt be fuel for the flames to a degree but don't worry, Apple has nothing to worry about right?

    The simple fact of the matter is that they took the unusual step of making a statement mere hours after the leaks broke cover. They are worried. Innocent or not. Their corporate image is taking a hit in just about every news publication covering the story and we aren't talking about one with a scoop.

    The amount of data leaked was so vast that it was beyond the scope of just one outlet.

    Exactly how much relates to Apple is yet to be seen. We simply don't know yet but what little is known was enough for Apple to issue a statement.

    So, weasel words? No.
  • Reply 57 of 103
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 4,236member
    cropr said:
    metrix said:
    It certainly appears that the EU and other entities are pursuing Apple's wealth only years and years after its generating all this profit.
    Apple will see an attack from all directions because the competition is sensing a huge shift due to the success of the latest iPhone. The adults are going crazy over Animoji, I can see kids just going nuts for this. This may be the Elmo of this Christmas.
    But it only appears to be so.  The EU is mainly interested is making an equal playing field inside the EU.  That is the reason why it it suing Ireland for illegal state aid and not Apple for tax avoidance.  The tax avoidance is only a consequence of the illegal state aid.  Take a closer look at all the other cases that Vestager is investigaing, she is always going after the member states which try to attract companies by giving them illegal state aid.  Although in 80% of the cases the illegal state aid results in tax avoidance, this is not always the case.
    I agree the EU is trying to balance things out, trying the communist peanut butter method of spreading evenly as possible. The issue here, I have said it before, the Apple/Irish deal goes back to the earily 80's prior to the EU having the authority they have today. Back them Ireland had a 20%+ unemployment so Ireland struck a deal with Apple to bring high paying jobs to Ireland. What did the EU do to help Ireland back then and now. Nothing!! Ireland made a bet on Apple and other companies and Apple is paying off for them, Ireland is a better place today not because the EU did anything special for them. But the EU now wants to spread that money around to other EU partners who did nothing to help Ireland when things were bad. You can bet the EU is not going to rush to Ireland side if Apple decide to shut things down there. The EU invited all these immigrants from all over the place into their countries which do not have any skills and they looking for Apple to help pay the Bill. Not only does Apple have to support it workers with good wages, they also support government activities with taxes and now the EU want them to pay for people who can not do anything of value.
    edited November 2017 radarthekatpatchythepirate
  • Reply 58 of 103
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 19,061member
    robjn said:
    avon b7 said:
    This is a damage control statement. The article by the BBC is a damning revelation that leaves Apple in a bad moral light.

    The questionnaire leak alone paints a picture which will make everyone in PR at Apple squirm.

    This is going to be like quicksand in the sense that any move to defend itself will probably make things worse. Just like this statement has done. I can see it being torn apart line by line for deliberately trying to distract from the reality that the leaks have put onto the table.



    The fact is that international tax law is probably not fair.

    I follow Apple’s financial reporting and they pay about 25% tax.
    In the meantime Apple just follows the law as it stands.
    ...on what they decide is taxable income. Around $100B is not considered taxable as far as Apple is concerned, and no provision for deferred taxes have been set aside for it. Apple has other revenues that they have decided are taxable and some of that is deferred, not actually paid to tax authorities. 
    edited November 2017
  • Reply 59 of 103
    I have an idea. Solves everything. Simple. Also follows the Constitution, its tenets, and its intent.

    Individual person: 0% income tax
    Business: 20% income tax, all forms, methods, and types of income
    • Business below $100,000 per year: 20% income tax
    • Business between $100,000 and $500,000 per year: 20%
    • Business between $500,000 and $1,000,000 per year: 20%
    • Business between $1,000,000 and $10,000,000 per year: 20%
    • Business between $10,000,000 and $100,000,000 per year: 20%
    • Business between $100,000,000 and $1,000,000,000 per year: 20%
    • Business between $1,000,000,000 and $10,000,000,000 per year: 20%
    • Business between $10,000,000,000 and $100,000,000,000 per year: 20%
    • Business above $100,000,000,000 per year: 20%

    Wow. So hard. There’s a lot of backlash from the government to something like this. Even just the business aspect of it. Makes you wonder why. Makes you wonder who they really serve. Makes you wonder why we haven’t killed them all yet.
    edited November 2017 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 60 of 103
    Think of it this way: what if you asked 100 random people on the street if they would prefer to...

    A. Have an income level so low that they paid very little in taxes
    B. Have an income level so high that they paid the maximum in taxes

    How many do you think are going to pick A? Very few. The truth of the matter is that paying a lot of taxes is not actually a burden at all, so statements about being the world's largest taxpayer are essentially meaningless. A poor person that pays sales tax, payroll tax, and state/city taxes has more of a tax burden relative to their income than Apple. They've got far more to worry about and everyone knows it. 
    gatorguy
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