Latest iOS 11.2 beta clarifies that Control Center doesn't fully disable Wi-Fi and Bluetoo...

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 33
    [...] That Apple is inconveniencing me to monetize my movements really peeves me.
    How is Apple monetizing your movements?
    randominternetperson
  • Reply 22 of 33
    dysamoria said:
    This is Apple digging in their heels on this idiotic change to settings that used to be useful.
    I’m not sure why people need to completely turn off WiFi and Bluetooth but if you do can’t you just put the phone in airplane mode? Adding 3D Touch option to WiFi to chose between disconnect and turning the radios off would probably be a good idea but my guess is Apple has data that very few people ever need to turn WiFi or Bluetooth completely off. 
  • Reply 23 of 33
    entropys said:
    jungmark said:


    If Cook really cared about it’s user base, he’d put in an option to allow me to change this from default disconnect to off.   It can default to disconnect, sure, but making me go into settings and turn off WiFi and Bluetooth every time I want to airdrop and worse WiFi every time I leave my house— it’s ludicrous.  

    ugh. Stop this "If cook cares..." nonsense . How do you know he isn't listening to other users that have complained they couldnt use Air drop and/or location services accuracy?

    Still they should 3D touch it to disable completely or a triple toggle: On/disconnect/Off. 
    or, you could turn on flight mode.

    still, if a function needs a pop up to explain what it is doing it isn’t very intuitive. 
    It only pops up the first time you do it. I’d be curious to know what percentage of the iOS install base uses control center. I have friends who still have flashlight apps on their phones. When I tell them there’s a flashlight in control center they say oh I always for get that’s there and never use it.
  • Reply 24 of 33
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 17,836member
    Yeah this “feature” has a two fold for Apple.  1) It’ll help those -lost cause- users who can’t figure out how to work an iPhone.  And 2) this change will allow all those business monitoring and collecting metrics based on WiFi/ Bluetooth while walking into physical locations  to collect more accurate data.  

    If Cook really cared about it’s user base, he’d put in an option to allow me to change this from default disconnect to off.   It can default to disconnect, sure, but making me go into settings and turn off WiFi and Bluetooth every time I want to airdrop and worse WiFi every time I leave my house— it’s ludicrous.  

    No, what’s ludicrous is your need to do these things. Why?? 
    Some folks still don't trust the Bluetooth beacon tracking many stores do, nor the "old school" wi-fi tracking that's coming back in vogue. Granted it's not supposedly personally identifiable but if you do a transaction or use a loyalty card during that visit I would assume they could then connect you personally to everywhere you went and everywhere you stopped to look in the store leading up to it if that's what they wanted to do. iBeacon has some ways to limit or at least be aware of that tracking mechanism, but not all retailers beacons are iBeacons or rely on a companion store app.

    That may be an additional reason on top of what's already been mentioned to explain why Apple prefers users not to completely turn off Bluetooth or Wi-Fi. Attracting retailers to Apple solutions (ie ApplePay) is an important focus for them. As it's rarely discussed (and retailers and even Apple probably prefer it that way) we tend to forget about the efforts retailers/others make to understand where we go and what interests us.
    https://adexchanger.com/data-driven-thinking/pain-promise-beacons-retail/
    http://www.ibeacon.com/what-is-ibeacon-a-guide-to-beacons/
    edited November 2017
  • Reply 25 of 33

    I turn wifi off only once in a while, so I can see the utility of this particular methodology.  Is it actually turned off "until tomorrow" or is it still going to attempt to reconnect if I move to another wifi network before tomorrow, as I think I saw it initially described?

    It's easy enough to "forget" crappy networks to which I've connected and don't want to anymore, though I have had my phone reconnect to a network I've forgotten on occasion.  Only happens in one place that I've seen, and it doesn't do it consistently.  Haven't figured out what I'm doing wrong there yet.

  • Reply 26 of 33
    mike1mike1 Posts: 1,527member
    dysamoria said:
    This is Apple digging in their heels on this idiotic change to settings that used to be useful.
    I’m not sure why people need to completely turn off WiFi and Bluetooth but if you do can’t you just put the phone in airplane mode? Adding 3D Touch option to WiFi to chose between disconnect and turning the radios off would probably be a good idea but my guess is Apple has data that very few people ever need to turn WiFi or Bluetooth completely off. 
    Airplane mode also kills the cell signal, so no calls and no data.
  • Reply 27 of 33
    gatorguy said:
    Yeah this “feature” has a two fold for Apple.  1) It’ll help those -lost cause- users who can’t figure out how to work an iPhone.  And 2) this change will allow all those business monitoring and collecting metrics based on WiFi/ Bluetooth while walking into physical locations  to collect more accurate data.  

    If Cook really cared about it’s user base, he’d put in an option to allow me to change this from default disconnect to off.   It can default to disconnect, sure, but making me go into settings and turn off WiFi and Bluetooth every time I want to airdrop and worse WiFi every time I leave my house— it’s ludicrous.  

    No, what’s ludicrous is your need to do these things. Why?? 
    Some folks still don't trust the Bluetooth beacon tracking many stores do, nor the "old school" wi-fi tracking that's coming back in vogue. Granted it's not supposedly personally identifiable but if you do a transaction or use a loyalty card during that visit I would assume they could then connect you personally to everywhere you went and everywhere you stopped to look in the store leading up to it if that's what they wanted to do.
    So, unsubstantiated paranoia. Not sure that's the best way for Apple to design their OS features vs more normal use cases which they obviously have in mind with this change.
    randominternetperson
  • Reply 28 of 33
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 17,836member
    gatorguy said:
    Yeah this “feature” has a two fold for Apple.  1) It’ll help those -lost cause- users who can’t figure out how to work an iPhone.  And 2) this change will allow all those business monitoring and collecting metrics based on WiFi/ Bluetooth while walking into physical locations  to collect more accurate data.  

    If Cook really cared about it’s user base, he’d put in an option to allow me to change this from default disconnect to off.   It can default to disconnect, sure, but making me go into settings and turn off WiFi and Bluetooth every time I want to airdrop and worse WiFi every time I leave my house— it’s ludicrous.  

    No, what’s ludicrous is your need to do these things. Why?? 
    Some folks still don't trust the Bluetooth beacon tracking many stores do, nor the "old school" wi-fi tracking that's coming back in vogue. Granted it's not supposedly personally identifiable but if you do a transaction or use a loyalty card during that visit I would assume they could then connect you personally to everywhere you went and everywhere you stopped to look in the store leading up to it if that's what they wanted to do.
    So, unsubstantiated paranoia. Not sure that's the best way for Apple to design their OS features vs more normal use cases which they obviously have in mind with this change.
    Why would you say it's "unsubstantiated"? Honest question.

    If you knew that  "LargeB&M Megamart" or "LocalSally'sDiscountStore" could track your travels in their physical stores without you approving it thru a branded app they offer would that change your opinion? If my understanding is correct you don't have to install a drugstore's store app for the drugstore to gather identifiable visitor data to the retailer's location, in-store aisle browsing, and all the way to the checkout counter. They can "share" data access thru a partner app. 

    For example are you aware that Facebook gives away bluetooth beacons to retailers who agree to work with them on advertising and user tracking?
    http://www.dailytech.com/Facebook+Begins+Mass+Rollout+of+Free+Bluetooth+Business+Beacons/article37391.htm
    I think most Facebook users probably agreed to location services when they installed the Facebook mobile app, and Facebook has partnered with and shares/gathers personal information thru and with some companies I consider to be far more dangerous to our personal privacy than some of the search providers that we're all aware of. 
    https://www.facebook.com/business/a/facebook-partner-categories

    Google also has an in-store tracking program via bluetooth beacons in partnership with various retailers, tho I'm not aware of Google partnering with the likes of Acxiom or Epsilon as Facebook has, but I suspect has a partnership agreement with Mastercard/Visa. Twitter is another with an in-store tracking program developed with Oracle intended to prove the value of an on-line ad by linking to the actual in-store purchase, often made possible by bluetooth beacon tracking. 
    https://www.recode.net/2016/6/14/11926124/facebook-ads-track-store-visits-retail-sales

    Substantiated enough?
    edited November 2017
  • Reply 29 of 33
    Does ApplePay depend on either WiFi or Bluetooth or is NFC a third type of wireless communication?
  • Reply 30 of 33
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 17,836member
    Does ApplePay depend on either WiFi or Bluetooth or is NFC a third type of wireless communication?
    Yup, a third type. NFC or Near-Field Communication...
    edited November 2017
  • Reply 31 of 33
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    Yeah this “feature” has a two fold for Apple.  1) It’ll help those -lost cause- users who can’t figure out how to work an iPhone.  And 2) this change will allow all those business monitoring and collecting metrics based on WiFi/ Bluetooth while walking into physical locations  to collect more accurate data.  

    If Cook really cared about it’s user base, he’d put in an option to allow me to change this from default disconnect to off.   It can default to disconnect, sure, but making me go into settings and turn off WiFi and Bluetooth every time I want to airdrop and worse WiFi every time I leave my house— it’s ludicrous.  

    No, what’s ludicrous is your need to do these things. Why?? 
    Some folks still don't trust the Bluetooth beacon tracking many stores do, nor the "old school" wi-fi tracking that's coming back in vogue. Granted it's not supposedly personally identifiable but if you do a transaction or use a loyalty card during that visit I would assume they could then connect you personally to everywhere you went and everywhere you stopped to look in the store leading up to it if that's what they wanted to do.
    So, unsubstantiated paranoia. Not sure that's the best way for Apple to design their OS features vs more normal use cases which they obviously have in mind with this change.
    Why would you say it's "unsubstantiated"? Honest question.

    If you knew that  "LargeB&M Megamart" or "LocalSally'sDiscountStore" could track your travels in their physical stores without you approving it thru a branded app they offer would that change your opinion? If my understanding is correct you don't have to install a drugstore's store app for the drugstore to gather identifiable visitor data to the retailer's location, in-store aisle browsing, and all the way to the checkout counter. They can "share" data access thru a partner app. 

    For example are you aware that Facebook gives away bluetooth beacons to retailers who agree to work with them on advertising and user tracking?
    http://www.dailytech.com/Facebook+Begins+Mass+Rollout+of+Free+Bluetooth+Business+Beacons/article37391.htm
    I think most Facebook users probably agreed to location services when they installed the Facebook mobile app, and Facebook has partnered with and shares/gathers personal information thru and with some companies I consider to be far more dangerous to our personal privacy than some of the search providers that we're all aware of. 
    https://www.facebook.com/business/a/facebook-partner-categories

    Google also has an in-store tracking program via bluetooth beacons in partnership with various retailers, tho I'm not aware of Google partnering with the likes of Acxiom or Epsilon as Facebook has, but I suspect has a partnership agreement with Mastercard/Visa. Twitter is another with an in-store tracking program developed with Oracle intended to prove the value of an on-line ad by linking to the actual in-store purchase, often made possible by bluetooth beacon tracking. 
    https://www.recode.net/2016/6/14/11926124/facebook-ads-track-store-visits-retail-sales

    Substantiated enough?
    Nope. When you show me proof that iphone users are being tracked without their permission, and without an app, then it’s substantiated. Until then this is paranoid. Your own link explains the facebook beacons work via their app. 

    Further, I fail to see why the Control Center toggles wouldn’t cover this fear-based use case, as toggling them off before walking into the scary grocery store meets the test case as the beacons could not connect. Having to go into Settings to fully disable is still not required. 

    The OP’s argument that he must do so remains ludicrous. 
    edited November 2017
  • Reply 32 of 33
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 17,836member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    Yeah this “feature” has a two fold for Apple.  1) It’ll help those -lost cause- users who can’t figure out how to work an iPhone.  And 2) this change will allow all those business monitoring and collecting metrics based on WiFi/ Bluetooth while walking into physical locations  to collect more accurate data.  

    If Cook really cared about it’s user base, he’d put in an option to allow me to change this from default disconnect to off.   It can default to disconnect, sure, but making me go into settings and turn off WiFi and Bluetooth every time I want to airdrop and worse WiFi every time I leave my house— it’s ludicrous.  

    No, what’s ludicrous is your need to do these things. Why?? 
    Some folks still don't trust the Bluetooth beacon tracking many stores do, nor the "old school" wi-fi tracking that's coming back in vogue. Granted it's not supposedly personally identifiable but if you do a transaction or use a loyalty card during that visit I would assume they could then connect you personally to everywhere you went and everywhere you stopped to look in the store leading up to it if that's what they wanted to do.
    So, unsubstantiated paranoia. Not sure that's the best way for Apple to design their OS features vs more normal use cases which they obviously have in mind with this change.
    Why would you say it's "unsubstantiated"? Honest question.

    If you knew that  "LargeB&M Megamart" or "LocalSally'sDiscountStore" could track your travels in their physical stores without you approving it thru a branded app they offer would that change your opinion? If my understanding is correct you don't have to install a drugstore's store app for the drugstore to gather identifiable visitor data to the retailer's location, in-store aisle browsing, and all the way to the checkout counter. They can "share" data access thru a partner app. 

    For example are you aware that Facebook gives away bluetooth beacons to retailers who agree to work with them on advertising and user tracking?
    http://www.dailytech.com/Facebook+Begins+Mass+Rollout+of+Free+Bluetooth+Business+Beacons/article37391.htm
    I think most Facebook users probably agreed to location services when they installed the Facebook mobile app, and Facebook has partnered with and shares/gathers personal information thru and with some companies I consider to be far more dangerous to our personal privacy than some of the search providers that we're all aware of. 
    https://www.facebook.com/business/a/facebook-partner-categories

    Google also has an in-store tracking program via bluetooth beacons in partnership with various retailers, tho I'm not aware of Google partnering with the likes of Acxiom or Epsilon as Facebook has, but I suspect has a partnership agreement with Mastercard/Visa. Twitter is another with an in-store tracking program developed with Oracle intended to prove the value of an on-line ad by linking to the actual in-store purchase, often made possible by bluetooth beacon tracking. 
    https://www.recode.net/2016/6/14/11926124/facebook-ads-track-store-visits-retail-sales

    Substantiated enough?
    Nope. When you show me proof that iphone users are being tracked without their permission, and without an app, then it’s substantiated. Until then this is paranoid. Your own link explains the facebook beacons work via their app. 

    Further, I fail to see why the Control Center toggles wouldn’t cover this fear-based use case, as toggling them off before walking into the scary grocery store meets the test case as the beacons could not connect. Having to go into Settings to fully disable is still not required. 

    The OP’s argument that he must do so remains ludicrous. 
    Heck I'd consider fear of Google's ads to be ludicrous, but I wouldn't paste anyone else's fear of them as such, instead attempt to educate or ignore as the case may be. In any event there are assuredly educated users who do have a good understanding of some of the tracking mechanisms used by retailers and others and have a legitimate concern about "off" not really being "off" IMHO. 

    I'm a bit baffled that you don't consider Facebook or Google or Twitter or probably dozens of other companies who use location that you approved for one purpose without understanding everything it could be used for is a legitimate concern for some users. Working with box store retailers on shopper analytics and purchase data is unexpected at best when you visit your favorite retailer with Bluetooth that you thought was off and no app for that retailer still sniffing beacons to assist in tracking your movements and perhaps registering what you bought.
    edited November 2017
  • Reply 33 of 33
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 17,836member
    Then we learn today that "location off" doesn't mean 100% off on Android. Seems Google still collects (or was for the last month at least) anonymous cell-tower location data even if the user has turned off location services. The recent trend that "off" doesn't mean "off" is a bit troubling. This is just the kind of  tuff people can point in order to justify their distrust of Google. 

    IMO "off" should ALWAYS mean "off"...
    edited November 2017
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