Video shows 10-year-old unlocking mother's iPhone X via Face ID

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 96
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 19,704member
    Soli said:
    bb-15 said:
    gatorguy said:
    dewme said:
    i’d like to know how long it was from the time it was initially configured to her face. 
    Yes, and I'd also like to see whether the phone was trained to accept the son's face ahead of time. Not trying to defend or refute the claim that the video implies, but I'd like to see the experiment repeated starting at the very first initialization/training steps and proceeding to the son attempting to unlock the phone with the phone never having seen his face before. It's insufficient to reach a conclusion in this case without having any semblance of it being a controlled experiment. 
    All you had to do was read the source article. The phone was reset multiple times to test Face ID initializing and use under different conditions, and where it was assured the phone could not have "seen" her son during the setup. 
    https://www.wired.com/story/10-year-old-face-id-unlocks-mothers-iphone-x/
    Thanks for the link to the original article which said;

    "At WIRED's suggestion, Malik asked his wife to re-register her face to see what would happen. After Sherwani freshly programmed her face into the phone, it no longer allowed Ammar access. To further test it, Sherwani tried registering her face again a few hours later, to replicate the indoor, nighttime lighting conditions in which she first set up her iPhone X. The problem returned;"

    It seems that with what would be considered "poor lighting" that Face ID will not have a clear image of the user's face so that it can be spoofed by a close relative. 
    * What to do imo?
    - As mentioned by Wired; check out if close relatives can unlock the iPhone X. If they can, try re-registering the owner's face in clear lighting conditions. 
    - If not successful, and worried about a relative, turn off Face ID and use a password. 
    - If a password is too inconvenient, consider trading the iPhone X in during the return period for an iPhone 8/8+. 
    - If all of this is too much of a hassle or is too scary, skip the iPhone X and get the iPhone 8/8+.
    I'm surprised that is an issue since it projects IR and captures IR. Why are external visible light sources even needed?
    I made the same observation way back in Post#5. I've no idea why ambient lighting would have any effect one way or the other. 
    Soli
  • Reply 62 of 96
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,076member
    The vast improvements to every aspect of Apple maps since it launched has been stunning.
    i’d like to know how long it was from the time it was initially configured to her face. 
    Pretty much zero: "We were sitting down in our bedroom and were just done setting up the Face IDs, our 10-year-old son walked in anxious to get his hands on the new iPhone X. Right away my wife declared that he was not going to access her phone. Acting exactly as a kid would do when asked to not do something, he picked up her phone and with just a glance got right in." Oh and.. "The parents were shocked. Ten-year-old Ammar thought it was hilarious. "It was funny at first," Malik told WIRED in a phone call a few days later. "But it wasn't really funny afterward. My wife and I text all the time and there might be something we don’t want him to see. Now my wife has to delete her texts when there's something she doesn’t want Ammar to look at." Or, instead of deleting your texts you can maybe not leave your phone lying around when you're not around it? Or, you can make it clear to your kid that he's not supposed to open your phone, and there will be consequences if he does? If he doesn't give a shit and does anyway, points to much bigger problems in the family and his upbringing.
    radarthekatpscooter63
  • Reply 63 of 96
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,340member
    Soli said:
    sflocal said:
    I don't have kids so it's a non-issue for me.
    Me neither. It'll only become a problem for me if my iPhone X is stolen by Brad Pitt¡
    Well in that case, I'll make sure I'm nowhere near Sting or Bruce Willis when I get an iPhoneX. :) /s
    Soli
  • Reply 64 of 96
    Apple is doomed. /s
    edited November 2017
  • Reply 65 of 96
    According to the narration, the incident happened just following the registration of mother’s face. It is very probable that that was the very first unlock after registration. If the owner had unlocked a few times with her own face I guess the incident wouldn’t happen at all. Such narrow timespans (or beginnings, ends, disposals, inits...) are candidate areas for obscure bugs. The incident apparently has all the characteristics of a bug and if so, Apple will release an update for that.
    radarthekat
  • Reply 66 of 96
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,518member
    So the woman said this:
    "We are seeing a flood of videos on YouTube from iPhone users who have gotten their hands on the new iPhone X and are trying to trick the Face ID." 
    How do we know she’s not being paid by someone like Samsung to spread Apple FUD? Or just looking for YouTube hits?
    Dunno. 

    I could be wrong but they don’t seem the sort. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 67 of 96
    Solution: Don’t give your passcode to your kid. Boom!
    radarthekatpscooter63
  • Reply 68 of 96
    The young guy resembles his mother and due to his young age his facical features are still softer and more feminine. Has anyone brought up what happens with adult twins? I don't know if Apple rushed this technology to market to get a leg up on the competition but it's starting to "look" that way. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 69 of 96
    More information and more testing is needed before we can draw any conclusions but this is worrying. I’m not aware that Apple’s Face ID setup instructions warn of any issues or say you mustn’t rely on Face ID for the first few days. Users will reasonably expect it to “just work”. I would be very alarmed if my young kids could unlock my iPhone. 

    Remember Face ID, like Touch ID, is used for many purposes. I rely on Touch ID to prevent unauthorised access to my bank accounts, for example. If banks or other organisations decide Face ID is not sufficiently secure they’ll stop supporting it, Apple will lose credibility and others will soon follow. 

    On the other hand Apple’s claims of a 1 in a million chance of a stranger’s face unlocking your iPhone may be true. That probablility may fall to 1 in 10,000 for close relatives. Test it with 10,000 pairs of close relatives and you’ll probably find two sufficiently alike to fool Face ID. These two may be the one in 10,000 chance. They certainly look very alike. 
    edited November 2017 radarthekat
  • Reply 70 of 96
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,433member
    spice-boy said:
    The young guy resembles his mother and due to his young age his facical features are still softer and more feminine. Has anyone brought up what happens with adult twins? I don't know if Apple rushed this technology to market to get a leg up on the competition but it's starting to "look" that way. 
    This is the most impressive HW and SW for face recognition we've ever seen in a consumer device. They bought PrimeSense 4 years ago this month, so it doesn't seem rushed to me; it's just a limitation of the technology, and one that Apple was very clear about in their presentation.
    edited November 2017 bb-15radarthekatpscooter63tmayGG1
  • Reply 71 of 96
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 1,847member
    I guess Apple tries to make Face ID work for the new user ASAP.  The setting will gather a minimum amount of data in the beginning so the user can start using iPhone X. The strategy is Face ID will gather more data each time user tries to unlock.  Thus after a few unlocks there will be enough data that it will detect a different people does not match all the data it gathered. A rejection will be issued if so. 
    radarthekatspliff monkey
  • Reply 72 of 96
    Interesting! I just wish people should stop suggesting that his was hacked. Maybe Apple should bring the mother-son pair in and use them as the test subject and improve the FaceID. This is the first version of FaceID - I am sure there is room for improvement.
    uktechie
  • Reply 73 of 96
    bb-15bb-15 Posts: 242member
    Soli said:
    bb-15 said:
    gatorguy said:
    dewme said:
    i’d like to know how long it was from the time it was initially configured to her face. 
    Yes, and I'd also like to see whether the phone was trained to accept the son's face ahead of time. Not trying to defend or refute the claim that the video implies, but I'd like to see the experiment repeated starting at the very first initialization/training steps and proceeding to the son attempting to unlock the phone with the phone never having seen his face before. It's insufficient to reach a conclusion in this case without having any semblance of it being a controlled experiment. 
    All you had to do was read the source article. The phone was reset multiple times to test Face ID initializing and use under different conditions, and where it was assured the phone could not have "seen" her son during the setup. 
    https://www.wired.com/story/10-year-old-face-id-unlocks-mothers-iphone-x/
    Thanks for the link to the original article which said;

    "At WIRED's suggestion, Malik asked his wife to re-register her face to see what would happen. After Sherwani freshly programmed her face into the phone, it no longer allowed Ammar access. To further test it, Sherwani tried registering her face again a few hours later, to replicate the indoor, nighttime lighting conditions in which she first set up her iPhone X. The problem returned;"

    It seems that with what would be considered "poor lighting" that Face ID will not have a clear image of the user's face so that it can be spoofed by a close relative. 
    * What to do imo?
    - As mentioned by Wired; check out if close relatives can unlock the iPhone X. If they can, try re-registering the owner's face in clear lighting conditions. 
    - If not successful, and worried about a relative, turn off Face ID and use a password. 
    - If a password is too inconvenient, consider trading the iPhone X in during the return period for an iPhone 8/8+. 
    - If all of this is too much of a hassle or is too scary, skip the iPhone X and get the iPhone 8/8+.
    I'm surprised that is an issue since it projects IR and captures IR. Why are external visible light sources even needed?
    I understand the logic of your argument but information about Face ID indicates that certain light sources interfere with the iPhone X sensors (which have some levels of IR?).
    Before this article, it was known that bright lighting from above (such as from the sun) could degrade Face ID performance. 
    - What this latest article indicates imo is that when a face is registered, the quality of the lighting affects the performance of Face ID. 
    Wired reported that when the mom registered her face in clear, bright light, it allowed for only her to be able to unlock her iPhone X. 
    But it seems the owner registering in low evening light, can degrade the performance of Face ID. 
    edited November 2017 radarthekat
  • Reply 74 of 96
    Solution: Don’t give your passcode to your kid. Boom!
    Also get the notch reduced in half, as the other half is useless.
  • Reply 75 of 96
    Frankly, I’m tired of these stories. I don’t care! I could care less about iphone security. 

    Someone could force my thumb onto my iPhone 7 and open it. No diff. 

    Hell, they just take my wallet from me easier. Do we need to make wallets more secure? Did we ever worry about that before?!
  • Reply 76 of 96
    dysamoria said:
    I love seeing all the Apple fans rushing to blame the users... you know, the target audience for these devices.
    I love seeing someone blame all the Apple fans for not believing, you know, internet.
  • Reply 77 of 96
    Soli said:
    I'm surprised that is an issue since it projects IR and captures IR. Why are external visible light sources even needed?
    Well, obviously theres much more infra-red light under sunlight than just a bunch of dots from a near microscopic sensor. I would imagine the sensor would render allot like monochrome IR film under sunlight and would resemble a “greyscale” image. Without ambient light it would just be a bunch of points with no detail in between. 
    bb-15
  • Reply 78 of 96
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 2,424member
    gatorguy said:
    Soli said:
    I'm surprised that is an issue since it projects IR and captures IR. Why are external visible light sources even needed?
    I made the same observation way back in Post#5. I've no idea why ambient lighting would have any effect one way or the other. 
    Well, of course, visible light sources aren't needed, but if external light sources have a strong IR component, they may alter the sensitivity and selectivity of the Face ID camera. Under differing IR lighting conditions, different subsets of the iPhone-projected IR dots may be sensed or different dots may be given more or less weight in the Face ID model.
  • Reply 79 of 96
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,523member
    Soli said:
    djsherly said:
    If the truth of it is that the FaceID was trained to the kids face somehow, then whatever rules are being set to adapt recognition over time must be adjusted. Apple claimed 1:1000000 false positives, there are enough videos out there to put that in question. 
    They said nothing about "1:1000000 false positives." Their statement is about a statistical average based on randomness due to the sophistication of the HW and SW. Think of it like having a 4-digit PIN. You have 10,000 possibilities, or a 1:10,000 chance, but if that PIN is '0000' or the 4-digit house number of your address, it's probably going to be cracked much sooner because someone will look for common patterns. With Face ID the common pattern is a close DNA match.

    This is also partially true for fingerprints in that the various aspects of a fingerprint are inherited. However, the actually print pattern tends to be very unique, even amongst identical twins, which is why it can be 1:50,000 and potentially be more secure than Face ID with 1:1,000,000.
    Apple better be working on TouchId through the display screen.
  • Reply 80 of 96
    silvergold84silvergold84 Posts: 39unconfirmed, member
    I never mind that people from India would be so incorrect. I know is the land of sundar pichai but.. anyway ask at who have it. It’s work perfectly. I tried many times and it is sure. iPhone X is the best product ever made. When Touch ID is been released by Apple we did read fake news like this. So be smart. Don’t be played. Think different. 
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