Faster LTE speeds expected from Apple's 2018 iPhones with upgraded baseband chips from Int...

AppleInsider

While current iPhones are limited to 2x2 MIMO technology, Apple is now rumored to upgrade to 4x4 MIMO for its 2018 iPhone models, offering users the fastest cellular LTE speeds available yet in an iPhone.

According to analyst Ming-Chi Kuo of KGI Securities, the faster transmission speeds will be made possible because of upgraded baseband chips from Apple suppliers Intel and Qualcomm. Specifically, he said new iPhones set to arrive in the second half of 2018 will feature Intel's XMM 7560 and Qualcomm's SDX20.

In a note to investors on Friday, a copy of which was obtained by AppleInsider, Kuo said he expects that LTE transmission speeds with next year's iPhone lineup will "increase significantly."

Intel is believed to take the lion's share of baseband shipments for late 2018, earning between 70 and 80 percent of orders from Apple, according to Kuo.

Unlike current phones, which commonly support LTE plus 3G connections, the analyst said Apple's next-generation iPhones will support LTE plus LTE connections.

He also believes that Apple eventually wants to "dominate" baseband chip design, building on expertise it has garnered in its own silicon production over the years.

"The entry barriers for baseband chip design are much higher than for application processors, but if Apple can successfully dominate the design of baseband chips, production costs will decline and the iPhone will become much more competitive in the market," he said.

For next year's iPhone lineup, Kuo believes that Apple's flagship model will be a 6.5-inch "iPhone X Plus," taking the edge-to-edge OLED display on the current iPhone X and applying it to the general physical form factor of Apple's current Plus-sized phones.

Because OLED technology remains expensive, and because Apple is apparently looking to adopt Face ID across its entire product lineup, he also believes Apple is working on a 6.1-inch LCD model, which would feature slimmer bezels -- but not an edge-to-edge display -- thanks to the elimination of the home button. He sees this 6.1-inch model being a low-end alternative to the next-generation iPhone X and so-called "iPhone X Plus."

At present, the iPhone 8 boasts a 4.7-inch screen, the iPhone 8 Plus is 5.5 inches, and the OLED iPhone X has a 5.8-inch screen.

[deleted user]

News like this is extremely frustrating and I guess rather pointless considering pretty much every year Apple releases an iPhone claims faster LTE modem speeds . Why it’s frustrating is because as the capabilities get faster network congestion and networks failure to upgrade their infrastructure continues to make LTE speeds get slower. As I said in a separate post somewhere I am on AT&T in Orlando and the LTE speeds have gotten nothing but slower since via my phone even though I have upgraded from the original LTE iPhone that I owned

wood1208

Doesn't matter if phone has Gig+ speed chip inside. Boils down to Cellular network support of that speed and most importantly network bandwidth deployed everywhere to handle for every connection. While plenty will buy OLED 6+" iPhones, hope Apple offers verious form factors LCD version of iPhones with FaceID at better price point.

avon b7

wood1208 said:

Doesn't matter if phone has Gig+ speed chip inside. Boils down to Cellular network support of that speed and most importantly network bandwidth deployed everywhere to handle for every connection. While plenty will buy OLED 6+" iPhones, hope Apple offers verious form factors LCD version of iPhones with FaceID at better price point.

The point is very valid but depends on where you are, how you are served and carrier roll out.

Many carriers are being offered LTE upgrades as a cost effective transitional move before the 5G roll out. 4.5G will happen before 5G but phones will also need more antennas as well as faster modems. In that regard, there is a case for having the technology if it's available on your phone just in case your carrier upgrades your local backbone infrastructure or you have access to it while on the move. There are also pluses for data and voice connection stability via better cell tower handovers etc. These are areas that often get overlooked.

Apart from that, Apple needs to keep abreast of what competitors will be offering next September and with what some are already offering now.


https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/uk/news-press/press-room/press-releases-detailpages/rohde-schwarz-and-huawei-kirin-970-demonstrate-1.2-gbps-press_releases_detailpage_229356-478146.html

If, for example, you happen to be a frequent high speed train traveller you will see the benefits immediately. Also, the ability to 'cling onto a connection' in difficult circumstances (tunnels for example) normally improves from one generation to the next.

cali

Yeah Apple needs to provide it’s own carrier service. Solve so many problems. 

gregg thurman

wood1208 said:

Doesn't matter if phone has Gig+ speed chip inside. Boils down to Cellular network support of that speed and most importantly network bandwidth deployed everywhere to handle for every connection.

Full deployment of 5G LTE isn't scheduled to happen until 2020.  Shipping iPhones capable of utilizing the faster Gigabit protocol before then only makes sense if Apple doesn't want to offer a compelling reason to upgrade in September 2020.  I say September 2020 because full deployment of 5G probably won't occur until 2021 no matter what the telcos say today.  Telcos just don't move that fast.  Besides a 5G standard hasn't even been established yet.

I would be pleasantly surprised if telcos actually did fully deploy 5G in 2020.

rob53

I wonder how many commenters live in areas without hills and mountains restricting cellular access. In the PNW all service is acceptable along I-5 but get away from the freeway and good luck. We need more coverage before faster speeds. 

gregg thurman

avon b7 said:

wood1208 said:

Doesn't matter if phone has Gig+ speed chip inside. Boils down to Cellular network support of that speed and most importantly network bandwidth deployed everywhere to handle for every connection. While plenty will buy OLED 6+" iPhones, hope Apple offers verious form factors LCD version of iPhones with FaceID at better price point.

The point is very valid but depends on where you are, how you are served and carrier roll out.

Many carriers are being offered LTE upgrades as a cost effective transitional move before the 5G roll out. 4.5G will happen before 5G but phones will also need more antennas as well as faster modems. In that regard, there is a case for having the technology if it's available on your phone just in case your carrier upgrades your local backbone infrastructure or you have access to it while on the move. There are also pluses for data and voice connection stability via better cell tower handovers etc. These are areas that often get overlooked.

Apart from that, Apple needs to keep abreast of what competitors will be offering next September and with what some are already offering now.


https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/uk/news-press/press-room/press-releases-detailpages/rohde-schwarz-and-huawei-kirin-970-demonstrate-1.2-gbps-press_releases_detailpage_229356-478146.html

From the article: "The R&S CMW500 in its R&S CMWflexx configuration is the first test platform that offers a downlink carrier aggregation solution for up to 5CC 4x4 MIMO, for protocol, RF and data performance verifications up to 2 Gbps throughput.”

Huawei's Kirin 970 is in test mode, not ready for deployment.  When it is deployed it will be expensive relative to today's 4G chip sets.  That means you won't see it in most, if not nearly all, Android handsets until at least 2020.

Huawei's Kirin 970 is in test mode, not ready for deployment.  When it is deployed it will be expensive relative to today's 4G chip sets.  That means you won't see it in most, if not nearly all, Android handsets until at least 2020.  Scale will be required to bring the Kirin 970 down in price, and the ASP of Android handsets won't generate needed scale for quite some time.

entropys

This is what LTE plus (4GX in Telstra speak) looks like in the street outside a busy bus/railway station.


I can’t wait to see what 5G can do.

edited November 2017

macxpress

cali said:

Yeah Apple needs to provide it’s own carrier service. Solve so many problems. 

I would think Apple may run into legal issues if it did so. I can see the other carriers right now crying foul about something...like Apple is giving precedence to its own carrier for new iPhones or its tuning the iPhone for faster speeds, or down-clocking speeds on Verizon or something stupid like that. I'm not sure this is a road Apple wants to go down. 

mplsp

macxpress said:

cali said:

Yeah Apple needs to provide it’s own carrier service. Solve so many problems. 

I would think Apple may run into legal issues if it did so. I can see the other carriers right now crying foul about something...like Apple is giving precedence to its own carrier for new iPhones or its tuning the iPhone for faster speeds, or down-clocking speeds on Verizon or something stupid like that. I'm not sure this is a road Apple wants to go down. 

Definitely not a road they want to go down. We all love to bash the carriers, and they’ve certainly earned some of it, but the issues surrounding spectrum rights, infrastructure, etc are daunting to say the least and the best Apple could hope for is to maintain its image. The more likely scenario is that there would be significant issues and it’s brand wold be tarnished. Better to let AT&T, Verizon and T-mo take the beating while Apple concentrates on hardware.

avon b7

rob53 said:

I wonder how many commenters live in areas without hills and mountains restricting cellular access. In the PNW all service is acceptable along I-5 but get away from the freeway and good luck. We need more coverage before faster speeds. 

Coverage is designed that way. You should get good coverage on motorways  but it will tail off quickly if you pull off the main roads into areas that are sparsely populated or don't have enough residents to warrant good coverage from towers. Even in cities, coverage is limited. It is not designed to enter your home. You are simply picking up residual coverage from the mapping of street coverage.

martin57

avon b7 said:

wood1208 said:

Doesn't matter if phone has Gig+ speed chip inside. Boils down to Cellular network support of that speed and most importantly network bandwidth deployed everywhere to handle for every connection. While plenty will buy OLED 6+" iPhones, hope Apple offers verious form factors LCD version of iPhones with FaceID at better price point.

The point is very valid but depends on where you are, how you are served and carrier roll out.

Many carriers are being offered LTE upgrades as a cost effective transitional move before the 5G roll out. 4.5G will happen before 5G but phones will also need more antennas as well as faster modems. In that regard, there is a case for having the technology if it's available on your phone just in case your carrier upgrades your local backbone infrastructure or you have access to it while on the move. There are also pluses for data and voice connection stability via better cell tower handovers etc. These are areas that often get overlooked.

Apart from that, Apple needs to keep abreast of what competitors will be offering next September and with what some are already offering now.


https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/uk/news-press/press-room/press-releases-detailpages/rohde-schwarz-and-huawei-kirin-970-demonstrate-1.2-gbps-press_releases_detailpage_229356-478146.html

If, for example, you happen to be a frequent high speed train traveller you will see the benefits immediately. Also, the ability to 'cling onto a connection' in difficult circumstances (tunnels for example) normally improves from one generation to the next.

LTE is very fast (and has been very fast) in my area of Canada too. I’ve never had any major issues with LTE at all ... not with my iPhone 5, nor 6, and not with my iPhone 7. 

I live in the Victoria/Vancouver area of British Columbia, FYI.

-MAS 

avon b7

gregg thurman said:

avon b7 said:

wood1208 said:

Doesn't matter if phone has Gig+ speed chip inside. Boils down to Cellular network support of that speed and most importantly network bandwidth deployed everywhere to handle for every connection. While plenty will buy OLED 6+" iPhones, hope Apple offers verious form factors LCD version of iPhones with FaceID at better price point.

The point is very valid but depends on where you are, how you are served and carrier roll out.

Many carriers are being offered LTE upgrades as a cost effective transitional move before the 5G roll out. 4.5G will happen before 5G but phones will also need more antennas as well as faster modems. In that regard, there is a case for having the technology if it's available on your phone just in case your carrier upgrades your local backbone infrastructure or you have access to it while on the move. There are also pluses for data and voice connection stability via better cell tower handovers etc. These are areas that often get overlooked.

Apart from that, Apple needs to keep abreast of what competitors will be offering next September and with what some are already offering now.


https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/uk/news-press/press-room/press-releases-detailpages/rohde-schwarz-and-huawei-kirin-970-demonstrate-1.2-gbps-press_releases_detailpage_229356-478146.html

From the article: "The R&S CMW500 in its R&S CMWflexx configuration is the first test platform that offers a downlink carrier aggregation solution for up to 5CC 4x4 MIMO, for protocol, RF and data performance verifications up to 2 Gbps throughput.”

Huawei's Kirin 970 is in test mode, not ready for deployment.  When it is deployed it will be expensive relative to today's 4G chip sets.  That means you won't see it in most, if not nearly all, Android handsets until at least 2020.

Huawei's Kirin 970 is in test mode, not ready for deployment.  When it is deployed it will be expensive relative to today's 4G chip sets.  That means you won't see it in most, if not nearly all, Android handsets until at least 2020.  Scale will be required to bring the Kirin 970 down in price, and the ASP of Android handsets won't generate needed scale for quite some time.

I think you are misreading some of the information.

Roger & Schwarz is an equipment specialist providing testing equipment to the industry.

The testing was carried out on Kirin 970s on test boards to certify the performance of the modem.

The Kirin 970 was formerly announced at the beginning of September. The first handset  to use it (Mate 10 series) was announced in mid October and is now shipping worldwide. On the 5th of December second handset will be announced (Honor 10). For MWC2018 (Feb 2018) the next model in the P Series will also use it.

This means millions of handsets are already currently deployed and using it with more to follow before the (possibly early) announcement of the Kirin 980 in 2018.

edited November 2017

gregg thurman

avon b7 said:

gregg thurman said:

avon b7 said:

wood1208 said:

Doesn't matter if phone has Gig+ speed chip inside. Boils down to Cellular network support of that speed and most importantly network bandwidth deployed everywhere to handle for every connection. While plenty will buy OLED 6+" iPhones, hope Apple offers verious form factors LCD version of iPhones with FaceID at better price point.

The point is very valid but depends on where you are, how you are served and carrier roll out.

Many carriers are being offered LTE upgrades as a cost effective transitional move before the 5G roll out. 4.5G will happen before 5G but phones will also need more antennas as well as faster modems. In that regard, there is a case for having the technology if it's available on your phone just in case your carrier upgrades your local backbone infrastructure or you have access to it while on the move. There are also pluses for data and voice connection stability via better cell tower handovers etc. These are areas that often get overlooked.

Apart from that, Apple needs to keep abreast of what competitors will be offering next September and with what some are already offering now.


https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/uk/news-press/press-room/press-releases-detailpages/rohde-schwarz-and-huawei-kirin-970-demonstrate-1.2-gbps-press_releases_detailpage_229356-478146.html

From the article: "The R&S CMW500 in its R&S CMWflexx configuration is the first test platform that offers a downlink carrier aggregation solution for up to 5CC 4x4 MIMO, for protocol, RF and data performance verifications up to 2 Gbps throughput.”

Huawei's Kirin 970 is in test mode, not ready for deployment.  When it is deployed it will be expensive relative to today's 4G chip sets.  That means you won't see it in most, if not nearly all, Android handsets until at least 2020.

Huawei's Kirin 970 is in test mode, not ready for deployment.  When it is deployed it will be expensive relative to today's 4G chip sets.  That means you won't see it in most, if not nearly all, Android handsets until at least 2020.  Scale will be required to bring the Kirin 970 down in price, and the ASP of Android handsets won't generate needed scale for quite some time.

I think you are misreading some of the information.

Roger & Schwarz is an equipment specialist providing testing equipment to the industry.

The testing was carried out on Kirin 970s on test boards to certify the performance of the modem.

The Kirin 970 was formerly announced at the beginning of September. The first handset  to use it (Mate 10 series) was announced in mid October and is now shipping worldwide. On the 5th of December second handset will be announced (Honor 10). For MWC2018 (Feb 2018) the next model in the P Series will also use it.

This means millions of handsets are already currently deployed and using it with more to follow before the (possibly early) announcement of the Kirin 980 in 2018.

I didn't misread it, I was just wrong.  I was quoting the most recent info I was familiar with.  Thanks for the additional info.

Still, some Androids are using Huawei's Kirin 970, but they won't get 5G service until networks are upgraded.  My feeling is that stated 2020 deployment will slide to 2021, just as 4G did (a year later than promised).

analogjack

entropys said:

This is what LTE plus (4GX in Telstra speak) looks like in the street outside a busy bus/railway station.


I can’t wait to see what 5G can do.

Wait till we get 6G plus next gen BrainID that works on EEG, stuff will be downloaded to your phone before you even press the the download button.

mushmash

wemclaughlins said:

News like this is extremely frustrating and I guess rather pointless considering pretty much every year Apple releases an iPhone claims faster LTE modem speeds . Why it’s frustrating is because as the capabilities get faster network congestion and networks failure to upgrade their infrastructure continues to make LTE speeds get slower. As I said in a separate post somewhere I am on AT&T in Orlando and the LTE speeds have gotten nothing but slower since via my phone even though I have upgraded from the original LTE iPhone that I owned

Totally agree, for US customers this is like handing starving children larger dinner plates.

However, in other parts of the world we have the technology and infrastructure to actually make use of it

avon b7

gregg thurman said:

avon b7 said:

gregg thurman said:

avon b7 said:

wood1208 said:

Doesn't matter if phone has Gig+ speed chip inside. Boils down to Cellular network support of that speed and most importantly network bandwidth deployed everywhere to handle for every connection. While plenty will buy OLED 6+" iPhones, hope Apple offers verious form factors LCD version of iPhones with FaceID at better price point.

The point is very valid but depends on where you are, how you are served and carrier roll out.

Many carriers are being offered LTE upgrades as a cost effective transitional move before the 5G roll out. 4.5G will happen before 5G but phones will also need more antennas as well as faster modems. In that regard, there is a case for having the technology if it's available on your phone just in case your carrier upgrades your local backbone infrastructure or you have access to it while on the move. There are also pluses for data and voice connection stability via better cell tower handovers etc. These are areas that often get overlooked.

Apart from that, Apple needs to keep abreast of what competitors will be offering next September and with what some are already offering now.


https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/uk/news-press/press-room/press-releases-detailpages/rohde-schwarz-and-huawei-kirin-970-demonstrate-1.2-gbps-press_releases_detailpage_229356-478146.html

From the article: "The R&S CMW500 in its R&S CMWflexx configuration is the first test platform that offers a downlink carrier aggregation solution for up to 5CC 4x4 MIMO, for protocol, RF and data performance verifications up to 2 Gbps throughput.”

Huawei's Kirin 970 is in test mode, not ready for deployment.  When it is deployed it will be expensive relative to today's 4G chip sets.  That means you won't see it in most, if not nearly all, Android handsets until at least 2020.

Huawei's Kirin 970 is in test mode, not ready for deployment.  When it is deployed it will be expensive relative to today's 4G chip sets.  That means you won't see it in most, if not nearly all, Android handsets until at least 2020.  Scale will be required to bring the Kirin 970 down in price, and the ASP of Android handsets won't generate needed scale for quite some time.

I think you are misreading some of the information.

Roger & Schwarz is an equipment specialist providing testing equipment to the industry.

The testing was carried out on Kirin 970s on test boards to certify the performance of the modem.

The Kirin 970 was formerly announced at the beginning of September. The first handset  to use it (Mate 10 series) was announced in mid October and is now shipping worldwide. On the 5th of December second handset will be announced (Honor 10). For MWC2018 (Feb 2018) the next model in the P Series will also use it.

This means millions of handsets are already currently deployed and using it with more to follow before the (possibly early) announcement of the Kirin 980 in 2018.

I didn't misread it, I was just wrong.  I was quoting the most recent info I was familiar with.  Thanks for the additional info.

Still, some Androids are using Huawei's Kirin 970, but they won't get 5G service until networks are upgraded.  My feeling is that stated 2020 deployment will slide to 2021, just as 4G did (a year later than promised).

I think the same as you. Unless you happen to live in a pilot city or somewhere like Hong Kong which has been earmarked for an early rollout you will probably have to wait.

Seeing as the specification hasn't been finalised yet and then operators have to find the cash to upgrade their backbone infrastructure, roll out times could slip somewhat with regards to current estimates. Then, the bigger cities will be served first, provided the country you live in isn't a techno laggard.

4.5G seems like the most probable next step but phones will need to be upgraded to be able to squeeze the most out of them.

Personally, I see 5G as more of an advantage for devices that aren't necessarily phones. A way for general appliances to have their own network connections.

I probably read it wrong but I remember an article speaking about 5G and salmon farming. The idea was to have a sensor on each fish and use 5G to transmit information about lice levels in pens. When it arrives, the door will open to many more ideas than we can currently imagine.

edited November 2017

dhawkins541

With att recently when traveling to Portland I pulled 210mbps in one area and averaged around 80 to 115 in many areas to me that’s fast enough. What I really want from them is coverage in the few places I go camping and have absolutely nothing for service.