Apple's Face ID with attention detection fooled by $200 mask

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 94
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,546member
    cropr said:
    macxpress said:
    So are people going to walk around wearing $200 masks of me, somehow getting the exact dimensions of my face? I think this is kinda stupid and worthless. Apparently, the Vietnamese have nothing better to do.
    Maybe not ordinary people like you and me but e.g. law enforcement might consider the investment to crack iPhones of suspects. 
    They can consider it all they want....whether or not its legal to do so is I think the next topic of discussion. I for one would say its not legal to make a mask of someone. If its a terrorist attack suspect...most don't have a face in the end to do anything with if you know what I mean. 
  • Reply 62 of 94
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 6,302member
    Speaking of science where’s the peer review on this claim? Where’s the duplicated, confirmed experimental evidence that this actually works? Why is it only one group of hackers that can do this? Where’s the Beef?!
    StrangeDayskiltedgreenjensonbpscooter63
  • Reply 63 of 94
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 1,523member
    You can easily do the same with 2D(not even 3D) finger print mask and fool to unlock the phone. One can unlock phone's touchid or faceid while the person is in deep sleep. So, all these videos are useless.
  • Reply 64 of 94
    croprcropr Posts: 826member
    macxpress said:
    cropr said:
    macxpress said:
    So are people going to walk around wearing $200 masks of me, somehow getting the exact dimensions of my face? I think this is kinda stupid and worthless. Apparently, the Vietnamese have nothing better to do.
    Maybe not ordinary people like you and me but e.g. law enforcement might consider the investment to crack iPhones of suspects. 
    They can consider it all they want....whether or not its legal to do so is I think the next topic of discussion. I for one would say its not legal to make a mask of someone. If its a terrorist attack suspect...most don't have a face in the end to do anything with if you know what I mean. 
    Wow a legal expert that knows for sure that Madame Tussauds is running an illegal business
  • Reply 65 of 94
    The guy is a security adviser and he is saying business leaders should not use it. Those people usually publish their photos on corporate websites, etc. It might be worth spend the money on a mask to gather their information.

    As for the average person, it should not be a concern.......unless they do something wrong and law enforcement does this to them.
  • Reply 66 of 94
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,899member
    Even if this an authentic hack, it's utterly stupid.  Someone has to get your phone, get exact measurements of your face, print a mask, spend hundreds of dollars (after spending thousands on equipment) to do...what? Clean out my bank account? Good luck.  In fact, if this demo convinces the right people Face ID can be fooled, it's just more ammunition in challenging financial transactions that are fraudulent.  
  • Reply 67 of 94
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 1,831member
    georgie01 said:

    "About 2 weeks ago, we recommended that only very important people such as national leaders, large corporation leaders, billionaires, etc. should be cautious when using Face ID," said Ngo Tuan Anh, VP of cyber security at Bkav. "However, with this research result, we have to raise the severity level to every casual users: Face ID is not secure enough to be used in business transactions."
    This is revealing about Bkav. They certainly aren’t providing a public service, and their lack of transparency and overstatement of the scope of the security issue is suspicious. And $200? Right... As long as you have already invested in a sophisticated 3D scanner and a 3D printer and whatever other equipment is necessary and have the time to invest in developing a ‘hack’ and also have the means to get such a scan of the person who’s phone you want to get into. That doesn’t cost $200, and this company knows it. So what’s their motive in trying to make FaceID seem so insecure? What do they have to gain from it?
    No criminal is going to go through all that, why? You grab the phone and put it in front of the real persons face right then and there.
  • Reply 68 of 94
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,240member
    cropr said:
    macxpress said:
    cropr said:
    macxpress said:
    So are people going to walk around wearing $200 masks of me, somehow getting the exact dimensions of my face? I think this is kinda stupid and worthless. Apparently, the Vietnamese have nothing better to do.
    Maybe not ordinary people like you and me but e.g. law enforcement might consider the investment to crack iPhones of suspects. 
    They can consider it all they want....whether or not its legal to do so is I think the next topic of discussion. I for one would say its not legal to make a mask of someone. If its a terrorist attack suspect...most don't have a face in the end to do anything with if you know what I mean. 
    Wow a legal expert that knows for sure that Madame Tussauds is running an illegal business
    1) Those people have clearly given permission and set through hours of photos and molds. And in the last decades probably also 3D mapping.

    2) Have you seen their results? I think I could make a better model out of mashed potatoes (but I'lll never know since I need all I can get to make a replica of Devil' Tower). 


    kiltedgreen
  • Reply 69 of 94
    rob53 said:
    I wish people would use standard test practices instead of having both the test mask and the real face in the room in the same general area at the same time.
    Reminds me of how some fools in the past were claiming they could unlock an iPhone via some convoluted set of actions with the iPhone UI, while missing the fact that they were scanning their finger and unlocking the phone in the process. :D
  • Reply 70 of 94
    kimberly said:
    iPhone owner: “So, you can unlock my iPhone using a mask that cost you just $200 to create?  How does that work?”

    Bkav:  “Yes, it’s really quite simple.  Just register FaceID, then immediately hand over your iPhone to us, before you use the iPhone to refine the FaceID data set, and also stand still while we take some detailed photos of your face under controlled lighting conditions.  Then go home and come back tomorrow and we’ll show you the trick.  Oh, and in the meantime please don’t use Find My Phone to lock us out, okay?”

    And... GO!
    As a moderator, consider posts with racist comments like the example below (final sentence).
    macxpress said:
    So are people going to walk around wearing $200 masks of me, somehow getting the exact dimensions of my face? I think this is kinda stupid and worthless. Apparently, the Vietnamese have nothing better to do.

    I have just learned that Vietnamese is a race. Smarter every day, I guess.
    macplusplusSpamSandwich
  • Reply 71 of 94
    Soli said:
    rob53 said:
    Weird, after scanning his face without actually looking at the camera (his eyes were glancing down), the lock icon was unlocked when he first tried having the mask unlock it, then the lock changed to locked and he said it was unlocked. 

    I wish people would use standard test practices instead of having both the test mask and the real face in the room in the same general area at the same time. If I was running this test, I'd encode my face in another room, test to make sure it unlocks, then restart the phone, enter my pin, lock the phone then unlock with my face again to make sure the normal, entire process works. 

    Once this is done I'd lock the phone and give the phone to a different person who takes it into a separate room and tries unlocking it with the mask. 

    I would think Apple's algorithms would notice a 2D print of the eyes and the lack of realistic 3D around the eyes. A person can not make the exact "face" twice in a row so the software should sense the lack of change in facial muscles from one attempt to the next. Until someone actually runs a proper test, I will still believe in Apple's FaceID product.
    I agree. I don't have any reason to think this test was faked but they sure leave don't do a great job of removing all possible doubt when they're trying to show that a biometric can be fooled.
    Because it was never the case that people in the past sought attention by claiming things that were hard/impossible to do.
    edited November 2017 macplusplus
  • Reply 72 of 94
    vahancouvervahancouver Posts: 10unconfirmed, member
    I just want him to tell us how many hundred times he tried to unlock the iPhone X before this video to get this mask just right! 
    Sure it’s easy for him to try and fail as many times as he wants and then unlock with his real face in order not to surpass the security passcode lock after 5 failed attempts. 

    Good luck with doing it with a random persons iPhone X even if you have all the pictures of theirs in the world. 
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 73 of 94
    dewmedewme Posts: 1,623member
    The attempts to question the security and robustness of Apple's Face ID will continue until every other smartphone maker and reseller who is not in Apple's distribution channel has a competing feature to sell in their products, probably circa 2018 or later. At that point in the evolution of imitative art, every non-Apple Face ID knock-off will be touted as the greatest advance in facial recognition technology ever developed by mankind, a must-have, nearly life sustaining feature, and even more so because it's miraculously emanating from the amazing super brains of Google, Samsung, Microsoft, or Amazon engineers, scientists, and extremely gifted managers.  We've seen this story before, whether it's all-touch phones withouts keyboards, use of gorilla glass, smart voice assistants, jettisoning card slots and headphone jacks, and App Stores - whenever Apple has (even temporary) exclusivity on any innovative capability then it must be seriously derided as flawed because, umm, it's Apple and all Apple does is grossly inflate the prices on mediocre technology that their hipster employees scraped up from underneath festering road kill when it's the real innovators like Google, Samsung, Microsoft, and Amazon who are creating improbable magic in their gilded research labs overpopulated with true, and very serious, perfect innovators the likes of which the world has never known.  So yeah, Apple's Face ID must obviously suck and is a horrible idea ... but rest assured that Google's Pixel Face, Samsung's Sammy Face, Microsoft's Surface Face, and Amazon's Echo Face will finally deliver the much needed facial recognition technology that will deliver what Apple's grossly premature and seriously flawed technology failed to do - which is having their own brand name on it.    
    edited November 2017 radarthekatkiltedgreen
  • Reply 74 of 94
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,465member
    matt45 said:
    I'll just leave this here:

    https://findbiometrics.com/fingerprint-cards-phone-bkav-408164/

    someone is smarting from FaceID
    Yep, I think this is the motive behind all this "work" to discredit Face ID. 
    pscooter63
  • Reply 75 of 94
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 2,531moderator
    kimberly said:

    As a moderator, consider posts with racist comments like the example below (final sentence).
    macxpress said:
    So are people going to walk around wearing $200 masks of me, somehow getting the exact dimensions of my face? I think this is kinda stupid and worthless. Apparently, the Vietnamese have nothing better to do.

    lol I don't see how that's racist. are you sure you know what 'racist' means? 
    Seems we’ve reached the apex of racial sensitivity.  At least I hope so.  But let’s be sure, let’s look it up.

    Racism

    1. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

    2. belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

    Nope, nothing to suggest the sentence represented racism.  Carry on.
    edited November 2017 macxpressanton zuykovSpamSandwich
  • Reply 76 of 94
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,209member
    kimberly said:
    As a moderator, consider posts with racist comments like the example below (final sentence).
    macxpress said:
    So are people going to walk around wearing $200 masks of me, somehow getting the exact dimensions of my face? I think this is kinda stupid and worthless. Apparently, the Vietnamese have nothing better to do.

    In what way is that a racist comment by @macexpress?!

    Sheesh... give it a rest. 

    (I see that lots of others had a similar reaction to the post; still, I’ll leave mine here)
    Considering Kimberly's silence, she checked herself - and her ignorance - out the door.

    The sad part is that there are way too many people out there like her contaminating Internet forums.
    anton zuykovmacxpress
  • Reply 77 of 94
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,736member
    100% sure they trained this pos mask with the god damn pin like every single example of the same thing.

    If I were Apple I'd ask those piece of crap to come in with all their god damn equipment and replicate it under media scrutiny, I bet the little turds would shrink and shrivel away.

    Unless they publish the whole procedure and have someone reproduce it, that's what I'm calling them, sacks of shit trolls who are protecting their piece of shit fingerprint cards.

    The more I read about them, the more I think they would be sued if they showed their fracking  face in the US or anywhere with good libel laws.
    radarthekat
  • Reply 78 of 94
    sflocal said:
    kimberly said:
    As a moderator, consider posts with racist comments like the example below (final sentence).
    macxpress said:
    So are people going to walk around wearing $200 masks of me, somehow getting the exact dimensions of my face? I think this is kinda stupid and worthless. Apparently, the Vietnamese have nothing better to do.

    In what way is that a racist comment by @macexpress?!

    Sheesh... give it a rest. 

    (I see that lots of others had a similar reaction to the post; still, I’ll leave mine here)
    Considering Kimberly's silence, she checked herself - and her ignorance - out the door.

    The sad part is that there are way too many people out there like her contaminating Internet forums.
    Thankfully. It has gotten pretty pathetic how everything is racist these days. That comment by @macexpress wasn't even remotely close to being racist. 
    anton zuykovpscooter63
  • Reply 79 of 94
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,240member
    sflocal said:
    kimberly said:
    As a moderator, consider posts with racist comments like the example below (final sentence).
    macxpress said:
    So are people going to walk around wearing $200 masks of me, somehow getting the exact dimensions of my face? I think this is kinda stupid and worthless. Apparently, the Vietnamese have nothing better to do.

    In what way is that a racist comment by @macexpress?!

    Sheesh... give it a rest. 

    (I see that lots of others had a similar reaction to the post; still, I’ll leave mine here)
    Considering Kimberly's silence, she checked herself - and her ignorance - out the door.

    The sad part is that there are way too many people out there like her contaminating Internet forums.
    Thankfully. It has gotten pretty pathetic how everything is racist these days. That comment by @macexpress wasn't even remotely close to being racist. 
    I would argue that it also wasn't bigoted or prejudice, but we probably need to accept that the original meaning of racist has applied to the bigotry superset for many years now.

    Of course, we don't have to use these terms in such a lose fashion when there are more accurate terms available, but I do think we should accept the malleability of language and how others are using the terms.


    edited November 2017
  • Reply 80 of 94
    sflocal said:
    kimberly said:
    As a moderator, consider posts with racist comments like the example below (final sentence).
    macxpress said:
    So are people going to walk around wearing $200 masks of me, somehow getting the exact dimensions of my face? I think this is kinda stupid and worthless. Apparently, the Vietnamese have nothing better to do.

    In what way is that a racist comment by @macexpress?!

    Sheesh... give it a rest. 

    (I see that lots of others had a similar reaction to the post; still, I’ll leave mine here)
    Considering Kimberly's silence, she checked herself - and her ignorance - out the door.

    The sad part is that there are way too many people out there like her contaminating Internet forums.
    Thankfully. It has gotten pretty pathetic how everything is racist these days. That comment by @macexpress wasn't even remotely close to being racist. 
    Yup. And there was a real racist heated discussion going on unchecked in the thread about "Net Neutrality" few days back.
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