I don't find chip cards to be slow. ... Privacy issues aside, Apple Pay seems more cumbersome. (And, I'm a tech guy... imagine the average non-technical user.)
When ApplePay is implemented properly all it requires is holding the phone near the reader for a moment after Touch/FaceID authorisation and then the payment is complete. It’s incredibly fast and easy.
When you have a stupid merchant who badly implements ApplePay and still wants you to go through the whole touchpad process including entering a pin, then ApplePay is annoying and slow, like a credit card.
I’m guessing you’ve only used the latter.
You have to look at the poster making the comment...
ApplePay is super easy with the watch. The best is at a drive-thru, where you don't need to fumble to get the wallet out of a coat - just double tap and reach over to the terminal the attendant is holding. Done.
I am realistic though - if you already have your wallet out and just reach to get a credit card with NFC, then it is as fast as the phone. Not as secure, but just as fast. The time savings is when you have your phone out and wallet is not (and most people seem to be on their phone these days). Or you don't have your wallet on you at all when going out for a run or stroll...
Actually, the watch at a drive through is interesting. I suspect at your local drive through, where the window is on the left, I would have problems using the watch, since I'm left handed, so wear it on my right wrist. On the other hand, here I would be OK since the drive through window would be on the right of the car. Of course, it means that most people would be inconvenienced paying with the watch, and I just happen to be lucky.
Anyway, I keep getting funny looks from people when I pick up the terminal and hold it to my wrist. It's at least easier than trying to hold my wrist to the terminal when it's fixed in place. But I still find waving my wrist in front of scanners to register my loyalty card annoying. Especially as you need to have your wrist clear, and I wear long sleeves.
Refusing a 'payment method' is just daft, arrogant and shortsighted to say the least.
Stupid CEO!
>90% of companies where the founder dies and is replaced by professional CEO's eventually go out of business. Apple, Boeing. Ford, McDonalds, etc., are the exceptions and not the rule. 85% of Fortune 500 companies in 1950 are now out of business. Why Americans continue to show such reverence (and high salaries) to CEO's is beyond me!
Best
Is this a real stat? If so, I expect that much/most of the decline is due to mergers rather than failures.
I don't find chip cards to be slow. ... Privacy issues aside, Apple Pay seems more cumbersome. (And, I'm a tech guy... imagine the average non-technical user.)
When ApplePay is implemented properly all it requires is holding the phone near the reader for a moment after Touch/FaceID authorisation and then the payment is complete. It’s incredibly fast and easy.
When you have a stupid merchant who badly implements ApplePay and still wants you to go through the whole touchpad process including entering a pin, then ApplePay is annoying and slow, like a credit card.
I’m guessing you’ve only used the latter.
You have to look at the poster making the comment...
ApplePay is super easy with the watch. The best is at a drive-thru, where you don't need to fumble to get the wallet out of a coat - just double tap and reach over to the terminal the attendant is holding. Done.
I am realistic though - if you already have your wallet out and just reach to get a credit card with NFC, then it is as fast as the phone. Not as secure, but just as fast. The time savings is when you have your phone out and wallet is not (and most people seem to be on their phone these days). Or you don't have your wallet on you at all when going out for a run or stroll...
Unless you're left handed like I am. I tried that once and almost pulled a muscle. (Try reaching your right wrist to the window.).
I don't find chip cards to be slow. ... Privacy issues aside, Apple Pay seems more cumbersome. (And, I'm a tech guy... imagine the average non-technical user.)
When ApplePay is implemented properly all it requires is holding the phone near the reader for a moment after Touch/FaceID authorisation and then the payment is complete. It’s incredibly fast and easy.
When you have a stupid merchant who badly implements ApplePay and still wants you to go through the whole touchpad process including entering a pin, then ApplePay is annoying and slow, like a credit card.
I’m guessing you’ve only used the latter.
You have to look at the poster making the comment...
ApplePay is super easy with the watch. The best is at a drive-thru, where you don't need to fumble to get the wallet out of a coat - just double tap and reach over to the terminal the attendant is holding. Done.
I am realistic though - if you already have your wallet out and just reach to get a credit card with NFC, then it is as fast as the phone. Not as secure, but just as fast. The time savings is when you have your phone out and wallet is not (and most people seem to be on their phone these days). Or you don't have your wallet on you at all when going out for a run or stroll...
Actually, the watch at a drive through is interesting. I suspect at your local drive through, where the window is on the left, I would have problems using the watch, since I'm left handed, so wear it on my right wrist. On the other hand, here I would be OK since the drive through window would be on the right of the car. Of course, it means that most people would be inconvenienced paying with the watch, and I just happen to be lucky.
Anyway, I keep getting funny looks from people when I pick up the terminal and hold it to my wrist. It's at least easier than trying to hold my wrist to the terminal when it's fixed in place. But I still find waving my wrist in front of scanners to register my loyalty card annoying. Especially as you need to have your wrist clear, and I wear long sleeves.
I used it yesterday. It worked really well for how I shop at Target ... using Redcard and Cartwheel. Right now it's not really a payment platform. It's more of a loyalty platform since it's only open to Redcard users. There's no reason to use it if you don't have a Redcard. Prior to yesterday, at checkout I would have to wait until all my items were scanned, then present my Cartwheel QR code and then use the chip reader with my Redcard and enter my PIN. Yesterday, it was scan the QR code and done. Payment and all coupons and discounts were applied at once. It was super fast!
Right, but if they used ApplePay, you could do exactly the same thing by just holding your phone or watch to the terminal (without finding and opening the Target app).
Refusing a payment method is about as stupid to refuse to buy at a shop because of a payment method
Nope. I build e-commerce sites and it's critical to have as many payment methods as you can... if you care about making sales. I've not purchased products because of this (for example, if you only have small business PayPal, but not a CC and they only offer CC). The customer wins on this one, and should.
georgie01 said: When ApplePay is implemented properly all it requires is holding the phone near the reader for a moment after Touch/FaceID authorisation and then the payment is complete. It’s incredibly fast and easy.
When you have a stupid merchant who badly implements ApplePay and still wants you to go through the whole touchpad process including entering a pin, then ApplePay is annoying and slow, like a credit card.
I’m guessing you’ve only used the latter.
With my chip debit or CC, I just hold it near the terminal, and it's similarly just done. I don't even have to put my finger on TouchID or bring the phone up to my face. I've yet to use ApplePay, as setting it up seems to be more hassle than just simply tapping a card (that I know will work).
StrangeDays said: You’re clueless about why people prefer AP. Hint: it’s not about being “lazy” as you claim. The speed of AP is just an added benefit, it’s the security that is tantamount. Target sucks at security as they have proven.
This is what will eventually motivate me to setup ApplePay, I suppose. If you pay with ApplePay, does this mean the vendor can't attach you (as a person) to what you purchased? (So long as you don't also use a loyalty card, give them your phone #, etc.)
StrangeDays said: Yes by growing even beyond its size and success when Jobs was alive. Apple is and continues to be the most successful public company in the history of humanity. More so under Cook than Jobs. Your DOOM scenario is just concern-troll fantasy.
And no, it doesn’t take more time to figure out if AP works, it takes half a second to look for the NFC logo and/or waive your phone. Or to simply ask “Do yo accept tap to pay?” Scary stuff I know. Sounds to me you’re just afraid of new things. It happens.
Until they aren't anymore.
Well, I've probably been using 'tap to pay' longer than you. The difference is that I know it will work if I tap my debit/CC vs it maybe not working with ApplePay.
rob55 said: In my personal experience, ApplePay is significantly faster. At the supermarket yesterday, I held up my phone for what must have been (no exaggeration) no more than a second or two. Since I have my debit card as the default, I had to deal with the PIN step on the terminal (I just hit enter), then tapped the "Yes" button on the screen, and I was done. The cashier was just standing there waiting (presumably for a longer chip-and-pin transaction), until she realized that the payment process was complete, and she had to hit a button and hand me my receipt. This is the norm in the places where I regularly use ApplePay. It's that fast. My chip-and-pin experience at the Home Depot last week took at least three to four times as long.
Additionally, I don't randomly try ApplePay when I go to new stores hoping it will work. I simply ask if they accept contactless payments. When I get that blank stare like they have no clue what contactless even is, I simply say, "You know, ApplePay, Android Pay." At that point, they usually say one of three things; yes it works, I don't know, or No it doesn't. I almost never stand there waving my phone around in a futile attempt to get ApplePay to magically work. I did once, but that was only because it initially worked when the retailer got new credit card terminals, and then it suddenly stopped working for a couple of months until they got their act together and fixed it. I'm also vocal about suggesting that they deploy the feature, especially when they have new credit card terminals that should support the feature.
But all that aside, how can you even compare ApplePay to alternative methods when you haven't even set it up on your phone to actually give it try? That was a rhetorical question, you need not answer.
I'm guessing you guys are in the USA, with antiquated payment systems. We've been using contactless payment systems for years. So, I don't have to ask if they have contactless payment... they do. The question is if this includes ApplePay or not... and since most people don't use it, they might not know. Meanwhile, the line is being held up.
And, yes, I should set it up and see. I'm just trying to imagine how ApplePay could *possibly* be faster. I guess with an Apple Watch (which I don't have) I don't have to reach into my pocket. But, that's the only time savings I see. ApplePay will generally take an extra step, as you have to do TouchID or FaceID. (Note, this won't apply to purchases over a certain amount, as then you have to do a PIN, etc.)
I've never seen any relevance whatsoever to Target. There's nothing unique about them. The only thing I ever remember buying at Target was a few jugs of Tide laundry detergent they had on sale a few years ago.
They have a reasonably good product line for a lower-end store. That has been the appeal.
mrboba1 said: Stop with all the store apps. I don't even like using the grocery/drug store VIP cards, much less an app that clutters my phone.
Yea, or at least give something of value that I might be willing to trade my information for. For example, up here one grocery store now has an app where you can shop and then just schedule the pickup window. If you save an hour of my time, I might trade that in exchange for my shopping habits. But, IMO, it needs to be more compelling than... you'll get a few points that you might one day save some money with.
brucemc said: ApplePay is super easy with the watch. The best is at a drive-thru, where you don't need to fumble to get the wallet out of a coat - just double tap and reach over to the terminal the attendant is holding. Done.
Yes, that's an advantage of the Watch. But, what if you get there and tap the Watch and it doesn't work. Then you have to dig for your wallet, instead of (hopefully) having done it already. Of course, on the other hand, maybe if a couple seconds really matters this much, there's something else wrong.
I don't see what the big deal is? I added my RedCard to the app yesterday, and will try it out tomorrow when I make the trip to Target for some supplies. I don't see how this is any less convenient than any other store I shop at (and in many ways its more convenient). I frequently shop at Food Lion, Kroger, Harris Teeter, and I have to scan my loyalty card (which is on my keychain) to get discounts. Most of them also have an Apple Wallet plugin as well, so I can use my iPhone if I wish for that portion of checkout.
What's the problem with Target's solution? I have my iPhone X ready, they scan my items, and the last item they scan is my phone and I'm done. I usually have coupons and Cartwheel discounts loaded up anyway, so this makes it all available in one step. Seems fine to me.
I don't find chip cards to be slow. ... Privacy issues aside, Apple Pay seems more cumbersome. (And, I'm a tech guy... imagine the average non-technical user.)
When ApplePay is implemented properly all it requires is holding the phone near the reader for a moment after Touch/FaceID authorisation and then the payment is complete. It’s incredibly fast and easy.
When you have a stupid merchant who badly implements ApplePay and still wants you to go through the whole touchpad process including entering a pin, then ApplePay is annoying and slow, like a credit card.
I’m guessing you’ve only used the latter.
You have to look at the poster making the comment...
ApplePay is super easy with the watch. The best is at a drive-thru, where you don't need to fumble to get the wallet out of a coat - just double tap and reach over to the terminal the attendant is holding. Done.
I am realistic though - if you already have your wallet out and just reach to get a credit card with NFC, then it is as fast as the phone. Not as secure, but just as fast. The time savings is when you have your phone out and wallet is not (and most people seem to be on their phone these days). Or you don't have your wallet on you at all when going out for a run or stroll...
Actually, the watch at a drive through is interesting. I suspect at your local drive through, where the window is on the left, I would have problems using the watch, since I'm left handed, so wear it on my right wrist. On the other hand, here I would be OK since the drive through window would be on the right of the car. Of course, it means that most people would be inconvenienced paying with the watch, and I just happen to be lucky.
Anyway, I keep getting funny looks from people when I pick up the terminal and hold it to my wrist. It's at least easier than trying to hold my wrist to the terminal when it's fixed in place. But I still find waving my wrist in front of scanners to register my loyalty card annoying. Especially as you need to have your wrist clear, and I wear long sleeves.
Good point. I just need to move to the UK.
Or Australia.
Or Samoa just changed over, you could start a trend.
I used it yesterday. It worked really well for how I shop at Target ... using Redcard and Cartwheel. Right now it's not really a payment platform. It's more of a loyalty platform since it's only open to Redcard users. There's no reason to use it if you don't have a Redcard. Prior to yesterday, at checkout I would have to wait until all my items were scanned, then present my Cartwheel QR code and then use the chip reader with my Redcard and enter my PIN. Yesterday, it was scan the QR code and done. Payment and all coupons and discounts were applied at once. It was super fast!
Right, but if they used ApplePay, you could do exactly the same thing by just holding your phone or watch to the terminal (without finding and opening the Target app).
That's true. Assuming the Redcard and Cartwheel both worked with ApplePay. I haven't used a rewards/loyalty card with ApplePay yet, I've only use my credit. On the other hand, the Target app is already open and active on my phone when I'm in Target since I use it for my shopping list and finding Cartwheel deals.
In general, I use ApplePay when I remember to do it and it seems to work fine. But it hasn't been a game changer for me.
Refusing a 'payment method' is just daft, arrogant and shortsighted to say the least.
Stupid CEO!
>90% of companies where the founder dies and is replaced by professional CEO's eventually go out of business. Apple, Boeing. Ford, McDonalds, etc., are the exceptions and not the rule. 85% of Fortune 500 companies in 1950 are now out of business. Why Americans continue to show such reverence (and high salaries) to CEO's is beyond me!
Best
Is this a real stat? If so, I expect that much/most of the decline is due to mergers rather than failures.
Yes...both reported in the WSJ. Mergers, I'm guessing in the last 20 years perhaps. I think it's more CEO's running the companies into the ground.
I’m going to add a belated comment. For those that haven’t set up Apple Pay yet (as well as Apple Pay Cash), know that AP is about SECURITY first, then speed. Your iPhone and Watch become a second and third iteration of your debit/credit cards WITH THEIR OWN DEVICE ACCOUNT NUMBERS. Look deep into your wallet, you’ll see that 4 digit number for your respective devices (for Watch, open Wallet and Apple Pay). And notice on the receipt of whatever vendor you’ve paid, the method of payment is not the same last number of your plastic card. The transaction is anonymous when you DON’T use your plastic cards. That’s a SECURE payment. It was also darn quick. The people in line behind you thank you 😎
I’m going to add a belated comment. For those that haven’t set up Apple Pay yet (as well as Apple Pay Cash), know that AP is about SECURITY first, then speed. Your iPhone and Watch become a second and third iteration of your debit/credit cards WITH THEIR OWN DEVICE ACCOUNT NUMBERS. Look deep into your wallet, you’ll see that 4 digit number for your respective devices (for Watch, open Wallet and Apple Pay). And notice on the receipt of whatever vendor you’ve paid, the method of payment is not the same last number of your plastic card. The transaction is anonymous when you DON’T use your plastic cards. That’s a SECURE payment. It was also darn quick. The people in line behind you thank you 😎
Yea, that's one aspect that will eventually move me to sign up, I suppose. And, I'm sure the people in line behind me won't mind if it takes a few seconds longer to do it on the iPhone than simply tapping my card.
The bigger problem, is just like tapping the card, not ever place accepts that. Even fewer will accept Apple Pay. So, after trying the iPhone and it not working, then there is the extra time to get out my wallet, pull out the card, and go though that process. When I tap my card, it's already out, so if it doesn't work, I just insert the chip and then it does.
Comments
Actually, the watch at a drive through is interesting. I suspect at your local drive through, where the window is on the left, I would have problems using the watch, since I'm left handed, so wear it on my right wrist. On the other hand, here I would be OK since the drive through window would be on the right of the car. Of course, it means that most people would be inconvenienced paying with the watch, and I just happen to be lucky.
Anyway, I keep getting funny looks from people when I pick up the terminal and hold it to my wrist. It's at least easier than trying to hold my wrist to the terminal when it's fixed in place. But I still find waving my wrist in front of scanners to register my loyalty card annoying. Especially as you need to have your wrist clear, and I wear long sleeves.
With my chip debit or CC, I just hold it near the terminal, and it's similarly just done. I don't even have to put my finger on TouchID or bring the phone up to my face.
I've yet to use ApplePay, as setting it up seems to be more hassle than just simply tapping a card (that I know will work).
This is what will eventually motivate me to setup ApplePay, I suppose. If you pay with ApplePay, does this mean the vendor can't attach you (as a person) to what you purchased? (So long as you don't also use a loyalty card, give them your phone #, etc.)
Until they aren't anymore.
Well, I've probably been using 'tap to pay' longer than you.
I'm guessing you guys are in the USA, with antiquated payment systems. We've been using contactless payment systems for years.
So, I don't have to ask if they have contactless payment... they do. The question is if this includes ApplePay or not... and since most people don't use it, they might not know. Meanwhile, the line is being held up.
And, yes, I should set it up and see. I'm just trying to imagine how ApplePay could *possibly* be faster. I guess with an Apple Watch (which I don't have) I don't have to reach into my pocket. But, that's the only time savings I see. ApplePay will generally take an extra step, as you have to do TouchID or FaceID. (Note, this won't apply to purchases over a certain amount, as then you have to do a PIN, etc.)
They have a reasonably good product line for a lower-end store. That has been the appeal.
Yea, or at least give something of value that I might be willing to trade my information for. For example, up here one grocery store now has an app where you can shop and then just schedule the pickup window. If you save an hour of my time, I might trade that in exchange for my shopping habits. But, IMO, it needs to be more compelling than... you'll get a few points that you might one day save some money with.
Yes, that's an advantage of the Watch. But, what if you get there and tap the Watch and it doesn't work. Then you have to dig for your wallet, instead of (hopefully) having done it already. Of course, on the other hand, maybe if a couple seconds really matters this much, there's something else wrong.
Or Australia.
Or Samoa just changed over, you could start a trend.
In general, I use ApplePay when I remember to do it and it seems to work fine. But it hasn't been a game changer for me.
The bigger problem, is just like tapping the card, not ever place accepts that. Even fewer will accept Apple Pay. So, after trying the iPhone and it not working, then there is the extra time to get out my wallet, pull out the card, and go though that process. When I tap my card, it's already out, so if it doesn't work, I just insert the chip and then it does.