"I used to take my iPhone7 into the sauna at the gym, and it would sometimes overheat"...
Even those working at AI are sometimes are a few cards short of a full deck. Many gyms, mine included have very restrictive policies about carrying phones around in the locker room areas. If I saw someone at my gym with a phone in the sauna, not only would I shake my head in amazement that they would even do that, but I'd tell that clown to take it outside to an established zone and/or report them to management.
Saunas and electronics do not mix. I must be getting old because this is crap that I would never do (I'm a software engineer) and must be more like a millennial thing with serious device-attachment issues.
I would go straight from a workout into the sauna, with earbuds still in my ears, listening to music. My thoughts were that with the water resistance it would be fine. I never thought about battery degradation though. Lesson learned.
Yeah I'd never think to do this. Fluid rolling on a device is different than a room packed full of steaming hot vapor.
I recently sold my iPod Touch 6 gen, I had it for two years and it's used everyday and I have it running all night every night so it's charged a lot. After two years of this I checked the battery before I sold it and it was in almost new condition. Just bought a one year old SE that was charged every day and it's battery is also at about 95%. Just got rid of a 3rd hand S4 whose battery was also in top condition. All these experiences lead me to conclude that if people are having problems with a battery that's one or two years old then there's something wrong with the battery. So Apple should have replaced batteries that are two years old that cannot perform, because they are obviously faulty.
That's not obvious. It really depends on use and charging cycles. I don't know how you used you iPod Touch but if it was less intense than how you used a smart phone then you'd get longer use out of it per charge. After a two or three years of intense use a lithium-ion is going to need to be serviced. That's just chemistry.
John Gruber did a recent podcast with Jason Snell on this subject. Definitely did not let Apple off the hook. Snell wondered just how much Apple thinks about an iPhone in year 3,4 of its lifespan. He also thinks top execs at Apple should have to use the latest software in development on a 3 year old device as their daily driver to determine if the experience is good enough to ship. It sounded like he has family members with older phones running the latest software and the experience isn’t great. Something else they brought up is users shouldn’t have to wipe their devices and reload from backup to improve the experience or get it back to what it was before the software update.
I am curious about Apple’s product development process. When they were first desigining the 6 did they take in to account that it would get 3 years worth of software updates? Who decided the 6 should get iOS 11? How does Apple decide how big the battery is going to be in a device? Do they start out with a certain battery life they want to hit and then put in whatever battery size will meet that target? And what is the target based on? Or is the battery size determined by a specific device weight/thickness target? With iPad the battery life has consistently been about 9 hours or so. Does Apple ever think about trying to get more or have they decided 9 hours is good enough?
Another problem Apple has is new versions of iOS for iPhone are tied new hardware releases so people on older devices are updating at the same time new devices are going on sale. That can easily leave the perception that Apple slowing down older phones to get people to upgrade. I know Apple wants as many users as possible to be on the latest software but maybe they need to re-think how long older devices keep getting software updates. Maybe iPhone 6 should have stopped at iOS 10 and only receive updates if there’s some critical security bug or something broke that needs to be fixed (like some iOS 6 only devices getting an update to fix an issue with FaceTime). And on the hardware side perhaps devices need to be futue proofed more. Maybe iPhone 6’s 1GB RAM was sufficient with iOS 8 but would that still be the case a year or two later after several software updates? The first iPad Air I had Safari was nearly unusable because the browser tabs were constantly reloading (how anyone at Apple found this acceptable is beyond me). With my iPad Pro and 4GB RAM I never run into this issue. One reason why I would never go back to an iPad that has less than 4GB RAM. Phil Schiller gave an interview before Christmas when he said (in reference to software bugs) that Apple had some soul searching to do. Good. Hopefully we really see that they’ve done that in 2018, especially on the software side.
John Gruber did a recent podcast with Jason Snell on this subject. Definitely did not let Apple off the hook. Snell wondered just how much Apple thinks about an iPhone in year 3,4 of its lifespan. He also thinks top execs at Apple should have to use the latest software in development on a 3 year old device as their daily driver to determine if the experience is good enough to ship. It sounded like he has family members with older phones running the latest software and the experience isn’t great. Something else they brought up is users shouldn’t have to wipe their devices and reload from backup to improve the experience or get it back to what it was before the software update.
I am curious about Apple’s product development process. When they were first desigining the 6 did they take in to account that it would get 3 years worth of software updates? Who decided the 6 should get iOS 11? How does Apple decide how big the battery is going to be in a device? Do they start out with a certain battery life they want to hit and then put in whatever battery size will meet that target? And what is the target based on? Or is the battery size determined by a specific device weight/thickness target? With iPad the battery life has consistently been about 9 hours or so. Does Apple ever think about trying to get more or have they decided 9 hours is good enough?
Another problem Apple has is new versions of iOS for iPhone are tied new hardware releases so people on older devices are updating at the same time new devices are going on sale. That can easily leave the perception that Apple slowing down older phones to get people to upgrade. I know Apple wants as many users as possible to be on the latest software but maybe they need to re-think how long older devices keep getting software updates. Maybe iPhone 6 should have stopped at iOS 10 and only receive updates if there’s some critical security bug or something broke that needs to be fixed (like some iOS 6 only devices getting an update to fix an issue with FaceTime). And on the hardware side perhaps devices need to be futue proofed more. Maybe iPhone 6’s 1GB RAM was sufficient with iOS 8 but would that still be the case a year or two later after several software updates? The first iPad Air I had Safari was nearly unusable because the browser tabs were constantly reloading (how anyone at Apple found this acceptable is beyond me). With my iPad Pro and 4GB RAM I never run into this issue. One reason why I would never go back to an iPad that has less than 4GB RAM. Phil Schiller gave an interview before Christmas when he said (in reference to software bugs) that Apple had some soul searching to do. Good. Hopefully we really see that they’ve done that in 2018, especially on the software side.
You have made lot of good points. Expect rebuttal from few of those posters who would defend Apple at any cost.
It was Gruber’s podcast that got me thinking. I hope Schiller or Federighi have a chance to listen to it.
Don't know about your points. My daughter has a iPhone 5S with the latest iOS version and it runs as fast as ever. I don't think that the newer iOS versions requier a lot more processing power and RAM. By the way she has the original battery which has been charged every day. We have three iPads and they never ran slower after an update (i allways wait a few months before updating). My iPhone 7 still runs iOS 10. It would be nice though if you could easily downgrade and Apple would release security updates and bug fixes for some older versions. Just in case.
John Gruber did a recent podcast with Jason Snell on this subject. Definitely did not let Apple off the hook. Snell wondered just how much Apple thinks about an iPhone in year 3,4 of its lifespan. He also thinks top execs at Apple should have to use the latest software in development on a 3 year old device as their daily driver to determine if the experience is good enough to ship. It sounded like he has family members with older phones running the latest software and the experience isn’t great. Something else they brought up is users shouldn’t have to wipe their devices and reload from backup to improve the experience or get it back to what it was before the software update.
I am curious about Apple’s product development process. When they were first desigining the 6 did they take in to account that it would get 3 years worth of software updates? Who decided the 6 should get iOS 11? How does Apple decide how big the battery is going to be in a device? Do they start out with a certain battery life they want to hit and then put in whatever battery size will meet that target? And what is the target based on? Or is the battery size determined by a specific device weight/thickness target? With iPad the battery life has consistently been about 9 hours or so. Does Apple ever think about trying to get more or have they decided 9 hours is good enough?
Another problem Apple has is new versions of iOS for iPhone are tied new hardware releases so people on older devices are updating at the same time new devices are going on sale. That can easily leave the perception that Apple slowing down older phones to get people to upgrade. I know Apple wants as many users as possible to be on the latest software but maybe they need to re-think how long older devices keep getting software updates. Maybe iPhone 6 should have stopped at iOS 10 and only receive updates if there’s some critical security bug or something broke that needs to be fixed (like some iOS 6 only devices getting an update to fix an issue with FaceTime). And on the hardware side perhaps devices need to be futue proofed more. Maybe iPhone 6’s 1GB RAM was sufficient with iOS 8 but would that still be the case a year or two later after several software updates? The first iPad Air I had Safari was nearly unusable because the browser tabs were constantly reloading (how anyone at Apple found this acceptable is beyond me). With my iPad Pro and 4GB RAM I never run into this issue. One reason why I would never go back to an iPad that has less than 4GB RAM. Phil Schiller gave an interview before Christmas when he said (in reference to software bugs) that Apple had some soul searching to do. Good. Hopefully we really see that they’ve done that in 2018, especially on the software side.
You have made lot of good points. Expect rebuttal from few of those posters who would defend Apple at any cost.
It was Gruber’s podcast that got me thinking. I hope Schiller or Federighi have a chance to listen to it.
Don't know about your points. My daughter has a iPhone 5S with the latest iOS version and it runs as fast as ever. I don't think that the newer iOS versions requier a lot more processing power and RAM. By the way she has the original battery which has been charged every day. We have three iPads and they never ran slower after an update (i allways wait a few months before updating). My iPhone 7 still runs iOS 10. It would be nice though if you could easily downgrade and Apple would release security updates and bug fixes for some older versions. Just in case.
Well Jason Snell’s family seem to have had the opposite experience. Glad everything is working well for your family though.
John Gruber did a recent podcast with Jason Snell on this subject. Definitely did not let Apple off the hook. Snell wondered just how much Apple thinks about an iPhone in year 3,4 of its lifespan. He also thinks top execs at Apple should have to use the latest software in development on a 3 year old device as their daily driver to determine if the experience is good enough to ship. It sounded like he has family members with older phones running the latest software and the experience isn’t great. Something else they brought up is users shouldn’t have to wipe their devices and reload from backup to improve the experience or get it back to what it was before the software update.
I am curious about Apple’s product development process. When they were first desigining the 6 did they take in to account that it would get 3 years worth of software updates? Who decided the 6 should get iOS 11? How does Apple decide how big the battery is going to be in a device? Do they start out with a certain battery life they want to hit and then put in whatever battery size will meet that target? And what is the target based on? Or is the battery size determined by a specific device weight/thickness target? With iPad the battery life has consistently been about 9 hours or so. Does Apple ever think about trying to get more or have they decided 9 hours is good enough?
Another problem Apple has is new versions of iOS for iPhone are tied new hardware releases so people on older devices are updating at the same time new devices are going on sale. That can easily leave the perception that Apple slowing down older phones to get people to upgrade. I know Apple wants as many users as possible to be on the latest software but maybe they need to re-think how long older devices keep getting software updates. Maybe iPhone 6 should have stopped at iOS 10 and only receive updates if there’s some critical security bug or something broke that needs to be fixed (like some iOS 6 only devices getting an update to fix an issue with FaceTime). And on the hardware side perhaps devices need to be futue proofed more. Maybe iPhone 6’s 1GB RAM was sufficient with iOS 8 but would that still be the case a year or two later after several software updates? The first iPad Air I had Safari was nearly unusable because the browser tabs were constantly reloading (how anyone at Apple found this acceptable is beyond me). With my iPad Pro and 4GB RAM I never run into this issue. One reason why I would never go back to an iPad that has less than 4GB RAM. Phil Schiller gave an interview before Christmas when he said (in reference to software bugs) that Apple had some soul searching to do. Good. Hopefully we really see that they’ve done that in 2018, especially on the software side.
You have made lot of good points. Expect rebuttal from few of those posters who would defend Apple at any cost.
It was Gruber’s podcast that got me thinking. I hope Schiller or Federighi have a chance to listen to it.
Don't know about your points. My daughter has a iPhone 5S with the latest iOS version and it runs as fast as ever. I don't think that the newer iOS versions requier a lot more processing power and RAM. By the way she has the original battery which has been charged every day. We have three iPads and they never ran slower after an update (i allways wait a few months before updating). My iPhone 7 still runs iOS 10. It would be nice though if you could easily downgrade and Apple would release security updates and bug fixes for some older versions. Just in case.
Well Jason Snell’s family seem to have had the opposite experience. Glad everything is working well for your family though.
What the fuck are you trying to say here? That i am just making shit up? There are so many iOS users how many complains do you hear? I am not denying anything just telling that it's quite complex.
I recently sold my iPod Touch 6 gen, I had it for two years and it's used everyday and I have it running all night every night so it's charged a lot. After two years of this I checked the battery before I sold it and it was in almost new condition. Just bought a one year old SE that was charged every day and it's battery is also at about 95%. Just got rid of a 3rd hand S4 whose battery was also in top condition. All these experiences lead me to conclude that if people are having problems with a battery that's one or two years old then there's something wrong with the battery. So Apple should have replaced batteries that are two years old that cannot perform, because they are obviously faulty.
Dude, devices have changed a lot since S4 & 5Ss. They have gotten much more powerful, and larger too. But you are not the average. I have a friend that still uses an iPhone 2G to this day. Its 10 years old. She changed the battery in 2014. Does that make 7 to 8 years the 'normal'?
bs video, apple didn't care about the performance of the phone, they new people will upgrade devices. My iPad mini 3 was perfectly smooth just before iOS 11. And I had just 4 months with it so the battery couldn't be degraded plus I had all day battery use, so if battery was a problem I should have noticed a decrease in run time. I couldn't stand the crap performance after updating so what I did? Yes, I bought me an iPad mini 4 running iOS 10.2 and the device works perfectly smooth. Running outdated software, yes but I won't update again.
"I used to take my iPhone7 into the sauna at the gym, and it would sometimes overheat"...
Even those working at AI are sometimes are a few cards short of a full deck. Many gyms, mine included have very restrictive policies about carrying phones around in the locker room areas. If I saw someone at my gym with a phone in the sauna, not only would I shake my head in amazement that they would even do that, but I'd tell that clown to take it outside to an established zone and/or report them to management.
Saunas and electronics do not mix. I must be getting old because this is crap that I would never do (I'm a software engineer) and must be more like a millennial thing with serious device-attachment issues.
John Gruber did a recent podcast with Jason Snell on this subject. Definitely did not let Apple off the hook. Snell wondered just how much Apple thinks about an iPhone in year 3,4 of its lifespan. He also thinks top execs at Apple should have to use the latest software in development on a 3 year old device as their daily driver to determine if the experience is good enough to ship. It sounded like he has family members with older phones running the latest software and the experience isn’t great. Something else they brought up is users shouldn’t have to wipe their devices and reload from backup to improve the experience or get it back to what it was before the software update.
I am curious about Apple’s product development process. When they were first desigining the 6 did they take in to account that it would get 3 years worth of software updates? Who decided the 6 should get iOS 11? How does Apple decide how big the battery is going to be in a device? Do they start out with a certain battery life they want to hit and then put in whatever battery size will meet that target? And what is the target based on? Or is the battery size determined by a specific device weight/thickness target? With iPad the battery life has consistently been about 9 hours or so. Does Apple ever think about trying to get more or have they decided 9 hours is good enough?
Another problem Apple has is new versions of iOS for iPhone are tied new hardware releases so people on older devices are updating at the same time new devices are going on sale. That can easily leave the perception that Apple slowing down older phones to get people to upgrade. I know Apple wants as many users as possible to be on the latest software but maybe they need to re-think how long older devices keep getting software updates. Maybe iPhone 6 should have stopped at iOS 10 and only receive updates if there’s some critical security bug or something broke that needs to be fixed (like some iOS 6 only devices getting an update to fix an issue with FaceTime). And on the hardware side perhaps devices need to be futue proofed more. Maybe iPhone 6’s 1GB RAM was sufficient with iOS 8 but would that still be the case a year or two later after several software updates? The first iPad Air I had Safari was nearly unusable because the browser tabs were constantly reloading (how anyone at Apple found this acceptable is beyond me). With my iPad Pro and 4GB RAM I never run into this issue. One reason why I would never go back to an iPad that has less than 4GB RAM. Phil Schiller gave an interview before Christmas when he said (in reference to software bugs) that Apple had some soul searching to do. Good. Hopefully we really see that they’ve done that in 2018, especially on the software side.
These are all very good and pragmatic points that hint at some of the significant business and engineering challenges that are involved with new (software, hardware, and system) product development. When you add in a few dozen additional equally challenging points like parts sourcing, reliability, industrialization, technology licensing, functional growth margins, standards conformance (IEEE, IEC, CE, UL, FCC, CSA, ...), manufacturing, logistics, financing, associated product roadmaps, time to market, stakeholder expectations, etc., just to mention a few, the magnitude and complexity of the problem for a company that is on the leading edge of new product introduction and development is faced with. Yes, handling legacy and the installed base is also a major concern at the same time that you're trying to rollout new features that legacy and installed base will never get to use due to constant technological advances and constantly rising customer expectations. These are not excuses, this is the reality and reality involves tradeoffs, compromises, and concessions.
New product development is all about balancing multiple priorities that involve functionality (features, capabilities, capacities, etc.), qualities (performance, manufacturability, reliability, availability, maintainability, usability, lifecycle support, aesthetics, etc.), and business imperatives (positioning, marketing, ROI, time to market, etc.). The functional "what it must do" challenges are usually the easiest to deliver. The phone function must be able to make & receive calls. Check. The qualities are IMHO the hardest, most challenging, least obvious/visible, and unfortunately the most frequently compromised and hardest to change. An unreliable product cannot easily be fixed after the fact or mitigated post release. Missing a quality mark can spell doom. Note 7. Business imperatives are the least concrete, most visible, but easiest the change. Ship dates can change, with associated flak involved, but if the product delivers the functionality and qualities the business misses will usually be forgiven.
So yeah, it's easy to cherry pick individual things that could have been done better in a particular product development or to retrospectively evaluate a product designed 3-4 years ago based on today's expectations and de facto product quality standards. Trust me, the people who are involved with new product development do this every day of their lives and those perspectives are absolutely factored into their current and future developments. However, when you're involved in new product development at any level from architecture to product management to component engineering to testing you have to make very hard choices in realtime, as in today and right now, knowing that those decisions have very big financial and customer value consequences associated with them that will play out over several years. All in all, Apple takes on these challenges time and time again and does an admirable job of delivering great products. Is Apple perfect? No way. Can Apple do better? Absolutely. As long as Apple is committed to continuous improvement, which they are, they will always be on the leading edge of new product development for everything they build and deliver. But the expectation bar is constantly rising, some of their competitors, like Xiaomi, aren't standing still, unexpected things still happen, so it will never be as easy as many people assume it to be. The fact that Apple seems to some to have unlimited financial resources doesn't really change the new product development equation much. Sure, they can fail miserably on a few new product development attempts and still be a viable business entity, but companies that continuously fail don't have the right formula for success and no amount of financial backing can make up for a poor new product development formula. Financial backing usually gives you a longer runway, but at some point it doesn't matter how long the runway is, the thing ain't gonna fly.
bs video, apple didn't care about the performance of the phone, they new people will upgrade devices. My iPad mini 3 was perfectly smooth just before iOS 11. And I had just 4 months with it so the battery couldn't be degraded plus I had all day battery use, so if battery was a problem I should have noticed a decrease in run time. I couldn't stand the crap performance after updating so what I did? Yes, I bought me an iPad mini 4 running iOS 10.2 and the device works perfectly smooth. Running outdated software, yes but I won't update again.
I think thats because of bugs or other problems. The same with updating a Mac. Somtimes a update would slow your Mac down. The best thing was to do a clean install. The updated Mac ran like shit and the clean version was running fine but in the end they were running the same system. It's not that an iPad mini 3 can't run iOS 11.
Thats why i think it should be made easy to downgrade. Just in case the new system does not run like it should. And older versions should get updates and fixes for a longer period.
I see a lot of comments about people that know nothing about technology or batteries. Rechargable batteries wear out, die, deplete. You think switching to a different phone manufacturer is going to solve your issue you are sadly mistaken. They care less about your performance then Apple does. Good luck getting any software updates with a Samsung or Pixel. They are the ones that would rather have you buy there latest model versus do anything to solve issues with there current ones. Oh and good luck getting service with those since there aren't any stores that you can take them to get serviced same day. Try a week to six weeks without your phone. Bring a fire extinguisher with your Samsung and make sure your smoke alarms batteries are working.
1) They also list various battery life stats. Are you also saying that those values should also be the same after a year? Two years? Three years? What battery technology should they use if you think believe that battery life of a new device shouldn't be stated if the batteries degrade with use?
The battery technology that lets all the other phone manufactures offer a 2 year / %5 battery replacement for free! duh
Can you point me to where Samsung or others commit to that? That would be an nice selling point.
This is Bull Crap fanboy Kool Aid thinking. Stop defending deception and fraud.
NO phone battery is should be degraded enough after only one year to slow down the phone. Apple (Phil Shiller usually) touts performance at EVERY introduction...its 40% faster...80% quicker...etc...etc...etc. They don't tell you "oh it's only for 1 year, then we slow the damn thing down because it can't perform longer than that". If iOS and iPhones can't last longer than one year, there's something wrong with Apple's designs. Actually, perhaps it's the "design" obsession that is the culprit. Thin thin thin thin. Doesn't matter if it doesn't work, just make it thin. Don't make the battery itself useful. And let's slow it down after a year and call it "normal". Fanboys will defend us no matter what we tell them. Bull Crap.
I'd like a $1,000 phone to last at least 3-years. If Apple's can't do that then I be replacing my iPhone 7+ with something else.
1) They also list various battery life stats. Are you also saying that those values should also be the same after a year? Two years? Three years? What battery technology should they use if you think believe that battery life of a new device shouldn't be stated if the batteries degrade with use?
2) The iPhone has has many generations where they've become thicker (and heavier). The Apple Watch, their latest device category, has become thicker each year.
3) What device will you replace it with? An Android device that will simply shutdown your system and lose your data because it wasn't smart enough to deal with an aging battery?
1. Don't give a damn about values year 1, 2, 3. I do care that the phone performs as advertised and as I bought it for this time. Apple needs to design phones like their earlier ones which did indeed perform for 3 years. Their obsession with thinnnnnnness created this problem. Adequate batteries no longer fit their "design". 2. So make them thick enough to include a decent battery. Jony may have sleepless nights but their phones would work. 3. Battery capacity will be high on my checklist for a replacement for my 7. Yes, I'd rather my phone perform to specs until it stops. At least I would know to either replace it entirely or the battery. And give me a break...you don't lose data when your battery runs out of power.
John Gruber did a recent podcast with Jason Snell on this subject. Definitely did not let Apple off the hook. Snell wondered just how much Apple thinks about an iPhone in year 3,4 of its lifespan. He also thinks top execs at Apple should have to use the latest software in development on a 3 year old device as their daily driver to determine if the experience is good enough to ship. It sounded like he has family members with older phones running the latest software and the experience isn’t great. Something else they brought up is users shouldn’t have to wipe their devices and reload from backup to improve the experience or get it back to what it was before the software update.
I am curious about Apple’s product development process. When they were first desigining the 6 did they take in to account that it would get 3 years worth of software updates? Who decided the 6 should get iOS 11? How does Apple decide how big the battery is going to be in a device? Do they start out with a certain battery life they want to hit and then put in whatever battery size will meet that target? And what is the target based on? Or is the battery size determined by a specific device weight/thickness target? With iPad the battery life has consistently been about 9 hours or so. Does Apple ever think about trying to get more or have they decided 9 hours is good enough?
Another problem Apple has is new versions of iOS for iPhone are tied new hardware releases so people on older devices are updating at the same time new devices are going on sale. That can easily leave the perception that Apple slowing down older phones to get people to upgrade. I know Apple wants as many users as possible to be on the latest software but maybe they need to re-think how long older devices keep getting software updates. Maybe iPhone 6 should have stopped at iOS 10 and only receive updates if there’s some critical security bug or something broke that needs to be fixed (like some iOS 6 only devices getting an update to fix an issue with FaceTime). And on the hardware side perhaps devices need to be futue proofed more. Maybe iPhone 6’s 1GB RAM was sufficient with iOS 8 but would that still be the case a year or two later after several software updates? The first iPad Air I had Safari was nearly unusable because the browser tabs were constantly reloading (how anyone at Apple found this acceptable is beyond me). With my iPad Pro and 4GB RAM I never run into this issue. One reason why I would never go back to an iPad that has less than 4GB RAM. Phil Schiller gave an interview before Christmas when he said (in reference to software bugs) that Apple had some soul searching to do. Good. Hopefully we really see that they’ve done that in 2018, especially on the software side.
These are all very good and pragmatic points that hint at some of the significant business and engineering challenges that are involved with new (software, hardware, and system) product development. When you add in a few dozen additional equally challenging points like parts sourcing, reliability, industrialization, technology licensing, functional growth margins, standards conformance (IEEE, IEC, CE, UL, FCC, CSA, ...), manufacturing, logistics, financing, associated product roadmaps, time to market, stakeholder expectations, etc., just to mention a few, the magnitude and complexity of the problem for a company that is on the leading edge of new product introduction and development is faced with. Yes, handling legacy and the installed base is also a major concern at the same time that you're trying to rollout new features that legacy and installed base will never get to use due to constant technological advances and constantly rising customer expectations. These are not excuses, this is the reality and reality involves tradeoffs, compromises, and concessions.
New product development is all about balancing multiple priorities that involve functionality (features, capabilities, capacities, etc.), qualities (performance, manufacturability, reliability, availability, maintainability, usability, lifecycle support, aesthetics, etc.), and business imperatives (positioning, marketing, ROI, time to market, etc.). The functional "what it must do" challenges are usually the easiest to deliver. The phone function must be able to make & receive calls. Check. The qualities are IMHO the hardest, most challenging, least obvious/visible, and unfortunately the most frequently compromised and hardest to change. An unreliable product cannot easily be fixed after the fact or mitigated post release. Missing a quality mark can spell doom. Note 7. Business imperatives are the least concrete, most visible, but easiest the change. Ship dates can change, with associated flak involved, but if the product delivers the functionality and qualities the business misses will usually be forgiven.
So yeah, it's easy to cherry pick individual things that could have been done better in a particular product development or to retrospectively evaluate a product designed 3-4 years ago based on today's expectations and de facto product quality standards. Trust me, the people who are involved with new product development do this every day of their lives and those perspectives are absolutely factored into their current and future developments. However, when you're involved in new product development at any level from architecture to product management to component engineering to testing you have to make very hard choices in realtime, as in today and right now, knowing that those decisions have very big financial and customer value consequences associated with them that will play out over several years. All in all, Apple takes on these challenges time and time again and does an admirable job of delivering great products. Is Apple perfect? No way. Can Apple do better? Absolutely. As long as Apple is committed to continuous improvement, which they are, they will always be on the leading edge of new product development for everything they build and deliver. But the expectation bar is constantly rising, some of their competitors, like Xiaomi, aren't standing still, unexpected things still happen, so it will never be as easy as many people assume it to be. The fact that Apple seems to some to have unlimited financial resources doesn't really change the new product development equation much. Sure, they can fail miserably on a few new product development attempts and still be a viable business entity, but companies that continuously fail don't have the right formula for success and no amount of financial backing can make up for a poor new product development formula. Financial backing usually gives you a longer runway, but at some point it doesn't matter how long the runway is, the thing ain't gonna fly.
Wow thought out non snarky responses do exist here. Cheers.
This is Bull Crap fanboy Kool Aid thinking. Stop defending deception and fraud.
NO phone battery is should be degraded enough after only one year to slow down the phone. Apple (Phil Shiller usually) touts performance at EVERY introduction...its 40% faster...80% quicker...etc...etc...etc. They don't tell you "oh it's only for 1 year, then we slow the damn thing down because it can't perform longer than that". If iOS and iPhones can't last longer than one year, there's something wrong with Apple's designs. Actually, perhaps it's the "design" obsession that is the culprit. Thin thin thin thin. Doesn't matter if it doesn't work, just make it thin. Don't make the battery itself useful. And let's slow it down after a year and call it "normal". Fanboys will defend us no matter what we tell them. Bull Crap.
I'd like a $1,000 phone to last at least 3-years. If Apple's can't do that then I be replacing my iPhone 7+ with something else.
1) They also list various battery life stats. Are you also saying that those values should also be the same after a year? Two years? Three years? What battery technology should they use if you think believe that battery life of a new device shouldn't be stated if the batteries degrade with use?
2) The iPhone has has many generations where they've become thicker (and heavier). The Apple Watch, their latest device category, has become thicker each year.
3) What device will you replace it with? An Android device that will simply shutdown your system and lose your data because it wasn't smart enough to deal with an aging battery?
1. Don't give a damn about values year 1, 2, 3. I do care that the phone performs as advertised and as I bought it for this time. Apple needs to design phones like their earlier ones which did indeed perform for 3 years. Their obsession with thinnnnnnness created this problem. Adequate batteries no longer fit their "design". 2. So make them thick enough to include a decent battery. Jony may have sleepless nights but their phones would work. 3. Battery capacity will be high on my checklist for a replacement for my 7. Yes, I'd rather my phone perform to specs until it stops. At least I would know to either replace it entirely or the battery. And give me a break...you don't lose data when your battery runs out of power.
This is Bull Crap fanboy Kool Aid thinking. Stop defending deception and fraud.
NO phone battery is should be degraded enough after only one year to slow down the phone. Apple (Phil Shiller usually) touts performance at EVERY introduction...its 40% faster...80% quicker...etc...etc...etc. They don't tell you "oh it's only for 1 year, then we slow the damn thing down because it can't perform longer than that". If iOS and iPhones can't last longer than one year, there's something wrong with Apple's designs. Actually, perhaps it's the "design" obsession that is the culprit. Thin thin thin thin. Doesn't matter if it doesn't work, just make it thin. Don't make the battery itself useful. And let's slow it down after a year and call it "normal". Fanboys will defend us no matter what we tell them. Bull Crap.
I'd like a $1,000 phone to last at least 3-years. If Apple's can't do that then I be replacing my iPhone 7+ with something else.
Congrats on your mushy-thinking post. Apple didnt say theyre doing this NOW to one-year-old batteries, they said they put the 7 on the list that could. You'd have to be performing twice as many charge cycles to wear down your battery in only one year.
You can want your battery to last as long as you like. But if you use it excessively youre going to have to service the battery. No different than a car -- after 2-3 years your battery won't crank in extreme cold or heat. Big deal, that's chemistry.
Oh great, another genius "car comparison" post. So you're happy if your car runs on 2 cylinders because you need to replace your battery? Wonderful. I'm not. I'd quite prefer my car to run on all cylinders, low battery capacity or not. Happy to replace the battery when it doesn't turn over. Happy to replace my iPhone battery too when it doesn't last long.
This is Bull Crap fanboy Kool Aid thinking. Stop defending deception and fraud.
NO phone battery is should be degraded enough after only one year to slow down the phone. Apple (Phil Shiller usually) touts performance at EVERY introduction...its 40% faster...80% quicker...etc...etc...etc. They don't tell you "oh it's only for 1 year, then we slow the damn thing down because it can't perform longer than that". If iOS and iPhones can't last longer than one year, there's something wrong with Apple's designs. Actually, perhaps it's the "design" obsession that is the culprit. Thin thin thin thin. Doesn't matter if it doesn't work, just make it thin. Don't make the battery itself useful. And let's slow it down after a year and call it "normal". Fanboys will defend us no matter what we tell them. Bull Crap.
I'd like a $1,000 phone to last at least 3-years. If Apple's can't do that then I be replacing my iPhone 7+ with something else.
1) They also list various battery life stats. Are you also saying that those values should also be the same after a year? Two years? Three years? What battery technology should they use if you think believe that battery life of a new device shouldn't be stated if the batteries degrade with use?
2) The iPhone has has many generations where they've become thicker (and heavier). The Apple Watch, their latest device category, has become thicker each year.
3) What device will you replace it with? An Android device that will simply shutdown your system and lose your data because it wasn't smart enough to deal with an aging battery?
1. Don't give a damn about values year 1, 2, 3. I do care that the phone performs as advertised and as I bought it for this time. Apple needs to design phones like their earlier ones which did indeed perform for 3 years. Their obsession with thinnnnnnness created this problem. Adequate batteries no longer fit their "design". 2. So make them thick enough to include a decent battery. Jony may have sleepless nights but their phones would work. 3. Battery capacity will be high on my checklist for a replacement for my 7. Yes, I'd rather my phone perform to specs until it stops. At least I would know to either replace it entirely or the battery. And give me a break...you don't lose data when your battery runs out of power.
1) You literally mentioned years many times in your post. You even wrote "I'd like a $1,000 phone to last at least 3-years."
2) iPhones battery tech is much better than when the original iPhone came out. Not knowing this means you're woefully under qualified for this conversation.
3) The battery life is much higher than it used to be. The battery capacity is also much higher than it used to be. Again, you should know this.
Original iPhone — 5.18 Wh
iPhone 8 — 6.96 Wh (134%)
iPhone 8 Plus: — 10.28 Wh (198%)
iPhone X — 10.35 Wh (200%)
4) If you need to know the battery condition there are countless apps, not to mention Apple telling you in Settings.
5) Every time a system shutdown unexpectedly everything not saved to disk disappears, and even cached data on NAND could be erased upon startup depending on how the system treats this temporary storage. This is why a proper shutdown sequence is performed instead of simply pulling power. If you're in the middle of an update your device could be bricked. Seriously, everyone on this forum should know this basic stuff.
What I'd like to know is by how much (by percentage/bar graph?) Apple is throttling performance in order to preserve battery life in iPhones deemed to need this. By 5%, 10%, 40%, more?
It would be nice to have some sort of app or metering displayed (preferably from Apple) on the device to let you know when your battery is going to reach the point where throttling will kick in (and what the performance hit will be) and also when the battery has degraded to the point where replacement is the only reasonable solution.
What I'd like to know is by how much (by percentage/bar graph?) Apple is throttling performance in order to preserve battery life in iPhones deemed to need this. By 5%, 10%, 40%, more?
It would be nice to have some sort of app or metering displayed (preferably from Apple) on the device to let you know when your battery is going to reach the point where throttling will kick in (and what the performance hit will be) and also when the battery has degraded to the point where replacement is the only reasonable solution.
That may be hard to pin down since it's about voltage regulation and will only throttle peak clock rates, which may or may not affect users.
Comments
Yeah I'd never think to do this. Fluid rolling on a device is different than a room packed full of steaming hot vapor.
That's not obvious. It really depends on use and charging cycles. I don't know how you used you iPod Touch but if it was less intense than how you used a smart phone then you'd get longer use out of it per charge. After a two or three years of intense use a lithium-ion is going to need to be serviced. That's just chemistry.
Don't know about your points. My daughter has a iPhone 5S with the latest iOS version and it runs as fast as ever. I don't think that the newer iOS versions requier a lot more processing power and RAM. By the way she has the original battery which has been charged every day.
We have three iPads and they never ran slower after an update (i allways wait a few months before updating).
My iPhone 7 still runs iOS 10. It would be nice though if you could easily downgrade and Apple would release security updates and bug fixes for some older versions. Just in case.
But you are not the average. I have a friend that still uses an iPhone 2G to this day. Its 10 years old. She changed the battery in 2014. Does that make 7 to 8 years the 'normal'?
My iPad mini 3 was perfectly smooth just before iOS 11. And I had just 4 months with it so the battery couldn't be degraded plus I had all day battery use, so if battery was a problem I should have noticed a decrease in run time. I couldn't stand the crap performance after updating so what I did? Yes, I bought me an iPad mini 4 running iOS 10.2 and the device works perfectly smooth. Running outdated software, yes but I won't update again.
New product development is all about balancing multiple priorities that involve functionality (features, capabilities, capacities, etc.), qualities (performance, manufacturability, reliability, availability, maintainability, usability, lifecycle support, aesthetics, etc.), and business imperatives (positioning, marketing, ROI, time to market, etc.). The functional "what it must do" challenges are usually the easiest to deliver. The phone function must be able to make & receive calls. Check. The qualities are IMHO the hardest, most challenging, least obvious/visible, and unfortunately the most frequently compromised and hardest to change. An unreliable product cannot easily be fixed after the fact or mitigated post release. Missing a quality mark can spell doom. Note 7. Business imperatives are the least concrete, most visible, but easiest the change. Ship dates can change, with associated flak involved, but if the product delivers the functionality and qualities the business misses will usually be forgiven.
So yeah, it's easy to cherry pick individual things that could have been done better in a particular product development or to retrospectively evaluate a product designed 3-4 years ago based on today's expectations and de facto product quality standards. Trust me, the people who are involved with new product development do this every day of their lives and those perspectives are absolutely factored into their current and future developments. However, when you're involved in new product development at any level from architecture to product management to component engineering to testing you have to make very hard choices in realtime, as in today and right now, knowing that those decisions have very big financial and customer value consequences associated with them that will play out over several years. All in all, Apple takes on these challenges time and time again and does an admirable job of delivering great products. Is Apple perfect? No way. Can Apple do better? Absolutely. As long as Apple is committed to continuous improvement, which they are, they will always be on the leading edge of new product development for everything they build and deliver. But the expectation bar is constantly rising, some of their competitors, like Xiaomi, aren't standing still, unexpected things still happen, so it will never be as easy as many people assume it to be. The fact that Apple seems to some to have unlimited financial resources doesn't really change the new product development equation much. Sure, they can fail miserably on a few new product development attempts and still be a viable business entity, but companies that continuously fail don't have the right formula for success and no amount of financial backing can make up for a poor new product development formula. Financial backing usually gives you a longer runway, but at some point it doesn't matter how long the runway is, the thing ain't gonna fly.
Thats why i think it should be made easy to downgrade. Just in case the new system does not run like it should. And older versions should get updates and fixes for a longer period.
2. So make them thick enough to include a decent battery. Jony may have sleepless nights but their phones would work.
3. Battery capacity will be high on my checklist for a replacement for my 7. Yes, I'd rather my phone perform to specs until it stops. At least I would know to either replace it entirely or the battery. And give me a break...you don't lose data when your battery runs out of power.
iPhone 10 is thicker than its predecessors.
2) iPhones battery tech is much better than when the original iPhone came out. Not knowing this means you're woefully under qualified for this conversation.
3) The battery life is much higher than it used to be. The battery capacity is also much higher than it used to be. Again, you should know this.
4) If you need to know the battery condition there are countless apps, not to mention Apple telling you in Settings.
5) Every time a system shutdown unexpectedly everything not saved to disk disappears, and even cached data on NAND could be erased upon startup depending on how the system treats this temporary storage. This is why a proper shutdown sequence is performed instead of simply pulling power. If you're in the middle of an update your device could be bricked. Seriously, everyone on this forum should know this basic stuff.
It would be nice to have some sort of app or metering displayed (preferably from Apple) on the device to let you know when your battery is going to reach the point where throttling will kick in (and what the performance hit will be) and also when the battery has degraded to the point where replacement is the only reasonable solution.