EU slaps Qualcomm with $1.23 billion fine over illegal chip payment to Apple

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 33
    nht said:
    Good !
    How is is good when another major US tech company gets slapped with a huge fine by the EU kleptocracy?  Do you really think the EU gives a shit about protecting Intel’s interest or just doing a money grab because they can?

    Granted Apple and Qualcomm is fighting right now but so what? I like cheering on Apple beating Qualcomm or Google as much the next guy here but it’s still “in the family” so to speak.   

    When foreign governments make moneygrabs against US companies, even the ones I’m meh about, it’s a money grab against the US stock market and a money grab against the economy of the US.  I’m sure I have Q buried in some fund or another.

    Qualcomm is just like HP, Westinghouse, Motorola, IBM, DEC, Sun, Intel, Apple, AT&T, Microsoft.  Some of those still around, some of those not (or just in name).

    Ever hear of the Viterbi algorithm?  Invented by a co-founder of Qualcomm, Andrew Viterbi. 

    So it’s another one of US’s inventor/founder tech companies.

    Samsung they can beat on like a drum all day long and I don’t much care.
    Qualcomm is still a monopoly.
    ronn
  • Reply 22 of 33
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,934member
    Rayz2016 said:
    So they paid Apple to use their hardware?

    Isn’t this what people usually call ‘a discount’?

    This seems completely insane on the face of it, but if it wrecks Qualcomm’s business for good, I’m mildly in favor of it. Still... I don’t see how antitrust possibly applies. These two companies made a private deal. No company is ever guaranteed business with Apple and they don’t need to give EU companies a chance to compete because they are not the government, they’re a bloody private business!
    The ruling is quite clear on the reasons behind it. The EU takes the opinion that QC deliberately stifled competition and abused its dominant position. The agreement not only stifled competition but obliged Apple to comply with it under the threat of having to pay back large amounts of the sum already paid in the case of Apple finding a better product and wanting to switch to it before the expiry of the agreement.

    The EU also believes that being a dominant player infers a larger responsibility and a duty to act in line with it.


    ronn
  • Reply 23 of 33
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,631member
    Rayz2016 said:
    So they paid Apple to use their hardware?

    Isn’t this what people usually call ‘a discount’?

    Not when it forces Apple to only use Qualcomm modems. Then it is called abuse of monopoly.  That is why Qualcomm was fined $1.3 BILLION. 
    Sorry, who was forced?
  • Reply 24 of 33
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,934member
    Rayz2016 said:
    So they paid Apple to use their hardware?

    Isn’t this what people usually call ‘a discount’?
    That detail was explicitly covered in the ruling. QC didn't just offer cheaper prices.
  • Reply 25 of 33
    gatorguy said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    So they paid Apple to use their hardware?

    Isn’t this what people usually call ‘a discount’?

    Not when it forces Apple to only use Qualcomm modems. Then it is called abuse of monopoly.  That is why Qualcomm was fined $1.3 BILLION. 
    Apple was never "forced" as demonstrated by their use of Intel in some iPhones. There are few entities that can FORCE Apple to do anything.

    Apple was willing to go along with Qualcomm pricing as long as it benefitted their business. Now it presumably doesn't. That's the gist of it. Apple still signs contracts with companies like Philips, LG, Ericsson, Nokia and others that collect royalties based on the entire device price and not just a component. When it is no longer in Apple's interests to do so, and as Apple becomes ever more powerful, they may cause a ruckus with those contracts as well.  They've started similar dust-ups with Nokia and Ericsson claiming unfair licensing practices in recent years only to come around to agreements with them too and settle out-of-court, and paying royalties to the IP owners based on a finished device cost just as Qualcomm would like to continue doing. 

    It's simple business and really nothing more, companies fighting over money to see who can keep more of it. PROFIT!

    It's folks like us on forums that make it into something nefarious because we're fans and proceed to make statements of "unfair, it's against the law", "it's not FRAND!", "no one else does this" and other claims of illegal dealings with little understanding of the industry licensing practices for standards-committed and non-essential IP.
    Umm, you do realize that by the time apple started to use intel, this agreement had already ended, right? this contract ended in 2016, which is the time apple started to use intel.
    ronn
  • Reply 26 of 33
    nht said:
    Good !
    How is is good when another major US tech company gets slapped with a huge fine by the EU kleptocracy?  Do you really think the EU gives a shit about protecting Intel’s interest or just doing a money grab because they can?

    Granted Apple and Qualcomm is fighting right now but so what? I like cheering on Apple beating Qualcomm or Google as much the next guy here but it’s still “in the family” so to speak.   

    When foreign governments make moneygrabs against US companies, even the ones I’m meh about, it’s a money grab against the US stock market and a money grab against the economy of the US.  I’m sure I have Q buried in some fund or another.

    Qualcomm is just like HP, Westinghouse, Motorola, IBM, DEC, Sun, Intel, Apple, AT&T, Microsoft.  Some of those still around, some of those not (or just in name).

    Ever hear of the Viterbi algorithm?  Invented by a co-founder of Qualcomm, Andrew Viterbi. 

    So it’s another one of US’s inventor/founder tech companies.

    Samsung they can beat on like a drum all day long and I don’t much care.
    So it doesn’t matter that they were in the wrong. It only matters to you that it’s hurting the American economy??? 
    avon b7ronnScot1sphericsingularitymuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 27 of 33
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,742member
    gatorguy said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    So they paid Apple to use their hardware?

    Isn’t this what people usually call ‘a discount’?

    Not when it forces Apple to only use Qualcomm modems. Then it is called abuse of monopoly.  That is why Qualcomm was fined $1.3 BILLION. 
    Apple was never "forced" as demonstrated by their use of Intel in some iPhones. There are few entities that can FORCE Apple to do anything.

    Apple was willing to go along with Qualcomm pricing as long as it benefitted their business. Now it presumably doesn't. That's the gist of it. Apple still signs contracts with companies like Philips, LG, Ericsson, Nokia and others that collect royalties based on the entire device price and not just a component. When it is no longer in Apple's interests to do so, and as Apple becomes ever more powerful, they may cause a ruckus with those contracts as well.  They've started similar dust-ups with Nokia and Ericsson claiming unfair licensing practices in recent years only to come around to agreements with them too and settle out-of-court, and paying royalties to the IP owners based on a finished device cost just as Qualcomm would like to continue doing. 

    It's simple business and really nothing more, companies fighting over money to see who can keep more of it. PROFIT!

    It's folks like us on forums that make it into something nefarious because we're fans and proceed to make statements of "unfair, it's against the law", "it's not FRAND!", "no one else does this" and other claims of illegal dealings with little understanding of the industry licensing practices for standards-committed and non-essential IP.
    Umm, you do realize that by the time apple started to use intel, this agreement had already ended, right? this contract ended in 2016, which is the time apple started to use intel.
    Which is exactly the point, Apple was never "forced" into anything. They made a voluntary and profitable business decision to deal and negotiate acceptable terms with Qualcomm rather than Intel or "other". It was always Apple's choice. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 28 of 33
    ronnronn Posts: 330member
    gatorguy said:

    Which is exactly the point, Apple was never "forced" into anything. They made a voluntary and profitable business decision to deal and negotiate acceptable terms with Qualcomm rather than Intel or "other". It was always Apple's choice. 
    Apple essentially had a gun to its head. When Intel had reasonable tech and Apple wanted to diversify its supply chain, they were trapped in the monopolistic contract. That's why China, South Korea, Taiwan, the EU and the US started looking at the contracts (not just Apple's) and Qualcomm started racking up fines. And it's not over as there are at least two outstanding investigations.
  • Reply 29 of 33
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,742member
    ronn said:
    gatorguy said:

    Which is exactly the point, Apple was never "forced" into anything. They made a voluntary and profitable business decision to deal and negotiate acceptable terms with Qualcomm rather than Intel or "other". It was always Apple's choice. 
    Apple essentially had a gun to its head. When Intel had reasonable tech and Apple wanted to diversify its supply chain, they were trapped in the monopolistic contract. That's why China, South Korea, Taiwan, the EU and the US started looking at the contracts (not just Apple's) and Qualcomm started racking up fines. And it's not over as there are at least two outstanding investigations.
    Must'a been one helluva gun pointed at Mr. Cook's head to force that signature....
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 30 of 33
    nht said:
    Good !
    How is is good when another major US tech company gets slapped with a huge fine by the EU kleptocracy?  Do you really think the EU gives a shit about protecting Intel’s interest or just doing a money grab because they can?

    Granted Apple and Qualcomm is fighting right now but so what? I like cheering on Apple beating Qualcomm or Google as much the next guy here but it’s still “in the family” so to speak.   

    When foreign governments make moneygrabs against US companies, even the ones I’m meh about, it’s a money grab against the US stock market and a money grab against the economy of the US.  I’m sure I have Q buried in some fund or another.

    Qualcomm is just like HP, Westinghouse, Motorola, IBM, DEC, Sun, Intel, Apple, AT&T, Microsoft.  Some of those still around, some of those not (or just in name).

    Ever hear of the Viterbi algorithm?  Invented by a co-founder of Qualcomm, Andrew Viterbi. 

    So it’s another one of US’s inventor/founder tech companies.

    Samsung they can beat on like a drum all day long and I don’t much care.
    Well if Qualcomm doesn’t want to be fined they don’t have to do business in the EU. What’s that you say? There’s profits to be made there? Then you abide by EU regulations.
    ronnsphericsingularitymuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 31 of 33

    Rayz2016 said:
    So they paid Apple to use their hardware?

    Isn’t this what people usually call ‘a discount’?
    Not if as a condition of receiving the discount you are not allowed to purchase from other manufacturers.
  • Reply 32 of 33
    ronnronn Posts: 330member
    gatorguy said:
    ronn said:
    gatorguy said:

    Which is exactly the point, Apple was never "forced" into anything. They made a voluntary and profitable business decision to deal and negotiate acceptable terms with Qualcomm rather than Intel or "other". It was always Apple's choice. 
    Apple essentially had a gun to its head. When Intel had reasonable tech and Apple wanted to diversify its supply chain, they were trapped in the monopolistic contract. That's why China, South Korea, Taiwan, the EU and the US started looking at the contracts (not just Apple's) and Qualcomm started racking up fines. And it's not over as there are at least two outstanding investigations.
    Must'a been one helluva gun pointed at Mr. Cook's head to force that signature....
    The biggest, dirtiest gun in the industry = FRAND abuse. That's why they've been fined by not one, not two, but three regulatory bodies. And face additional fines at the conclusion of at least two more investigations. Apple is backed by arch-rival Samsung, Huawei, Google, Amazon, Facebook... for a reason.
  • Reply 33 of 33
    lukeilukei Posts: 332member
    The irony is Intel did this for years to AMD
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