foggyhill said: Considering Apple has tolerated something as inane as Itunes for 15 years, I have a lot of trouble believe UI/UX experience was ever always universally good in the past or that Apple has fallen from some lofty summit. The fact that Apple interaces have exploded in number and types since 2002 makes judging this even harder.
Somewhat fair point. I'm not claiming they reached perfection on every app and aspect of every UI they ever made. And yes, with lots of new apps and interfaces, it's hard to compare unless you're looking at principals employed. But, for a number of the apps and UI aspects of the OS, they've both broken those design principals and when comparing previous to newer version of applications that have been changed, they've often degraded them in terms of UI. (ex: just take a look at the App Store on an iPhone from a iOS version or two back to what we have today. Or, even at it's worst, I don't think iTunes was as bad as Apple Music. Or, then there is stuff like Apple Mail - once one of the best mail apps, period - being ruined by working so poorly that most of us moved on to other apps.)
And, as I pointed out... I'm hardly the only one saying this.
foggyhill said: Considering Apple has tolerated something as inane as Itunes for 15 years, I have a lot of trouble believe UI/UX experience was ever always universally good in the past or that Apple has fallen from some lofty summit. The fact that Apple interaces have exploded in number and types since 2002 makes judging this even harder.
Somewhat fair point. I'm not claiming they reached perfection on every app and aspect of every UI they ever made. And yes, with lots of new apps and interfaces, it's hard to compare unless you're looking at principals employed. But, for a number of the apps and UI aspects of the OS, they've both broken those design principals and when comparing previous to newer version of applications that have been changed, they've often degraded them in terms of UI. (ex: just take a look at the App Store on an iPhone from a iOS version or two back to what we have today. Or, even at it's worst, I don't think iTunes was as bad as Apple Music. Or, then there is stuff like Apple Mail - once one of the best mail apps, period - being ruined by working so poorly that most of us moved on to other apps.)
And, as I pointed out... I'm hardly the only one saying this.
Apple changed focus a lot with the advent of the iPod and especially the iPhone. Most people complaining that I hear are not this consumer market but the core market they had up to 3004 when the iPod really took off.
One of the main issues is trying to serve many markets at the same time through the same interface and having an interface that supports an iPhone ver broader set of features and interface devices. Creep in all aspect of a project do large are hard to contain.
as for iTunes, come on, even in 2003 the interface was clunky
the App Store has had a discoverability of apps issue since forever and also an inability for devs is o properly market their wares and provide proper support through the store. It was stagnant and inefficient needed to change in a big way.
some of the big season issues is the lack of substantial change pre iOS 7 in the face of android that created a huge sudden change in iOS 7 to 9.
foggyhill said: Apple changed focus a lot with the advent of the iPod and especially the iPhone. Most people complaining that I hear are not this consumer market but the core market they had up to 3004 when the iPod really took off.
One of the main issues is trying to serve many markets at the same time through the same interface and having an interface that supports an iPhone ver broader set of features and interface devices. Creep in all aspect of a project do large are hard to contain.
as for iTunes, come on, even in 2003 the interface was clunky
the App Store has had a discoverability of apps issue since forever and also an inability for devs is o properly market their wares and provide proper support through the store. It was stagnant and inefficient needed to change in a big way.
some of the big season issues is the lack of substantial change pre iOS 7 in the face of android that created a huge sudden change in iOS 7 to 9.
I get the challenge of multiple markets and their rapid expansion. I just don't think so heavily shifting from their previous market to consumer market is a great idea. They have to shift, but they don't have to fully shift.
Also, good UI principals shouldn't just evaporate because you have more interfaces or target markets. Yes, change is inevitable, but that change can be good or bad.
As for discovery, they need to get their search technology fixed for that. But, I don't get how the new App Store fixes that. All it seems to do is promote a few apps more on my iPhone, but it's much harder to discover now for the end user. Making every app look like a non-responsive, poorly designed web-page certainly isn't the answer. (My gosh, in some of these interfaces, basic things like app titles run off the screen so you can't even read the full name of the app.) IMO, the iOS 10 App Store was far superior to the iOS 11 one. Every time I use it, I still can't believe someone actually spent time to do that to it.
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And, as I pointed out... I'm hardly the only one saying this.
One of the main issues is trying to serve many markets at the same time through the same interface and having an interface that supports an iPhone ver broader set of features and interface devices. Creep in all aspect of a project do large are hard to contain.
as for iTunes, come on, even in 2003 the interface was clunky
the App Store has had a discoverability of apps issue since forever and also an inability for devs is o properly market their wares and provide proper support through the store. It was stagnant and inefficient needed to change in a big way.
some of the big season issues is the lack of substantial change pre iOS 7 in the face of android that created a huge sudden change in iOS 7 to 9.
Also, good UI principals shouldn't just evaporate because you have more interfaces or target markets. Yes, change is inevitable, but that change can be good or bad.
As for discovery, they need to get their search technology fixed for that. But, I don't get how the new App Store fixes that. All it seems to do is promote a few apps more on my iPhone, but it's much harder to discover now for the end user. Making every app look like a non-responsive, poorly designed web-page certainly isn't the answer. (My gosh, in some of these interfaces, basic things like app titles run off the screen so you can't even read the full name of the app.) IMO, the iOS 10 App Store was far superior to the iOS 11 one. Every time I use it, I still can't believe someone actually spent time to do that to it.