the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos. Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.
Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.
Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds. Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.
Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants. Seems like a no brainer to me.
The Watch Industry would disagree with you. They thought that they didn't need to worry either.
I don’t think you can compare the two. Apple did build a better watch. But HomePod doesn’t offer anything truly better than other products. And it’s limited in what services it supports. Plus it’s not a solution for home theater or people who want to buy true high end speakers for the home. Maybe one day Apple will offer a range of home audio products like Sonos does, but until then HomePod is just another Wi-Fi speaker.
The Watch is the perfect analogy. When Apple released the Watch, they really weren't sure what features people would use most. They've been working on a smart speaker for years because they just didn't know what consumers would use it for. Now they have introduced hardware that is upgradable for years to come. There is no reason they cannot do everything the competitors do and more. The only question Apple asks (which no one else does) is what their customers will really use an appliance like HomePod for. They will get that answer in 6-12 months and iterate Sonos out of business and also truly compete with Amazon and Google in terms of marketshare. They will win the revenue/profit war in about 3 months.
I think they could win the "profit war" right from their pre-orders, and probably within 3 months best each other player in direct revenue for this market segment, but I doubt that Sonos will be out of business from this, much less within a year.
the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos. Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.
Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.
Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds. Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.
Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants. Seems like a no brainer to me.
The Watch Industry would disagree with you. They thought that they didn't need to worry either.
Darn. I forgot about the watch in my reply to the same post.
I see Apple developing the HomePod just as they did with the Watch— continuing to add features down the road as they are developed and deemed ready for distribution. Apple has had some recent missteps in the software dept., so I don't mind if they take there time and get it right. It's disappointing that they've held off on the stereo feature (when adding a second HP) and hope the wait is worth it.
Sonos cutting their price on that speaker doesn't mean their gear is any more 'overpriced' than Apple's or anybody else's gear. There's a huge markup in general on electronics. Always has been.
Ouch, £349 is a scary price gouge
How is that a gouge if it's purely an elective product? It's not like you're charging $100 a visit to pay toilets. (Do they even have those anymore?)
With Siri on my wrist or laying on the table it just hasn't been a big deal.
Maybe for you. But I've found Siri problematic on many an occasion. Not to mention if I have my phone and an iPad charging and use my Watch for Siri, sometimes all three will try to help and sometimes none of them are successful. Siri needs a lot of work.
The real benefit is being able to do this with voice commands where you don't have to yell, enunciate, repeat yourself, and/or wait for the personal digital assistant to finally ready itself.
I've had all these problems several times with using Siri, and more so for home automation. Two Echo Dots now take up the personal assistant slack and I find myself calling to Alexa far more often then Siri.
That said, Alexa still gives me 'Sorry, your Echo Dot has lost its connection' or just lights up and then goes out without a sound. Often when Alexa fails, Siri comes through. They both have different strengths and weaknesses. I hate saying 'Hey, Siri...' and wish I could just say 'Siri...' And I'm in the minority, I'm sure, but I dislike the constant improvement in making Siri's voices more life like. The current iterations sound too 'perky' to me and the contrast from the times it handles a sentence well to the times it doesn't really bothers me. So give me the more robotic Siri of yore.
And I think the HomePod's professed ability to provide good sounding music to every part of a room, if successful, is just as much a real benefit as accessing Siri everywhere in the room.
That's just, like, your opinion, man.
Dude! Like totally! As is all your diatribe about Echos, Dots, hubs, and marketeers. (LOL) And really, to be fair, the Dot wasn't meant to provide good sounding musical content. Get real, dude. You may find a standalone speaker the size of the Dot that doesn't 'suck', whatever that means. Not likely but maybe possible. And it won't have any of the Echo features. BT a better speaker for better sound or even plug in a Monobloc and a Krell or something if you want sound that doesn't 'suck'. Apples and oranges. Dude.
Nope. A good, stone-simple solution for multi-room audio isn't here yet.
Still opinion, but I happen to agree. But that may change and the change may start on Feb. 9.
That said, Alexa still gives me 'Sorry, your Echo Dot has lost its connection' or just lights up and then goes out without a sound.
1) That would be annoying. I can't say I've ever had them lose their connection except for the few times the internet was out, and they were the first responders since they'll tell me that they can't connect to the internet when making a request.
2) Within the last 6 months I did get my first "lights up and then goes out without a sound" results, which is a huge fail in my book since it offers no data to the user. I'm not sure if it was an Echo OS (local) update, an Alexa (server-side) update, a Sirius XM skill update, and/or a policy change, but I use to be able to say, "Alexa, Howard 100" and it would know that I meant Sirius XM. Now I have to say some variant where I tell it to play Sirius XM.
I've frequently seen Sonos 1 selling for $175 when on sale, so not really any different than historical discounts. Now if Apple would sell a pair of HomePod speakers for $600 that would be a killer deal
Disappointed that HomePod is tied to Apple Music bc the streaming quality is noticeably worse than Tidal. Wish it supported other services.
You won't be able to use voice commends, but you can use Spotify or other services with Homepod. I keep seeing people saying the same thing that you posted and that isn't correct from what I understand.
A Spotify representative told Business Insider, pointing out that users
will be able to play Spotify on the HomePod speaker by using the AirPlay
feature from an iPhone or iPad. Users will control the music by tapping
around the Spotify smartphone app, rather than by using verbal
commands.
the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos. Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.
Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.
Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds. Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.
Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants. Seems like a no brainer to me.
I don’t use Sonos personally other than a couple friends houses. But they can’t speak to their Sonos speakers, they have to use a Sonos app to control everything. So how does that count as a ding against Apple’s “half baked” voice assistant? It doesn’t. Using an ipad or iphone or appleTV I can playback music from any service and output to the HPs, so again how is the experience different than using a Sonos app for playback?
If the HP has great sound then it’s a fine shelf speaker, even if the channel separation is different than physical stereo. Unless I’m sitting in the middle of the shelves, which I’m not, I don’t know why physical stereo is a decided advantage to two crappier Sonos One drivers. I’d rather have one, better-sounding device with multi channel separation.
The latest Sonos, calllef One, does have mics and can be spoken to and give answers
the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos. Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.
Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.
Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds. Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.
Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants. Seems like a no brainer to me.
"Apple can’t compete with Sonos."
Hah! Famous last words. Just ask Blackberry and Amazon how well the phone biz is working out for them now. What was the market share of every MP3 player compared to the iPod?
It's good that Sonos appears to not share your opinion. They do have a lot to worry about. The industry's best-run and most successful HARDWARE company just decided to play in their sandbox. So, this is probably a smart defensive move to keep their dealers happy for a few more minutes.
As they've done before, I'd bet Apple opens up HomePod to 3rd parties gradually. I believe you'll see more music and other services offered soon. Maybe even announced at WWDC this year.
That said, I believe Sonos doesn't think this is a "no-brainer" and may or may not survive or grow by going in directions that Apple is not. Can their "better" stuff support the business with decreased sales of their entry-level product? I don't know, but it looks like they may find out.
Hate to break it to you, but Apple already tried to play in the high end speaker sandbox and we all know how well the iPod HiFi sold. Don’t be so cocky. Everything Apple touches isn’t a guaranteed success and HomePod offers no stand out features.
And no, Apple can’t compete with Sonos. I’m not saying that HomePod is a bad product. I’m sure it sounds great. But it’s one product. Sonos offers a range of products from simple Wi-Fi speakers like HomePod to soundbars and subs for home theater setups to speakerless boxes that either connect to an existing home stereo or drive TRUE high end speakers of the consumer’s choice. Apple offers none of this. So no, they can’t compete with Sonos.
Your saying nothing but blah blah blah. Sonos has basically nothing to respond with on the integration side and audio processing side. That's it.
Their previous foray failed because it tried to do a Sonos or Bose, this is a pretty different tack Apple is taking.
Breaking your margins as a defensive move against a company with deep pockets like Apple is NEVER A GOOD IDEA, yet that's all they really got term.
If they have to depend of third parties like Alexa integration for their survival, they've lost the plot and must turn around their ship.;
Amazon and Google will eat their low end and Apple will eat into their high end; the result reduced profits and revenues.
The cut revenues and profits starts with this promotion.
the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos. Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.
Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.
Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds. Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.
Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants. Seems like a no brainer to me.
The Watch Industry would disagree with you. They thought that they didn't need to worry either.
I don’t think you can compare the two. Apple did build a better watch. But HomePod doesn’t offer anything truly better than other products. And it’s limited in what services it supports. Plus it’s not a solution for home theater or people who want to buy true high end speakers for the home. Maybe one day Apple will offer a range of home audio products like Sonos does, but until then HomePod is just another Wi-Fi speaker.
It adapts to the room dynamically (and according to what it plays), AKA it offers something truly different and better,
When Sonos is close to bankruptcy, come back to see me.
the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos. Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.
Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.
Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds. Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.
Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants. Seems like a no brainer to me.
So we shouldn't compare the Homepod to One or play 1, yet you are guaranteeing that Homepod doesn't sound as good as a speaker that is priced at at least 150.00 more than Homepod, I have seen the Play 5 for 499.00 ( best price ). Have you heard them both side by side to make that statement? If so how did you accomplish that because I would like to do the same.
Then you go on to compare products from the Sonos line that are not even in the same category as homepod ( Connect, connect amp )? You seem to have a bone to pick with people claiming audiophile quality from the Homepod, so you do your best to downplay it in comparison to sonos. Why is it so hard to accept that Apple may have made a really good sounding speaker here, leaving the over used " audiophile" word out of it?
If we take a step back here for a minute the definition of Audiophile is " a person who is especially interested in high-fidelity sound reproduction". It's not about price or name brand. So is it impossible for Apple to make anything that is considered high fidelity?
Isn't it great. 52 comments and we haven't heard it yet. I am going to order one. It wont compare with my Legacy Focus speakers, or more than likely my ZVOX 5 series in the bedroom. But I am gonna bet this makes one heck of a nice master bath speaker & personal assistant.
Ouch, £349 is a scary price gouge compared to the US pricing, $349 is around £245, even adding on our 20% VAT would only bring it to £290.
Groan, here we go again...
FYI, there much more to it than just the VAT. Local labor/warehousing/distribution costs, competitor pricing, exchange rates, costs associated with 'take-back' laws, different types of warranties, etc.
Ouch, £349 is a scary price gouge compared to the US pricing, $349 is around £245, even adding on our 20% VAT would only bring it to £290.
Groan, here we go again...
FYI, there much more to it than just the VAT. Local labor/warehousing/distribution costs, competitor pricing, exchange rates, costs associated with 'take-back' laws, different types of warranties, etc.
One thing that's often priced in is exchange risk (Apple is not taking it basically, if the pound has any risk of going down in the next 6 months, it will be right away priced in so they don't have to change the price again). If the risk is significative or unknowable, like say selling in Russia when the Rouble was freefalling down, they'd pick a lower number (but not the lowest) and adjust later.
Just about everything in the UK is the same price in pounds as in dollars, even things made by local companies which tells you that Apple is NOT gouging (or everyone is gouging, pick one).
the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos. Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.
Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.
Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds. Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.
Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants. Seems like a no brainer to me.
The Watch Industry would disagree with you. They thought that they didn't need to worry either.
I don’t think you can compare the two. Apple did build a better watch. But HomePod doesn’t offer anything truly better than other products. And it’s limited in what services it supports. Plus it’s not a solution for home theater or people who want to buy true high end speakers for the home. Maybe one day Apple will offer a range of home audio products like Sonos does, but until then HomePod is just another Wi-Fi speaker.
2) For over 3 years I've been saying how Echo/Alexa is amazing on this forum and for 3 years I've been being told that you're better off just using and iPhone or iPad for Siri. I tried to explain how the multiple, far-field mics make for an in-arguably better experience with a digital personal assistant, but it's fallen on iPhone mics deaf ears. So why can't Apple's expertise with their A-series chip and the channel beaming audio not be better (aka: disruptive innovation).
While you've long banged the drum on how useful Echo is, I still don't see much value in the reasons given. With Siri on my wrist or laying on the table it just hasn't been a big deal. I purport the interest in HP is not having "Siri in the room", but in having a great-sounding shelf speaker and multi-room audio that just works, and Siri stuff second/later.
If "having a great-sounding shelf speaker and multi-room audio that just works" was really your primary goal then you'd have had that for years now. Even with the Echo you can connect wired and wireless speakers that will surely offer better sound than what is possible within the small HomePod casing. The real benefit is being able to do this with voice commands where you don't have to yell, enunciate, repeat yourself, and/or wait for the personal digital assistant to finally ready itself. If you don't see that as a huge benefit for Alexa and the Echo's far-field mics,* then you're not going to understand why the HomePod is better than any quality speaker system that you can send audio from your iOS-based device.
That's just, like, your opinion, man.
First because as stand-alone speakers the Echos & Dots suck. Second because as hubs you start getting complicated. And third, because I'm not interest in deploying marketeer hardware into my home. I trust Apple in ways I do not and likely never will trust Google or Amazon.
Nope. A good, stone-simple solution for multi-room audio isn't here yet. I've seen way too much pain & suffering by my friends with Sonos implementations. One even gave up in frustration and just said "fuck it" and relies on an ATV on the receiver in the living room and got rid of his Sonos solution altogether -- too much hassle (and this is a software manager lol).
FWIW it took me literally under 3 minutes to set up two different music play groups between my 4 Google Home devices. One for the whole house and one for just the master suite and master bath. It's not difficult and certainly not frustrating. And as a bonus they all become effectively "hubs", able to control my thermostats, lights in multiple rooms, two different TV/soundbar systems, make phone calls without my phone, use as a home intercom, and other assorted tasks using any one of them.
Since you've not presumably not spent much if any time with any of these systems you can be forgiven for not understanding the usefulness and simplicity. Once you have your Homepod you'll find yourself wanting a few of the inevitable sub-$100 Homepod Mini's with "good-enough" sound so that you have access to dead-easy just-speak home control beyond the one relatively expensive Homepod in your living room. Grabbing your phone and going thru the motions to do the same as you can just speaking out loud to your Homepod will suddenly seem tedious, faster sometimes to just walk out to the living room and ask... Yeah I have a phone that does Google Assistant connected-home tasks just like your iPhone and Siri but unless I'm out and about and want to check the A/C or turn a couple lights on or off it never gets used for that anymore. So much more convenient to just speak to Google Home hands-free.
You're going to find it's much more convenient to just speak to your Home Pod too. You just don't know it yet.
the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos. Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.
Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.
Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds. Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.
Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants. Seems like a no brainer to me.
"Apple can’t compete with Sonos."
Hah! Famous last words. Just ask Blackberry and Amazon how well the phone biz is working out for them now. What was the market share of every MP3 player compared to the iPod?
It's good that Sonos appears to not share your opinion. They do have a lot to worry about. The industry's best-run and most successful HARDWARE company just decided to play in their sandbox. So, this is probably a smart defensive move to keep their dealers happy for a few more minutes.
As they've done before, I'd bet Apple opens up HomePod to 3rd parties gradually. I believe you'll see more music and other services offered soon. Maybe even announced at WWDC this year.
That said, I believe Sonos doesn't think this is a "no-brainer" and may or may not survive or grow by going in directions that Apple is not. Can their "better" stuff support the business with decreased sales of their entry-level product? I don't know, but it looks like they may find out.
Hate to break it to you, but Apple already tried to play in the high end speaker sandbox and we all know how well the iPod HiFi sold. Don’t be so cocky. Everything Apple touches isn’t a guaranteed success and HomePod offers no stand out features.
And no, Apple can’t compete with Sonos. I’m not saying that HomePod is a bad product. I’m sure it sounds great. But it’s one product. Sonos offers a range of products from simple Wi-Fi speakers like HomePod to soundbars and subs for home theater setups to speakerless boxes that either connect to an existing home stereo or drive TRUE high end speakers of the consumer’s choice. Apple offers none of this. So no, they can’t compete with Sonos.
1. Bringing up a "failed" product from 11 years ago doesn't help your argument in the least especially since the only thing they have in common is playing music. EVERYTHING else about the product is different. Saying they iPod Hi-Fi and the HomePod are both speakers, is like saying the Newton and the iPhone are both just handheld devices... "The Newton failed so why is Apple bothering to make the iPhone?"
2. The HomePod interacts directly with Apple Music via Siri. Now YOU may not be interested in that feature, but I'm sure there are a few million Apple Music subscribers who find that to be an extremely high value-added capability.
3. There's a certain fallacy in saying "Apple can't compete with Sonos". While Apple may not compete in every segment of the market that Sonos does, they certainly can and are competing with Sonos in the mid-range. Does that mean Apple will overtake Sonos in that market, absolutely not. Nor do I believe Apple wants to do that or even cares.
3.a. As a rule in business, you don't need a product in every category your competitor does to truly compete, all you need is a better product in your competitor's "main" category. If Sonos makes most of its revenue from the mid-range speaker market, then they have A LOT to fear from the HomePod and, to a lesser extent, the Google Home Max. Sonos makes all of its money from the home speaker market, losing any number of possible sales could be detrimental to their bottom line.
the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos. Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.
Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.
Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds. Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.
Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants. Seems like a no brainer to me.
The Watch Industry would disagree with you. They thought that they didn't need to worry either.
I don’t think you can compare the two. Apple did build a better watch. But HomePod doesn’t offer anything truly better than other products. And it’s limited in what services it supports. Plus it’s not a solution for home theater or people who want to buy true high end speakers for the home. Maybe one day Apple will offer a range of home audio products like Sonos does, but until then HomePod is just another Wi-Fi speaker.
2) For over 3 years I've been saying how Echo/Alexa is amazing on this forum and for 3 years I've been being told that you're better off just using and iPhone or iPad for Siri. I tried to explain how the multiple, far-field mics make for an in-arguably better experience with a digital personal assistant, but it's fallen on iPhone mics deaf ears. So why can't Apple's expertise with their A-series chip and the channel beaming audio not be better (aka: disruptive innovation).
While you've long banged the drum on how useful Echo is, I still don't see much value in the reasons given. With Siri on my wrist or laying on the table it just hasn't been a big deal. I purport the interest in HP is not having "Siri in the room", but in having a great-sounding shelf speaker and multi-room audio that just works, and Siri stuff second/later.
If "having a great-sounding shelf speaker and multi-room audio that just works" was really your primary goal then you'd have had that for years now. Even with the Echo you can connect wired and wireless speakers that will surely offer better sound than what is possible within the small HomePod casing. The real benefit is being able to do this with voice commands where you don't have to yell, enunciate, repeat yourself, and/or wait for the personal digital assistant to finally ready itself. If you don't see that as a huge benefit for Alexa and the Echo's far-field mics,* then you're not going to understand why the HomePod is better than any quality speaker system that you can send audio from your iOS-based device.
That's just, like, your opinion, man.
First because as stand-alone speakers the Echos & Dots suck. Second because as hubs you start getting complicated. And third, because I'm not interest in deploying marketeer hardware into my home. I trust Apple in ways I do not and likely never will trust Google or Amazon.
Nope. A good, stone-simple solution for multi-room audio isn't here yet. I've seen way too much pain & suffering by my friends with Sonos implementations. One even gave up in frustration and just said "fuck it" and relies on an ATV on the receiver in the living room and got rid of his Sonos solution altogether -- too much hassle (and this is a software manager lol).
FWIW it took me literally under 3 minutes to set up two different music play groups between my 4 Google Home devices. One for the whole house and one for just the master suite and master bath. It's not difficult and certainly not frustrating. And as a bonus they all become effectively "hubs", able to control my thermostats, lights in multiple rooms, two different TV/soundbar systems, make phone calls without my phone, use as a home intercom, and other assorted tasks using any one of them.
Since you've not presumably not spent much if any time with any of these systems you can be forgiven for not understanding the usefulness and simplicity. Once you have your Homepod you'll find yourself wanting a few of the inevitable sub-$100 Homepod Mini's with "good-enough" sound so that you have access to dead-easy just-speak home control beyond the one relatively expensive Homepod in your living room. Grabbing your phone and going thru the motions to do the same as you can just speaking out loud to your Homepod will suddenly seem tedious, faster sometimes to just walk out to the living room and ask... Yeah I have a phone that does Google Assistant connected-home tasks just like your iPhone and Siri but unless I'm out and about and want to check the A/C or turn a couple lights on or off it never gets used for that anymore. So much more convenient to just speak to Google Home hands-free.
You're going to find it's much more convenient to just speak to your Home Pod too. You just don't know it yet.
Sorry but that’s arrogant nonsense. I don’t have Sonos but I have multiple friends who do, with multiple problems. Both normals and software guys. Why don’t you explain to my fellow software developer that it really is “simple” and we’re just “confused” because you said Google is awesome?
And no, after getting my HP as a high quality shelf speaker, I won’t find that I want more mini units around the house for voice control. You’re clearly ignorant of how Siri works, since you don’t have an iphone or watch and are clueless as to how they work. I never need to “grab” my phone to issue home automation commands (which i do daily) - I either raise my wrist and issue to the watch on my very person, or speak it to whatever iphone or ipads are laying nearby, as they always are in the living room, bedroom, kitchen counter, etc. I’m already doing this stuff and have never needed any junk plugged into the wall to do it. So much for your theory.
I wouldnt ever suggest my non techie dad try to setup a Sonos network. But if Apple makes multi room as simple as they’re suggesting or we’re expecting, I wouldn’t hesitate to suggest HomePods.
the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos. Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.
Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.
Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds. Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.
Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants. Seems like a no brainer to me.
The Watch Industry would disagree with you. They thought that they didn't need to worry either.
I don’t think you can compare the two. Apple did build a better watch. But HomePod doesn’t offer anything truly better than other products. And it’s limited in what services it supports. Plus it’s not a solution for home theater or people who want to buy true high end speakers for the home. Maybe one day Apple will offer a range of home audio products like Sonos does, but until then HomePod is just another Wi-Fi speaker.
2) For over 3 years I've been saying how Echo/Alexa is amazing on this forum and for 3 years I've been being told that you're better off just using and iPhone or iPad for Siri. I tried to explain how the multiple, far-field mics make for an in-arguably better experience with a digital personal assistant, but it's fallen on iPhone mics deaf ears. So why can't Apple's expertise with their A-series chip and the channel beaming audio not be better (aka: disruptive innovation).
While you've long banged the drum on how useful Echo is, I still don't see much value in the reasons given. With Siri on my wrist or laying on the table it just hasn't been a big deal. I purport the interest in HP is not having "Siri in the room", but in having a great-sounding shelf speaker and multi-room audio that just works, and Siri stuff second/later.
If "having a great-sounding shelf speaker and multi-room audio that just works" was really your primary goal then you'd have had that for years now. Even with the Echo you can connect wired and wireless speakers that will surely offer better sound than what is possible within the small HomePod casing. The real benefit is being able to do this with voice commands where you don't have to yell, enunciate, repeat yourself, and/or wait for the personal digital assistant to finally ready itself. If you don't see that as a huge benefit for Alexa and the Echo's far-field mics,* then you're not going to understand why the HomePod is better than any quality speaker system that you can send audio from your iOS-based device.
That's just, like, your opinion, man.
First because as stand-alone speakers the Echos & Dots suck. Second because as hubs you start getting complicated. And third, because I'm not interest in deploying marketeer hardware into my home. I trust Apple in ways I do not and likely never will trust Google or Amazon.
Nope. A good, stone-simple solution for multi-room audio isn't here yet. I've seen way too much pain & suffering by my friends with Sonos implementations. One even gave up in frustration and just said "fuck it" and relies on an ATV on the receiver in the living room and got rid of his Sonos solution altogether -- too much hassle (and this is a software manager lol).
FWIW it took me literally under 3 minutes to set up two different music play groups between my 4 Google Home devices. One for the whole house and one for just the master suite and master bath. It's not difficult and certainly not frustrating. And as a bonus they all become effectively "hubs", able to control my thermostats, lights in multiple rooms, two different TV/soundbar systems, make phone calls without my phone, use as a home intercom, and other assorted tasks using any one of them.
Since you've not presumably not spent much if any time with any of these systems you can be forgiven for not understanding the usefulness and simplicity. Once you have your Homepod you'll find yourself wanting a few of the inevitable sub-$100 Homepod Mini's with "good-enough" sound so that you have access to dead-easy just-speak home control beyond the one relatively expensive Homepod in your living room. Grabbing your phone and going thru the motions to do the same as you can just speaking out loud to your Homepod will suddenly seem tedious, faster sometimes to just walk out to the living room and ask... Yeah I have a phone that does Google Assistant connected-home tasks just like your iPhone and Siri but unless I'm out and about and want to check the A/C or turn a couple lights on or off it never gets used for that anymore. So much more convenient to just speak to Google Home hands-free.
You're going to find it's much more convenient to just speak to your Home Pod too. You just don't know it yet.
Sorry but that’s arrogant nonsense. I don’t have Sonos but I have multiple friends who do, with multiple problems. Both normals and software guys. Why don’t you explain to my fellow software developer that it really is “simple” and we’re just “confused” because you said Google is awesome?
And no, after getting my HP as a high quality shelf speaker, I won’t find that I want more mini units around the house for voice control. You’re clearly ignorant of how Siri works, since you don’t have an iphone or watch and are clueless as to how they work. I never need to “grab” my phone to issue home automation commands (which i do daily) - I either raise my wrist and issue to the watch on my very person, or speak it to whatever iphone or ipads are laying nearby, as they always are in the living room, bedroom, kitchen counter, etc. I’m already doing this stuff and have never needed any junk plugged into the wall to do it. So much for your theory.
I wouldnt ever suggest my non techie dad try to setup a Sonos network. But if Apple makes multi room as simple as they’re suggesting or we’re expecting, I wouldn’t hesitate to suggest HomePods.
Essentially Siri works no different than Google Assistant and can work just fine with a voice request while laying on a table next to me. But instead of "on a table" it's quite often holstered, or in another room, or on the counter or left in my truck or... And the Home units have much better far-field mics and far more likely to hear a command/query in a noisy room than my phone on the table anyway as you'll find out for yourself soon enough.
So I'll wager you'll change your tune after getting your Home Pod and the Home Pod Mini's are released. You'll buy em because they're convenient and good-enough.
the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos. Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.
Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.
Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds. Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.
Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants. Seems like a no brainer to me.
"Apple can’t compete with Sonos."
Hah! Famous last words. Just ask Blackberry and Amazon how well the phone biz is working out for them now. What was the market share of every MP3 player compared to the iPod?
It's good that Sonos appears to not share your opinion. They do have a lot to worry about. The industry's best-run and most successful HARDWARE company just decided to play in their sandbox. So, this is probably a smart defensive move to keep their dealers happy for a few more minutes.
As they've done before, I'd bet Apple opens up HomePod to 3rd parties gradually. I believe you'll see more music and other services offered soon. Maybe even announced at WWDC this year.
That said, I believe Sonos doesn't think this is a "no-brainer" and may or may not survive or grow by going in directions that Apple is not. Can their "better" stuff support the business with decreased sales of their entry-level product? I don't know, but it looks like they may find out.
I cannot replace my Sonos system with HP, at least not yet. No way to drive my outside speakers (Connect:Amp), or feed it input from sources like TVs (Sonos speakers supplement workout TV audio for loud treadmill). I’m also pretty OK with having at least one set of gadgets that are outside the Apple ecosystem (iOS 11 on my iPhone 6 has been a hot mess, and my first Sonos speaker, which is still getting updates, is about as old as my Apple TV was when its support ended).
Comments
Sonos cutting their price on that speaker doesn't mean their gear is any more 'overpriced' than Apple's or anybody else's gear. There's a huge markup in general on electronics. Always has been.
Ouch, £349 is a scary price gouge
How is that a gouge if it's purely an elective product? It's not like you're charging $100 a visit to pay toilets. (Do they even have those anymore?)
With Siri on my wrist or laying on the table it just hasn't been a big deal.
Maybe for you. But I've found Siri problematic on many an occasion. Not to mention if I have my phone and an iPad charging and use my Watch for Siri, sometimes all three will try to help and sometimes none of them are successful. Siri needs a lot of work.
The real benefit is being able to do this with voice commands where you don't have to yell, enunciate, repeat yourself, and/or wait for the personal digital assistant to finally ready itself.
I've had all these problems several times with using Siri, and more so for home automation. Two Echo Dots now take up the personal assistant slack and I find myself calling to Alexa far more often then Siri.
That said, Alexa still gives me 'Sorry, your Echo Dot has lost its connection' or just lights up and then goes out without a sound. Often when Alexa fails, Siri comes through. They both have different strengths and weaknesses. I hate saying 'Hey, Siri...' and wish I could just say 'Siri...' And I'm in the minority, I'm sure, but I dislike the constant improvement in making Siri's voices more life like. The current iterations sound too 'perky' to me and the contrast from the times it handles a sentence well to the times it doesn't really bothers me. So give me the more robotic Siri of yore.
And I think the HomePod's professed ability to provide good sounding music to every part of a room, if successful, is just as much a real benefit as accessing Siri everywhere in the room.
That's just, like, your opinion, man.
Dude! Like totally! As is all your diatribe about Echos, Dots, hubs, and marketeers. (LOL) And really, to be fair, the Dot wasn't meant to provide good sounding musical content. Get real, dude. You may find a standalone speaker the size of the Dot that doesn't 'suck', whatever that means. Not likely but maybe possible. And it won't have any of the Echo features. BT a better speaker for better sound or even plug in a Monobloc and a Krell or something if you want sound that doesn't 'suck'. Apples and oranges. Dude.
Nope. A good, stone-simple solution for multi-room audio isn't here yet.
Still opinion, but I happen to agree. But that may change and the change may start on Feb. 9.
2) Within the last 6 months I did get my first "lights up and then goes out without a sound" results, which is a huge fail in my book since it offers no data to the user. I'm not sure if it was an Echo OS (local) update, an Alexa (server-side) update, a Sirius XM skill update, and/or a policy change, but I use to be able to say, "Alexa, Howard 100" and it would know that I meant Sirius XM. Now I have to say some variant where I tell it to play Sirius XM.
A Spotify representative told Business Insider, pointing out that users will be able to play Spotify on the HomePod speaker by using the AirPlay feature from an iPhone or iPad. Users will control the music by tapping around the Spotify smartphone app, rather than by using verbal commands.
http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-homepod-spotify-2017-10
U.S. exports will improve, imports will get more expensive.
Then you go on to compare products from the Sonos line that are not even in the same category as homepod ( Connect, connect amp )? You seem to have a bone to pick with people claiming audiophile quality from the Homepod, so you do your best to downplay it in comparison to sonos. Why is it so hard to accept that Apple may have made a really good sounding speaker here, leaving the over used " audiophile" word out of it?
If we take a step back here for a minute the definition of Audiophile is " a person who is especially interested in high-fidelity sound reproduction". It's not about price or name brand. So is it impossible for Apple to make anything that is considered high fidelity?
FYI, there much more to it than just the VAT. Local labor/warehousing/distribution costs, competitor pricing, exchange rates, costs associated with 'take-back' laws, different types of warranties, etc.
Since you've not presumably not spent much if any time with any of these systems you can be forgiven for not understanding the usefulness and simplicity. Once you have your Homepod you'll find yourself wanting a few of the inevitable sub-$100 Homepod Mini's with "good-enough" sound so that you have access to dead-easy just-speak home control beyond the one relatively expensive Homepod in your living room. Grabbing your phone and going thru the motions to do the same as you can just speaking out loud to your Homepod will suddenly seem tedious, faster sometimes to just walk out to the living room and ask...
Yeah I have a phone that does Google Assistant connected-home tasks just like your iPhone and Siri but unless I'm out and about and want to check the A/C or turn a couple lights on or off it never gets used for that anymore. So much more convenient to just speak to Google Home hands-free.
You're going to find it's much more convenient to just speak to your Home Pod too. You just don't know it yet.
1. Bringing up a "failed" product from 11 years ago doesn't help your argument in the least especially since the only thing they have in common is playing music. EVERYTHING else about the product is different. Saying they iPod Hi-Fi and the HomePod are both speakers, is like saying the Newton and the iPhone are both just handheld devices... "The Newton failed so why is Apple bothering to make the iPhone?"
2. The HomePod interacts directly with Apple Music via Siri. Now YOU may not be interested in that feature, but I'm sure there are a few million Apple Music subscribers who find that to be an extremely high value-added capability.
3. There's a certain fallacy in saying "Apple can't compete with Sonos". While Apple may not compete in every segment of the market that Sonos does, they certainly can and are competing with Sonos in the mid-range. Does that mean Apple will overtake Sonos in that market, absolutely not. Nor do I believe Apple wants to do that or even cares.
3.a. As a rule in business, you don't need a product in every category your competitor does to truly compete, all you need is a better product in your competitor's "main" category. If Sonos makes most of its revenue from the mid-range speaker market, then they have A LOT to fear from the HomePod and, to a lesser extent, the Google Home Max. Sonos makes all of its money from the home speaker market, losing any number of possible sales could be detrimental to their bottom line.
And no, after getting my HP as a high quality shelf speaker, I won’t find that I want more mini units around the house for voice control. You’re clearly ignorant of how Siri works, since you don’t have an iphone or watch and are clueless as to how they work. I never need to “grab” my phone to issue home automation commands (which i do daily) - I either raise my wrist and issue to the watch on my very person, or speak it to whatever iphone or ipads are laying nearby, as they always are in the living room, bedroom, kitchen counter, etc. I’m already doing this stuff and have never needed any junk plugged into the wall to do it. So much for your theory.
I wouldnt ever suggest my non techie dad try to setup a Sonos network. But if Apple makes multi room as simple as they’re suggesting or we’re expecting, I wouldn’t hesitate to suggest HomePods.
So I'll wager you'll change your tune after getting your Home Pod and the Home Pod Mini's are released. You'll buy em because they're convenient and good-enough.