Apple's iOS App Store users spent $11.5 billion in Q4, 95% more than Google Play

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 29
    TutTut said:
    That graph is wrong. The bottom of the “95%” line should be at the level of the green staple, not the 5B line.
    I saw that too.... bonehead move!!
  • Reply 22 of 29
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,282member
    kkqd1337 said:

    Out of interest; if Google are 'having little influence in China' who is?
    Uhh, Apple.

    you need to realize that the bulk of cell-phone sales in China are dumb-phones.
    Really? Who is selling all those "dumbphones"?

    I think you might be mistaken sir.  If you look you'll find that Huawei and Xiaomi have the highest market-share in China.
    But guess who's down and fading away quarter by quarter there....








    Samsung! 
    down to just 2.2% share as of December. They used to be a force in China. 
    edited January 2018 muthuk_vanalingamksec
  • Reply 23 of 29
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    Google's Android store is pushing record numbers of app downloads to its users, with growth largely coming from developing countries. Android's ecosystem remains far less profitable than Apple's iOS App Store, however, which again grabbed the lion's share of customer spend on mobile apps despite handling fewer than half as many downloads. Of a total a $17 billion spent on mobile apps, Apple accounted for $11.5 billion, leaving Google with the scraps: around $5 billion
    Some kinda scraps, taking 30% of that $5B for themselves to the tune of $1.5 billion for a single quarter?  Hey it's not Apple. OK. It's still a more profitable venture than many Fortune 1000 companies.

    To the poster who asked about China and why that matters: According to the AI article China is Apple's most profitable market, surpassing even the US, and a country where Google has no Play Store and thus no app income. Games are a BIG DEAL in China, and games and the associated in-app purchases account for roughly 75% of Apple's total App Store revenues. 

    EDIT: TBH I didn't even know about subscribing to Netflix via a smartphone app. I would'a thought most folks would just subscribe direct, or via the link when they use a smart TV or Roku. So now I know.
    Leave it to our resident Google PR representative to attempt to put ANY kind of positive spin on this DISMAL stat for Google.

    This just reinforces that Harvard study done that Android users are financially less secure and lower education, and tend to go much more for the free crap apps whenever they can, or blatantly steal from third-party sources and end up with infected devices.
    Dismal? LOL. You should have such a dismal future. Yes Google makes less money than Apple. What company doesn't? Anyone compared to Apple comes out on the short side. You needed reassurance?

    And as far as Android buyers having less disposable cash than iPhone buyers that's another no-brainer, no Harvard study required (obviously). Ya got more money and ya' got less worry about the budget and ya buy more expensive stuff...
    but we need a study to demonstrate that. :)


    No, it's dismal for Google (actually for Android users), and as usual, you completely missed the point of this. Or maybe you didn't, but tried to put in your best effort to spin this as a positive for Google. It's not.

    The main advantage of using iOS or Android is to be a part of an ecosystem. You need a certain critical mass of users in order to have a thriving ecosystem where you get to choose from a wide selection of Apps and other services to use. Unfortunately for Google, all those users and App downloads are doing nothing to improve the Android ecosystem.

    First off we need to consider the fact most Android devices are low-end. While people love to talk about the latest Samsung Galaxy or Google Pixel, the fact is these devices are only a small fraction of the Android devices people actually buy. People who spend $50-100 on a phone are not likely to be spending money on Apps or services. Which is why we see the majority of Apps on Android being of the "free to download" variety often monetized with ads. What incentive does a developer have to create a high-end App for Android when the number of users who might buy it (Galaxy and Pixel owners) is so small? All those people with cheap devices aren't contributing back to the Android ecosystem by spending money on Apps (and enticing developers to create new ones).

    Secondly, you mentioned third party Android stores (of which there are a lot). Most of these are tied specifically to device manufacturers or carriers. They might be running a version of Android, but they are nothing more than a closed system (like iOS) under the control of that manufacturer or carrier. A lot of them are also tied to regions (like Chinese or Indian App stores). Developers writing Apps for these stores don't port their Apps to each others stores or make them available on Google Play or The App Store. They are each in their own little private ecosystem, and as such they're not offering anything of value back to the real Android ecosystem (Google Play) or its users.

    Which leaves us with Google Play vs The App Store - the only two ecosystems that really matter. Sure Google is making billions off the Google Play Store. But that's not the real purpose of having an App store. The point of having an ecosystem is to make all those devices people have do things they find useful or entertaining. This requires that companies and developers continue to make new products/services for your particular ecosystem. And this is why Apple is winning in this space.

    Any company looking to introduce a new product or service is going to weigh the costs of developing that product vs the expected number of customers they can find for it (which leads to potential revenue). When these companies look at iOS users vs Android users and see that each iOS user generates about 4X the revenue of the average Android user, then where do you think they're going to focus their energy? Eric Schmidt famously predicted back in Dec 2011 that developers would start to favor Android (because they go where the higher number of users are). Yet here we are in 2018 and iOS is still preferred over Android. Hell, all you need to do is look at the sorry state of affairs of Android on tablets for proof of this. Tablet optimized Apps are hard to find on Android (devs just take the easy way out and create universal Apps and let them scale) and there's no real high-end Apps on Android. There's no equivalent to Procreate, Affinity or Pixelmator (to name a few).

    And this is why Google is failing. They're not getting Android (the ecosystem) to expand in the same way iOS has. Sure their download numbers (and revenue) are going up (just like iOS). But while both are spreading out to cover a wide area, Android is just covering the surface whereas iOS has real depth to their App Store.

    Apple is really pushing the iPad Pro (and developers have some great Apps to utilize that power) and blurring the lines between tablet and laptop. Apple develops high-powered processors that are now challenging Intel. They are scaling iOS upmarket, so to speak. And what is Google doing? Offering to let you run inferior Android Apps on an extremely limited wannabee desktop OS (Chrome). Trying to deal with the terrible fragmentation issue on Android with yet another solution (this time Treble). And working on another OS on the side (Fuschia). I don't think Google really knows where it's going or where it wants to be in terms of its OS strategy. Or if it does it's not helping out their developers by providing them with a roadmap so they can prepare.

    Microsoft won the desktop OS war. iOS is winning the mobile OS war. Google is behind on both.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 29
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 4,479member
    gatorguy said:
    Google's Android store is pushing record numbers of app downloads to its users, with growth largely coming from developing countries. Android's ecosystem remains far less profitable than Apple's iOS App Store, however, which again grabbed the lion's share of customer spend on mobile apps despite handling fewer than half as many downloads. Of a total a $17 billion spent on mobile apps, Apple accounted for $11.5 billion, leaving Google with the scraps: around $5 billion
    Some kinda scraps, taking 30% of that $5B for themselves to the tune of $1.5 billion for a single quarter?  Hey it's not Apple. OK. It's still a more profitable venture than many Fortune 1000 companies.

    To the poster who asked about China and why that matters: According to the AI article China is Apple's most profitable market, surpassing even the US, and a country where Google has no Play Store and thus no app income. Games are a BIG DEAL in China, and games and the associated in-app purchases account for roughly 75% of Apple's total App Store revenues. 

    EDIT: TBH I didn't even know about subscribing to Netflix via a smartphone app. I would'a thought most folks would just subscribe direct, or via the link when they use a smart TV or Roku. So now I know.
    You forgot to subtract off the cost to operate the store. The same goes for Apple. 

    Apple said their 30% goes to cover cost, which was probably true in the beginning, today I suspect they reduced their opersting costs. Google operating costs are higher since they need to service more people for less revenue so that $1.5B got eaten up pretty quickly. This is where subscription pay off for Apple incremental income for no additional efforts. I suspect this is where they're make the real money.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 29
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,471member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    Google's Android store is pushing record numbers of app downloads to its users, with growth largely coming from developing countries. Android's ecosystem remains far less profitable than Apple's iOS App Store, however, which again grabbed the lion's share of customer spend on mobile apps despite handling fewer than half as many downloads. Of a total a $17 billion spent on mobile apps, Apple accounted for $11.5 billion, leaving Google with the scraps: around $5 billion
    Some kinda scraps, taking 30% of that $5B for themselves to the tune of $1.5 billion for a single quarter?  Hey it's not Apple. OK. It's still a more profitable venture than many Fortune 1000 companies.

    To the poster who asked about China and why that matters: According to the AI article China is Apple's most profitable market, surpassing even the US, and a country where Google has no Play Store and thus no app income. Games are a BIG DEAL in China, and games and the associated in-app purchases account for roughly 75% of Apple's total App Store revenues. 

    EDIT: TBH I didn't even know about subscribing to Netflix via a smartphone app. I would'a thought most folks would just subscribe direct, or via the link when they use a smart TV or Roku. So now I know.
    Leave it to our resident Google PR representative to attempt to put ANY kind of positive spin on this DISMAL stat for Google.

    This just reinforces that Harvard study done that Android users are financially less secure and lower education, and tend to go much more for the free crap apps whenever they can, or blatantly steal from third-party sources and end up with infected devices.
    Dismal? LOL. You should have such a dismal future. Yes Google makes less money than Apple. What company doesn't? Anyone compared to Apple comes out on the short side. You needed reassurance?

    And as far as Android buyers having less disposable cash than iPhone buyers that's another no-brainer, no Harvard study required (obviously). Ya got more money and ya' got less worry about the budget and ya buy more expensive stuff...
    but we need a study to demonstrate that. :)


    No, it's dismal for Google (actually for Android users), and as usual, you completely missed the point of this. Or maybe you didn't, but tried to put in your best effort to spin this as a positive for Google. It's not.

    The main advantage of using iOS or Android is to be a part of an ecosystem. You need a certain critical mass of users in order to have a thriving ecosystem where you get to choose from a wide selection of Apps and other services to use. Unfortunately for Google, all those users and App downloads are doing nothing to improve the Android ecosystem.

    First off we need to consider the fact most Android devices are low-end. While people love to talk about the latest Samsung Galaxy or Google Pixel, the fact is these devices are only a small fraction of the Android devices people actually buy. People who spend $50-100 on a phone are not likely to be spending money on Apps or services. Which is why we see the majority of Apps on Android being of the "free to download" variety often monetized with ads. What incentive does a developer have to create a high-end App for Android when the number of users who might buy it (Galaxy and Pixel owners) is so small? All those people with cheap devices aren't contributing back to the Android ecosystem by spending money on Apps (and enticing developers to create new ones).

    Secondly, you mentioned third party Android stores (of which there are a lot). Most of these are tied specifically to device manufacturers or carriers. They might be running a version of Android, but they are nothing more than a closed system (like iOS) under the control of that manufacturer or carrier. A lot of them are also tied to regions (like Chinese or Indian App stores). Developers writing Apps for these stores don't port their Apps to each others stores or make them available on Google Play or The App Store. They are each in their own little private ecosystem, and as such they're not offering anything of value back to the real Android ecosystem (Google Play) or its users.

    Which leaves us with Google Play vs The App Store - the only two ecosystems that really matter. Sure Google is making billions off the Google Play Store. But that's not the real purpose of having an App store. The point of having an ecosystem is to make all those devices people have do things they find useful or entertaining. This requires that companies and developers continue to make new products/services for your particular ecosystem. And this is why Apple is winning in this space.

    Any company looking to introduce a new product or service is going to weigh the costs of developing that product vs the expected number of customers they can find for it (which leads to potential revenue). When these companies look at iOS users vs Android users and see that each iOS user generates about 4X the revenue of the average Android user, then where do you think they're going to focus their energy? Eric Schmidt famously predicted back in Dec 2011 that developers would start to favor Android (because they go where the higher number of users are). Yet here we are in 2018 and iOS is still preferred over Android. Hell, all you need to do is look at the sorry state of affairs of Android on tablets for proof of this. Tablet optimized Apps are hard to find on Android (devs just take the easy way out and create universal Apps and let them scale) and there's no real high-end Apps on Android. There's no equivalent to Procreate, Affinity or Pixelmator (to name a few).

    And this is why Google is failing. They're not getting Android (the ecosystem) to expand in the same way iOS has. Sure their download numbers (and revenue) are going up (just like iOS). But while both are spreading out to cover a wide area, Android is just covering the surface whereas iOS has real depth to their App Store.

    Apple is really pushing the iPad Pro (and developers have some great Apps to utilize that power) and blurring the lines between tablet and laptop. Apple develops high-powered processors that are now challenging Intel. They are scaling iOS upmarket, so to speak. And what is Google doing? Offering to let you run inferior Android Apps on an extremely limited wannabee desktop OS (Chrome). Trying to deal with the terrible fragmentation issue on Android with yet another solution (this time Treble). And working on another OS on the side (Fuschia). I don't think Google really knows where it's going or where it wants to be in terms of its OS strategy. Or if it does it's not helping out their developers by providing them with a roadmap so they can prepare.

    Microsoft won the desktop OS war. iOS is winning the mobile OS war. Google is behind on both.
    Just a few comments:

    "Most Android devices are low end"

    Even if most Android phones were between the 50-100 mark, that is not where Android growth is. Android growth was a few tiers up (300-399 mainly) and included the premium segment too. In fact, I wonder what the premium number would now be if we tallied up all Android premium phones.

    "The main advantage of using iOS is to be part of an ecosystem"

    You would have to define 'ecosystem' and tally up the pros and cons but arguably Android itself is also an ecosystem but one where the users themselves erect the walls and establish the limits.

    You mention Android and 'high end apps' and imply that there is little motivation to bring them to Android but then casually throw in the 'tablet' line. Is this about phones or tablets or both as you also threw in Pixel and Galaxy references? How many people actually use high end apps and where? I can assure you that if the vast majority of users are on Android phones, by your own logic, only a fraction are using high end apps on them, which in turn highlights why some aren't available on Android although some apps are available on Android and not iOS. The truth though may be different to what you are painting (no pun intended). To know for sure you'd have to give real examples and see if equivalent apps are really available. You gave three tablet examples. Tablet because using those apps on anything other than a tablet wouldn't be a great idea and for those apps you mention blurring the lines between tablets and laptops but not the lines between phones and tablets. That isn't a very big number and as I said, throws tablets into the mix. It's a good idea to separate the two as some people have Android phones and iOS tablets and I am one of them. That said, many people can get by on Android phones (which I think is where you are at due to your Pixel and Galaxy references) very happily with a collection of social media apps and basic Google Services. In the case of the Chinese, WeChat is basically a self contained platform that sits on the host device.

    On a separate note, it's worth noting that early last year, AppAnnie forecast that combined Android App revenues would possibly overtake iOS by year end. I have no idea how that played out as I don't have access to the full report but the headline of this piece is for Play Store only. If it had included all Android Store revenues I think the 95% part would lose a lot of its shine.




    edited January 2018 singularity
  • Reply 26 of 29
    ksecksec Posts: 1,551member
    kkqd1337 said:

    Out of interest; if Google are 'having little influence in China' who is?
    Uhh, Apple.

    you need to realize that the bulk of cell-phone sales in China are dumb-phones.
    LOL.
  • Reply 27 of 29
    ksecksec Posts: 1,551member
    I think it would be better to mention if they include China Android, the sales number are roughly the same.

    And Google wasn't locked out of China, they just decided to not operate in that market.

    And just to point out, Google are entering China again.

    But as you know, is an DED article. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 28 of 29
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,471member
    ksec said:
    I think it would be better to mention if they include China Android, the sales number are roughly the same.

    And Google wasn't locked out of China, they just decided to not operate in that market.

    And just to point out, Google are entering China again.

    But as you know, is an DED article. 
    Yes. The title of this piece is crystal clear but things went off the rails in the first paragraph:

    "Android's ecosystem remains far less profitable than Apple's iOS App Store, however, which again grabbed the lion's share of customer spend on mobile apps despite handling fewer than half as many downloads"

    Is it Play Store or Android's ecosystem?

    If it's 'Android's ecosystem', shouldn't all app stores for Android be taken into account?

    Especially as the article then brings this up:


    "... despite having little influence in China, the world's largest and most commercially important audience of app users."

    "App users". Of course that is devoid of any platform reference so undoubtedly includes both iOS and Android. So what are we supposed to conclude from that?

    App Annie had already made a forecast in March 2017 that included this (my bolding):

    "
    As app store revenue per device continues to grow, the iOS App Store is projected to remain the leading app store for the next five years — it’s slated to generate more than $60 billion in gross consumer spend in 2021. However, when factoring in Google Play and third-party Android stores combined, consumer spend should overtake iOS for the first time ever in 2017, thanks to their dominant smart device market share and strong installed base growth"

    https://www.appannie.com/en/insights/market-data/app-annie-forecast-2017-mobile-app-store-revenue-exceed-139-billion-2021/

    I wonder how much of that became reality?

    If we are talking solely about Play Store we have Q4 numbers but I have to wonder about 2017 numbers?

    If we are talking about app revenue in the context of 'Android's ecosystem' is that synonymous of 'Play Store' or something completely different? Are Q4 and full year 2017 numbers available from App Annie?




    edited January 2018
  • Reply 29 of 29
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    Google's Android store is pushing record numbers of app downloads to its users, with growth largely coming from developing countries. Android's ecosystem remains far less profitable than Apple's iOS App Store, however, which again grabbed the lion's share of customer spend on mobile apps despite handling fewer than half as many downloads. Of a total a $17 billion spent on mobile apps, Apple accounted for $11.5 billion, leaving Google with the scraps: around $5 billion
    Some kinda scraps, taking 30% of that $5B for themselves to the tune of $1.5 billion for a single quarter?  Hey it's not Apple. OK. It's still a more profitable venture than many Fortune 1000 companies.

    To the poster who asked about China and why that matters: According to the AI article China is Apple's most profitable market, surpassing even the US, and a country where Google has no Play Store and thus no app income. Games are a BIG DEAL in China, and games and the associated in-app purchases account for roughly 75% of Apple's total App Store revenues. 

    EDIT: TBH I didn't even know about subscribing to Netflix via a smartphone app. I would'a thought most folks would just subscribe direct, or via the link when they use a smart TV or Roku. So now I know.
    Leave it to our resident Google PR representative to attempt to put ANY kind of positive spin on this DISMAL stat for Google.

    This just reinforces that Harvard study done that Android users are financially less secure and lower education, and tend to go much more for the free crap apps whenever they can, or blatantly steal from third-party sources and end up with infected devices.
    Dismal? LOL. You should have such a dismal future. Yes Google makes less money than Apple. What company doesn't? Anyone compared to Apple comes out on the short side. You needed reassurance?

    And as far as Android buyers having less disposable cash than iPhone buyers that's another no-brainer, no Harvard study required (obviously). Ya got more money and ya' got less worry about the budget and ya buy more expensive stuff...
    but we need a study to demonstrate that. :)


    No, it's dismal for Google (actually for Android users), and as usual, you completely missed the point of this. Or maybe you didn't, but tried to put in your best effort to spin this as a positive for Google. It's not.

    The main advantage of using iOS or Android is to be a part of an ecosystem. You need a certain critical mass of users in order to have a thriving ecosystem where you get to choose from a wide selection of Apps and other services to use. Unfortunately for Google, all those users and App downloads are doing nothing to improve the Android ecosystem.

    First off we need to consider the fact most Android devices are low-end. While people love to talk about the latest Samsung Galaxy or Google Pixel, the fact is these devices are only a small fraction of the Android devices people actually buy. People who spend $50-100 on a phone are not likely to be spending money on Apps or services. Which is why we see the majority of Apps on Android being of the "free to download" variety often monetized with ads. What incentive does a developer have to create a high-end App for Android when the number of users who might buy it (Galaxy and Pixel owners) is so small? All those people with cheap devices aren't contributing back to the Android ecosystem by spending money on Apps (and enticing developers to create new ones).

    Secondly, you mentioned third party Android stores (of which there are a lot). Most of these are tied specifically to device manufacturers or carriers. They might be running a version of Android, but they are nothing more than a closed system (like iOS) under the control of that manufacturer or carrier. A lot of them are also tied to regions (like Chinese or Indian App stores). Developers writing Apps for these stores don't port their Apps to each others stores or make them available on Google Play or The App Store. They are each in their own little private ecosystem, and as such they're not offering anything of value back to the real Android ecosystem (Google Play) or its users.

    Which leaves us with Google Play vs The App Store - the only two ecosystems that really matter. Sure Google is making billions off the Google Play Store. But that's not the real purpose of having an App store. The point of having an ecosystem is to make all those devices people have do things they find useful or entertaining. This requires that companies and developers continue to make new products/services for your particular ecosystem. And this is why Apple is winning in this space.

    Any company looking to introduce a new product or service is going to weigh the costs of developing that product vs the expected number of customers they can find for it (which leads to potential revenue). When these companies look at iOS users vs Android users and see that each iOS user generates about 4X the revenue of the average Android user, then where do you think they're going to focus their energy? Eric Schmidt famously predicted back in Dec 2011 that developers would start to favor Android (because they go where the higher number of users are). Yet here we are in 2018 and iOS is still preferred over Android. Hell, all you need to do is look at the sorry state of affairs of Android on tablets for proof of this. Tablet optimized Apps are hard to find on Android (devs just take the easy way out and create universal Apps and let them scale) and there's no real high-end Apps on Android. There's no equivalent to Procreate, Affinity or Pixelmator (to name a few).

    And this is why Google is failing. They're not getting Android (the ecosystem) to expand in the same way iOS has. Sure their download numbers (and revenue) are going up (just like iOS). But while both are spreading out to cover a wide area, Android is just covering the surface whereas iOS has real depth to their App Store.

    Apple is really pushing the iPad Pro (and developers have some great Apps to utilize that power) and blurring the lines between tablet and laptop. Apple develops high-powered processors that are now challenging Intel. They are scaling iOS upmarket, so to speak. And what is Google doing? Offering to let you run inferior Android Apps on an extremely limited wannabee desktop OS (Chrome). Trying to deal with the terrible fragmentation issue on Android with yet another solution (this time Treble). And working on another OS on the side (Fuschia). I don't think Google really knows where it's going or where it wants to be in terms of its OS strategy. Or if it does it's not helping out their developers by providing them with a roadmap so they can prepare.

    Microsoft won the desktop OS war. iOS is winning the mobile OS war. Google is behind on both.
    One thing that would be interesting, beyond revenue, would be product mix. If almost all revenues from apps come from apps that cater to version 4.4 of Android, that would be bad news for Android since it means they'd have almost no pickup from devs on all the API hooks they're adding in later versions. That means it will fall further and further behind on the high end apps that are using the most advanced capability of the OS.

    Google will probably have to resort in building a few of their own as a kind of demonstration of what can be done if this continues. I get the feeling that parts of the reason the Pixel exists is to showcase the best of the API, not just make an "Apple like play".
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