Nest absorbed into Google to better battle HomeKit, Alexa for home automation supremacy

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  • Reply 21 of 40
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    jimh2 said:
    In the end merging into Google will be detrimental to Nest because as we know Google never finishes, much less polishes any product.
    And yet oddly enough, they have been part of Google for several years and offer finished, polished products through multiple generations. Not to mention Chromecast, Home, and Pixel devices.
    Right... You did read wth he wrote, a lot of people already think Nest is a mess since they bought it.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 40
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,438member
    foggyhill said:
    jimh2 said:
    In the end merging into Google will be detrimental to Nest because as we know Google never finishes, much less polishes any product.
    And yet oddly enough, they have been part of Google for several years and offer finished, polished products through multiple generations. Not to mention Chromecast, Home, and Pixel devices.
    Right... You did read wth he wrote, a lot of people already think Nest is a mess since they bought it.
    ...and I would be one that agrees with you. So much potential, yet so little in the way of product.

    I fully expect that to change with hardware development now under Osterloh.
  • Reply 23 of 40
    I wish they offered HomeKit support for Nest, but guessing that's not in the cards.  I'm pretty well invested in the Apple ecosystem, and don't have any intention to change.  I like my Nest a lot, but the Honeywell unit that another poster linked looks pretty good too.  Might give that a shot when I move!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 40
    fallenjt said:
    Nest thermostat sucks for the price and implementation . I hate the dial and click. Had it for a month and got rid of it. Ecobee blows it out of water!
    Ecobee is amazing. Unfortunately, HomeKit doesn’t support its best features. 
  • Reply 25 of 40
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,071member
    fallenjt said:
    Nest thermostat sucks for the price and implementation . I hate the dial and click. Had it for a month and got rid of it. Ecobee blows it out of water!

    I have to agree and it works with all the services.  I have the Ecobee 4.  I think it may be a better move to get the Ecobee 3, and then a stand along Amazon Dot IF you wat Alexa.  You would think that Alexa being built it, that it would be the best way to go.  It's NOT!    First,  mine is in the hallway, so there's not a lot to ask it there, and it doesn't pick up your voice all that good.  Still, it was completely clueless about the Ecobee.  I could set a timer and play music, but Ecobee?!?!  Then I remembered I had to install a Skill, which is the Ecobee Plus skill.   After that's working, you have to say things just right for it to work.  So you have to ASK or TELL it to do something and with what.  So something like "Alexa, Tell Ecobee to set the temp to 68" and I think that will work.    

    After setting up Homekit support and Google Home Support,  both of those work the same, and easier.  I can just go " Hey Siri (or Hey Google), Set temp to 68" and that's it.
    I do most of my Home Control on my Apple Watch, which is great.  Then I have a Google Home Mini and an Amazon Echo Dot.     The Google Mini actually sounds all right.  I can play music on it at a medium level and it sounds good.  On the Amazon DOT, Music sounds like crap.    I paid $30 for these things to play around with.  So I'll sit back on my bed and ask all 3 of them questions, using my 12.9" iPad Pro for Siri.  As it doesn't need to be plugged in to respond to Hey Siri, and it's always the first out there to speak.
    They all have their Pros and Cons, but Siri is much better then all the negative people give it.  Home Control is really where it's at.

    The NEST, Google Home support only?  Having to use the dial and button to enter everything?!?!  SUCKS!!  The Ecobee looks like.  The touchscreen is great.  Network setup using the iphone was a snap.  I love the monthly reports you get which shows how much energy you're saving and comparing you to those around you.  So you setup the type of place you live in.  The number of people.  The number of floors and square feet, and the number of bedrooms.   The remote temp/movement sensors are nice.

    I can log in on my Desktop computer or on my iOS device.  BEST of all, you don't have GOOGLE spying on you.  Adding more Data about you and your home from that NEST.  Like what temps do you set it at.  How often does it see movement as people walk by it.  But to me, the Ecobee is just a much better all around Device and it supports everyone.  Apple Homekit, Amazon Alexa, Google Home, Samesung SmartThings, and IFTTT).    Why Google is limiting the NEST like they're doing when there's the Ecobee and other Smart Thermostats out there these days.


    lostkiwi
  • Reply 26 of 40
    sirozhasirozha Posts: 526member
    macxpress said:
    Screw Nest & no HomeKit!  Bought ecobee 3 and much happier!
    Same here...Ecobee 3 works awesome with HomeKit and its extremely easy to install and setup. Even the sensors for the individual rooms are very easy to setup, very much like Apple would do. 
    How do you handle ecobee’s Smart Home/Away features or the Follow Me feature in HomeKit? If you use any scene in HomeKit, ecobee is set to hold the temperature predefined in HomeKit. The hold won’t be removed until you do it manually via the thermostat screen or via the ecobee app. Alternatively, you can have the hold taken off by the next scheduled activity, which is when the night schedule kicks in, for example.  

    The entire intelligence behind the Ecobee algorithm is completely defeated by HomeKit.  These amazing features are Smart Home/Away that automatically adjusts the temperature to the “Away” schedule when no presence is detected in any room during the day and automatically adjusts the temperature back to the “Home” schedule when presence is detected by any of the remote sensors or the thermostat itself. The other amazing feature is Follow Me  that averages the temperatures only among the rooms where presence is detected to match the temperature set for the current activity is also defeated by HomeKit.

    The only party to blame here is Apple, as their implementation of HomeKit supports only rudimentary features, whereas the smart devices can do much more sophisticated operations but only via their own apps. 
    edited February 2018 gatorguy
  • Reply 27 of 40
    sirozhasirozha Posts: 526member
    I wonder if folks who buy Ecobee read the manual to learn the advanced features. Telling an assistant (Siri, Alexa, or Google Assistant) to
    set Ecobee to a certain temperature is NOT how Ecobee should be used. It’s a fancy way to set the thermostat to hold temperature, which is how a dumb thermostat is used.

    Some people may think that the difference between a smart and a dumb thermostat is in that the smart thermostat can be set to a hold temperature remotely (even miles away from the house). This is the most rudimentary “smart” feature in Ecobee that is supported by HomeKit and, hence, by Siri. 

    Ecobee can do so much more than that, however, but the most amazing Ecobee smart features are not supported in HomeKit.

    People, RTFM, LOL. 
    edited February 2018
  • Reply 28 of 40
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,161member
    gatorguy said:
    Makes much more sense than making a show of being hands off.

    "But ... But... what about the data!!? OMG!!" I don't have the first concern that somehow Google means me harm, or planning to break into my home when they think I'm away, or selling personal info about me or my home to anyone else. Integrating Nest with Google Home rather than treating them as a 3rd party like they do now is better for me as an owner of both. Home control should be easier than it is, and this a a step towards that. 
    Nah, no such worries, I trashed my Nests once Google bought the company and now have ecobees, far superior all around.  I can thoroughly  recommend them they work really well in my walled garden ;)
    lostkiwimacxpress
  • Reply 29 of 40
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,161member

    gatorguy said:
    jimh2 said:
    In the end merging into Google will be detrimental to Nest because as we know Google never finishes, much less polishes any product.
    The two are not "merging" with Nest disappearing into the Google abyss. Their hardware team is merging with the Google hardware team to work under Rick Osterloh. It should speed up the somewhat laggy development of new Nest products. 

    EDIT: I stand corrected. The entire Nest team including software development is being moved to Osterloh's domain, so I was wrong.
    You are a lot but you'll get over it, just read those memos from Google HQ more carefully ok? ;)
    edited February 2018
  • Reply 30 of 40
    maestro64 said:
    Screw Nest & no HomeKit!  Bought ecobee 3 and much happier!

    I personally would trust Honeywell over any of these companies they understand environmental controls better than anyone. It took them some time to get on the bandwagon for smart controls with an smartphone but they have good solution and it works with all kinds of heating can cooling systems.

    https://yourhome.honeywell.com/Lyric-T6-Pro-Thermostat-TH6320WF2003-TH6220WF2006

    The issue is who is the master of the house and get to control the temperature, and when the Master is gone then what does spouse have to deal with hot or cool temps while you are gone. These systems has to be able to deal with when multiply people are in the house and what to do when one or all are not there at any given time.

    Well, I have the Lyric T5 installed. Guess what... My iPhone can be in the toilet, and I can still walk up to the thermostat and do ANYTHING. There is no “issue” since anyone can operate the thermostat the good old fashioned way! Tap tap tap...ah...much warmer 
  • Reply 31 of 40
    croprcropr Posts: 924member
    gatorguy said:
    Makes much more sense than making a show of being hands off.

    "But ... But... what about the data!!? OMG!!" I don't have the first concern that somehow Google means me harm, or planning to break into my home when they think I'm away, or selling personal info about me or my home to anyone else. Integrating Nest with Google Home rather than treating them as a 3rd party like they do now is better for me as an owner of both. Home control should be easier than it is, and this a a step towards that. 
    Very strange that people here keep on saying that Google is selling personal info. Google is not.  Google uses the gathered data for its AdWords service, but Google is never exposing personal data to the advertiser, who wants to make uses of AdWords. 

    I have used AdWords on several occasions.  I can define parameters for an ad campaign (males between 40 to 50, who like sports, ...), but the campaign is fully anonymous for me.  I don't know any details about the people who receive the ad or who clicked on the ad.
    avon b7muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 32 of 40
    gatorguy said:
    roake said:
    gatorguy said:
    maestro64 said:
    And better to spy on you my little pretty....
    To do what? LOL. 
    To sell your privacy
    Your private data is not for sale by Google. Never has been. You've confused them with Experian. And Transunion. And your State Licensing agencies. And thousands of others. Google sells ad placement, not data. 
     https://privacy.google.com/your-data.html
    Sometimes that's worse. Company A might sell some data they have on me; name, address, email for example - i'll maybe get a spam message as a result. While google doesn't sell directly the data, they USE the data to sell targeted ads - and with devices like Nest and Google Home, they can collect unimaginable amounts of seemingly random pointless data and build up a detailed ID of all the people in each household; likes, dislikes, habits, etc. etc. The result of which might simply be more targeted spam messages, but the potential is scary and there is always the threat of this data being leaked/stolen or simply abused by someone with access. 
  • Reply 33 of 40
    Do you guys have Tado in the US? I ditched Hive for Tado about a year ago and never looked back; room by room control, homekit integration, multi-user location aware, learns how and when to heat in relation to weather and home dynamics etc. 
    Nest never was an option for me; it might be fine for a studio apartment where 1 thermostat suits but in big houses it's useless imho.

    edit* just checked, it seems you only get the AC control in the US, not the central heating / hot water control.
    edited February 2018
  • Reply 34 of 40
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,438member
    adm1 said:
    gatorguy said:
    roake said:
    gatorguy said:
    maestro64 said:
    And better to spy on you my little pretty....
    To do what? LOL. 
    To sell your privacy
    Your private data is not for sale by Google. Never has been. You've confused them with Experian. And Transunion. And your State Licensing agencies. And thousands of others. Google sells ad placement, not data. 
     https://privacy.google.com/your-data.html
    Sometimes that's worse. Company A might sell some data they have on me; name, address, email for example - i'll maybe get a spam message as a result. While google doesn't sell directly the data, they USE the data to sell targeted ads - and with devices like Nest and Google Home, they can collect unimaginable amounts of seemingly random pointless data and build up a detailed ID of all the people in each household; likes, dislikes, habits, etc. etc. The result of which might simply be more targeted spam messages, but the potential is scary and there is always the threat of this data being leaked/stolen or simply abused by someone with access. 
    Now you're simply writing silliness that in the process tosses more FUD around as tho we don't already get enough of it.

    Being served up a Google ad is so incredibly inocuos compared to being turned away for a job, denied insurance,  falsely suspected of a crime, being refused benefits you're entitled to, or unable to get proper housing or affordable finanacing all due to someone like Acxiom, or Transunion, or Experian or one of thousands of other companies that sell information outright selling you and your family's very detailed and very personal information ranging from education to finances to health, right down to the size of each room in your home and what political and religious affiliations you have. All that and lots more available for sale to whoever thinks it's valuable enough to buy: A bank, an insurer, a policing agency, government regulator, financial services marketer, employer, even stalker, et al. Heck you yourself can buy personal details about your neighbor or perhaps someone you just don't like (or maybe someone who doesn't like you might do the same) by visiting any number of on-line sites that offer up personal details on millions of us for a relative pittance. Stuff like financial info, names of extended family members and where they live, lists of any legal issues you might have had, addresses, phone numbers, employers....

    So now tell us again how an ad is worse. Details please on how the Google-served shoe ad you saw this morning because someone using your keyboard was looking for shoes is going to negatively impact your life.

    Such silliness, made worse by the fact that I have little doubt that most members here would consider themselves smarter and more "in-touch" than the average bear yet at the same time care so little about what they say being trustworthy and reasonably accurate...

    And as for leaked/stolen or abused data that Google might have? You think Apple is any more hacker proof or leak proof? The credit bureaus? Anyone? TBH I would trust Google to secure my data more so than most. 

    EDIT: Appropo timing? 
    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/a34g9j/iphone-source-code-iboot-ios-leak
    edited February 2018 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 35 of 40
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,821member
    gatorguy said:
    maestro64 said:
    Screw Nest & no HomeKit!  Bought ecobee 3 and much happier!

    I personally would trust Honeywell over any of these companies they understand environmental controls better than anyone. It took them some time to get on the bandwagon for smart controls with an smartphone but they have good solution and it works with all kinds of heating can cooling systems.

    https://yourhome.honeywell.com/Lyric-T6-Pro-Thermostat-TH6320WF2003-TH6220WF2006
    ...if "spying on you" is a concern you might want to read under what circumstances Honeywell might be sharing your use of their product and the types of information they collect about you and your home. I think you'll find it's not unlike what Nest collects, and the circumstances under which it can be shared. . 

    IMHO anyone who decides to involve themselves in home automation whether it be a thermostat, or smartspeaker, or door lock, or a full security system should obviously understand some user data is going to be involved, and therefor pay attention to the pertinent privacy policies and sharing declarations. 
    Uh most companies, except Google aren't going to gather data and sell you ads. Just because Google can't put an ad on the screen of Nest, doesn't mean they can't push ads on your computer, tablet, phone or anything else on your home network. Its not like they can't tell the Nest and your devices are on the same network. 
  • Reply 36 of 40
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,438member
    macxpress said:
    gatorguy said:
    maestro64 said:
    Screw Nest & no HomeKit!  Bought ecobee 3 and much happier!

    I personally would trust Honeywell over any of these companies they understand environmental controls better than anyone. It took them some time to get on the bandwagon for smart controls with an smartphone but they have good solution and it works with all kinds of heating can cooling systems.

    https://yourhome.honeywell.com/Lyric-T6-Pro-Thermostat-TH6320WF2003-TH6220WF2006
    ...if "spying on you" is a concern you might want to read under what circumstances Honeywell might be sharing your use of their product and the types of information they collect about you and your home. I think you'll find it's not unlike what Nest collects, and the circumstances under which it can be shared. . 

    IMHO anyone who decides to involve themselves in home automation whether it be a thermostat, or smartspeaker, or door lock, or a full security system should obviously understand some user data is going to be involved, and therefor pay attention to the pertinent privacy policies and sharing declarations. 
    Uh most companies, except Google aren't going to gather data and sell you ads. Just because Google can't put an ad on the screen of Nest, doesn't mean they can't push ads on your computer, tablet, phone or anything else on your home network. Its not like they can't tell the Nest and your devices are on the same network. 
    OMG!! An Ad!?? Oh the horror...

    Meanwhile you might have paid too much for insurance or even been denied altogether, or paying too much in interest or not offered a lower rate on what you already have, or not being offered some particular work position to advance your career, all because some company out there is selling highly personal and identifiable information about you to them that you have no control over and often are unable to even review for accuracy.  Worse you may not even know it happened.

    But those ads!!

    ...and yes beside Ecobee themselves Ecobee also allows "partners" to collect information about you and your use of Ecobee services, and in accordance with those partners privacy policies and not theirs. Beware the social media buttons. You don't even have to click 'em... They work like magic. Honeywell is much the same.
    https://www.ecobee.com/legal/use/
    edited February 2018 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 37 of 40
    I don’t have a thermostat yet, but definitely won’t be a nest.  Regardless, any home automation stuff I buy goes on it’s own vlan with access to the internet is limited (aka none, except to just get the thing setup sometimes).  Only access allowed is through homekit. These devices don’t need free reign with an internet connection.  I will control their access, and sometimes that means going without some “features.”  If after setup, it still requires an app to use it (aka outside the context of homekit) I don’t buy it or use it.
  • Reply 38 of 40
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,438member
    I don’t have a thermostat yet, but definitely won’t be a nest.  Regardless, any home automation stuff I buy goes on it’s own vlan with access to the internet is limited (aka none, except to just get the thing setup sometimes).  Only access allowed is through homekit. These devices don’t need free reign with an internet connection.  I will control their access, and sometimes that means going without some “features.”  If after setup, it still requires an app to use it (aka outside the context of homekit) I don’t buy it or use it.
    Siri control alone will require you to break your rule of "no internet access". If you don't plan on granting it or allowing your smart devices internet access then don't waste your money. Buy a dumb thermostat and other dumb controllers that will essentially offer all the same functionality as a disconnected-from-the-web smart one.
    edited February 2018
  • Reply 39 of 40
    gatorguy said:
    I don’t have a thermostat yet, but definitely won’t be a nest.  Regardless, any home automation stuff I buy goes on it’s own vlan with access to the internet is limited (aka none, except to just get the thing setup sometimes).  Only access allowed is through homekit. These devices don’t need free reign with an internet connection.  I will control their access, and sometimes that means going without some “features.”  If after setup, it still requires an app to use it (aka outside the context of homekit) I don’t buy it or use it.
    Siri control alone will require you to break your rule of "no internet access". If you don't plan on granting it or allowing your smart devices internet access then don't waste your money. Buy a dumb thermostat and other dumb controllers that will essentially offer all the same functionality as a disconnected-from-the-web smart one.
    The idea here is to limit the traffic to the devices.  The only device allowed to reach the internet is the Apple TV, with it setup to be on both vlans.  This would be so that homekit can still do its job.  iOS, tvOS would still have free reign, just not the smart things.  They should only be using homekit and homekit alone.  They do not need to phone home without consent.  Only way to ensure some level of security is to limit their access, segregate them on their own “network” and only allow a specific set of devices to bridge the gap between the logical networks.
  • Reply 40 of 40
    macguimacgui Posts: 1,176member
    I have an ecobee 3, as yet uninstalled. It was chosen over Nest because of HomeKit.

    But I really like the look of the Nest. The radial indices and large temperature in the middle. And I like turning the dial to set the turn-on temp, like a regular thermostat, but didn't know about the 'click' which is unlike any real thermostat I've ever used. But good looking or not, it wasn't HK.

    My needs are simple— heat or air On when I want it, Off when I don't. All from my favorite chair, if need be. The ecobee3 isn't as nice looking but I like the two additional room sensors for temperature monitoring.

    What I might invest in is remote controlled vents to channel the output to various rooms.


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