Acoustic testing finds HomePod's adaptive audio tech delivers highly consistent sound

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 39
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 4,564member
    gatorguy said:
    wizard69 said:
    siretman said:
    Now let’s send the Consumer Reports testing to the trash. Another major failure for CR to add to their history. 
    This report and referenced testing isn't anymore useful than CR's report.    In the end it is how a speaker sounds to an individual user that is important as no two people have the same hearing profile.    

    I just find it funny that people reference positive reports of HomePods performance that aren't any more valid than CR's report.    An individuals ears have more to do with a speaker sounding ""good"" than the speaker itself.   Combine the ears variable performance with the fact that installations vary widely and you can't really say if HomePod is good enough until you actually try it out.
    Sound quality is subjective. Who knew?
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/head-head-apple-homepod-really-sound-best-160346138.html

    The guy makes a good point

    An Apple rep told me that the test songs were streaming from a server in the next room (a Mac). But each speaker was connected to it differently: by Bluetooth (Amazon Echo), Ethernet (Sonos), input miniplug (Google Home), and AirPlay (HomePod), which is Apple’s Wi-Fi-based transmission system.

    Since the setup wasn’t identical, I wondered if it was a perfectly fair test. (Bluetooth, for example, may degrade (compress) the music it’s transmitting, depending on the source and the equipment.)

    Miniplug would be the best less likely to have any interference between the source and the speaker, going from them Enet next best Wifi next and Bluetooth the least favor way to get your audio to the source. The issue here , miniplug required the source to do the D/A the other methods required the speaker do the D/A, Assuming the digital transmission is not delayed or corrupted during transmission, these test come down to the D/A capability of each speaker. Once the D/A is complete it call comes down to the analog parts of the speaker. As you can see the sources of errors stack up pretty quickly and the speaker who controls this best will have the best sound.

  • Reply 22 of 39
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 4,564member
    wizard69 said:
    siretman said:
    Now let’s send the Consumer Reports testing to the trash. Another major failure for CR to add to their history. 
    This report and referenced testing isn't anymore useful than CR's report.    In the end it is how a speaker sounds to an individual user that is important as no two people have the same hearing profile.    

    I just find it funny that people reference positive reports of HomePods performance that aren't any more valid than CR's report.    An individuals ears have more to do with a speaker sounding ""good"" than the speaker itself.   Combine the ears variable performance with the fact that installations vary widely and you can't really say if HomePod is good enough until you actually try it out.
    gatorguy said:
    wizard69 said:
    siretman said:
    Now let’s send the Consumer Reports testing to the trash. Another major failure for CR to add to their history. 
    This report and referenced testing isn't anymore useful than CR's report.    In the end it is how a speaker sounds to an individual user that is important as no two people have the same hearing profile.    

    I just find it funny that people reference positive reports of HomePods performance that aren't any more valid than CR's report.    An individuals ears have more to do with a speaker sounding ""good"" than the speaker itself.   Combine the ears variable performance with the fact that installations vary widely and you can't really say if HomePod is good enough until you actually try it out.
    Sound quality is subjective. Who knew?
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/head-head-apple-homepod-really-sound-best-160346138.html
    I understand what both of you are saying but this report is about sound consistency, not quality. 

    actually consistency is all about quality, Quality is about how close you reproduce the original or how over time it reproduces sound. Do not confuse hardware quality or build quality to sound quality, they are two different things and no one at this time is talk about build quality, other than Ifixit would claim the build quality if not good since you have to cut it apart to work on it.
  • Reply 23 of 39
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 4,564member
    digitol said:
    Google beat out HomePod in blind sound test. Personally I think the SOnos sounds the best. Here is the link:
    https://9to5google.com/2018/02/13/home-max-homepod-listening-test/

    and those people look like they would know what sounds good or not. The problem with this as a comparative analysis, most people have no idea what determines good or bad sounds. I suspect the Google speak sounds louder and some people will equate this as sounding better. I will give you that Homepod does not crank up as much as some speaker. We have another speaker and it is much loader and my wife first impression was the Homepod was not as good until I ask her to walk around the room and listen and compare and she noticed immediately the homepod sounded uniform and it you did not need to yell over the speak to talk to someone.
  • Reply 24 of 39
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,593member
    maestro64 said:
    digitol said:
    Google beat out HomePod in blind sound test. Personally I think the SOnos sounds the best. Here is the link:
    https://9to5google.com/2018/02/13/home-max-homepod-listening-test/

    and those people look like they would know what sounds good or not. The problem with this as a comparative analysis, most people have no idea what determines good or bad sounds. I suspect the Google speak sounds louder and some people will equate this as sounding better. I will give you that Homepod does not crank up as much as some speaker. We have another speaker and it is much loader and my wife first impression was the Homepod was not as good until I ask her to walk around the room and listen and compare and she noticed immediately the homepod sounded uniform and it you did not need to yell over the speak to talk to someone.
    The one person who would supposedly have the most tuned ear for music, the classically trained violinist, is one who I would have expected to choose HomePod based on all the glowing reviews going around.... but he did not. He was firmly for the sound from the Home Max. For me that was a mild surprise.
    edited February 2018
  • Reply 25 of 39
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,225member
    gatorguy said:
    maestro64 said:
    digitol said:
    Google beat out HomePod in blind sound test. Personally I think the SOnos sounds the best. Here is the link:
    https://9to5google.com/2018/02/13/home-max-homepod-listening-test/

    and those people look like they would know what sounds good or not. The problem with this as a comparative analysis, most people have no idea what determines good or bad sounds. I suspect the Google speak sounds louder and some people will equate this as sounding better. I will give you that Homepod does not crank up as much as some speaker. We have another speaker and it is much loader and my wife first impression was the Homepod was not as good until I ask her to walk around the room and listen and compare and she noticed immediately the homepod sounded uniform and it you did not need to yell over the speak to talk to someone.
    The one person who would supposedly have the most tuned ear for music, the classically trained violinist, is one who I would have expected to choose HomePod based on all the glowing reviews going around.... but he did not. He was firmly for the sound from the Home Max. For me that was a mild surprise.
    Come on be honest you were looking for any scrap of information to damn Apple's product.
  • Reply 26 of 39
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,593member
    MacPro said:
    gatorguy said:
    maestro64 said:
    digitol said:
    Google beat out HomePod in blind sound test. Personally I think the SOnos sounds the best. Here is the link:
    https://9to5google.com/2018/02/13/home-max-homepod-listening-test/

    and those people look like they would know what sounds good or not. The problem with this as a comparative analysis, most people have no idea what determines good or bad sounds. I suspect the Google speak sounds louder and some people will equate this as sounding better. I will give you that Homepod does not crank up as much as some speaker. We have another speaker and it is much loader and my wife first impression was the Homepod was not as good until I ask her to walk around the room and listen and compare and she noticed immediately the homepod sounded uniform and it you did not need to yell over the speak to talk to someone.
    The one person who would supposedly have the most tuned ear for music, the classically trained violinist, is one who I would have expected to choose HomePod based on all the glowing reviews going around.... but he did not. He was firmly for the sound from the Home Max. For me that was a mild surprise.
    Come on be honest you were looking for any scrap of information to damn Apple's product.
    Ummm, that source was David Pogue, hardly an Apple-hater.
  • Reply 27 of 39
    gatorguy said:
     Apple's speaker provides a nearly flat representation of sound, a metric often used to quantify audio quality.
    This is not actually the case. Please read the EDIT in the review.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/7wwtqy/apple_homepod_the_audiophile_perspective/

    Tl;Dr:

    I am speechless. The HomePod actually sounds better than the KEF X300A. If you’re new to the Audiophile world, KEF is a very well respected and much loved speaker company. I actually deleted my very first measurements and re-checked everything because they were so good, I thought I’d made an error. Apple has managed to extract peak performance from a pint sized speaker, a feat that deserves a standing ovation. The HomePod is 100% an Audiophile grade Speaker.

    EDIT: before you read any further, please read /u/edechamps excellent reply to this post and then read this excellent discussion between him and /u/Ilkless about measuring, conventions, some of the mistakes I've made, and how the data should be interpreted. His conclusion, if I'm reading it right, is that these measurements are largely inconclusive, since the measurements were not done in an anechoic chamber. Since I dont have one of those handy, these measurements should be taken with a brick of salt. I still hope that some of the information in here, the discussion, the guesses, and more are useful to everyone. This really is a new type of speaker (again see the discussion) and evaluating it accurately is bloody difficult.


    Small portion of the critique:

    The experimenter seems obsessed with that graph which they claim shows a very flat frequency response. They even say, further down the review, that it's an "almost perfectly flat speaker". Mmm. I opened that same measurement in REW and here's what I get (with the same 1/12 octave smoothing as the above image): https://i.imgur.com/3nHZimq.png

    Doesn't look as nice doesn't it? That's because of the scale, you see. It's the ages-old trick of messing with the vertical scale to make things look flatter than they really are. In the screenshot that the experimenter posted, the interval between ticks is 10 dB. That's enormous. Almost anything will look almost flat at that scale.





    No, his measurements are still ok. The idea a speaker that adapts its output to a room should be tested in an anechoic chamber is pure horseshit.
    Huh...
    Not even the guy who did the tests now says that. You plainly did not read the update, which the author himself promotes as more accurate than his original claims which he now says should be taken with a "huge brick of salt". 

    I read his report. His measurements represent a real world example and are just one of many pieces of data on the HomePod.

    And I’m still correct in my comment about an anechoic chamber.
  • Reply 28 of 39
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,593member
    gatorguy said:
     Apple's speaker provides a nearly flat representation of sound, a metric often used to quantify audio quality.
    This is not actually the case. Please read the EDIT in the review.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/7wwtqy/apple_homepod_the_audiophile_perspective/

    Tl;Dr:

    I am speechless. The HomePod actually sounds better than the KEF X300A. If you’re new to the Audiophile world, KEF is a very well respected and much loved speaker company. I actually deleted my very first measurements and re-checked everything because they were so good, I thought I’d made an error. Apple has managed to extract peak performance from a pint sized speaker, a feat that deserves a standing ovation. The HomePod is 100% an Audiophile grade Speaker.

    EDIT: before you read any further, please read /u/edechamps excellent reply to this post and then read this excellent discussion between him and /u/Ilkless about measuring, conventions, some of the mistakes I've made, and how the data should be interpreted. His conclusion, if I'm reading it right, is that these measurements are largely inconclusive, since the measurements were not done in an anechoic chamber. Since I dont have one of those handy, these measurements should be taken with a brick of salt. I still hope that some of the information in here, the discussion, the guesses, and more are useful to everyone. This really is a new type of speaker (again see the discussion) and evaluating it accurately is bloody difficult.


    Small portion of the critique:

    The experimenter seems obsessed with that graph which they claim shows a very flat frequency response. They even say, further down the review, that it's an "almost perfectly flat speaker". Mmm. I opened that same measurement in REW and here's what I get (with the same 1/12 octave smoothing as the above image): https://i.imgur.com/3nHZimq.png

    Doesn't look as nice doesn't it? That's because of the scale, you see. It's the ages-old trick of messing with the vertical scale to make things look flatter than they really are. In the screenshot that the experimenter posted, the interval between ticks is 10 dB. That's enormous. Almost anything will look almost flat at that scale.





    No, his measurements are still ok. The idea a speaker that adapts its output to a room should be tested in an anechoic chamber is pure horseshit.
    Huh...
    Not even the guy who did the tests now says that. You plainly did not read the update, which the author himself promotes as more accurate than his original claims which he now says should be taken with a "huge brick of salt". 

    I read his report. His measurements represent a real world example and are just one of many pieces of data on the HomePod.

    And I’m still correct in my comment about an anechoic chamber.
    Oh, I'm sure you believe you are. No doubt about it.
  • Reply 29 of 39
    The homePod sounds terrible playing the sound of a wire-recording of a merry-go-round downloaded from LimeWire -- if you're deaf in one ear...

    Just keep those goalposts moving...
  • Reply 30 of 39
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,756member
    Here's another technical test;

    https://www.fastcompany.com/40530175/acoustics-tests-show-apples-homepod-audio-claims-are-legit

    Again, not a test to prove better comparative sound.

    gatorguy said:
    MacPro said:
    gatorguy said:
    maestro64 said:
    digitol said:
    Google beat out HomePod in blind sound test. Personally I think the SOnos sounds the best. Here is the link:
    https://9to5google.com/2018/02/13/home-max-homepod-listening-test/

    and those people look like they would know what sounds good or not. The problem with this as a comparative analysis, most people have no idea what determines good or bad sounds. I suspect the Google speak sounds louder and some people will equate this as sounding better. I will give you that Homepod does not crank up as much as some speaker. We have another speaker and it is much loader and my wife first impression was the Homepod was not as good until I ask her to walk around the room and listen and compare and she noticed immediately the homepod sounded uniform and it you did not need to yell over the speak to talk to someone.
    The one person who would supposedly have the most tuned ear for music, the classically trained violinist, is one who I would have expected to choose HomePod based on all the glowing reviews going around.... but he did not. He was firmly for the sound from the Home Max. For me that was a mild surprise.
    Come on be honest you were looking for any scrap of information to damn Apple's product.
    Ummm, that source was David Pogue, hardly an Apple-hater.
    David Pogue is a smart guy, but this isn't a great test setup. Four speakers, three different speaker component architectures, and both the Amazon Echo Plus and HomePod are designed to have 360 degree sound output in the horizontal plane, ie, ear level. Each of those is better served with some space around them.

    It's likely a better test than CR's though; fiddling with the sound output says more about the listener's hearing than the speakers.

    Of course if they were all listening and adjusting simultaneously, that would have been a hoot, and very representative of the real world!

  • Reply 31 of 39
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
     Apple's speaker provides a nearly flat representation of sound, a metric often used to quantify audio quality.
    This is not actually the case. Please read the EDIT in the review.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/7wwtqy/apple_homepod_the_audiophile_perspective/

    Tl;Dr:

    I am speechless. The HomePod actually sounds better than the KEF X300A. If you’re new to the Audiophile world, KEF is a very well respected and much loved speaker company. I actually deleted my very first measurements and re-checked everything because they were so good, I thought I’d made an error. Apple has managed to extract peak performance from a pint sized speaker, a feat that deserves a standing ovation. The HomePod is 100% an Audiophile grade Speaker.

    EDIT: before you read any further, please read /u/edechamps excellent reply to this post and then read this excellent discussion between him and /u/Ilkless about measuring, conventions, some of the mistakes I've made, and how the data should be interpreted. His conclusion, if I'm reading it right, is that these measurements are largely inconclusive, since the measurements were not done in an anechoic chamber. Since I dont have one of those handy, these measurements should be taken with a brick of salt. I still hope that some of the information in here, the discussion, the guesses, and more are useful to everyone. This really is a new type of speaker (again see the discussion) and evaluating it accurately is bloody difficult.


    Small portion of the critique:

    The experimenter seems obsessed with that graph which they claim shows a very flat frequency response. They even say, further down the review, that it's an "almost perfectly flat speaker". Mmm. I opened that same measurement in REW and here's what I get (with the same 1/12 octave smoothing as the above image): https://i.imgur.com/3nHZimq.png

    Doesn't look as nice doesn't it? That's because of the scale, you see. It's the ages-old trick of messing with the vertical scale to make things look flatter than they really are. In the screenshot that the experimenter posted, the interval between ticks is 10 dB. That's enormous. Almost anything will look almost flat at that scale.





    No, his measurements are still ok. The idea a speaker that adapts its output to a room should be tested in an anechoic chamber is pure horseshit.
    Huh...
    Not even the guy who did the tests now says that. You plainly did not read the update, which the author himself promotes as more accurate than his original claims which he now says should be taken with a "huge brick of salt". 

    I read his report. His measurements represent a real world example and are just one of many pieces of data on the HomePod.

    And I’m still correct in my comment about an anechoic chamber.
    Oh, I'm sure you believe you are. No doubt about it.

    Absolutely correct. You care to have a technical discussion on acoustics? I doubt it.
  • Reply 32 of 39
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,593member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
     Apple's speaker provides a nearly flat representation of sound, a metric often used to quantify audio quality.
    This is not actually the case. Please read the EDIT in the review.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/7wwtqy/apple_homepod_the_audiophile_perspective/

    Tl;Dr:

    I am speechless. The HomePod actually sounds better than the KEF X300A. If you’re new to the Audiophile world, KEF is a very well respected and much loved speaker company. I actually deleted my very first measurements and re-checked everything because they were so good, I thought I’d made an error. Apple has managed to extract peak performance from a pint sized speaker, a feat that deserves a standing ovation. The HomePod is 100% an Audiophile grade Speaker.

    EDIT: before you read any further, please read /u/edechamps excellent reply to this post and then read this excellent discussion between him and /u/Ilkless about measuring, conventions, some of the mistakes I've made, and how the data should be interpreted. His conclusion, if I'm reading it right, is that these measurements are largely inconclusive, since the measurements were not done in an anechoic chamber. Since I dont have one of those handy, these measurements should be taken with a brick of salt. I still hope that some of the information in here, the discussion, the guesses, and more are useful to everyone. This really is a new type of speaker (again see the discussion) and evaluating it accurately is bloody difficult.


    Small portion of the critique:

    The experimenter seems obsessed with that graph which they claim shows a very flat frequency response. They even say, further down the review, that it's an "almost perfectly flat speaker". Mmm. I opened that same measurement in REW and here's what I get (with the same 1/12 octave smoothing as the above image): https://i.imgur.com/3nHZimq.png

    Doesn't look as nice doesn't it? That's because of the scale, you see. It's the ages-old trick of messing with the vertical scale to make things look flatter than they really are. In the screenshot that the experimenter posted, the interval between ticks is 10 dB. That's enormous. Almost anything will look almost flat at that scale.





    No, his measurements are still ok. The idea a speaker that adapts its output to a room should be tested in an anechoic chamber is pure horseshit.
    Huh...
    Not even the guy who did the tests now says that. You plainly did not read the update, which the author himself promotes as more accurate than his original claims which he now says should be taken with a "huge brick of salt". 

    I read his report. His measurements represent a real world example and are just one of many pieces of data on the HomePod.

    And I’m still correct in my comment about an anechoic chamber.
    Oh, I'm sure you believe you are. No doubt about it.

    Absolutely correct. You care to have a technical discussion on acoustics? I doubt it.
    Hey there's one going on at the source you're claiming was right all along. How lucky is that!  Chime in and tell them you're right, they're wrong. Should I wait?
    I suspect you'd quickly discover just how qualified your expertise is but feel free to prove me wrong. I'll watch that discussion for your contribution and make sure to use your AI monilker so we know it's one of our own members setting them straight. 
    edited February 2018
  • Reply 33 of 39
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
     Apple's speaker provides a nearly flat representation of sound, a metric often used to quantify audio quality.
    This is not actually the case. Please read the EDIT in the review.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/7wwtqy/apple_homepod_the_audiophile_perspective/

    Tl;Dr:

    I am speechless. The HomePod actually sounds better than the KEF X300A. If you’re new to the Audiophile world, KEF is a very well respected and much loved speaker company. I actually deleted my very first measurements and re-checked everything because they were so good, I thought I’d made an error. Apple has managed to extract peak performance from a pint sized speaker, a feat that deserves a standing ovation. The HomePod is 100% an Audiophile grade Speaker.

    EDIT: before you read any further, please read /u/edechamps excellent reply to this post and then read this excellent discussion between him and /u/Ilkless about measuring, conventions, some of the mistakes I've made, and how the data should be interpreted. His conclusion, if I'm reading it right, is that these measurements are largely inconclusive, since the measurements were not done in an anechoic chamber. Since I dont have one of those handy, these measurements should be taken with a brick of salt. I still hope that some of the information in here, the discussion, the guesses, and more are useful to everyone. This really is a new type of speaker (again see the discussion) and evaluating it accurately is bloody difficult.


    Small portion of the critique:

    The experimenter seems obsessed with that graph which they claim shows a very flat frequency response. They even say, further down the review, that it's an "almost perfectly flat speaker". Mmm. I opened that same measurement in REW and here's what I get (with the same 1/12 octave smoothing as the above image): https://i.imgur.com/3nHZimq.png

    Doesn't look as nice doesn't it? That's because of the scale, you see. It's the ages-old trick of messing with the vertical scale to make things look flatter than they really are. In the screenshot that the experimenter posted, the interval between ticks is 10 dB. That's enormous. Almost anything will look almost flat at that scale.





    No, his measurements are still ok. The idea a speaker that adapts its output to a room should be tested in an anechoic chamber is pure horseshit.
    Huh...
    Not even the guy who did the tests now says that. You plainly did not read the update, which the author himself promotes as more accurate than his original claims which he now says should be taken with a "huge brick of salt". 

    I read his report. His measurements represent a real world example and are just one of many pieces of data on the HomePod.

    And I’m still correct in my comment about an anechoic chamber.
    Oh, I'm sure you believe you are. No doubt about it.

    Absolutely correct. You care to have a technical discussion on acoustics? I doubt it.
    I would like to point out that regardless of your beliefs on the measurement method, the results are in no way "nearly flat".



  • Reply 34 of 39
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
     Apple's speaker provides a nearly flat representation of sound, a metric often used to quantify audio quality.
    This is not actually the case. Please read the EDIT in the review.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/7wwtqy/apple_homepod_the_audiophile_perspective/

    Tl;Dr:

    I am speechless. The HomePod actually sounds better than the KEF X300A. If you’re new to the Audiophile world, KEF is a very well respected and much loved speaker company. I actually deleted my very first measurements and re-checked everything because they were so good, I thought I’d made an error. Apple has managed to extract peak performance from a pint sized speaker, a feat that deserves a standing ovation. The HomePod is 100% an Audiophile grade Speaker.

    EDIT: before you read any further, please read /u/edechamps excellent reply to this post and then read this excellent discussion between him and /u/Ilkless about measuring, conventions, some of the mistakes I've made, and how the data should be interpreted. His conclusion, if I'm reading it right, is that these measurements are largely inconclusive, since the measurements were not done in an anechoic chamber. Since I dont have one of those handy, these measurements should be taken with a brick of salt. I still hope that some of the information in here, the discussion, the guesses, and more are useful to everyone. This really is a new type of speaker (again see the discussion) and evaluating it accurately is bloody difficult.


    Small portion of the critique:

    The experimenter seems obsessed with that graph which they claim shows a very flat frequency response. They even say, further down the review, that it's an "almost perfectly flat speaker". Mmm. I opened that same measurement in REW and here's what I get (with the same 1/12 octave smoothing as the above image): https://i.imgur.com/3nHZimq.png

    Doesn't look as nice doesn't it? That's because of the scale, you see. It's the ages-old trick of messing with the vertical scale to make things look flatter than they really are. In the screenshot that the experimenter posted, the interval between ticks is 10 dB. That's enormous. Almost anything will look almost flat at that scale.





    No, his measurements are still ok. The idea a speaker that adapts its output to a room should be tested in an anechoic chamber is pure horseshit.
    Huh...
    Not even the guy who did the tests now says that. You plainly did not read the update, which the author himself promotes as more accurate than his original claims which he now says should be taken with a "huge brick of salt". 

    I read his report. His measurements represent a real world example and are just one of many pieces of data on the HomePod.

    And I’m still correct in my comment about an anechoic chamber.
    Oh, I'm sure you believe you are. No doubt about it.

    Absolutely correct. You care to have a technical discussion on acoustics? I doubt it.
    I would like to point out that regardless of your beliefs on the measurement method, the results are in no way "nearly flat".




    Did I claim anywhere they were actually flat? No. In fact, I never even commented in the previous article here at AI about this guys tests.

    The only things I've stated are that requiring an anechoic chamber to perform measurements is incorrect (even moreso with a speaker that's actively modifying the sound for the room), and that this is just one of many test that have been done. I've never claimed this persons results are the final word on the HomePod.
  • Reply 35 of 39
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
     Apple's speaker provides a nearly flat representation of sound, a metric often used to quantify audio quality.
    This is not actually the case. Please read the EDIT in the review.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/7wwtqy/apple_homepod_the_audiophile_perspective/

    Tl;Dr:

    I am speechless. The HomePod actually sounds better than the KEF X300A. If you’re new to the Audiophile world, KEF is a very well respected and much loved speaker company. I actually deleted my very first measurements and re-checked everything because they were so good, I thought I’d made an error. Apple has managed to extract peak performance from a pint sized speaker, a feat that deserves a standing ovation. The HomePod is 100% an Audiophile grade Speaker.

    EDIT: before you read any further, please read /u/edechamps excellent reply to this post and then read this excellent discussion between him and /u/Ilkless about measuring, conventions, some of the mistakes I've made, and how the data should be interpreted. His conclusion, if I'm reading it right, is that these measurements are largely inconclusive, since the measurements were not done in an anechoic chamber. Since I dont have one of those handy, these measurements should be taken with a brick of salt. I still hope that some of the information in here, the discussion, the guesses, and more are useful to everyone. This really is a new type of speaker (again see the discussion) and evaluating it accurately is bloody difficult.


    Small portion of the critique:

    The experimenter seems obsessed with that graph which they claim shows a very flat frequency response. They even say, further down the review, that it's an "almost perfectly flat speaker". Mmm. I opened that same measurement in REW and here's what I get (with the same 1/12 octave smoothing as the above image): https://i.imgur.com/3nHZimq.png

    Doesn't look as nice doesn't it? That's because of the scale, you see. It's the ages-old trick of messing with the vertical scale to make things look flatter than they really are. In the screenshot that the experimenter posted, the interval between ticks is 10 dB. That's enormous. Almost anything will look almost flat at that scale.





    No, his measurements are still ok. The idea a speaker that adapts its output to a room should be tested in an anechoic chamber is pure horseshit.
    Huh...
    Not even the guy who did the tests now says that. You plainly did not read the update, which the author himself promotes as more accurate than his original claims which he now says should be taken with a "huge brick of salt". 

    I read his report. His measurements represent a real world example and are just one of many pieces of data on the HomePod.

    And I’m still correct in my comment about an anechoic chamber.
    Oh, I'm sure you believe you are. No doubt about it.

    Absolutely correct. You care to have a technical discussion on acoustics? I doubt it.
    Hey there's one going on at the source you're claiming was right all along. How lucky is that!  Chime in and tell them you're right, they're wrong. Should I wait?
    I suspect you'd quickly discover just how qualified your expertise is but feel free to prove me wrong. I'll watch that discussion for your contribution and make sure to use your AI monilker so we know it's one of our own members setting them straight. 

    A for effort.

    Why don't we have one here? Simple. You lack any sort of understanding of acoustics and are completely incapable of determining if anything said by either side is right or wrong. The ONLY reason you're here is to defend Google (as usual) and the Home Max. Not because you're actually interested in something like acoustic testing of speakers.
    tmay
  • Reply 36 of 39
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,593member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
     Apple's speaker provides a nearly flat representation of sound, a metric often used to quantify audio quality.
    This is not actually the case. Please read the EDIT in the review.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/7wwtqy/apple_homepod_the_audiophile_perspective/

    Tl;Dr:

    I am speechless. The HomePod actually sounds better than the KEF X300A. If you’re new to the Audiophile world, KEF is a very well respected and much loved speaker company. I actually deleted my very first measurements and re-checked everything because they were so good, I thought I’d made an error. Apple has managed to extract peak performance from a pint sized speaker, a feat that deserves a standing ovation. The HomePod is 100% an Audiophile grade Speaker.

    EDIT: before you read any further, please read /u/edechamps excellent reply to this post and then read this excellent discussion between him and /u/Ilkless about measuring, conventions, some of the mistakes I've made, and how the data should be interpreted. His conclusion, if I'm reading it right, is that these measurements are largely inconclusive, since the measurements were not done in an anechoic chamber. Since I dont have one of those handy, these measurements should be taken with a brick of salt. I still hope that some of the information in here, the discussion, the guesses, and more are useful to everyone. This really is a new type of speaker (again see the discussion) and evaluating it accurately is bloody difficult.


    Small portion of the critique:

    The experimenter seems obsessed with that graph which they claim shows a very flat frequency response. They even say, further down the review, that it's an "almost perfectly flat speaker". Mmm. I opened that same measurement in REW and here's what I get (with the same 1/12 octave smoothing as the above image): https://i.imgur.com/3nHZimq.png

    Doesn't look as nice doesn't it? That's because of the scale, you see. It's the ages-old trick of messing with the vertical scale to make things look flatter than they really are. In the screenshot that the experimenter posted, the interval between ticks is 10 dB. That's enormous. Almost anything will look almost flat at that scale.





    No, his measurements are still ok. The idea a speaker that adapts its output to a room should be tested in an anechoic chamber is pure horseshit.
    Huh...
    Not even the guy who did the tests now says that. You plainly did not read the update, which the author himself promotes as more accurate than his original claims which he now says should be taken with a "huge brick of salt". 

    I read his report. His measurements represent a real world example and are just one of many pieces of data on the HomePod.

    And I’m still correct in my comment about an anechoic chamber.
    Oh, I'm sure you believe you are. No doubt about it.

    Absolutely correct. You care to have a technical discussion on acoustics? I doubt it.
    Hey there's one going on at the source you're claiming was right all along. How lucky is that!  Chime in and tell them you're right, they're wrong. Should I wait?
    I suspect you'd quickly discover just how qualified your expertise is but feel free to prove me wrong. I'll watch that discussion for your contribution and make sure to use your AI monilker so we know it's one of our own members setting them straight. 

    A for effort.

    Why don't we have one here? Simple. You lack any sort of understanding of acoustics and are completely incapable of determining if anything said by either side is right or wrong. The ONLY reason you're here is to defend Google (as usual) and the Home Max. Not because you're actually interested in something like acoustic testing of speakers.
    You're the one who claims to be an expert, I already know my limitations. You know the saying "Why not pick on someone your own size", so if you're so confident you're right and the dissidents aren't be the big dog and jump in to prove your worth. There's lots of other experts taking part and more than happy to discuss it with you. I'll watch.... If you're right I'll be more than happy to be first in line in this very thread to congratulate you.

    In case you can't remember where to find that discussion between experts here 'ya go.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/7wwtqy/apple_homepod_the_audiophile_perspective/du5j2hk/
    edited February 2018
  • Reply 37 of 39
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
     Apple's speaker provides a nearly flat representation of sound, a metric often used to quantify audio quality.
    This is not actually the case. Please read the EDIT in the review.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/7wwtqy/apple_homepod_the_audiophile_perspective/

    Tl;Dr:

    I am speechless. The HomePod actually sounds better than the KEF X300A. If you’re new to the Audiophile world, KEF is a very well respected and much loved speaker company. I actually deleted my very first measurements and re-checked everything because they were so good, I thought I’d made an error. Apple has managed to extract peak performance from a pint sized speaker, a feat that deserves a standing ovation. The HomePod is 100% an Audiophile grade Speaker.

    EDIT: before you read any further, please read /u/edechamps excellent reply to this post and then read this excellent discussion between him and /u/Ilkless about measuring, conventions, some of the mistakes I've made, and how the data should be interpreted. His conclusion, if I'm reading it right, is that these measurements are largely inconclusive, since the measurements were not done in an anechoic chamber. Since I dont have one of those handy, these measurements should be taken with a brick of salt. I still hope that some of the information in here, the discussion, the guesses, and more are useful to everyone. This really is a new type of speaker (again see the discussion) and evaluating it accurately is bloody difficult.


    Small portion of the critique:

    The experimenter seems obsessed with that graph which they claim shows a very flat frequency response. They even say, further down the review, that it's an "almost perfectly flat speaker". Mmm. I opened that same measurement in REW and here's what I get (with the same 1/12 octave smoothing as the above image): https://i.imgur.com/3nHZimq.png

    Doesn't look as nice doesn't it? That's because of the scale, you see. It's the ages-old trick of messing with the vertical scale to make things look flatter than they really are. In the screenshot that the experimenter posted, the interval between ticks is 10 dB. That's enormous. Almost anything will look almost flat at that scale.





    No, his measurements are still ok. The idea a speaker that adapts its output to a room should be tested in an anechoic chamber is pure horseshit.
    Huh...
    Not even the guy who did the tests now says that. You plainly did not read the update, which the author himself promotes as more accurate than his original claims which he now says should be taken with a "huge brick of salt". 

    I read his report. His measurements represent a real world example and are just one of many pieces of data on the HomePod.

    And I’m still correct in my comment about an anechoic chamber.
    Oh, I'm sure you believe you are. No doubt about it.

    Absolutely correct. You care to have a technical discussion on acoustics? I doubt it.
    Hey there's one going on at the source you're claiming was right all along. How lucky is that!  Chime in and tell them you're right, they're wrong. Should I wait?
    I suspect you'd quickly discover just how qualified your expertise is but feel free to prove me wrong. I'll watch that discussion for your contribution and make sure to use your AI monilker so we know it's one of our own members setting them straight. 

    A for effort.

    Why don't we have one here? Simple. You lack any sort of understanding of acoustics and are completely incapable of determining if anything said by either side is right or wrong. The ONLY reason you're here is to defend Google (as usual) and the Home Max. Not because you're actually interested in something like acoustic testing of speakers.
    You're the one who claims to be an expert, I already know my limitations. You know the saying "Why not pick on someone your own size", so if you're so confident you're right and the dissidents aren't be the big dog and jump in to prove your worth. There's lots of other experts taking part and more than happy to discuss it with you. I'll watch.... If you're right I'll be more than happy to be first in line in this very thread to congratulate you.

    In case you can't remember where to find that discussion between experts here 'ya go.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/7wwtqy/apple_homepod_the_audiophile_perspective/du5j2hk/

    Funny how you knowing your limitations doesn't stop you from being so sure about what's right or wrong.

    The real problem is you don't understand what they're talking about and have come to some conclusion that I disagree with everything they said. Which is absolutely not the case. In fact I agree with pretty much everything they've stated so what would the point be of engaging in further discussions? You seem to think that disagreeing with how useful one person claims a particular test is (anechoic chamber) means that I'm discounting everything they've said. In fact, they've also been discussing doing an impulse response test, which is exactly how you test a speaker in a normal room to get an accurate picture of what the speaker is doing WITHOUT any of the issues of testing in rooms (like reflections or resonances altering your measurements) and WITHOUT needing an anechoic chamber to get an accurate measurement.

    If you actually knew anything about acoustics, then you'd see how your desire to somehow see me "put in my place" by the real experts is pure folly.

    As I said, A for effort. At least you're consistent.
  • Reply 38 of 39
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,593member
    As expected...
  • Reply 39 of 39
    Posted this on another thread:

    Well, I got my second homePod and have dual Airfoil apps playing stereo (one balanced all left, the other all right).  There is definitely separation and a sweet spot.  I can't crank it up too loud because my daughter is taking a nap.

    Later, I will try moving the speakers around and see what happens...

    It's been years since I fiddled around with stereo setups... so I don't know what the current recommendations are.

    Right now, I'm playing an old Carmen McRae stereo 33 record -- Elusive Butterfly sounds great in the sweet spot (even at low volume).

    ...Whoa, my daughter went to pick up my grandson & I get to crank it up...  Some really good separation on some Nina Simone, Kenny Ball... 

    Playing Voices Of Spring -- I can really feel the base...

    I'm really impressed -- wonder what stereo will sound like when the little puppies can talk to each other...
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