Meanwhile Android phones with old batteries literally shutdown while making calls.
Yes, but the interesting thing here is that when someone complains about this on an Android forum, the first reply was to get the battery checked/replaced.
Which kinda explodes the notion that Android users are dumber. I mean, I bet you won’t find many Android users who will deliberately set an option that will cause their phone to crash.
Just sayin’
Yes, but the interesting thing here is that when someone complains about this on an Android forum, the first reply was to get the battery checked/replaced.
This is an important part of your reply, which is deliberately ignored by people who blindly support Apple in this episode. This clearly shows - People would have replaced their battery if Apple had NOT throttled the phones because people DO understand battery issues. But by slowing down the phones, Apple deliberately mislead them into a different problem (phone is too old to run the latest OS) and possible solution (buy a new phone).
Unfortunately, the fact that iOS has had a battery health warning built into the settings for quite some time blows that little conspiracy theory right out of the water.
But by all means keep trying. ߙ䦬t;br>
Unfortunately, the fact that iOS has had a battery health warning built into the settings for quite some time blows that little conspiracy theory right out of the water.
Few months back when I posted something similar on this topic, @Strangedays posted something similar to what you have posted now. I asked him few questions back then (needless to say, no response). I am going to ask the same questions to you now.
1. Are those battery health warnings ACTUALLY work reliably enough ALL the time, so that they can be relied upon by all the users?
2. If yes, why is Apple making enhancements NOW as detailed out in their apology after the throttling issue came to light?
3. If answer is NO to my question in point 1, you a making a stance which you cannot rely upon yourselves. Which one is that?
Your first question actually sounds to me like a clever shifting of the goal post. You first stated that Apple's action was tantamount to deceiving users into buying a new phone and when someone points out that Apple actually implemented a setting to show battery health, you change tack and ask if that setting worked reliably enough all the time.
The enhancements that Apple is making now are probably a simple evolution/refinement of the original bunch of settings. No doubt, the huge controversy around this issue forced Apple into thinking more deeply about how this could be handled better for the benefit of its customers.
IMHO, if the battery health warnings were introduced at the same time as the update that throttled performance on older batteries, it would be quite clear that Apple wasn't attempting any shenanigans.
In my opinion Apple made mistake by not clearly stating this behavior. Clearly l, it does make a difference in performance when slowly step by step your phone gets slower. They could have made this obvious in keynotes, in the manual and also make it obvious by a message that now throttling kicks in - recommending battery replacement and adding the option to turn off throttling right when they introduced this. I know I stated before that you don’t buy the phone with a lifetime guarantee of a specific speed. But obviously, users don’t arrive on large scale that “hey my phone is slower, maybe I should get the battery checked”. Heck, they could proactively even market this as a plus when it’s fully transparent. of course it is always easy on ginda sight to say what might have been better. I’m th Making it is quite a stretch to say they did this knowingly and on purpose with the intention to foster sales. Apple is like any other company not perfect. What matters to me is how they deal with mistakes or issues once they pop up. And here I can say that they listen to the customers and learn. Which is overall what counts.
If that video is respresentative of the experience for every phone, I think it’s safe to say the majority of users wouldn’t really notice their phone was slower without a basis of comparison. Probably a tiny minority either noticed or accidentally discovered it and then made a fuss and then everyone decided they hated the ‘problem’ they hadn’t noticed.
I don’t think Apple had any obligation to inform users. Apple decided a more stable phone was more important than a faster phone, and so they altered their own software which they’ve developed for many years to reflect their goal. They make many decisions without consulting users first which affect the user experience.
If that video is respresentative of the experience for every phone, I think it’s safe to say the majority of users wouldn’t really notice their phone was slower without a basis of comparison. Probably a tiny minority either noticed or accidentally discovered it and then made a fuss and then everyone decided they hated the ‘problem’ they hadn’t noticed.
I don’t think Apple had any obligation to inform users. Apple decided a more stable phone was more important than a faster phone, and so they altered their own software which they’ve developed for many years to reflect their goal. They make many decisions without consulting users first which affect the user experience.
Of course they had to inform the user. I would want to know when my hardware was performing subpar. Just like a check engine light on my vehicle. Sure, Apple is free to make decisions but anytime those result in reduced user experiences, they should be informed.
It’s not the act of stabilizing the phone that is getting Apple ripped, it’s the fact they did not inform their user base and even their employees had a shit poor understanding of the issue.
Meanwhile Android phones with old batteries literally shutdown while making calls.
Any phone with any kind of battery literally shuts down while you're on a call, if the battery runs out. What makes you think that the Android phones have the defect of shutting down unexpectedly if they have older batteries? They usually shut down gracefully, even if the battery does not last too long.
What happened with the iPhone 6 onwards was Apple updated the devices to intentionally throttle them performance-wise without telling people they did it. Now typically, if a device starts to become slow and non-responsive, the average person's first impression is not the battery, they think the whole thing is dying and ready for the bin; they will then upgrade to a newer model.
It isn't "slow and non-responsive" vs not, it is "shutting off" vs not.
I really wish the video would have been a three-way comparison:
A: iPhone 6 w/ old battery and IOS 10.2-ish ... whichever one predated the throttling "fix". B: iPhone 6 w/ old battery and IOS 11.2.6 C: iPhone 6 w/ new battery and IOS 11.2.6
It would be pretty obvious that the patch available in B would have the exact opposite effect of what you are describing ... people would be able to use their phones longer before replacing it or the battery.
Meanwhile Android phones with old batteries literally shutdown while making calls.
Any phone with any kind of battery literally shuts down while you're on a call, if the battery runs out. What makes you think that the Android phones have the defect of shutting down unexpectedly if they have older batteries? They usually shut down gracefully, even if the battery does not last too long.
Wrong. Go to any Android website and see the angry posts refuting your nonsense claim.
So the Geekbench scores are 57% of the original, but the usage is 79% of the original.
So much for the idiots who claimed their Phone was half as fast (or even slower) or barely usable. Likewise for the people who claim a “night & day” increase in performance with a new battery.
Meanwhile Android phones with old batteries literally shutdown while making calls.
Yes, but the interesting thing here is that when someone complains about this on an Android forum, the first reply was to get the battery checked/replaced.
Which kinda explodes the notion that Android users are dumber. I mean, I bet you won’t find many Android users who will deliberately set an option that will cause their phone to crash.
Just sayin’
Yes, but the interesting thing here is that when someone complains about this on an Android forum, the first reply was to get the battery checked/replaced.
This is an important part of your reply, which is deliberately ignored by people who blindly support Apple in this episode. This clearly shows - People would have replaced their battery if Apple had NOT throttled the phones because people DO understand battery issues. But by slowing down the phones, Apple deliberately mislead them into a different problem (phone is too old to run the latest OS) and possible solution (buy a new phone).
Unfortunately, the fact that iOS has had a battery health warning built into the settings for quite some time blows that little conspiracy theory right out of the water.
But by all means keep trying. ߙ䦬t;br>
Unfortunately, the fact that iOS has had a battery health warning built into the settings for quite some time blows that little conspiracy theory right out of the water.
Few months back when I posted something similar on this topic, @Strangedays posted something similar to what you have posted now. I asked him few questions back then (needless to say, no response). I am going to ask the same questions to you now.
1. Are those battery health warnings ACTUALLY work reliably enough ALL the time, so that they can be relied upon by all the users?
2. If yes, why is Apple making enhancements NOW as detailed out in their apology after the throttling issue came to light?
3. If answer is NO to my question in point 1, you a making a stance which you cannot rely upon yourselves. Which one is that?
Your first question actually sounds to me like a clever shifting of the goal post. You first stated that Apple's action was tantamount to deceiving users into buying a new phone and when someone points out that Apple actually implemented a setting to show battery health, you change tack and ask if that setting worked reliably enough all the time.
The enhancements that Apple is making now are probably a simple evolution/refinement of the original bunch of settings. No doubt, the huge controversy around this issue forced Apple into thinking more deeply about how this could be handled better for the benefit of its customers.
IMHO, if the battery health warnings were introduced at the same time as the update that throttled performance on older batteries, it would be quite clear that Apple wasn't attempting any shenanigans.
I did NOT shift any goals. There is no change of tack from my side. My question was relevant to the topic. I will give you a similar situation for you to ponder over:
1. Someone tells you that Apple "copied" Face recognition feature from Samsung and implemented it in iPhone X, hence iPhoneX is a knockoff of Samsung Galaxy S8
2. Would you ask the question "How reliably Face recognition worked in Samsung Galaxy phone?" OR accept his argument as a valid one? Say you ask the question "but, did it really work reliably?"
3. Now, if the OP says "You are changing tack", what would be your response? Would you agree with that? Would you not question the argument being made? Would doing so make you change the tack?
I still want to see a test of an iPhone with an old battery, but plugged into a power source. Performance should not degraded if it is plugged in as it is "bypassing" the battery. If there are still performance issues, then Apple looks bad as it seems like they are doing planned obsolescence.
The problem i see with the video and all of the news about battery controversy is that they like to show one side of the story. The video perfectly shows how much slower the throttled iPhone became without the knowledge of the user because Apple is evil. While reality is a throttled phone is probably much faster than a phone that shut down a few times during the demo. As an owner of an iPhone 4 what had regular shutdowns because of 7yo battery i know what its like. In my case after the phone shut down even at 70-80% charge it couldn't be turned back on. Sometimes it needed 10min to be able to boot up sometimes only charging would help. Anything related to GPS, taking photos, video, games,... would result in random shutdown. If people would consider a phone what needs minutes to turn back on, or even a bricked one until u get to charge it then i don't think it would be a choice between shutdowns or throttling. And the way i see it Apple came to the same conclusion.
Meanwhile Android phones with old batteries literally shutdown while making calls.
Any phone with any kind of battery literally shuts down while you're on a call, if the battery runs out. What makes you think that the Android phones have the defect of shutting down unexpectedly if they have older batteries? They usually shut down gracefully, even if the battery does not last too long.
Wrong. Go to any Android website and see the angry posts refuting your nonsense claim.
I don't spend time on Android forums, but what is non-sense is your broad brush claim about Android phones. And especially so soon after the Apple phones were themselves shutting down unexpectedly and had to be throttled down.
The date and number of emails is exactly the same in both videos, so my guess would be that he replaced the battery himself. It also should be noted that both tests are running on low charge, thus the potential for slowdown. Even more interesting is that prior to running the benchmark, there's only a 16 second difference between all of the different operations. It's the benchmark itself that creates the much larger gap between finishing times.
1) Beat dead horse 2) Bury beaten dead horse 3) Dig up decomposed remains of previously buried, previously beaten, and still dead horse 4) Beat dug up decomposed remains of previously buried, previously beaten, and still dead horse 5) Bury beaten decomposed remains of previously buried, previously beaten, and still dead horse 6) Dig up bones of doubly buried, triply beaten, and still dead horse 7) Beat the bones of doubly buried, triply beaten, and still dead horse 8) Bury beaten bones of doubly buried, triply beaten, and still dead horse 9) Excavate the dirt where the doubly buried, triply beaten, still dead horse have long since decayed into the earth 10) Beat the dirt where the doubly buried, triply beaten, still dead horse have long since decayed into the earth
The other thing to consider is how fast your phone was out of the box on the OS it shipped with vs the current OS. Especially now that it's 64 bit. This to me is another thing some irate people don't think about.
When was the last time you noticed your 6 was pretty fast? What OS was it running?
My mom’s 6 Plus (86%) capacity is still running fast on iOS 11.2.6
I put a new battery in my just over 2 year old 6 in June of last year. It felt great in iOS 11. A friend's mother now has it (replaced a 5C).
I upgraded to a X in November to get the new cameras. No regrets.
One more thought. I should probably put the word “significant” from my previous post into perspective. What I forgot is that from the video we have no clue about the measurement variation. Such tests should be repeated several times and either display results in multi vari form or as median in the least. Ever ran geekbench a couple of times one after the other? See.
This video is a decent representation of what I experienced. No battery warning indicator from the phone. No red flags when the tech tested it prior to replacement. Just a palpable sense of lag, stutter, and unpleasantness in user experience.
No indication of a bad battery... Just an assumption that the CPU was no longer up to the task of maintaining a buttery smooth experience in iOS.
What the video fails to show is the scrolling experience through apps. On my throttled phone, this was especially noticeable in certain apps (Weather.com and Safari especially). And the user in the video was lucky.... My phone would throttle to 50% speed.... Or MORE. See pics in the previous post.
What is also worth pointing out is that Apple's claims of reduced performance (only) at peak power loads seems to be misleading. The throttling is something that appeared to remain steady during normal use..... Not just when running a benchmark or taking a picture. Perhaps Apple's interpretation is that simply using the phone is a "peak" power demand..... Either way, the statement is misleading.
FWIW: I have a 6S and replaced the battery about a month ago. In regular use (which for me is pretty light; I'm no power user) I would say that the phone does feel snappier and responsive, but just a little. What's far more valuable to me is that I get 3 days of battery life before I need to charge it again. Also, with the old battery, once power levels dropped to around 30%, using the phone for an intensive task, say playing a YouTube video, would cause the battery level to deplete suddenly by 5 or sometimes 10%. With the new battery, I can run the phone down to single digit percentages and be confident that I still have power remaining. IOW: with the old battery, anything below 25 or 30% meant I had little to no power left and I needed to charge it. With the new battery, I can run it all the way down to 1 or 2% without it suddenly dying on me.
Comments
The enhancements that Apple is making now are probably a simple evolution/refinement of the original bunch of settings. No doubt, the huge controversy around this issue forced Apple into thinking more deeply about how this could be handled better for the benefit of its customers.
IMHO, if the battery health warnings were introduced at the same time as the update that throttled performance on older batteries, it would be quite clear that Apple wasn't attempting any shenanigans.
of course it is always easy on ginda sight to say what might have been better. I’m th Making it is quite a stretch to say they did this knowingly and on purpose with the intention to foster sales. Apple is like any other company not perfect. What matters to me is how they deal with mistakes or issues once they pop up. And here I can say that they listen to the customers and learn. Which is overall what counts.
I don’t think Apple had any obligation to inform users. Apple decided a more stable phone was more important than a faster phone, and so they altered their own software which they’ve developed for many years to reflect their goal. They make many decisions without consulting users first which affect the user experience.
It’s not the act of stabilizing the phone that is getting Apple ripped, it’s the fact they did not inform their user base and even their employees had a shit poor understanding of the issue.
I really wish the video would have been a three-way comparison:
A: iPhone 6 w/ old battery and IOS 10.2-ish ... whichever one predated the throttling "fix".
B: iPhone 6 w/ old battery and IOS 11.2.6
C: iPhone 6 w/ new battery and IOS 11.2.6
It would be pretty obvious that the patch available in B would have the exact opposite effect of what you are describing ... people would be able to use their phones longer before replacing it or the battery.
So much for the idiots who claimed their Phone was half as fast (or even slower) or barely usable. Likewise for the people who claim a “night & day” increase in performance with a new battery.
I did NOT shift any goals. There is no change of tack from my side. My question was relevant to the topic. I will give you a similar situation for you to ponder over:
1. Someone tells you that Apple "copied" Face recognition feature from Samsung and implemented it in iPhone X, hence iPhoneX is a knockoff of Samsung Galaxy S8
2. Would you ask the question "How reliably Face recognition worked in Samsung Galaxy phone?" OR accept his argument as a valid one? Say you ask the question "but, did it really work reliably?"
3. Now, if the OP says "You are changing tack", what would be your response? Would you agree with that? Would you not question the argument being made? Would doing so make you change the tack?
As an owner of an iPhone 4 what had regular shutdowns because of 7yo battery i know what its like. In my case after the phone shut down even at 70-80% charge it couldn't be turned back on. Sometimes it needed 10min to be able to boot up sometimes only charging would help. Anything related to GPS, taking photos, video, games,... would result in random shutdown.
If people would consider a phone what needs minutes to turn back on, or even a bricked one until u get to charge it then i don't think it would be a choice between shutdowns or throttling. And the way i see it Apple came to the same conclusion.
UGH!
2) Bury beaten dead horse
3) Dig up decomposed remains of previously buried, previously beaten, and still dead horse
4) Beat dug up decomposed remains of previously buried, previously beaten, and still dead horse
5) Bury beaten decomposed remains of previously buried, previously beaten, and still dead horse
6) Dig up bones of doubly buried, triply beaten, and still dead horse
7) Beat the bones of doubly buried, triply beaten, and still dead horse
8) Bury beaten bones of doubly buried, triply beaten, and still dead horse
9) Excavate the dirt where the doubly buried, triply beaten, still dead horse have long since decayed into the earth
10) Beat the dirt where the doubly buried, triply beaten, still dead horse have long since decayed into the earth
I upgraded to a X in November to get the new cameras. No regrets.
https://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/comment/3028480/#Comment_3028480
This video is a decent representation of what I experienced. No battery warning indicator from the phone. No red flags when the tech tested it prior to replacement. Just a palpable sense of lag, stutter, and unpleasantness in user experience.
No indication of a bad battery... Just an assumption that the CPU was no longer up to the task of maintaining a buttery smooth experience in iOS.
What the video fails to show is the scrolling experience through apps. On my throttled phone, this was especially noticeable in certain apps (Weather.com and Safari especially). And the user in the video was lucky.... My phone would throttle to 50% speed.... Or MORE. See pics in the previous post.
What is also worth pointing out is that Apple's claims of reduced performance (only) at peak power loads seems to be misleading. The throttling is something that appeared to remain steady during normal use..... Not just when running a benchmark or taking a picture. Perhaps Apple's interpretation is that simply using the phone is a "peak" power demand..... Either way, the statement is misleading.
Well said!!!!
FWIW: I have a 6S and replaced the battery about a month ago. In regular use (which for me is pretty light; I'm no power user) I would say that the phone does feel snappier and responsive, but just a little. What's far more valuable to me is that I get 3 days of battery life before I need to charge it again. Also, with the old battery, once power levels dropped to around 30%, using the phone for an intensive task, say playing a YouTube video, would cause the battery level to deplete suddenly by 5 or sometimes 10%. With the new battery, I can run the phone down to single digit percentages and be confident that I still have power remaining. IOW: with the old battery, anything below 25 or 30% meant I had little to no power left and I needed to charge it. With the new battery, I can run it all the way down to 1 or 2% without it suddenly dying on me.