"Huawei is known to have close ties to the Chinese government"
Huawei has always strongly denied any such ties so I don't know how it can be 'known' to have them.
In fact, it has been denying it since at least 2011.
So if people willingly trust that US intelligence agencies have good reason to believe russians meddled in the election (without every giving any proof of it), why should we not also believe they have good reason to know something about Huawei that you don’t?
that's actually a reason NOT to believe the US intelligence agencies over Russian allegations. Innocent until proven guilty is the supposed idea western countries are to go by, it's quite the opposite nowadays. Just like the Russian double-agent poisoned in London this week, even the government is blaming Russia and Putin directly before ANY facts have been proven, I really wonder how long Russia (and China) will sit back and keep taking these jabs before they bite back.
They (at least Russia) already threw the first punch -- and it wasn't a jab. It was a right hook to the jaw.
"Huawei is known to have close ties to the Chinese government"
Huawei has always strongly denied any such ties so I don't know how it can be 'known' to have them.
In fact, it has been denying it since at least 2011.
So if people willingly trust that US intelligence agencies have good reason to believe russians meddled in the election (without every giving any proof of it), why should we not also believe they have good reason to know something about Huawei that you don’t?
Because you like their phones?
I trust that "having good reason to believe Russians meddled" was deliberately worded so as to avoid saying "Russians are known to have meddled".
Perhaps they did but I'm sure something could be plunked on the table to point that way if it were known.
"Huawei is known to have close ties to the Chinese government"
Huawei has always strongly denied any such ties so I don't know how it can be 'known' to have them.
In fact, it has been denying it since at least 2011.
So if people willingly trust that US intelligence agencies have good reason to believe russians meddled in the election (without every giving any proof of it), why should we not also believe they have good reason to know something about Huawei that you don’t?
Because you like their phones?
I trust that "having good reason to believe Russians meddled" was deliberately worded so as to avoid saying "Russians are known to have meddled".
Perhaps they did but I'm sure something could be plunked on the table to point that way if it were known.
Annex B is a must read. I must say that that document is surprisingly weak (I know key information is still classified).
It basically details what has gone on forever and ties it to today's world of social networking. Really very little new changes. First it was word of mouth, then text and radio, then TV and later satellite TV. Now it's also the internet, hacking and social networking!
However weak though, it does at least try to paint a picture, which high level Russian government feels it can deny very easily as nothing solid has been detailed, hence my comment, "perhaps it did" [meddle].
Personally, I think it's difficult to imagine it didn't because ALL governments try to manipulate.
The thing is, nothing has changed as there is still no plunk on Huawei.
"Huawei is known to have close ties to the Chinese government"
Huawei has always strongly denied any such ties so I don't know how it can be 'known' to have them.
In fact, it has been denying it since at least 2011.
What do you know about Huawei, just because the deny something does not make it false or true. Huawei existed long before china because more capitalistic, they were a government own and run business for a long time. Huawei, only exist to copy what other companies are doing in the world. They are one of the worse entities of stealing IP.
I know they insist government ties do not exist.
In that case, if another party claims that it is known that ties do exist that party should at least substantiate the claims.
Isn't that a reasonable position?
At the start of the decade I remember the same claims but when the committee in question was pressed to clarify, the reply was in the line of "while no wrongdoing was found..."
Of course that really means that nothing was actually 'known', simply 'feared'.
Really? How do you propose that US investigators go about getting this data? Just ask Huawei nicely?
You know what happened when they did that the last time? (Hint: “Chinese state secrets.”). Get real.
There’s a real blizzard coming, wait and see. There’s going to be a sweeping indictment of China and Chinese companies stealing intellectual property rights coming from this US Administration. It’ll make the steel/aluminum tariffs look like peanuts.
Asking nicely is exactly what happened with Huawei at the beginning of the decade. A US government committee summoned Huawei to declare. Questions to be answered.
It's notable that this time around there were no official questions posed (much less any real evidence tabled) and, curiously, not even a ban on selling handsets in the US. No, this time the government simply pressured the carriers to drop deals that had been agreed. The carriers have refused to comment but Huawei has said the carriers wanted to distribute its phones. Draw your own conclusions.
"Huawei is known to have close ties to the Chinese government"
Huawei has always strongly denied any such ties so I don't know how it can be 'known' to have them.
In fact, it has been denying it since at least 2011.
What do you know about Huawei, just because the deny something does not make it false or true. Huawei existed long before china because more capitalistic, they were a government own and run business for a long time. Huawei, only exist to copy what other companies are doing in the world. They are one of the worse entities of stealing IP.
I know they insist government ties do not exist.
In that case, if another party claims that it is known that ties do exist that party should at least substantiate the claims.
Isn't that a reasonable position?
At the start of the decade I remember the same claims but when the committee in question was pressed to clarify, the reply was in the line of "while no wrongdoing was found..."
Of course that really means that nothing was actually 'known', simply 'feared'.
I suggest you learn more about how the Chinese economy works. No Chinese company exist without Chinese government involvement, That is simple fact. All businesses and companies in China were once solely owned by the government and everyone worked for the government. As I said Huawei existed prior to Government allowing individuals to own and operate a company. As i said Huawei exist to copy western technologies, one of those technologies was telecommunication equipment. Huawei did a great job of copying US companies telecom equipment. US companies use to provide most of China's public and Military telecom equipment until Huawei copied it all. Since it is also widely known the China's government spies on it own people how do you think they do that, through backdoors in the telecom equipment which they could not do with US equipment. This is why the US government has never let Huawei equipment into the US network, and they tries and tried really hard. Another way to look at it, companies like Lockheed who supply Military communications equipment and mostly exist to support our US government, all of the sudden decided to sell its equipment to the rest of the world especially China, do you think China would allow a US company who supports our government provide their infrastructure and do you think they would have a reason to worry.
You position is not reasonable since you did not take any of this into consideration, this is why I asked what you know about them. Do not make assertions without truly understanding.
"Huawei is known to have close ties to the Chinese government"
Huawei has always strongly denied any such ties so I don't know how it can be 'known' to have them.
In fact, it has been denying it since at least 2011.
What do you know about Huawei, just because the deny something does not make it false or true. Huawei existed long before china because more capitalistic, they were a government own and run business for a long time. Huawei, only exist to copy what other companies are doing in the world. They are one of the worse entities of stealing IP.
I know they insist government ties do not exist.
In that case, if another party claims that it is known that ties do exist that party should at least substantiate the claims.
Isn't that a reasonable position?
At the start of the decade I remember the same claims but when the committee in question was pressed to clarify, the reply was in the line of "while no wrongdoing was found..."
Of course that really means that nothing was actually 'known', simply 'feared'.
I suggest you learn more about how the Chinese economy works. No Chinese company exist without Chinese government involvement, That is simple fact. All businesses and companies in China were once solely owned by the government and everyone worked for the government. As I said Huawei existed prior to Government allowing individuals to own and operate a company. As i said Huawei exist to copy western technologies, one of those technologies was telecommunication equipment. Huawei did a great job of copying US companies telecom equipment. US companies use to provide most of China's public and Military telecom equipment until Huawei copied it all. Since it is also widely known the China's government spies on it own people how do you think they do that, through backdoors in the telecom equipment which they could not do with US equipment. This is why the US government has never let Huawei equipment into the US network, and they tries and tried really hard. Another way to look at it, companies like Lockheed who supply Military communications equipment and mostly exist to support our US government, all of the sudden decided to sell its equipment to the rest of the world especially China, do you think China would allow a US company who supports our government provide their infrastructure and do you think they would have a reason to worry.
You position is not reasonable since you did not take any of this into consideration, this is why I asked what you know about them. Do not make assertions without truly understanding.
Times change.
Huawei has stated clearly and consistently that there are no close ties to the Chinese government. It has stated that the company is more than 98% owned by its own employees.
If someone is saying Huawei has known ties to the Chinese government and Huawei denies it, someone should be proving what they say.
Handset sales of Huawei products are not banned in the US. If they were, AT&T and Verizon would never have spent over a year testing Huawei chipsets on their networks. They would never have signed agreements with Huawei. That situation completely undermines any national security 'fears'.
As for copying how much of this do you think is true?
"Huawei is known to have close ties to the Chinese government"
Huawei has always strongly denied any such ties so I don't know how it can be 'known' to have them.
In fact, it has been denying it since at least 2011.
What do you know about Huawei, just because the deny something does not make it false or true. Huawei existed long before china because more capitalistic, they were a government own and run business for a long time. Huawei, only exist to copy what other companies are doing in the world. They are one of the worse entities of stealing IP.
I know they insist government ties do not exist.
In that case, if another party claims that it is known that ties do exist that party should at least substantiate the claims.
Isn't that a reasonable position?
At the start of the decade I remember the same claims but when the committee in question was pressed to clarify, the reply was in the line of "while no wrongdoing was found..."
Of course that really means that nothing was actually 'known', simply 'feared'.
I suggest you learn more about how the Chinese economy works. No Chinese company exist without Chinese government involvement, That is simple fact. All businesses and companies in China were once solely owned by the government and everyone worked for the government. As I said Huawei existed prior to Government allowing individuals to own and operate a company. As i said Huawei exist to copy western technologies, one of those technologies was telecommunication equipment. Huawei did a great job of copying US companies telecom equipment. US companies use to provide most of China's public and Military telecom equipment until Huawei copied it all. Since it is also widely known the China's government spies on it own people how do you think they do that, through backdoors in the telecom equipment which they could not do with US equipment. This is why the US government has never let Huawei equipment into the US network, and they tries and tried really hard. Another way to look at it, companies like Lockheed who supply Military communications equipment and mostly exist to support our US government, all of the sudden decided to sell its equipment to the rest of the world especially China, do you think China would allow a US company who supports our government provide their infrastructure and do you think they would have a reason to worry.
You position is not reasonable since you did not take any of this into consideration, this is why I asked what you know about them. Do not make assertions without truly understanding.
Times change.
Huawei has stated clearly and consistently that there are no close ties to the Chinese government. It has stated that the company is more than 98% owned by its own employees.
If someone is saying Huawei has known ties to the Chinese government and Huawei denies it, someone should be proving what they say.
Handset sales of Huawei products are not banned in the US. If they were, AT&T and Verizon would never have spent over a year testing Huawei chipsets on their networks. They would never have signed agreements with Huawei. That situation completely undermines any national security 'fears'.
As for copying how much of this do you think is true?
i can not believe you cited a china government controlled news source, for we know that could be how Apple pays bribes to the Chinese government. Yes this still goes on and Companies I work for had specially legal process for dealing with these things in china since the US government laws do not allow these kinds of things.
Handset are not networking and infrastructure equipment. If you want to trust a Chinese government with your personal information go have at it.
I have no clue what your back ground is, but I have worked in the telecom industry and I am very familiar with Huawei activities specially when it comes to coping US companies networking equipment.
If you have not worked in the industry and never been to China or work with Chinese companies stop thinking you know things just because you read it on the internet.
"Huawei is known to have close ties to the Chinese government"
Huawei has always strongly denied any such ties so I don't know how it can be 'known' to have them.
In fact, it has been denying it since at least 2011.
What do you know about Huawei, just because the deny something does not make it false or true. Huawei existed long before china because more capitalistic, they were a government own and run business for a long time. Huawei, only exist to copy what other companies are doing in the world. They are one of the worse entities of stealing IP.
I know they insist government ties do not exist.
In that case, if another party claims that it is known that ties do exist that party should at least substantiate the claims.
Isn't that a reasonable position?
At the start of the decade I remember the same claims but when the committee in question was pressed to clarify, the reply was in the line of "while no wrongdoing was found..."
Of course that really means that nothing was actually 'known', simply 'feared'.
I suggest you learn more about how the Chinese economy works. No Chinese company exist without Chinese government involvement, That is simple fact. All businesses and companies in China were once solely owned by the government and everyone worked for the government. As I said Huawei existed prior to Government allowing individuals to own and operate a company. As i said Huawei exist to copy western technologies, one of those technologies was telecommunication equipment. Huawei did a great job of copying US companies telecom equipment. US companies use to provide most of China's public and Military telecom equipment until Huawei copied it all. Since it is also widely known the China's government spies on it own people how do you think they do that, through backdoors in the telecom equipment which they could not do with US equipment. This is why the US government has never let Huawei equipment into the US network, and they tries and tried really hard. Another way to look at it, companies like Lockheed who supply Military communications equipment and mostly exist to support our US government, all of the sudden decided to sell its equipment to the rest of the world especially China, do you think China would allow a US company who supports our government provide their infrastructure and do you think they would have a reason to worry.
You position is not reasonable since you did not take any of this into consideration, this is why I asked what you know about them. Do not make assertions without truly understanding.
Times change.
Huawei has stated clearly and consistently that there are no close ties to the Chinese government. It has stated that the company is more than 98% owned by its own employees.
If someone is saying Huawei has known ties to the Chinese government and Huawei denies it, someone should be proving what they say.
Handset sales of Huawei products are not banned in the US. If they were, AT&T and Verizon would never have spent over a year testing Huawei chipsets on their networks. They would never have signed agreements with Huawei. That situation completely undermines any national security 'fears'.
As for copying how much of this do you think is true?
i can not believe you cited a china government controlled news source, for we know that could be how Apple pays bribes to the Chinese government. Yes this still goes on and Companies I work for had specially legal process for dealing with these things in china since the US government laws do not allow these kinds of things.
Handset are not networking and infrastructure equipment. If you want to trust a Chinese government with your personal information go have at it.
I have no clue what your back ground is, but I have worked in the telecom industry and I am very familiar with Huawei activities specially when it comes to coping US companies networking equipment.
If you have not worked in the industry and never been to China or work with Chinese companies stop thinking you know things just because you read it on the internet.
I quoted what Google gave me. LOL.
Now you're talking about bribes?
I don't need to have worked in the industry but here are some industry snippets.
Undersea communications cabling is seeing a lot of unwanted attention from Russian submarines. No doubt some people see thousands of km of unprotected communications cabling as a juicy target.
Well Huawei has laid some 40,000km of that cabling (and landing points) over the last ten years and your data is most definitely flowing over a lot of it.
If Huawei were what you make them out to be they don't need to be in the US carrier backbone industry and I'm shocked that you seem to be unaware that Huawei has laid communications hardware in the US. I remember some fibre optic communications contracts in Texas for example.
On handsets. The risk is just as high as with backbone infrastructure. The only difference is that only Huawei phones would be impacted. It's all conspiracy theory though. Huawei would implode overnight and forever if it was proven to be involved in what you are implying.
Conspiracy theory isn't applicable to the NSA though as we already know where its tentacles have been. Ironically in Huawei. Huawei was specifically targeted by the US government. Shotgiant. Remember?
This is no different the situation faced by the country with steel. At some point we will be down to one company or dependent upon another country to supply us steel.
Not to diverge too much from the article, but the US already gets a fair amount of its steel from another country. Luckily, that country is Canada -- and they have (so far) been excepted from the new tariffs.
Comments
Annex B is a must read. I must say that that document is surprisingly weak (I know key information is still classified).
It basically details what has gone on forever and ties it to today's world of social networking. Really very little new changes. First it was word of mouth, then text and radio, then TV and later satellite TV. Now it's also the internet, hacking and social networking!
However weak though, it does at least try to paint a picture, which high level Russian government feels it can deny very easily as nothing solid has been detailed, hence my comment, "perhaps it did" [meddle].
Personally, I think it's difficult to imagine it didn't because ALL governments try to manipulate.
The thing is, nothing has changed as there is still no plunk on Huawei.
It's notable that this time around there were no official questions posed (much less any real evidence tabled) and, curiously, not even a ban on selling handsets in the US. No, this time the government simply pressured the carriers to drop deals that had been agreed. The carriers have refused to comment but Huawei has said the carriers wanted to distribute its phones. Draw your own conclusions.
I suggest you learn more about how the Chinese economy works. No Chinese company exist without Chinese government involvement, That is simple fact. All businesses and companies in China were once solely owned by the government and everyone worked for the government. As I said Huawei existed prior to Government allowing individuals to own and operate a company. As i said Huawei exist to copy western technologies, one of those technologies was telecommunication equipment. Huawei did a great job of copying US companies telecom equipment. US companies use to provide most of China's public and Military telecom equipment until Huawei copied it all. Since it is also widely known the China's government spies on it own people how do you think they do that, through backdoors in the telecom equipment which they could not do with US equipment. This is why the US government has never let Huawei equipment into the US network, and they tries and tried really hard. Another way to look at it, companies like Lockheed who supply Military communications equipment and mostly exist to support our US government, all of the sudden decided to sell its equipment to the rest of the world especially China, do you think China would allow a US company who supports our government provide their infrastructure and do you think they would have a reason to worry.
You position is not reasonable since you did not take any of this into consideration, this is why I asked what you know about them. Do not make assertions without truly understanding.
Huawei has stated clearly and consistently that there are no close ties to the Chinese government. It has stated that the company is more than 98% owned by its own employees.
If someone is saying Huawei has known ties to the Chinese government and Huawei denies it, someone should be proving what they say.
Handset sales of Huawei products are not banned in the US. If they were, AT&T and Verizon would never have spent over a year testing Huawei chipsets on their networks. They would never have signed agreements with Huawei. That situation completely undermines any national security 'fears'.
As for copying how much of this do you think is true?
https://www.yicaiglobal.com/news/apple-pay-hundreds-millions-dollars-patent-royalties-huawei-every-year
i can not believe you cited a china government controlled news source, for we know that could be how Apple pays bribes to the Chinese government. Yes this still goes on and Companies I work for had specially legal process for dealing with these things in china since the US government laws do not allow these kinds of things.
Handset are not networking and infrastructure equipment. If you want to trust a Chinese government with your personal information go have at it.
I have no clue what your back ground is, but I have worked in the telecom industry and I am very familiar with Huawei activities specially when it comes to coping US companies networking equipment.
If you have not worked in the industry and never been to China or work with Chinese companies stop thinking you know things just because you read it on the internet.
Now you're talking about bribes?
I don't need to have worked in the industry but here are some industry snippets.
Undersea communications cabling is seeing a lot of unwanted attention from Russian submarines. No doubt some people see thousands of km of unprotected communications cabling as a juicy target.
Well Huawei has laid some 40,000km of that cabling (and landing points) over the last ten years and your data is most definitely flowing over a lot of it.
If Huawei were what you make them out to be they don't need to be in the US carrier backbone industry and I'm shocked that you seem to be unaware that Huawei has laid communications hardware in the US. I remember some fibre optic communications contracts in Texas for example.
On handsets. The risk is just as high as with backbone infrastructure. The only difference is that only Huawei phones would be impacted. It's all conspiracy theory though. Huawei would implode overnight and forever if it was proven to be involved in what you are implying.
Conspiracy theory isn't applicable to the NSA though as we already know where its tentacles have been. Ironically in Huawei. Huawei was specifically targeted by the US government. Shotgiant. Remember?