Kuo: Android devices to rely on alternate 3D sensing tech after iPhone X takes early lead ...

Posted:
in General Discussion
In a bid to catch up with Apple's TrueDepth 3D-sensing camera, Android device makers are looking to incorporate similar components using time-of-flight technology, according to KGI analyst Ming-Chi Kuo, though the first models are not expected to arrive until 2019.




In a note to investors seen by AppleInsider, Kuo predicts Chinese manufacturer Huawei will introduce smartphone models with 3D-sensing capabilities in 2019.

The company will start off with structured light solutions like those found in Apple's TrueDepth camera system for iPhone X, but will move to cheaper, smaller time-of-flight sensors by the second or third quarter of next year, Kuo says. Models with TOF sensor could replace those with structured light technology within three to six months after a start to mass production.

Other Android device makers could follow Huawei's lead and build out their own facial recognition camera systems using ToF technology.

"With advantages in BOM, we see ToF becoming the Android camp's mainstream facial recognition solution, as long as production yield and recognition quality don't become major issues," Kuo writes.

Apple became the first major smartphone maker to leverage depth-sensing camera technology with the release of iPhone X last year. Dubbed TrueDepth, Apple's specialized camera system integrates a dot projector, flood illuminator, infrared and color cameras, and advanced learning algorithms to power a facial recognition solution called Face ID.

To accurately map a user's face, TrueDepth projects an array of 30,000 dots in a known pattern using a vertical-cavity surface-emitting laser (VCSEL) module operating in the infrared spectrum. The resulting image, specifically deviations in the pattern, is captured by an infrared camera, combined with 2D image information and compared against secure reference data.

Rather than capturing an image of a patterned light, ToF solutions generate depth maps by calculating the time it takes laser pulses, or alternatively modulated laser light, to bounce off an object's surface.

Despite having a lead in terms of progress toward mass production, Kuo believes structured light technology might become a "transitional solution" amidst a wider industry push into ToF systems. Whether Apple will also turn to ToF in a future iteration of TrueDepth is unknown, though rumors last year suggest the company is investigating integration of the technology in a rear-facing 3D sensor for iPhone that could debut in 2019.

Kuo's predictions come on the heels of a report that estimated Apple to have a two-year head start over the Android camp in what is becoming a 3D sensing arms race. Suppliers of VCSEL modules and optical filters said they are unlikely to reach production levels adequate for wide adoption until 2019.

Apple, on the other hand, gobbled up parts supply for iPhone X and inked an exclusive deal with key manufacturer Finisar in 2017, promising a substantial leg up on the competition.

Even if companies like Huawei shift from structured light to ToF, supply will continue to be constrained as the two technologies share a number of components including hard to get VCSEL arrays.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 39

    It looks like the FaceID technology is almost as huge as the move to 64-bit. Apple catches all rivals off-guard again.

    6+ years after the passing of Jobs, Apple still skates to where the puck will be!

    racerhomie3tmaywatto_cobraMuntzStrangeDaysradarthekatRoyfbmagman1979
  • Reply 2 of 39
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,056member
    "Apple became the first major smartphone maker to leverage depth-sensing camera technology with the release of iPhone Xlast year."

    Just one minor quibble. That would be better as 3D depth-sensing as depth sensing camera technology has been used on phones for a while.

    As I said in another thread recently, Huawei has already detailed and demoed its system. The last time I looked it had more VCSEL business than Apple and as a result I can't see them having supply problems, especially as they wouldn't roll the systems out across the board.

    As for release timeframe, most rumours pointed to a release next week but as leaks have increased over the weeks, and high definition images of the new phones have appeared, it seemed unlikely that it would be included in next week's announcement. Then just yesterday, an article (I think it was Digitimes) pointed to them using the second generation Spectra ISP on the new phones.

    This area is probably the last hardware related mystery of the P20 series.
  • Reply 3 of 39
    racerhomie3racerhomie3 Posts: 1,148member
    avon b7 said:
    "Apple became the first major smartphone maker to leverage depth-sensing camera technology with the release of iPhone Xlast year."

    Just one minor quibble. That would be better as 3D depth-sensing as depth sensing camera technology has been used on phones for a while.

    As I said in another thread recently, Huawei has already detailed and demoed its system. The last time I looked it had more VCSEL business than Apple and as a result I can't see them having supply problems, especially as they wouldn't roll the systems out across the board.

    As for release timeframe, most rumours pointed to a release next week but as leaks have increased over the weeks, and high definition images of the new phones have appeared, it seemed unlikely that it would be included in next week's announcement. Then just yesterday, an article (I think it was Digitimes) pointed to them using the second generation Spectra ISP on the new phones.

    This area is probably the last hardware related mystery of the P20 series.
    Too bad no one cares whatever the P20 series is
    tmaywatto_cobraMuntzStrangeDaysradarthekatminisu1980Royfbmagman1979jony0
  • Reply 4 of 39
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,056member
    avon b7 said:
    "Apple became the first major smartphone maker to leverage depth-sensing camera technology with the release of iPhone Xlast year."

    Just one minor quibble. That would be better as 3D depth-sensing as depth sensing camera technology has been used on phones for a while.

    As I said in another thread recently, Huawei has already detailed and demoed its system. The last time I looked it had more VCSEL business than Apple and as a result I can't see them having supply problems, especially as they wouldn't roll the systems out across the board.

    As for release timeframe, most rumours pointed to a release next week but as leaks have increased over the weeks, and high definition images of the new phones have appeared, it seemed unlikely that it would be included in next week's announcement. Then just yesterday, an article (I think it was Digitimes) pointed to them using the second generation Spectra ISP on the new phones.

    This area is probably the last hardware related mystery of the P20 series.
    Too bad no one cares whatever the P20 series is
    It isn't about the P20 per se but when the technology might appear from Huawei. As the article mentioned that issue specifically, I think it's completely relevant even if nobody cares.
  • Reply 5 of 39
    BluntBlunt Posts: 224member
    avon b7 said:
    It isn't about the P20 per se but when the technology might appear from Huawei. As the article mentioned that issue specifically, I think it's completely relevant even if nobody cares.

    Your posts are never relevant you are allways trying to spin it towards Android and nobody really cares.
    MuntzStrangeDaysradarthekatmagman1979jony0
  • Reply 6 of 39
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,244member
    Blunt said:
    avon b7 said:
    It isn't about the P20 per se but when the technology might appear from Huawei. As the article mentioned that issue specifically, I think it's completely relevant even if nobody cares.

    Your posts are never relevant you are allways trying to spin it towards Android and nobody really cares.
    And yet he has no interest in talking about their greatest creative and technical achievement - the fast food phone.


    radarthekatRoyfbmagman1979jony0
  • Reply 7 of 39
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,056member
    Blunt said:
    avon b7 said:
    It isn't about the P20 per se but when the technology might appear from Huawei. As the article mentioned that issue specifically, I think it's completely relevant even if nobody cares.

    Your posts are never relevant you are allways trying to spin it towards Android and nobody really cares.
    But you cared enough to reply. If you had something to say on the subject it would have been better.
  • Reply 8 of 39
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,056member
    Blunt said:
    avon b7 said:
    It isn't about the P20 per se but when the technology might appear from Huawei. As the article mentioned that issue specifically, I think it's completely relevant even if nobody cares.

    Your posts are never relevant you are allways trying to spin it towards Android and nobody really cares.
    And yet he has no interest in talking about their greatest creative and technical achievement - the fast food phone.


    I try to make things relevant. Open a thread on the subject of technical and creative achievement and we'll see how true your statement is.

    Is this the fourth, or fifth, time you've posted that image? Now, you know why that phone existed, you know Huawei has made phones for third parties (even Google). What is it about that image that fascinates you so much?
  • Reply 9 of 39
    KuyangkohKuyangkoh Posts: 344member
    Hehe so what happened to the huewii made for google again?? I thought it was recalled
    magman1979
  • Reply 10 of 39
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,244member
    avon b7 said:
    Blunt said:
    avon b7 said:
    It isn't about the P20 per se but when the technology might appear from Huawei. As the article mentioned that issue specifically, I think it's completely relevant even if nobody cares.

    Your posts are never relevant you are allways trying to spin it towards Android and nobody really cares.
    And yet he has no interest in talking about their greatest creative and technical achievement - the fast food phone.


    I try to make things relevant. Open a thread on the subject of technical and creative achievement and we'll see how true your statement is.

    Is this the fourth, or fifth, time you've posted that image? Now, you know why that phone existed, you know Huawei has made phones for third parties (even Google). What is it about that image that fascinates you so much?
    I have no idea why the KFC phone exists. 

    What fascinates me is how incredibly tacky it is, from the very idea born in the marketing room, to the finished product. A motherfucking fried-chicken smartphone. It's the dumbest, tackiest thing I've ever seen. This single image is proof that, to borrow a phrase, "They have no taste". Who can take this company seriously after such a thing? If Apple had launched such a ridiculous thing they'd be mocked to no end.

    And that's your champion of consumer electronics? Gross. 
    edited March 2018 Royfbmagman1979jony0
  • Reply 11 of 39
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,894member
    avon b7 said:
    Blunt said:
    avon b7 said:
    It isn't about the P20 per se but when the technology might appear from Huawei. As the article mentioned that issue specifically, I think it's completely relevant even if nobody cares.

    Your posts are never relevant you are allways trying to spin it towards Android and nobody really cares.
    And yet he has no interest in talking about their greatest creative and technical achievement - the fast food phone.


    I try to make things relevant. Open a thread on the subject of technical and creative achievement and we'll see how true your statement is.

    Is this the fourth, or fifth, time you've posted that image? Now, you know why that phone existed, you know Huawei has made phones for third parties (even Google). What is it about that image that fascinates you so much?
    I have no idea why the KFC phone exists. 

    What fascinates me is how incredibly tacky it is, from the very idea born in the marketing room, to the finished product. A motherfucking fried-chicken smartphone. It's the dumbest, tackiest thing I've ever seen. This single image is proof that, to borrow a phrase, "They have no taste". Who can take this company seriously after such a thing? If Apple had launched such a ridiculous thing they'd be mocked to no end.

    And that's your champion of consumer electronics? Gross. 
    They produced the phone under contract for KFC for some special event or something, and I think I remember reading it was only for a few hundred  5000 phones. If the idea is dumb it's KFC who's responsible.
    edited March 2018 singularity
  • Reply 13 of 39
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,832member
    avon b7 said:
    "Apple became the first major smartphone maker to leverage depth-sensing camera technology with the release of iPhone Xlast year."

    Just one minor quibble. That would be better as 3D depth-sensing as depth sensing camera technology has been used on phones for a while.

    As I said in another thread recently, Huawei has already detailed and demoed its system. The last time I looked it had more VCSEL business than Apple and as a result I can't see them having supply problems, especially as they wouldn't roll the systems out across the board.

    As for release timeframe, most rumours pointed to a release next week but as leaks have increased over the weeks, and high definition images of the new phones have appeared, it seemed unlikely that it would be included in next week's announcement. Then just yesterday, an article (I think it was Digitimes) pointed to them using the second generation Spectra ISP on the new phones.

    This area is probably the last hardware related mystery of the P20 series.
    I'm guessing that VCSEL's for communications are not equivalent to VCSEL's for face identification, and If Huawei doesn't deliver a P20 Pro with face identification, then Huawei not having access to the necessary VCSEL is almost certainly the cause.

    This is, in fact, what the article is stating, that device makers will have to consider TOF sensors in the near term in lieu of VCSEL's that do structured light, which they likely won't have a supply of until early 2019.
  • Reply 14 of 39
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,056member
    avon b7 said:
    Blunt said:
    avon b7 said:
    It isn't about the P20 per se but when the technology might appear from Huawei. As the article mentioned that issue specifically, I think it's completely relevant even if nobody cares.

    Your posts are never relevant you are allways trying to spin it towards Android and nobody really cares.
    And yet he has no interest in talking about their greatest creative and technical achievement - the fast food phone.


    I try to make things relevant. Open a thread on the subject of technical and creative achievement and we'll see how true your statement is.

    Is this the fourth, or fifth, time you've posted that image? Now, you know why that phone existed, you know Huawei has made phones for third parties (even Google). What is it about that image that fascinates you so much?
    I have no idea why the KFC phone exists. 

    What fascinates me is how incredibly tacky it is, from the very idea born in the marketing room, to the finished product. A motherfucking fried-chicken smartphone. It's the dumbest, tackiest thing I've ever seen. This single image is proof that, to borrow a phrase, "They have no taste". Who can take this company seriously after such a thing? If Apple had launched such a ridiculous thing they'd be mocked to no end.

    And that's your champion of consumer electronics? Gross. 
    Ah, so you have no idea why it exists but you still claim it to be Huawei's greatest creative and technical achievement?

    KFC is wildly popular in China and if you had paid even the slightest attention you would know why it was released and what it represented.

    And, perhaps ironically, a KFC branch in China is currently testing face recognition to make payments. 

    Why not look up the background to the phone in question and even 'smile to pay' before taking cheap jabs at the company you clearly know nothing about, and if you are ready to debate Huawei's creative and technical achievements seriously, open a thread and I will gladly present some examples for you to consider. It could be finger licking good.

    As for some of Apple's greatest creative and technical achievements, I doubt any other company has ever spent so long developing injection moulded plastics to get the dalmatian and flower power effects just right!

    Can you see how absurd these statements look and how worthless they are?

    The KFC phone wasn't a Willy Wonka style gold card that you found at the bottom of a fried chicken bucket. It was a commercial product, a sellout and now a collector's item.
  • Reply 15 of 39
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,056member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    "Apple became the first major smartphone maker to leverage depth-sensing camera technology with the release of iPhone Xlast year."

    Just one minor quibble. That would be better as 3D depth-sensing as depth sensing camera technology has been used on phones for a while.

    As I said in another thread recently, Huawei has already detailed and demoed its system. The last time I looked it had more VCSEL business than Apple and as a result I can't see them having supply problems, especially as they wouldn't roll the systems out across the board.

    As for release timeframe, most rumours pointed to a release next week but as leaks have increased over the weeks, and high definition images of the new phones have appeared, it seemed unlikely that it would be included in next week's announcement. Then just yesterday, an article (I think it was Digitimes) pointed to them using the second generation Spectra ISP on the new phones.

    This area is probably the last hardware related mystery of the P20 series.
    I'm guessing that VCSEL's for communications are not equivalent to VCSEL's for face identification, and If Huawei doesn't deliver a P20 Pro with face identification, then Huawei not having access to the necessary VCSEL is almost certainly the cause.

    This is, in fact, what the article is stating, that device makers will have to consider TOF sensors in the near term in lieu of VCSEL's that do structured light, which they likely won't have a supply of until early 2019.
    It's all possible but, speaking from memory, I thought the only custom hardware part that Apple used on True Depth (excepting the NPU) was something from stmicroelectronics. I thought the rest was off the shelf.

    I think from Huawei's position (as opposed to the general Android hardware position) VCSEL supply won't be a problem. As to the equivalence of VCSELs for different applications, I don't know. It's a good question. I can imagine that that packaging is different but I don't know if there is anything else that might necessarily change.

    Everything that Huawei has made public so far has mentioned structured light. If the Point Cloud Depth Camera isn't included on the P20 Pro, my guess is that it is software related but anything is possible. The post announcement interviews will definitely bring the subject up so we should get something from the horse's mouth. I wonder if Honor might use the cheaper options to keep pricing in check. At the other extreme, Huawei has registered a phone with the regulators that has 512GB of on-board memory. Some say it belongs to a future Mate series phone, others say the the P20 series will include a Porsche Design phone, which if true, could also be a candidate for that huge memory capacity along with the 3D sensing option. That is stretching things a little though, IMO.

    Unless something new pops up over the weekend, I'm doubtful it will appear next week. In that regard we share the same opinion but differ on the reasons why it might not show up.
    edited March 2018
  • Reply 16 of 39
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,244member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    Blunt said:
    avon b7 said:
    It isn't about the P20 per se but when the technology might appear from Huawei. As the article mentioned that issue specifically, I think it's completely relevant even if nobody cares.

    Your posts are never relevant you are allways trying to spin it towards Android and nobody really cares.
    And yet he has no interest in talking about their greatest creative and technical achievement - the fast food phone.


    I try to make things relevant. Open a thread on the subject of technical and creative achievement and we'll see how true your statement is.

    Is this the fourth, or fifth, time you've posted that image? Now, you know why that phone existed, you know Huawei has made phones for third parties (even Google). What is it about that image that fascinates you so much?
    I have no idea why the KFC phone exists. 

    What fascinates me is how incredibly tacky it is, from the very idea born in the marketing room, to the finished product. A motherfucking fried-chicken smartphone. It's the dumbest, tackiest thing I've ever seen. This single image is proof that, to borrow a phrase, "They have no taste". Who can take this company seriously after such a thing? If Apple had launched such a ridiculous thing they'd be mocked to no end.

    And that's your champion of consumer electronics? Gross. 
    Ah, so you have no idea why it exists but you still claim it to be Huawei's greatest creative and technical achievement?

    KFC is wildly popular in China and if you had paid even the slightest attention you would know why it was released and what it represented.

    And, perhaps ironically, a KFC branch in China is currently testing face recognition to make payments. 

    Why not look up the background to the phone in question and even 'smile to pay' before taking cheap jabs at the company you clearly know nothing about, and if you are ready to debate Huawei's creative and technical achievements seriously, open a thread and I will gladly present some examples for you to consider. It could be finger licking good.

    As for some of Apple's greatest creative and technical achievements, I doubt any other company has ever spent so long developing injection moulded plastics to get the dalmatian and flower power effects just right!

    Can you see how absurd these statements look and how worthless they are?

    The KFC phone wasn't a Willy Wonka style gold card that you found at the bottom of a fried chicken bucket. It was a commercial product, a sellout and now a collector's item.
    Nice try, but it’s still perhaps the tackiest thing I’ve ever seen in mobile and clear evidence of their poor taste. A fast food smartphone. Awful.  
  • Reply 17 of 39
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,056member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    Blunt said:
    avon b7 said:
    It isn't about the P20 per se but when the technology might appear from Huawei. As the article mentioned that issue specifically, I think it's completely relevant even if nobody cares.

    Your posts are never relevant you are allways trying to spin it towards Android and nobody really cares.
    And yet he has no interest in talking about their greatest creative and technical achievement - the fast food phone.


    I try to make things relevant. Open a thread on the subject of technical and creative achievement and we'll see how true your statement is.

    Is this the fourth, or fifth, time you've posted that image? Now, you know why that phone existed, you know Huawei has made phones for third parties (even Google). What is it about that image that fascinates you so much?
    I have no idea why the KFC phone exists. 

    What fascinates me is how incredibly tacky it is, from the very idea born in the marketing room, to the finished product. A motherfucking fried-chicken smartphone. It's the dumbest, tackiest thing I've ever seen. This single image is proof that, to borrow a phrase, "They have no taste". Who can take this company seriously after such a thing? If Apple had launched such a ridiculous thing they'd be mocked to no end.

    And that's your champion of consumer electronics? Gross. 
    Ah, so you have no idea why it exists but you still claim it to be Huawei's greatest creative and technical achievement?

    KFC is wildly popular in China and if you had paid even the slightest attention you would know why it was released and what it represented.

    And, perhaps ironically, a KFC branch in China is currently testing face recognition to make payments. 

    Why not look up the background to the phone in question and even 'smile to pay' before taking cheap jabs at the company you clearly know nothing about, and if you are ready to debate Huawei's creative and technical achievements seriously, open a thread and I will gladly present some examples for you to consider. It could be finger licking good.

    As for some of Apple's greatest creative and technical achievements, I doubt any other company has ever spent so long developing injection moulded plastics to get the dalmatian and flower power effects just right!

    Can you see how absurd these statements look and how worthless they are?

    The KFC phone wasn't a Willy Wonka style gold card that you found at the bottom of a fried chicken bucket. It was a commercial product, a sellout and now a collector's item.
    Nice try, but it’s still perhaps the tackiest thing I’ve ever seen in mobile and clear evidence of their poor taste. A fast food smartphone. Awful.  
    No problem with that. It wasn't something I'd have bought either and you aren't alone in thinking it's tacky. I'm not a big fan of the recent wacky P20 promo that saw billboards parked outside Apple and Samsung stores either. It was supposed to be a bit of fun but it was risky and, at least IMO, unnecessary.
  • Reply 18 of 39
    magman1979magman1979 Posts: 1,136member
    avon b7 said:
    "Apple became the first major smartphone maker to leverage depth-sensing camera technology with the release of iPhone Xlast year."

    Just one minor quibble. That would be better as 3D depth-sensing as depth sensing camera technology has been used on phones for a while.

    As I said in another thread recently, Huawei has already detailed and demoed its system. The last time I looked it had more VCSEL business than Apple and as a result I can't see them having supply problems, especially as they wouldn't roll the systems out across the board.

    As for release timeframe, most rumours pointed to a release next week but as leaks have increased over the weeks, and high definition images of the new phones have appeared, it seemed unlikely that it would be included in next week's announcement. Then just yesterday, an article (I think it was Digitimes) pointed to them using the second generation Spectra ISP on the new phones.

    This area is probably the last hardware related mystery of the P20 series.
    I love how you not only keep pushing pro-Android garbage in the face of every user on an Apple site, but also putting a blatant thief on a pedestal:

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/29/cisco_huawei_case_ends/
    https://blogs.cisco.com/news/huawei-and-ciscos-source-code-correcting-the-record

    Even when Cisco dropped the lawsuit after reaching a seemingly mutual agreement, Huawei still didn't truthfully disclose the situation as was agreed upon.

    Not to mention all the times they've been caught RED HANDED bundling malware and spyware into their products:

    https://www.techworm.net/2015/09/malware-found-pre-installed-on-xiaomi-huawei-lenovo-smartphones.html

    Bottom line, Huawei does NOT have a mass-market 3D depth-sensing facial recognition product, only a stage demo, and given their past and repeated history of IP theft, it is likely stolen technology, not to mention their products are constant knock off's of Apple products, and the quality is as piss-poor as you can get.

    Oh, and let's also keep in mind how amazingly poorly Android handles biometrics data security:

    https://www.fastcompany.com/3049553/your-fingerprint-could-be-stolen-remotely-if-your-android-phone-has-a-scanner

    And because of the craptastic nature of Android, most units with biometrics abilities remain exposed due to lack of patches being made available, which means now with the mad rush of Android OEM's like Huawei to copy Apple's Face ID, facial recognition data can likely be swiped from these devices as well.

    Thanks, but I'll be sticking with Apple for a VERY long time, and will be steering clear of ANY Chinese tech company!
    edited March 2018 tmay
  • Reply 19 of 39
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,832member
    avon b7 said:
    "Apple became the first major smartphone maker to leverage depth-sensing camera technology with the release of iPhone Xlast year."

    Just one minor quibble. That would be better as 3D depth-sensing as depth sensing camera technology has been used on phones for a while.

    As I said in another thread recently, Huawei has already detailed and demoed its system. The last time I looked it had more VCSEL business than Apple and as a result I can't see them having supply problems, especially as they wouldn't roll the systems out across the board.

    As for release timeframe, most rumours pointed to a release next week but as leaks have increased over the weeks, and high definition images of the new phones have appeared, it seemed unlikely that it would be included in next week's announcement. Then just yesterday, an article (I think it was Digitimes) pointed to them using the second generation Spectra ISP on the new phones.

    This area is probably the last hardware related mystery of the P20 series.
    I love how you not only keep pushing pro-Android garbage in the face of every user on an Apple site, but also putting a blatant thief on a pedestal:

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/29/cisco_huawei_case_ends/
    https://blogs.cisco.com/news/huawei-and-ciscos-source-code-correcting-the-record

    Even when Cisco dropped the lawsuit after reaching a seemingly mutual agreement, Huawei still didn't truthfully disclose the situation as was agreed upon.

    Not to mention all the times they've been caught RED HANDED bundling malware and spyware into their products:

    https://www.techworm.net/2015/09/malware-found-pre-installed-on-xiaomi-huawei-lenovo-smartphones.html

    Bottom line, Huawei does NOT have a mass-market 3D depth-sensing facial recognition product, only a stage demo, and given their past and repeated history of IP theft, it is likely stolen technology, not to mention their products are constant knock off's of Apple products, and the quality is as piss-poor as you can get.

    Oh, and let's also keep in mind how amazingly poorly Android handles biometrics data security:

    https://www.fastcompany.com/3049553/your-fingerprint-could-be-stolen-remotely-if-your-android-phone-has-a-scanner

    And because of the craptastic nature of Android, most units with biometrics abilities remain exposed due to lack of patches being made available, which means now with the mad rush of Android OEM's like Huawei to copy Apple's Face ID, facial recognition data can likely be swiped from these devices as well.

    Thanks, but I'll be sticking with Apple for a VERY long time, and will be steering clear of ANY Chinese tech company!
    I like this comment from the Cisco blog you linked, which is both prescient, and applicable today;

    "I do not and never will trust huawei or affiliated products routing or swtiching platforms that contain huawei components such as ASICs, CPUs, Memory Modules, ect The company has too close of a relationship with the PLA for comfort and I would not want to put my self or my customers at risk of espionage or intrusion. US based companies such as cisco and several others continue to outsource manufacturing of devices to china which is basically handing over our network infrastructure on a silver platter and paying them for it. This is hurting ME the customer and my customers as there is really no alternative since 90 percent of all electronics manufacturing is done in china... I am deeply concerned about this and it will only get worse when tentions escalate or governments do what they do best which is start conflicts. I can see the day when a trade embargo hits and we find out selves with no network products or systems in the US which would effectively cripple our businesses and our country."

    Avon b7 has commented many times on how unfair it is to keep Huawei out of the marketing machine of U.S. Carriers; once burned, twice shy seems to fit.
  • Reply 20 of 39
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,056member
    avon b7 said:
    "Apple became the first major smartphone maker to leverage depth-sensing camera technology with the release of iPhone Xlast year."

    Just one minor quibble. That would be better as 3D depth-sensing as depth sensing camera technology has been used on phones for a while.

    As I said in another thread recently, Huawei has already detailed and demoed its system. The last time I looked it had more VCSEL business than Apple and as a result I can't see them having supply problems, especially as they wouldn't roll the systems out across the board.

    As for release timeframe, most rumours pointed to a release next week but as leaks have increased over the weeks, and high definition images of the new phones have appeared, it seemed unlikely that it would be included in next week's announcement. Then just yesterday, an article (I think it was Digitimes) pointed to them using the second generation Spectra ISP on the new phones.

    This area is probably the last hardware related mystery of the P20 series.
    I love how you not only keep pushing pro-Android garbage in the face of every user on an Apple site, but also putting a blatant thief on a pedestal:

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/29/cisco_huawei_case_ends/
    https://blogs.cisco.com/news/huawei-and-ciscos-source-code-correcting-the-record

    Even when Cisco dropped the lawsuit after reaching a seemingly mutual agreement, Huawei still didn't truthfully disclose the situation as was agreed upon.

    Not to mention all the times they've been caught RED HANDED bundling malware and spyware into their products:

    https://www.techworm.net/2015/09/malware-found-pre-installed-on-xiaomi-huawei-lenovo-smartphones.html

    Bottom line, Huawei does NOT have a mass-market 3D depth-sensing facial recognition product, only a stage demo, and given their past and repeated history of IP theft, it is likely stolen technology, not to mention their products are constant knock off's of Apple products, and the quality is as piss-poor as you can get.

    Oh, and let's also keep in mind how amazingly poorly Android handles biometrics data security:

    https://www.fastcompany.com/3049553/your-fingerprint-could-be-stolen-remotely-if-your-android-phone-has-a-scanner

    And because of the craptastic nature of Android, most units with biometrics abilities remain exposed due to lack of patches being made available, which means now with the mad rush of Android OEM's like Huawei to copy Apple's Face ID, facial recognition data can likely be swiped from these devices as well.

    Thanks, but I'll be sticking with Apple for a VERY long time, and will be steering clear of ANY Chinese tech company!
    The same distorted information.

    1. Cisco withdrew its complaint because it wasn't going to go anywhere. The infringement was due to a third party, NOT Huawei. 

    2. The G Data report. Did you read it? How could you have missed this:

    "Since the discovery of pre-installed 
    malware on a smartphone in spring 
    2014, G DATA security experts have 
    found more and more models on 
    which the presence of malware in 
    the firmware can be proven. But 
    where does the malware come 
    from and who is installing it? The 
    G DATA security experts are certain 
    that the manufacturers are not the 
    perpetrators in the majority of cases. 
    Renowned companies will not risk their reputation by distributing malware in the firmware." 

    Or other parts of the report that clearly point out the 'middlemen' are to blame.

    So you are linking to an article that links to a report using these words (yes, they are your words) while knowing they are false:

    "
    Not to mention all the times they've been caught RED HANDED bundling malware and spyware into their products"

    Let me repeat that. You make a claim, link to an article which in turn links to the source of the claim but the content of the linked report conflicts directly with your claim.

    3. You say: "Bottom
     line, Huawei does NOT have a mass-market 3D depth-sensing facial recognition product, only a stage demo, and given their past and repeated history of IP theft, it is likely stolen technology, not to mention their products are constant knock off's of Apple products, and the quality is as piss-poor as you can get."

    Just a few months ago Apple didn't either and even today it is only on one phone. Have you even considered why the iPhone X solution exists? It's a biometric. An alternative to TouchID. The Honor solution goes beyond that but while consolidated biometrics exist there is no rush. 'likely stolen'? So you don't even have a crumb of real information to support what you say. 'Constant knock offs'? Why not back that up with something. Have you considered just one of the reasons why Honor demoed their solution in the first place? To demonstrate that their solution wasn't in fact a ''knock off" as some like to claim, but an almost complete solution for a future phone. Revealing it when they did proved it was something they had been working on for a while and the logical extension of prior face recognition efforts that actually shipped and are shipping on phones.

    4. Quality. 'piss poor quality'? Late last year Huawei invited the press to visit some of its testing facilities. There were lots of articles about how far Huawei goes to test its phones. The first Google result:

    https://www.whistleout.com.au/MobilePhones/Guides/behind-the-scenes-at-huawei-r-and-d-lab

    You obviously missed the fact that Huawei has the world's first TüV Rheinland certified battery. A battery that is technically one of the best on the market. You clearly missed the articles on extreme cold photography and how well the Mate 10 holds up and you obviously missed the video of a Mate 10 receiving a call while trapped in the ice of a frozen lake.

    5. Android Biometric Security. Ah, you now switch focus to Android. Wasn't your rant aimed at Huawei? Or was it that your claim could fall flat on its face if you aimed it at Huawei? At every presentation of a new Huawei flagship, this point is specifically touched on. Huawei supports industry wide security protocols and has its own secure, on chip area for biometric storage.

    Your rant presents distorted information. It reads like a text from someone who is acting on suspicion but unable present anything tangible to support it. You had to go back to 2003/4 to find something and even then had to twist things.

    There was an interesting article on Huawei a few days ago that tries to detail the thinking I believe you have. You will probably agree with parts of it:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-03-22/why-america-is-so-scared-of-china-s-biggest-tech-company
    edited March 2018 singularity
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