I have used the iPhone X & it does feel like the future. But I just like the home button so much. I feel like buying a 256GB iPhone 8 rather than a 10. Any opinions ?
I stopped looking for the Home button about 30 minutes into ownership of the X.
I still miss it every day. Not to get back to the home screen, but having more accurate user authentication with better usability.
It's sounding more and more like there will no longer be a 4.7" form factor model moving forward. BIG mistake IMHO, especially if they position the LCD 6.1" variant as "entry level", which is not what anybody wants to hear about their still-expensive Apple product. The 4.7" phone is the perfect compromise for me size-wise, and in the case of the iPhone 8, is 100% on par hardware-wise, other than the camera, which is still excellent, with the X & 8 Plus. I hope that they continue something in this form factor that also stays current. I fear that they will continue to sell the 8 but offer no upgraded 4.7" option. If that happens, not only will I stick with my 8 for at least another year, I think a LOT of other people will stick with their 7's & 8's for a longer time, which will stifle overall sales numbers. Hopefully this isn't how it all plays out.
Maybe the SE will shift into the 4.7” form factor. That’d be my vote.
I have used the iPhone X & it does feel like the future. But I just like the home button so much. I feel like buying a 256GB iPhone 8 rather than a 10. Any opinions ?
You’re the only person I’ve seen who misses the home button, haven’t missed it once since I got the X, actually find it a bit weird using a home button now when I pick up my iPad.
All 3 lenses on Huawei P20 have OIS. Wonder if this will be the same with the next iPhone. The P20 camera is getting really good reviews.
They also have AIIS running through the NPU and predictive AF which is what many are calling a 'game changer' in smartphone camera technology.
Dual lens and computational imaging were together the "game changer".
Everything that follows that is just evolution, including this three lens P20, which sets the bar today, but likely isn't the innovation that Huawei really needs.
Everyone has their opinion:
"Conclusion: Gamechanger
We are used to every new smartphone camera generation being slightly better than the previous one, but looking at the images and test results from the P20 Pro, it seems Huawei has skipped one or two generations. The results are simply that good. The P20 Pro’s triple camera setup is the biggest innovation we have seen in mobile imaging for quite some time and is a real gamechanger."
I appreciate that Huawei, in partnership with Leica, has put a lot of effort into it's 3 imager P20, and it's certainly raised the bar for smartphone camera IQ, but it isn't a "game changer". That's just DXOmark pushing the hype. Will they apply the same "game changer" to the next iteration by a competitor with more than four imagers?
I would note that DXOmark was unable to test the iPhone 7 Plus for almost a year, due to having no test procedures or metrics in place, and when they finally got around to testing the iPhone 7 Plus, it topped all of the competition for a few days until the Pixel 1 was released, and coincidentally, tested.
All 3 lenses on Huawei P20 have OIS. Wonder if this will be the same with the next iPhone. The P20 camera is getting really good reviews.
They also have AIIS running through the NPU and predictive AF which is what many are calling a 'game changer' in smartphone camera technology.
Dual lens and computational imaging were together the "game changer".
Everything that follows that is just evolution, including this three lens P20, which sets the bar today, but likely isn't the innovation that Huawei really needs.
Everyone has their opinion:
"Conclusion: Gamechanger
We are used to every new smartphone camera generation being slightly better than the previous one, but looking at the images and test results from the P20 Pro, it seems Huawei has skipped one or two generations. The results are simply that good. The P20 Pro’s triple camera setup is the biggest innovation we have seen in mobile imaging for quite some time and is a real gamechanger."
I appreciate that Huawei, in partnership with Leica, has put a lot of effort into it's 3 imager P20, and it's certainly raised the bar for smartphone camera IQ, but it isn't a "game changer". That's just DXOmark pushing the hype. Will they apply the same "game changer" to the next iteration by a competitor with more than four imagers?
I would note that DXOmark was unable to test the iPhone 7 Plus for almost a year, due to having no test procedures or metrics in place, and when they finally got around to testing the iPhone 7 Plus, it topped all of the competition for a few days until the Pixel 1 was released, and coincidentally, tested.
DXO is not laughed at in all camera forums for their opaque and extremely arbitrary tests. Their methodology is half assed and non transparent (quite a mix).
DXO is a really weird self aggrandizing org that means less and less each year.
They also seemingtly are very bad at testing the overall device use because it amplifies their arbitrary nature.
All 3 lenses on Huawei P20 have OIS. Wonder if this will be the same with the next iPhone. The P20 camera is getting really good reviews.
They also have AIIS running through the NPU and predictive AF which is what many are calling a 'game changer' in smartphone camera technology.
Dual lens and computational imaging were together the "game changer".
Everything that follows that is just evolution, including this three lens P20, which sets the bar today, but likely isn't the innovation that Huawei really needs.
Everyone has their opinion:
"Conclusion: Gamechanger
We are used to every new smartphone camera generation being slightly better than the previous one, but looking at the images and test results from the P20 Pro, it seems Huawei has skipped one or two generations. The results are simply that good. The P20 Pro’s triple camera setup is the biggest innovation we have seen in mobile imaging for quite some time and is a real gamechanger."
I appreciate that Huawei, in partnership with Leica, has put a lot of effort into it's 3 imager P20, and it's certainly raised the bar for smartphone camera IQ, but it isn't a "game changer". That's just DXOmark pushing the hype. Will they apply the same "game changer" to the next iteration by a competitor with more than four imagers?
I would note that DXOmark was unable to test the iPhone 7 Plus for almost a year, due to having no test procedures or metrics in place, and when they finally got around to testing the iPhone 7 Plus, it topped all of the competition for a few days until the Pixel 1 was released, and coincidentally, tested.
Oh dear. You claim that DXO is pushing the hype and then link to a very poor The New Yorker article pushing the Apple hype and quoting Phil Schiller!
The article itself is very, very poor but OK for its US mass market target audience.
We need to rewind a little. I said 'some say' the P20 Pro is a game changer. You countered with a personal opinion painted as an absolute claim.
I supported my original statement with a link. You may not like it but it supports exactly what I said. That cannot be debated.
That said, let's consider the weight of both links. The New Yorker falls over before it gets going. It is plain wrong in suggesting the iPhone 7 Plus was the first to marry the camera and serious processing. Yes, it makes a cursory tip of the hat to Huawei's dual cameras being first but completely ignored the fact that Kirins have their own in house advanced DSP's and were doing just as much heavy lifting. It fails to mention that Portrait Mode was released in beta and that Huawei had its own take on Portrait Mode (same basic goal but reached in a different way) before Apple.
You can criticise DXO all you like for methodology, results or whatever (I would probably agree with much of it) but one thing is for sure, they have far more credibility as a source of opinion than the writer of the The New Yorker article.
When they say the P20 Pro is a game changer it is not only based on the results but the technology behind it. Yes, it is their opinion but they have put their photographic weight behind it.
It is up to each reader to reach their own conclusions whether it be game changing or evolution or setting the bar.
The reality is that the P20 Pro is doing things that other cameras simply cannot do.
Personally, I was very surprised when I saw the presentation. They really had so much more than I was expecting on the camera front. There were a lot of 'wow' moments.
You take those and roll in the Mate 10 advances (battery, fast charging, reverse charging, motion blur, the voice quality enhanced by AI, onboard translation, gigabit modem etc) and it is one heck of a phone in, without a shadow of doubt, the most stunning design yet seen on a phone. I had the opportunity to play with some and while the Twilight option is getting all the wows, the blue option is stunningly sleek.
That is now and shipping. By the end of the year the Mate 20 will be here and might add to all that with some features from the Mate RS (10W wireless charging, microcapsule cooling, inscreen fingerprint sensor, 512GB internal memory).
Competition is all that matters and Apple definitely has its work cut out. Consumers win (well perhaps not US consumers).
Gonna be tough to not go with the 3 lense Plus variant, if this is true.
Why should iPhone users be obliged to buy an oversized phone in order to have the best camera?
The success of Phone was in part that iPhone was similar to Coke as Warhol described:
What’s great about this country is that America started the tradition where the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest. You can be watching TV and see Coca-Cola, and you know that the President drinks Coke, Liz Taylor drinks Coke, and just think, you can drink Coke, too. A Coke is a Coke and no amount of money can get you a better Coke than the one the bum on the corner is drinking. All the Cokes are the same and all the Cokes are good. Liz Taylor knows it, the President knows it, the bum knows it, and you know it.
Once you could buy iPhone and know you’d got the best mobile phone. Now that is no longer the case.
Prior to the X wasn’t this already the case ... the camera on the plus being the better of the two models of iPhone ?
Yes. It began with the iPhone 6. The 6 Plus got optical image stabilization, the smaller 6 did not. The accepted explanation at the time was that there was room for OIS in the bigger phone but not the smaller one. I have no idea if that's true, though.
I think that it’s all about selling iPhone for $100 more by putting the OIS or additional lenses in the bigger phones to encourage buyers to “upgrade”.
All 3 lenses on Huawei P20 have OIS. Wonder if this will be the same with the next iPhone. The P20 camera is getting really good reviews.
They also have AIIS running through the NPU and predictive AF which is what many are calling a 'game changer' in smartphone camera technology.
Dual lens and computational imaging were together the "game changer".
Everything that follows that is just evolution, including this three lens P20, which sets the bar today, but likely isn't the innovation that Huawei really needs.
Everyone has their opinion:
"Conclusion: Gamechanger
We are used to every new smartphone camera generation being slightly better than the previous one, but looking at the images and test results from the P20 Pro, it seems Huawei has skipped one or two generations. The results are simply that good. The P20 Pro’s triple camera setup is the biggest innovation we have seen in mobile imaging for quite some time and is a real gamechanger."
I appreciate that Huawei, in partnership with Leica, has put a lot of effort into it's 3 imager P20, and it's certainly raised the bar for smartphone camera IQ, but it isn't a "game changer". That's just DXOmark pushing the hype. Will they apply the same "game changer" to the next iteration by a competitor with more than four imagers?
I would note that DXOmark was unable to test the iPhone 7 Plus for almost a year, due to having no test procedures or metrics in place, and when they finally got around to testing the iPhone 7 Plus, it topped all of the competition for a few days until the Pixel 1 was released, and coincidentally, tested.
Oh dear. You claim that DXO is pushing the hype and then link to a very poor The New Yorker article pushing the Apple hype and quoting Phil Schiller!
The article itself is very, very poor but OK for its US mass market target audience.
We need to rewind a little. I said 'some say' the P20 Pro is a game changer. You countered with a personal opinion painted as an absolute claim.
I supported my original statement with a link. You may not like it but it supports exactly what I said. That cannot be debated.
That said, let's consider the weight of both links. The New Yorker falls over before it gets going. It is plain wrong in suggesting the iPhone 7 Plus was the first to marry the camera and serious processing. Yes, it makes a cursory tip of the hat to Huawei's dual cameras being first but completely ignored the fact that Kirins have their own in house advanced DSP's and were doing just as much heavy lifting. It fails to mention that Portrait Mode was released in beta and that Huawei had its own take on Portrait Mode (same basic goal but reached in a different way) before Apple.
You can criticise DXO all you like for methodology, results or whatever (I would probably agree with much of it) but one thing is for sure, they have far more credibility as a source of opinion than the writer of the The New Yorker article.
When they say the P20 Pro is a game changer it is not only based on the results but the technology behind it. Yes, it is their opinion but they have put their photographic weight behind it.
It is up to each reader to reach their own conclusions whether it be game changing or evolution or setting the bar.
The reality is that the P20 Pro is doing things that other cameras simply cannot do.
Personally, I was very surprised when I saw the presentation. They really had so much more than I was expecting on the camera front. There were a lot of 'wow' moments.
You take those and roll in the Mate 10 advances (battery, fast charging, reverse charging, motion blur, the voice quality enhanced by AI, onboard translation, gigabit modem etc) and it is one heck of a phone in,witho a shadow of doubt, the most stunning design yet seen on a phone. I had the opportunity to play with some and while the Twilight option is getting all the wows, the blue option is stunningly sleek.
That is now and shipping. By the end of the year the Mate 20 will be here and might add to all that with some features from the Mate RS (10W wireless charging, microcapsule cooling, inscreen fingerprint sensor, 512GB internal memory).
Competition is all that matters and Apple definitely has its work cut out. Consumers win (well perhaps not US consumers).
Dude, you stated "many say", not "some say" as you now claim. "Many" did not say "game changer"; as far as I can tell only you and DXOmark have stated such.
The rest of your writing is just your editorializing, which offers little insight, as per usual.
BTW, the writer of the New Yorker article was Om Malik, whom appears to be both a tech writer and an avid photographer, so I'll take his written piece 15 months ago as accurate on the day it was published, and to support my cause, you might want to investigate the delay that DXOmark had in testing the 7 Plus.
Apple iPhone 7 Plus: Tested with the new DxOMark Mobile protocol
September 17, 2017
The iPhone 7 Plus was announced on September 14, 2016, a year earlier...
Note the new mobile protocol that was a year in the making after the release of the iPhone 7 Plus. It's a fact that the iPhone 7 Plus was a "game changer" for the DXOMark, requiring a new mobile protocol that was a year in preparation prior to the actual test of the iPhone 7 Plus.
All 3 lenses on Huawei P20 have OIS. Wonder if this will be the same with the next iPhone. The P20 camera is getting really good reviews.
They also have AIIS running through the NPU and predictive AF which is what many are calling a 'game changer' in smartphone camera technology.
Dual lens and computational imaging were together the "game changer".
Everything that follows that is just evolution, including this three lens P20, which sets the bar today, but likely isn't the innovation that Huawei really needs.
Everyone has their opinion:
"Conclusion: Gamechanger
We are used to every new smartphone camera generation being slightly better than the previous one, but looking at the images and test results from the P20 Pro, it seems Huawei has skipped one or two generations. The results are simply that good. The P20 Pro’s triple camera setup is the biggest innovation we have seen in mobile imaging for quite some time and is a real gamechanger."
I appreciate that Huawei, in partnership with Leica, has put a lot of effort into it's 3 imager P20, and it's certainly raised the bar for smartphone camera IQ, but it isn't a "game changer". That's just DXOmark pushing the hype. Will they apply the same "game changer" to the next iteration by a competitor with more than four imagers?
I would note that DXOmark was unable to test the iPhone 7 Plus for almost a year, due to having no test procedures or metrics in place, and when they finally got around to testing the iPhone 7 Plus, it topped all of the competition for a few days until the Pixel 1 was released, and coincidentally, tested.
Oh dear. You claim that DXO is pushing the hype and then link to a very poor The New Yorker article pushing the Apple hype and quoting Phil Schiller!
The article itself is very, very poor but OK for its US mass market target audience.
We need to rewind a little. I said 'some say' the P20 Pro is a game changer. You countered with a personal opinion painted as an absolute claim.
I supported my original statement with a link. You may not like it but it supports exactly what I said. That cannot be debated.
That said, let's consider the weight of both links. The New Yorker falls over before it gets going. It is plain wrong in suggesting the iPhone 7 Plus was the first to marry the camera and serious processing. Yes, it makes a cursory tip of the hat to Huawei's dual cameras being first but completely ignored the fact that Kirins have their own in house advanced DSP's and were doing just as much heavy lifting. It fails to mention that Portrait Mode was released in beta and that Huawei had its own take on Portrait Mode (same basic goal but reached in a different way) before Apple.
You can criticise DXO all you like for methodology, results or whatever (I would probably agree with much of it) but one thing is for sure, they have far more credibility as a source of opinion than the writer of the The New Yorker article.
When they say the P20 Pro is a game changer it is not only based on the results but the technology behind it. Yes, it is their opinion but they have put their photographic weight behind it.
It is up to each reader to reach their own conclusions whether it be game changing or evolution or setting the bar.
The reality is that the P20 Pro is doing things that other cameras simply cannot do.
Personally, I was very surprised when I saw the presentation. They really had so much more than I was expecting on the camera front. There were a lot of 'wow' moments.
You take those and roll in the Mate 10 advances (battery, fast charging, reverse charging, motion blur, the voice quality enhanced by AI, onboard translation, gigabit modem etc) and it is one heck of a phone in,witho a shadow of doubt, the most stunning design yet seen on a phone. I had the opportunity to play with some and while the Twilight option is getting all the wows, the blue option is stunningly sleek.
That is now and shipping. By the end of the year the Mate 20 will be here and might add to all that with some features from the Mate RS (10W wireless charging, microcapsule cooling, inscreen fingerprint sensor, 512GB internal memory).
Competition is all that matters and Apple definitely has its work cut out. Consumers win (well perhaps not US consumers).
Dude, you stated "many say", not "some say" as you now claim. "Many" did not say "game changer"; as far as I can tell only you and DXOmark have stated such.
The rest of your writing is just your editorializing, which offers little insight, as per usual.
BTW, the writer of the New Yorker article was Om Malik, whom appears to be both a tech writer and an avid photographer, so I'll take his written piece 15 months ago as accurate on the day it was published, and to support my cause, you might want to investigate the delay that DXOmark had in testing the 7 Plus.
Apple iPhone 7 Plus: Tested with the new DxOMark Mobile protocol
September 17, 2017
The iPhone 7 Plus was announced on September 14, 2016, a year earlier...
Note the new mobile protocol that was a year in the making after the release of the iPhone 7 Plus. It's a fact that the iPhone 7 Plus was a "game changer" for the DXOMark, requiring a new mobile protocol that was a year in preparation prior to the actual test of the iPhone 7 Plus.
Sorry, 'many'. I was writing from memory. You get the gist, 'game changer', 'before and after' etc. The point was many are heralding the P20 Pro as a turning point.
Om Malik was simply wrong on some points. What can I say. I'm sure he would have researched a little more if the article had been destined for a more specialised audience.
That doesn't change anything though. Readers will have to decide how they see it.
All 3 lenses on Huawei P20 have OIS. Wonder if this will be the same with the next iPhone. The P20 camera is getting really good reviews.
They also have AIIS running through the NPU and predictive AF which is what many are calling a 'game changer' in smartphone camera technology.
Dual lens and computational imaging were together the "game changer".
Everything that follows that is just evolution, including this three lens P20, which sets the bar today, but likely isn't the innovation that Huawei really needs.
Everyone has their opinion:
"Conclusion: Gamechanger
We are used to every new smartphone camera generation being slightly better than the previous one, but looking at the images and test results from the P20 Pro, it seems Huawei has skipped one or two generations. The results are simply that good. The P20 Pro’s triple camera setup is the biggest innovation we have seen in mobile imaging for quite some time and is a real gamechanger."
I appreciate that Huawei, in partnership with Leica, has put a lot of effort into it's 3 imager P20, and it's certainly raised the bar for smartphone camera IQ, but it isn't a "game changer". That's just DXOmark pushing the hype. Will they apply the same "game changer" to the next iteration by a competitor with more than four imagers?
I would note that DXOmark was unable to test the iPhone 7 Plus for almost a year, due to having no test procedures or metrics in place, and when they finally got around to testing the iPhone 7 Plus, it topped all of the competition for a few days until the Pixel 1 was released, and coincidentally, tested.
Oh dear. You claim that DXO is pushing the hype and then link to a very poor The New Yorker article pushing the Apple hype and quoting Phil Schiller!
The article itself is very, very poor but OK for its US mass market target audience.
We need to rewind a little. I said 'some say' the P20 Pro is a game changer. You countered with a personal opinion painted as an absolute claim.
I supported my original statement with a link. You may not like it but it supports exactly what I said. That cannot be debated.
That said, let's consider the weight of both links. The New Yorker falls over before it gets going. It is plain wrong in suggesting the iPhone 7 Plus was the first to marry the camera and serious processing. Yes, it makes a cursory tip of the hat to Huawei's dual cameras being first but completely ignored the fact that Kirins have their own in house advanced DSP's and were doing just as much heavy lifting. It fails to mention that Portrait Mode was released in beta and that Huawei had its own take on Portrait Mode (same basic goal but reached in a different way) before Apple.
You can criticise DXO all you like for methodology, results or whatever (I would probably agree with much of it) but one thing is for sure, they have far more credibility as a source of opinion than the writer of the The New Yorker article.
When they say the P20 Pro is a game changer it is not only based on the results but the technology behind it. Yes, it is their opinion but they have put their photographic weight behind it.
It is up to each reader to reach their own conclusions whether it be game changing or evolution or setting the bar.
The reality is that the P20 Pro is doing things that other cameras simply cannot do.
Personally, I was very surprised when I saw the presentation. They really had so much more than I was expecting on the camera front. There were a lot of 'wow' moments.
You take those and roll in the Mate 10 advances (battery, fast charging, reverse charging, motion blur, the voice quality enhanced by AI, onboard translation, gigabit modem etc) and it is one heck of a phone in,witho a shadow of doubt, the most stunning design yet seen on a phone. I had the opportunity to play with some and while the Twilight option is getting all the wows, the blue option is stunningly sleek.
That is now and shipping. By the end of the year the Mate 20 will be here and might add to all that with some features from the Mate RS (10W wireless charging, microcapsule cooling, inscreen fingerprint sensor, 512GB internal memory).
Competition is all that matters and Apple definitely has its work cut out. Consumers win (well perhaps not US consumers).
Dude, you stated "many say", not "some say" as you now claim. "Many" did not say "game changer"; as far as I can tell only you and DXOmark have stated such.
The rest of your writing is just your editorializing, which offers little insight, as per usual.
BTW, the writer of the New Yorker article was Om Malik, whom appears to be both a tech writer and an avid photographer, so I'll take his written piece 15 months ago as accurate on the day it was published, and to support my cause, you might want to investigate the delay that DXOmark had in testing the 7 Plus.
Apple iPhone 7 Plus: Tested with the new DxOMark Mobile protocol
September 17, 2017
The iPhone 7 Plus was announced on September 14, 2016, a year earlier...
Note the new mobile protocol that was a year in the making after the release of the iPhone 7 Plus. It's a fact that the iPhone 7 Plus was a "game changer" for the DXOMark, requiring a new mobile protocol that was a year in preparation prior to the actual test of the iPhone 7 Plus.
Sorry, 'many'. I was writing from memory. You get the gist, 'game changer', 'before and after' etc. The point was many are heralding the P20 Pro as a turning point.
Om Malik was simply wrong on some points. What can I say. I'm sure he would have researched a little more if the article had been destined for a more specialised audience.
That doesn't change anything though. Readers will have to decide how they see it.
No, a quick Google search shows that "many" heralding the P20 as a "turning point" is just as false a statement as "many say" that the P20 is a "Game Changer".
Why you keep making false statements in support of the P20 is beyond me.
All 3 lenses on Huawei P20 have OIS. Wonder if this will be the same with the next iPhone. The P20 camera is getting really good reviews.
They also have AIIS running through the NPU and predictive AF which is what many are calling a 'game changer' in smartphone camera technology.
Dual lens and computational imaging were together the "game changer".
Everything that follows that is just evolution, including this three lens P20, which sets the bar today, but likely isn't the innovation that Huawei really needs.
Everyone has their opinion:
"Conclusion: Gamechanger
We are used to every new smartphone camera generation being slightly better than the previous one, but looking at the images and test results from the P20 Pro, it seems Huawei has skipped one or two generations. The results are simply that good. The P20 Pro’s triple camera setup is the biggest innovation we have seen in mobile imaging for quite some time and is a real gamechanger."
I appreciate that Huawei, in partnership with Leica, has put a lot of effort into it's 3 imager P20, and it's certainly raised the bar for smartphone camera IQ, but it isn't a "game changer". That's just DXOmark pushing the hype. Will they apply the same "game changer" to the next iteration by a competitor with more than four imagers?
I would note that DXOmark was unable to test the iPhone 7 Plus for almost a year, due to having no test procedures or metrics in place, and when they finally got around to testing the iPhone 7 Plus, it topped all of the competition for a few days until the Pixel 1 was released, and coincidentally, tested.
Oh dear. You claim that DXO is pushing the hype and then link to a very poor The New Yorker article pushing the Apple hype and quoting Phil Schiller!
The article itself is very, very poor but OK for its US mass market target audience.
We need to rewind a little. I said 'some say' the P20 Pro is a game changer. You countered with a personal opinion painted as an absolute claim.
I supported my original statement with a link. You may not like it but it supports exactly what I said. That cannot be debated.
That said, let's consider the weight of both links. The New Yorker falls over before it gets going. It is plain wrong in suggesting the iPhone 7 Plus was the first to marry the camera and serious processing. Yes, it makes a cursory tip of the hat to Huawei's dual cameras being first but completely ignored the fact that Kirins have their own in house advanced DSP's and were doing just as much heavy lifting. It fails to mention that Portrait Mode was released in beta and that Huawei had its own take on Portrait Mode (same basic goal but reached in a different way) before Apple.
You can criticise DXO all you like for methodology, results or whatever (I would probably agree with much of it) but one thing is for sure, they have far more credibility as a source of opinion than the writer of the The New Yorker article.
When they say the P20 Pro is a game changer it is not only based on the results but the technology behind it. Yes, it is their opinion but they have put their photographic weight behind it.
It is up to each reader to reach their own conclusions whether it be game changing or evolution or setting the bar.
The reality is that the P20 Pro is doing things that other cameras simply cannot do.
Personally, I was very surprised when I saw the presentation. They really had so much more than I was expecting on the camera front. There were a lot of 'wow' moments.
You take those and roll in the Mate 10 advances (battery, fast charging, reverse charging, motion blur, the voice quality enhanced by AI, onboard translation, gigabit modem etc) and it is one heck of a phone in,witho a shadow of doubt, the most stunning design yet seen on a phone. I had the opportunity to play with some and while the Twilight option is getting all the wows, the blue option is stunningly sleek.
That is now and shipping. By the end of the year the Mate 20 will be here and might add to all that with some features from the Mate RS (10W wireless charging, microcapsule cooling, inscreen fingerprint sensor, 512GB internal memory).
Competition is all that matters and Apple definitely has its work cut out. Consumers win (well perhaps not US consumers).
Dude, you stated "many say", not "some say" as you now claim. "Many" did not say "game changer"; as far as I can tell only you and DXOmark have stated such.
The rest of your writing is just your editorializing, which offers little insight, as per usual.
BTW, the writer of the New Yorker article was Om Malik, whom appears to be both a tech writer and an avid photographer, so I'll take his written piece 15 months ago as accurate on the day it was published, and to support my cause, you might want to investigate the delay that DXOmark had in testing the 7 Plus.
Apple iPhone 7 Plus: Tested with the new DxOMark Mobile protocol
September 17, 2017
The iPhone 7 Plus was announced on September 14, 2016, a year earlier...
Note the new mobile protocol that was a year in the making after the release of the iPhone 7 Plus. It's a fact that the iPhone 7 Plus was a "game changer" for the DXOMark, requiring a new mobile protocol that was a year in preparation prior to the actual test of the iPhone 7 Plus.
Sorry, 'many'. I was writing from memory. You get the gist, 'game changer', 'before and after' etc. The point was many are heralding the P20 Pro as a turning point.
Om Malik was simply wrong on some points. What can I say. I'm sure he would have researched a little more if the article had been destined for a more specialised audience.
That doesn't change anything though. Readers will have to decide how they see it.
No, a quick Google search shows that "many" heralding the P20 as a "turning point" is just as false a statement as "many say" that the P20 is a "Game Changer".
Why you keep making false statements in support of the P20 is beyond me.
Page one of my Google results:
"Huawei P20 Pro: Game Changer In The World Of Phone Cameras"
Usually a report like this would be easily dismissed were it not for the impressive performance of the Huawei P20 Pro, which has been impressing reviewers with its excellent camera quality."
"Potentially, this is a game-changer in terms of the pictorial detail this phone can capture and something that elevates it from the status of flagship also-ran.
The best part about the article isn’t even how well it’s written. It’s that I read it in Cave Johnson’s voice, yet it predates this game by seven years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLmiknX8bFI
All 3 lenses on Huawei P20 have OIS. Wonder if this will be the same with the next iPhone. The P20 camera is getting really good reviews.
They also have AIIS running through the NPU and predictive AF which is what many are calling a 'game changer' in smartphone camera technology.
Dual lens and computational imaging were together the "game changer".
Everything that follows that is just evolution, including this three lens P20, which sets the bar today, but likely isn't the innovation that Huawei really needs.
Everyone has their opinion:
"Conclusion: Gamechanger
We are used to every new smartphone camera generation being slightly better than the previous one, but looking at the images and test results from the P20 Pro, it seems Huawei has skipped one or two generations. The results are simply that good. The P20 Pro’s triple camera setup is the biggest innovation we have seen in mobile imaging for quite some time and is a real gamechanger."
I appreciate that Huawei, in partnership with Leica, has put a lot of effort into it's 3 imager P20, and it's certainly raised the bar for smartphone camera IQ, but it isn't a "game changer". That's just DXOmark pushing the hype. Will they apply the same "game changer" to the next iteration by a competitor with more than four imagers?
I would note that DXOmark was unable to test the iPhone 7 Plus for almost a year, due to having no test procedures or metrics in place, and when they finally got around to testing the iPhone 7 Plus, it topped all of the competition for a few days until the Pixel 1 was released, and coincidentally, tested.
Oh dear. You claim that DXO is pushing the hype and then link to a very poor The New Yorker article pushing the Apple hype and quoting Phil Schiller!
The article itself is very, very poor but OK for its US mass market target audience.
We need to rewind a little. I said 'some say' the P20 Pro is a game changer. You countered with a personal opinion painted as an absolute claim.
I supported my original statement with a link. You may not like it but it supports exactly what I said. That cannot be debated.
That said, let's consider the weight of both links. The New Yorker falls over before it gets going. It is plain wrong in suggesting the iPhone 7 Plus was the first to marry the camera and serious processing. Yes, it makes a cursory tip of the hat to Huawei's dual cameras being first but completely ignored the fact that Kirins have their own in house advanced DSP's and were doing just as much heavy lifting. It fails to mention that Portrait Mode was released in beta and that Huawei had its own take on Portrait Mode (same basic goal but reached in a different way) before Apple.
You can criticise DXO all you like for methodology, results or whatever (I would probably agree with much of it) but one thing is for sure, they have far more credibility as a source of opinion than the writer of the The New Yorker article.
When they say the P20 Pro is a game changer it is not only based on the results but the technology behind it. Yes, it is their opinion but they have put their photographic weight behind it.
It is up to each reader to reach their own conclusions whether it be game changing or evolution or setting the bar.
The reality is that the P20 Pro is doing things that other cameras simply cannot do.
Personally, I was very surprised when I saw the presentation. They really had so much more than I was expecting on the camera front. There were a lot of 'wow' moments.
You take those and roll in the Mate 10 advances (battery, fast charging, reverse charging, motion blur, the voice quality enhanced by AI, onboard translation, gigabit modem etc) and it is one heck of a phone in,witho a shadow of doubt, the most stunning design yet seen on a phone. I had the opportunity to play with some and while the Twilight option is getting all the wows, the blue option is stunningly sleek.
That is now and shipping. By the end of the year the Mate 20 will be here and might add to all that with some features from the Mate RS (10W wireless charging, microcapsule cooling, inscreen fingerprint sensor, 512GB internal memory).
Competition is all that matters and Apple definitely has its work cut out. Consumers win (well perhaps not US consumers).
Dude, you stated "many say", not "some say" as you now claim. "Many" did not say "game changer"; as far as I can tell only you and DXOmark have stated such.
The rest of your writing is just your editorializing, which offers little insight, as per usual.
BTW, the writer of the New Yorker article was Om Malik, whom appears to be both a tech writer and an avid photographer, so I'll take his written piece 15 months ago as accurate on the day it was published, and to support my cause, you might want to investigate the delay that DXOmark had in testing the 7 Plus.
Apple iPhone 7 Plus: Tested with the new DxOMark Mobile protocol
September 17, 2017
The iPhone 7 Plus was announced on September 14, 2016, a year earlier...
Note the new mobile protocol that was a year in the making after the release of the iPhone 7 Plus. It's a fact that the iPhone 7 Plus was a "game changer" for the DXOMark, requiring a new mobile protocol that was a year in preparation prior to the actual test of the iPhone 7 Plus.
Sorry, 'many'. I was writing from memory. You get the gist, 'game changer', 'before and after' etc. The point was many are heralding the P20 Pro as a turning point.
Om Malik was simply wrong on some points. What can I say. I'm sure he would have researched a little more if the article had been destined for a more specialised audience.
That doesn't change anything though. Readers will have to decide how they see it.
No, a quick Google search shows that "many" heralding the P20 as a "turning point" is just as false a statement as "many say" that the P20 is a "Game Changer".
Why you keep making false statements in support of the P20 is beyond me.
Page one of my Google results:
"Huawei P20 Pro: Game Changer In The World Of Phone Cameras"
Usually a report like this would be easily dismissed were it not for the impressive performance of the Huawei P20 Pro, which has been impressing reviewers with its excellent camera quality."
"Potentially, this is a game-changer in terms of the pictorial detail this phone can capture and something that elevates it from the status of flagship also-ran.
All 3 lenses on Huawei P20 have OIS. Wonder if this will be the same with the next iPhone. The P20 camera is getting really good reviews.
They also have AIIS running through the NPU and predictive AF which is what many are calling a 'game changer' in smartphone camera technology.
Dual lens and computational imaging were together the "game changer".
Everything that follows that is just evolution, including this three lens P20, which sets the bar today, but likely isn't the innovation that Huawei really needs.
Everyone has their opinion:
"Conclusion: Gamechanger
We are used to every new smartphone camera generation being slightly better than the previous one, but looking at the images and test results from the P20 Pro, it seems Huawei has skipped one or two generations. The results are simply that good. The P20 Pro’s triple camera setup is the biggest innovation we have seen in mobile imaging for quite some time and is a real gamechanger."
I appreciate that Huawei, in partnership with Leica, has put a lot of effort into it's 3 imager P20, and it's certainly raised the bar for smartphone camera IQ, but it isn't a "game changer". That's just DXOmark pushing the hype. Will they apply the same "game changer" to the next iteration by a competitor with more than four imagers?
I would note that DXOmark was unable to test the iPhone 7 Plus for almost a year, due to having no test procedures or metrics in place, and when they finally got around to testing the iPhone 7 Plus, it topped all of the competition for a few days until the Pixel 1 was released, and coincidentally, tested.
Oh dear. You claim that DXO is pushing the hype and then link to a very poor The New Yorker article pushing the Apple hype and quoting Phil Schiller!
The article itself is very, very poor but OK for its US mass market target audience.
We need to rewind a little. I said 'some say' the P20 Pro is a game changer. You countered with a personal opinion painted as an absolute claim.
I supported my original statement with a link. You may not like it but it supports exactly what I said. That cannot be debated.
That said, let's consider the weight of both links. The New Yorker falls over before it gets going. It is plain wrong in suggesting the iPhone 7 Plus was the first to marry the camera and serious processing. Yes, it makes a cursory tip of the hat to Huawei's dual cameras being first but completely ignored the fact that Kirins have their own in house advanced DSP's and were doing just as much heavy lifting. It fails to mention that Portrait Mode was released in beta and that Huawei had its own take on Portrait Mode (same basic goal but reached in a different way) before Apple.
You can criticise DXO all you like for methodology, results or whatever (I would probably agree with much of it) but one thing is for sure, they have far more credibility as a source of opinion than the writer of the The New Yorker article.
When they say the P20 Pro is a game changer it is not only based on the results but the technology behind it. Yes, it is their opinion but they have put their photographic weight behind it.
It is up to each reader to reach their own conclusions whether it be game changing or evolution or setting the bar.
The reality is that the P20 Pro is doing things that other cameras simply cannot do.
Personally, I was very surprised when I saw the presentation. They really had so much more than I was expecting on the camera front. There were a lot of 'wow' moments.
You take those and roll in the Mate 10 advances (battery, fast charging, reverse charging, motion blur, the voice quality enhanced by AI, onboard translation, gigabit modem etc) and it is one heck of a phone in,witho a shadow of doubt, the most stunning design yet seen on a phone. I had the opportunity to play with some and while the Twilight option is getting all the wows, the blue option is stunningly sleek.
That is now and shipping. By the end of the year the Mate 20 will be here and might add to all that with some features from the Mate RS (10W wireless charging, microcapsule cooling, inscreen fingerprint sensor, 512GB internal memory).
Competition is all that matters and Apple definitely has its work cut out. Consumers win (well perhaps not US consumers).
Dude, you stated "many say", not "some say" as you now claim. "Many" did not say "game changer"; as far as I can tell only you and DXOmark have stated such.
The rest of your writing is just your editorializing, which offers little insight, as per usual.
BTW, the writer of the New Yorker article was Om Malik, whom appears to be both a tech writer and an avid photographer, so I'll take his written piece 15 months ago as accurate on the day it was published, and to support my cause, you might want to investigate the delay that DXOmark had in testing the 7 Plus.
Apple iPhone 7 Plus: Tested with the new DxOMark Mobile protocol
September 17, 2017
The iPhone 7 Plus was announced on September 14, 2016, a year earlier...
Note the new mobile protocol that was a year in the making after the release of the iPhone 7 Plus. It's a fact that the iPhone 7 Plus was a "game changer" for the DXOMark, requiring a new mobile protocol that was a year in preparation prior to the actual test of the iPhone 7 Plus.
Sorry, 'many'. I was writing from memory. You get the gist, 'game changer', 'before and after' etc. The point was many are heralding the P20 Pro as a turning point.
Om Malik was simply wrong on some points. What can I say. I'm sure he would have researched a little more if the article had been destined for a more specialised audience.
That doesn't change anything though. Readers will have to decide how they see it.
No, a quick Google search shows that "many" heralding the P20 as a "turning point" is just as false a statement as "many say" that the P20 is a "Game Changer".
Why you keep making false statements in support of the P20 is beyond me.
Page one of my Google results:
"Huawei P20 Pro: Game Changer In The World Of Phone Cameras"
Usually a report like this would be easily dismissed were it not for the impressive performance of the Huawei P20 Pro, which has been impressing reviewers with its excellent camera quality."
"Potentially, this is a game-changer in terms of the pictorial detail this phone can capture and something that elevates it from the status of flagship also-ran.
That is just the first page of my Google results and limiting them to English.
Do a similar search for iPhone 7 Plus Gamechanger, iPhone X Gamechanger; yeah, lots of them.
It's just bad journalism to use Gamechanger in a sentence...
I am not judging anything regarding 'game changing'. Just saying what I've read people say.
I said it was up to people to form their own opinions but you accused me of making false statements and said your Google search supported your claims. I simply did the same as you and posted the links - limiting the results to English.
What does the iPhone 7 Plus have to do with what's going on today?
The Walkman was a game changer too. Many things were.
Gonna be tough to not go with the 3 lense Plus variant, if this is true.
Why should iPhone users be obliged to buy an oversized phone in order to have the best camera?
The success of Phone was in part that iPhone was similar to Coke as Warhol described:
What’s great about this country is that America started the tradition where the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest. You can be watching TV and see Coca-Cola, and you know that the President drinks Coke, Liz Taylor drinks Coke, and just think, you can drink Coke, too. A Coke is a Coke and no amount of money can get you a better Coke than the one the bum on the corner is drinking. All the Cokes are the same and all the Cokes are good. Liz Taylor knows it, the President knows it, the bum knows it, and you know it.
Once you could buy iPhone and know you’d got the best mobile phone. Now that is no longer the case.
Of course it’s still the case. All iPhone models run iOS. No other phones run iOS. You can’t get a phone that runs anything better than iOS. So if you buy an iPhone you know you’ve got the best. Unless you agree having a liter of coke is better than having a 10oz bottle. Then, yes get the liter and feel you’ve truly got the best. And drink it while holding your iPhone X.
This. It’s why Gruber writes that if forced to choose he’d rather use macOS & iOS on knockoff hardware than use Windows or Android on Apple hardware. macOS & iOS are the Coke.
Are we just going to keep stacking lenses on to the phone? Maybe it’s for 4x zoom this time?
It's going to quickly become like Gillette razor blades. Yes, there are benefits to having more than just one blade, but at some point you're just going to be adding additional blades in order to have some way to distinguish your product. I don't think we've quite reached that point with cameras on phones, but I worry it will go that way.
Why worry about something that isn't really your concern? Do you work at Apple? If not, don't worry.
Well, if it's none of my concern because I don't work there, why should anyone be reading websites like this one? Let alone comment on it. How many comments on threads here are complaining about Apple adding "unnecessary" features that are perceived as adding no real value?
Gonna be tough to not go with the 3 lense Plus variant, if this is true.
Why should iPhone users be obliged to buy an oversized phone in order to have the best camera?
The success of Phone was in part that iPhone was similar to Coke as Warhol described:
What’s great about this country is that America started the tradition where the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest. You can be watching TV and see Coca-Cola, and you know that the President drinks Coke, Liz Taylor drinks Coke, and just think, you can drink Coke, too. A Coke is a Coke and no amount of money can get you a better Coke than the one the bum on the corner is drinking. All the Cokes are the same and all the Cokes are good. Liz Taylor knows it, the President knows it, the bum knows it, and you know it.
Once you could buy iPhone and know you’d got the best mobile phone. Now that is no longer the case.
Of course it’s still the case. All iPhone models run iOS. No other phones run iOS. You can’t get a phone that runs anything better than iOS. So if you buy an iPhone you know you’ve got the best. Unless you agree having a liter of coke is better than having a 10oz bottle. Then, yes get the liter and feel you’ve truly got the best. And drink it while holding your iPhone X.
This. It’s why Gruber writes that if forced to choose he’d rather use macOS & iOS on knockoff hardware than use Windows or Android on Apple hardware. macOS & iOS are the Coke.
That's purely a personal opinion. In that realm you will see the pendulum swinging both ways for hundreds of millions of users. On a phone, I'll take Android over iOS any day but that's just my personal opinion.
The OS is not the phone. Today, the apps are the phone. Stock iOS without third party apps would find very few takers (not even Gruber). iPhone without WeChat in China would suffer instant death.
If you focus on iOS, in spite of the fact that you probably spend 90% of your time in your apps and not directly interacting with the OS, you see some issues that should have been remedied from the start. Was it normal for iOS to have such major failings when managing such prehistoric issues like email attachments? Sending a file directly to the person sitting next to you by BT or NFC? Is shake to undo an easily discoverable action? iTunes synchronisation? iOS is not flexible. Android is. Some people prefer flexibility. Others don't. Again, it's personal opinion.
Are you going to fire back with privacy and security? How did that help FB users with CA?
You might feel safe in your house but you can't stay there forever and never venture out, and you aren't as safe as you think you are anyway.
You are always just one mega bug or error away from disaster. That applies to everyone.
Comments
I appreciate that Huawei, in partnership with Leica, has put a lot of effort into it's 3 imager P20, and it's certainly raised the bar for smartphone camera IQ, but it isn't a "game changer". That's just DXOmark pushing the hype. Will they apply the same "game changer" to the next iteration by a competitor with more than four imagers?
I would note that DXOmark was unable to test the iPhone 7 Plus for almost a year, due to having no test procedures or metrics in place, and when they finally got around to testing the iPhone 7 Plus, it topped all of the competition for a few days until the Pixel 1 was released, and coincidentally, tested.
https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/with-the-iphone-7-apple-changed-the-camera-industry-forever
Gee, did DXOmark miss that?
Here's another, less flattering take on Huawei's P20 imaging;
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/04/09/huawei_p20_pro_review/
The article itself is very, very poor but OK for its US mass market target audience.
We need to rewind a little. I said 'some say' the P20 Pro is a game changer. You countered with a personal opinion painted as an absolute claim.
I supported my original statement with a link. You may not like it but it supports exactly what I said. That cannot be debated.
That said, let's consider the weight of both links. The New Yorker falls over before it gets going. It is plain wrong in suggesting the iPhone 7 Plus was the first to marry the camera and serious processing. Yes, it makes a cursory tip of the hat to Huawei's dual cameras being first but completely ignored the fact that Kirins have their own in house advanced DSP's and were doing just as much heavy lifting. It fails to mention that Portrait Mode was released in beta and that Huawei had its own take on Portrait Mode (same basic goal but reached in a different way) before Apple.
You can criticise DXO all you like for methodology, results or whatever (I would probably agree with much of it) but one thing is for sure, they have far more credibility as a source of opinion than the writer of the The New Yorker article.
When they say the P20 Pro is a game changer it is not only based on the results but the technology behind it. Yes, it is their opinion but they have put their photographic weight behind it.
It is up to each reader to reach their own conclusions whether it be game changing or evolution or setting the bar.
The reality is that the P20 Pro is doing things that other cameras simply cannot do.
Personally, I was very surprised when I saw the presentation. They really had so much more than I was expecting on the camera front. There were a lot of 'wow' moments.
You take those and roll in the Mate 10 advances (battery, fast charging, reverse charging, motion blur, the voice quality enhanced by AI, onboard translation, gigabit modem etc) and it is one heck of a phone in, without a shadow of doubt, the most stunning design yet seen on a phone. I had the opportunity to play with some and while the Twilight option is getting all the wows, the blue option is stunningly sleek.
That is now and shipping. By the end of the year the Mate 20 will be here and might add to all that with some features from the Mate RS (10W wireless charging, microcapsule cooling, inscreen fingerprint sensor, 512GB internal memory).
Competition is all that matters and Apple definitely has its work cut out. Consumers win (well perhaps not US consumers).
So... according to this, each pixel is split in half, which means each pixel is half the size, half as sensitive, and has double the noise floor.
The rest of your writing is just your editorializing, which offers little insight, as per usual.
BTW, the writer of the New Yorker article was Om Malik, whom appears to be both a tech writer and an avid photographer, so I'll take his written piece 15 months ago as accurate on the day it was published, and to support my cause, you might want to investigate the delay that DXOmark had in testing the 7 Plus.
https://www.dxomark.com/apple-iphone-7-plus-camera-review-tested-new-dxomark-mobile-protocol/
Apple iPhone 7 Plus: Tested with the new DxOMark Mobile protocol
September 17, 2017
The iPhone 7 Plus was announced on September 14, 2016, a year earlier...
Note the new mobile protocol that was a year in the making after the release of the iPhone 7 Plus. It's a fact that the iPhone 7 Plus was a "game changer" for the DXOMark, requiring a new mobile protocol that was a year in preparation prior to the actual test of the iPhone 7 Plus.
Om Malik was simply wrong on some points. What can I say. I'm sure he would have researched a little more if the article had been destined for a more specialised audience.
That doesn't change anything though. Readers will have to decide how they see it.
Why you keep making false statements in support of the P20 is beyond me.
"Huawei P20 Pro: Game Changer In The World Of Phone Cameras"
http://pageone.ph/huawei-p20-pro-game-changer-in-the-world-of-phone-cameras/"Huawei P20 and P20 Pro hands-on: This camera is a game-changer"
https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/feature-huawei-p20-and-p20-pro-hands-camera-game-changer
"This is Huawei P20 pro - The Real Game Changer"
"Game changer
Usually a report like this would be easily dismissed were it not for the impressive performance of the Huawei P20 Pro, which has been impressing reviewers with its excellent camera quality."
https://www.techradar.com/news/iphone-12-to-bring-in-huawei-p20-pros-best-feature
Why Huawei’s P20 Pro is a game changer for mobile cameras
https://www.pickr.com.au/qa/2018/why-huaweis-p20-pro-is-a-game-changer-for-mobile-cameras/"Potentially, this is a game-changer in terms of the pictorial detail this phone can capture and something that elevates it from the status of flagship also-ran.
Truly, this camera is an absolute monster"
https://www.pcauthority.com.au/feature/hands-on-preview-huawei-p20-pro-487890
"Huawei P20 And P20 Pro : The Game Changer"
https://www.andro4tech.com/huawei-p20-and-p20-pro-the-game-changer/"A real game changer in mobile photography"
https://www.techspot.com/amp/news/73898-huawei-launches-stunning-triple-camera-p20-pro-smartphone.html"the P20 Pro’s triple-camera system may just be a game changer."
https://www.lowyat.net/2018/158855/huawei-p20-p20-pro-hands-on-truly-reinventing-mobile-photography/
That is just the first page of my Google results and limiting them to English.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLmiknX8bFI
It's just bad journalism to use Gamechanger in a sentence...
I said it was up to people to form their own opinions but you accused me of making false statements and said your Google search supported your claims. I simply did the same as you and posted the links - limiting the results to English.
What does the iPhone 7 Plus have to do with what's going on today?
The Walkman was a game changer too. Many things were.
well, will it end up similar to this:
I'll just leave this here.
The OS is not the phone. Today, the apps are the phone. Stock iOS without third party apps would find very few takers (not even Gruber). iPhone without WeChat in China would suffer instant death.
If you focus on iOS, in spite of the fact that you probably spend 90% of your time in your apps and not directly interacting with the OS, you see some issues that should have been remedied from the start. Was it normal for iOS to have such major failings when managing such prehistoric issues like email attachments? Sending a file directly to the person sitting next to you by BT or NFC? Is shake to undo an easily discoverable action? iTunes synchronisation? iOS is not flexible. Android is. Some people prefer flexibility. Others don't. Again, it's personal opinion.
Are you going to fire back with privacy and security? How did that help FB users with CA?
You might feel safe in your house but you can't stay there forever and never venture out, and you aren't as safe as you think you are anyway.
You are always just one mega bug or error away from disaster. That applies to everyone.
Living life with air gaps isn't much fun either.