I believe Amazon is more than a few steps ahead of Apple along the path to providing real-world implementations of usable Ambient Intelligence environments - which is something Amazon seems focused on with laser like intensity.
The thing to remember about "built-in" technology in homes is that technology changes very rapidly. Stuff that seems cutting-edge today can seem like a clunky anachronism in less than a decade.
Agreed, like embedding tablet like functionality into refrigerator doors.
A better approach is modularity+replaceability. If the required sensors, actuators, human-machine interfaces, etc., are modular and replaceable (ideally following Liscov-like substitution principles) and based an open connectivity standard (like ethernet) then the risk of obsolescence can be mitigated or at least delayed. The built-in cases are the worst situation, however when we're talking about resilient architectures a lot of implementations overemphasize the notion of modularity with inadequate consideration for replaceability. Proprietary (closed) modularity mechanisms like specialized protocols, connectors, busses, chassis, etc., are often little better than "built-in" technology.
What's going to happen when Amazon discontinues Alexa in another year or so when the ounce of profitability it has vanishes and they move on to their next 2 year idea?
Seriously, no one should be this heavily invested in anything from Amazon. It can and will be gone without warning and without a trace.
The Information reports that Amazon is gaining an edge on Apple with smart home builders so AI uses it as an opportunity to smear Amazon and accuse the company of surveillance. Why am I not surprised. OK AI if Amazon is such a bad actor that people will need to “rip microphones out of their own ceilings” why isn’t Apple doing more to court home builders to make HomeKit and Siri the preferred platform for smart homes? Also why does AI have such a bias against data? Companies using data to provide better products/services isn’t a bad thing. I think we all know if Apple was the leader in this space AI wouldn’t be complaining and certainly wouldn’t be calling it “surveillance”.
Perhaps because Apple values privacy and believes their customers do as well? I know I would never knowingly buy a house or rent an apartment with built in microphones that I would never know if I had absolute control. And I certainly wouldn’t buy only to have to spend my own money to remove big brother. Not sure why so many folks are in such a rush to live in “1984”.
What evidence is there that Amazon is anti privacy? Using data to provide better services is not anti-privacy.
None of these big companies are going to win anything in Home Auto.
The Echo is Home Auto Lite Google is Diet Home Auto Homekit is Home Auto bridge
I speak to people almost everyday that are in the midst of new construction and I ask them about what they are doing to prewire. Most have builders adding in a scant few cable and speaker runs.
Proper Home Auto is about infrastructure first. It's about the local network. Voice assistants are simply devices on the periphery and that's where Apple, Google and Amazon are playing. They do no compromise the heart of the system.
These homes must be disposable. Imagine having a house specially-wired with SOTA twenty years ago (10baseT, NTSC-resolution rear-projection built into the walls).... you wouldn't be able to use any of it, today.
In 10 years the only thing these screens and mics will be good for is surveillance. ...assuming they can do more than that, today.
None of these big companies are going to win anything in Home Auto.
The Echo is Home Auto Lite Google is Diet Home Auto Homekit is Home Auto bridge
I speak to people almost everyday that are in the midst of new construction and I ask them about what they are doing to prewire. Most have builders adding in a scant few cable and speaker runs.
Proper Home Auto is about infrastructure first. It's about the local network. Voice assistants are simply devices on the periphery and that's where Apple, Google and Amazon are playing. They do no compromise the heart of the system.
One thing I’ve noticed is that it’s hard to plan for the future. Nice hotels from the 90s all thought they were future proof with cat5/6 and RJ-45 for a future of fast internet, only to find out that today almost nobody even has an Ethernet port on the computer they’re holding.
And shortly before that hotel rooms (and fancy homes) were wired up for extra RJ-11 for dialup internet!
Some luxury homes from the 70s are wired up for PBX landlines, twisted pair speaker wires (maybe in stereo!) and of course central vacuum.
It's cases like yours DED that make me happy to live in the EU. If a seller ships an incorrect product or it is faulty, they are required to pay the shipping in both directions. The lack of consumer rights in some countries is baffling. Still, my experiences with Amazon in the past have always been positive - they've sent me replacement books no-questions-asked when orders haven't turned up. I haven't had any trouble with 3rd-party sellers so far though.
I second this, again possibly because I live in Scotland within the EU that I enjoy such high customer service from them - 2nd to none in my experience.
As for the narrative on this article, it IS possible to, you know, NOT connect the devices to the internet and NOT actually USE them if they are pre-installed in your home. No need for the tin-foil hats.
This article is a glass half-empty perspective that misses some brutal limitations of Apple's current offerings. I believe Amazon is more than a few steps ahead of Apple along the path to providing real-world implementations of usable Ambient Intelligence environments ———-
Ok, Amazon is certainly working on many initiatives and partnerships rapidly, not just selling a HomePod.
But how is that different from Google spending the last ten years trying to invent a valuable set of use cases for Android and really only ending up with one: smartphones. All while Apple was cricisized for its focus on iPhone. And then later iPad. And then Apple TV and Apple Watch, and Home Pod.
And then all of a sudden Apple is the not just the only one making any money across any hardware while google keeps failing to break in, while but also Apple is learning how to monetize mobile Services better than Google (that was Google’s core competency on PC).
Google handles twice the app downloads but makes half the revenue. It doesn’t lead in music or media. Isn’t creating anything. Hasn’t even monetized search on mobile better than it had on PC.
So when people are impressed at how far the hot air blows out of Amazon today, I think about the last ten years of Google and then ten years of Microsoft before that, and IBM before that. And the winning survivor through all that has been perpetually going out of business because it’s “too proprietary and moving too slow with too little unit market share.”
And that makes me think I’m probably right about Amazon Alexa.
I second this, again possibly because I live in Scotland within the EU that I enjoy such high customer service from them - 2nd to none in my experience.
As for the narrative on this article, it IS possible to, you know, NOT connect the devices to the internet and NOT actually USE them if they are pre-installed in your home. No need for the tin-foil hats.
That’s like saying it’s possible to not use Facebook. That doesn’t really impact the reality that Facebook is killing rational thought and a culture of privacy and data security.
I can also refuse to use Facebook and my contacts and shadow profile are still out there and people still post my photos and announce where I am. So no, i can’t really choose not to be on Facebook at all.
Also, I can unplug my Alexa but if apps and devices were to grow dependent on it, it would be hard to sit out any use of it. Just like it’s hard to not have a smartphone today.
But it imagine if the only smartphone one could buy was an android device from China that was as shitty of an experience as the typical 1998 Windows PC, blowing out spam and popping up ads while crashing and deleting your work from virus infections.
We choose the future. Warning of the problems of poorly conceived tech is what the media should be doing.
It's cases like yours DED that make me happy to live in the EU. If a seller ships an incorrect product or it is faulty, they are required to pay the shipping in both directions. The lack of consumer rights in some countries is baffling. Still, my experiences with Amazon in the past have always been positive - they've sent me replacement books no-questions-asked when orders haven't turned up. I haven't had any trouble with 3rd-party sellers so far though.
I second this, again possibly because I live in Scotland within the EU that I enjoy such high customer service from them - 2nd to none in my experience.
As for the narrative on this article, it IS possible to, you know, NOT connect the devices to the internet and NOT actually USE them if they are pre-installed in your home. No need for the tin-foil hats.
How would you know? No way to know how someone wired them or connected them via wifi or satellite. Again, only safe way out would be to fork over the $ to remove them. No thanks. Oh, and no tin foil hat here, just someone who prefers not to bow down to big brother...well, at least as long as I can. Seems a vast majority wants tech companies knowing everything they do.
And how much cheaper are these ad supported homes? :P
Exactly. We make the mistake of buying a Lennar home. It's all about cost with them - we ended up having to replace several of the cheap windows they. used because you could feel the draft 2 feet away and the would get ice dams in the MN winter. Also had to replace the main electrical panel because improper installation let the humid, outside air in causing corrosion of all the breakers. I also suspect Amazon gave them a great deal.
The one good thing about the placement of these microphones is that you could conceivably use the wiring for something else...
The Information reports that Amazon is gaining an edge on Apple with smart home builders so AI uses it as an opportunity to smear Amazon and accuse the company of surveillance. Why am I not surprised. OK AI if Amazon is such a bad actor that people will need to “rip microphones out of their own ceilings” why isn’t Apple doing more to court home builders to make HomeKit and Siri the preferred platform for smart homes? Also why does AI have such a bias against data? Companies using data to provide better products/services isn’t a bad thing. I think we all know if Apple was the leader in this space AI wouldn’t be complaining and certainly wouldn’t be calling it “surveillance”.
Lol Apple is not selling your data like Amazon, Google & Facebook.
No I would not buy a home with Amazon, Google or Facebook Mics built in.
DanielEran said: One thing I’ve noticed is that it’s hard to plan for the future. Nice hotels from the 90s all thought they were future proof with cat5/6 and RJ-45 for a future of fast internet, only to find out that today almost nobody even has an Ethernet port on the computer they’re holding.
I recently stayed at a hotel that had dedicated WiFi in every room. Much faster than having the one router in the ceiling down the hall.
I'm building a new house this year and I'm considering wiring it completely inside and out with Cat6A so I have the option of installing a wired mesh network which is thought to be more secure and faster than a wireless configuration.
A lot of planning needs to go into designing the electrical plan for a new home, especially if you want to accommodate future HomeKit applications such as window shades, etc. You will probably need AC and ethernet outlets in unusual locations.
Unless this were optional and I could have mine built WITHOUT Alexa crap, it would be a deal breaker for me. I will not live in a house with spyware installed by default. And to be honest, I don't care if it's Alexa, HomeKit, Google, or whomever. Just no.
Unless this were optional and I could have mine built WITHOUT Alexa crap, it would be a deal breaker for me. I will not live in a house with spyware installed by default. And to be honest, I don't care if it's Alexa, HomeKit, Google, or whomever. Just no.
I think you have the choice not to use it. You can just unplug it or something. Shouldn't be too difficult to figure out how to disable it.
None of these big companies are going to win anything in Home Auto.
The Echo is Home Auto Lite Google is Diet Home Auto Homekit is Home Auto bridge
I speak to people almost everyday that are in the midst of new construction and I ask them about what they are doing to prewire. Most have builders adding in a scant few cable and speaker runs.
Proper Home Auto is about infrastructure first. It's about the local network. Voice assistants are simply devices on the periphery and that's where Apple, Google and Amazon are playing. They do no compromise the heart of the system.
You know that Google does more than just Assistant right? Speakers, thermostats, cameras, TV/audio dongles, routers, smoke alarms, home alarms, door bells. Besides, they don't need to do everything, as long as they remain open enough that other devices - appliances, blinds, etc can be integrated easily enough.
None of these big companies are going to win anything in Home Auto.
The Echo is Home Auto Lite Google is Diet Home Auto Homekit is Home Auto bridge
I speak to people almost everyday that are in the midst of new construction and I ask them about what they are doing to prewire. Most have builders adding in a scant few cable and speaker runs.
Proper Home Auto is about infrastructure first. It's about the local network. Voice assistants are simply devices on the periphery and that's where Apple, Google and Amazon are playing. They do no compromise the heart of the system.
You know that Google does more than just Assistant right? Speakers, thermostats, cameras, TV/audio dongles, routers, smoke alarms, home alarms, door bells. Besides, they don't need to do everything, as long as they remain open enough that other devices - appliances, blinds, etc can be integrated easily enough.
I trust Google more than I trust Amazon and I trust both far less than Apple. Once my Echo Show is sold it'll be the last Alexa device I have save for my Sonos One which I must bear Alexa until it supports Chromecast.
I'm less bullish on the big companies and more bullish on stuff like DotDot and Thread become "Wave 2" of IoT. It's been tough watching consumer Home Auto stumble. We've gone with the promise of smart homes to know one of the worst privacy invasions in history. We do not have solid protections regarding our privacy so anyone can basically link you to a cloud account and strafe your data for profit. Glad this stuff is cheap when I decide to get rid of most of it. Cloud is nothing but a walled garden monitization ploy.
I second this, again possibly because I live in Scotland within the EU that I enjoy such high customer service from them - 2nd to none in my experience.
As for the narrative on this article, it IS possible to, you know, NOT connect the devices to the internet and NOT actually USE them if they are pre-installed in your home. No need for the tin-foil hats.
That’s like saying it’s possible to not use Facebook. That doesn’t really impact the reality that Facebook is killing rational thought and a culture of privacy and data security.
I can also refuse to use Facebook and my contacts and shadow profile are still out there and people still post my photos and announce where I am. So no, i can’t really choose not to be on Facebook at all.
Also, I can unplug my Alexa but if apps and devices were to grow dependent on it, it would be hard to sit out any use of it. Just like it’s hard to not have a smartphone today.
But it imagine if the only smartphone one could buy was an android device from China that was as shitty of an experience as the typical 1998 Windows PC, blowing out spam and popping up ads while crashing and deleting your work from virus infections.
We choose the future. Warning of the problems of poorly conceived tech is what the media should be doing.
Your print screen said you bought it in March 2007 but didn't post your complaint till last September. Did you really wait that long to return it?
Is Original Equipment Management owned by Amazon? It's kind of hard to tell. If so you probably have a valid complaint with Amazon. If not OEM did not represent their product correctly but your beef is valid but you probably wouldn't get a positive response by attacking Amazon.
Did you eventually get your air filter from an auto parts store or BMW. Feel lucky you didn't waste your money on the "Expert Installation"
How long did they say you have for returns? 10 days? You'll have to buy an Apple Car next.
Amazon's become the most trusted company in America somehow. I think its because they are usually cheaper than anyone else.
The Information reports that Amazon is gaining an edge on Apple with smart home builders so AI uses it as an opportunity to smear Amazon and accuse the company of surveillance. Why am I not surprised. OK AI if Amazon is such a bad actor that people will need to “rip microphones out of their own ceilings” why isn’t Apple doing more to court home builders to make HomeKit and Siri the preferred platform for smart homes? Also why does AI have such a bias against data? Companies using data to provide better products/services isn’t a bad thing. I think we all know if Apple was the leader in this space AI wouldn’t be complaining and certainly wouldn’t be calling it “surveillance”.
Perhaps because Apple values privacy and believes their customers do as well? I know I would never knowingly buy a house or rent an apartment with built in microphones that I would never know if I had absolute control. And I certainly wouldn’t buy only to have to spend my own money to remove big brother. Not sure why so many folks are in such a rush to live in “1984”.
What evidence is there that Amazon is anti privacy? Using data to provide better services is not anti-privacy.
Comments
A better approach is modularity+replaceability. If the required sensors, actuators, human-machine interfaces, etc., are modular and replaceable (ideally following Liscov-like substitution principles) and based an open connectivity standard (like ethernet) then the risk of obsolescence can be mitigated or at least delayed. The built-in cases are the worst situation, however when we're talking about resilient architectures a lot of implementations overemphasize the notion of modularity with inadequate consideration for replaceability. Proprietary (closed) modularity mechanisms like specialized protocols, connectors, busses, chassis, etc., are often little better than "built-in" technology.
Seriously, no one should be this heavily invested in anything from Amazon. It can and will be gone without warning and without a trace.
The Echo is Home Auto Lite
Google is Diet Home Auto
Homekit is Home Auto bridge
I speak to people almost everyday that are in the midst of new construction and I ask them about what they are doing to prewire. Most have builders
adding in a scant few cable and speaker runs.
Proper Home Auto is about infrastructure first. It's about the local network. Voice assistants are simply devices on the periphery and that's where Apple, Google and Amazon are playing. They do no compromise the heart of the system.
In 10 years the only thing these screens and mics will be good for is surveillance. ...assuming they can do more than that, today.
And shortly before that hotel rooms (and fancy homes) were wired up for extra RJ-11 for dialup internet!
Some luxury homes from the 70s are wired up for PBX landlines, twisted pair speaker wires (maybe in stereo!) and of course central vacuum.
As for the narrative on this article, it IS possible to, you know, NOT connect the devices to the internet and NOT actually USE them if they are pre-installed in your home. No need for the tin-foil hats.
Ok, Amazon is certainly working on many initiatives and partnerships rapidly, not just selling a HomePod.
But how is that different from Google spending the last ten years trying to invent a valuable set of use cases for Android and really only ending up with one: smartphones. All while Apple was cricisized for its focus on iPhone. And then later iPad. And then Apple TV and Apple Watch, and Home Pod.
And then all of a sudden Apple is the not just the only one making any money across any hardware while google keeps failing to break in, while but also Apple is learning how to monetize mobile Services better than Google (that was Google’s core competency on PC).
Google handles twice the app downloads but makes half the revenue. It doesn’t lead in music or media. Isn’t creating anything. Hasn’t even monetized search on mobile better than it had on PC.
So when people are impressed at how far the hot air blows out of Amazon today, I think about the last ten years of Google and then ten years of Microsoft before that, and IBM before that. And the winning survivor through all that has been perpetually going out of business because it’s “too proprietary and moving too slow with too little unit market share.”
And that makes me think I’m probably right about Amazon Alexa.
I can also refuse to use Facebook and my contacts and shadow profile are still out there and people still post my photos and announce where I am. So no, i can’t really choose not to be on Facebook at all.
Also, I can unplug my Alexa but if apps and devices were to grow dependent on it, it would be hard to sit out any use of it. Just like it’s hard to not have a smartphone today.
But it imagine if the only smartphone one could buy was an android device from China that was as shitty of an experience as the typical 1998 Windows PC, blowing out spam and popping up ads while crashing and deleting your work from virus infections.
We choose the future. Warning of the problems of poorly conceived tech is what the media should be doing.
We make the mistake of buying a Lennar home. It's all about cost with them - we ended up having to replace several of the cheap windows they. used because you could feel the draft 2 feet away and the would get ice dams in the MN winter. Also had to replace the main electrical panel because improper installation let the humid, outside air in causing corrosion of all the breakers. I also suspect Amazon gave them a great deal.
The one good thing about the placement of these microphones is that you could conceivably use the wiring for something else...
No I would not buy a home with Amazon, Google or Facebook Mics built in.
I'm building a new house this year and I'm considering wiring it completely inside and out with Cat6A so I have the option of installing a wired mesh network which is thought to be more secure and faster than a wireless configuration.
A lot of planning needs to go into designing the electrical plan for a new home, especially if you want to accommodate future HomeKit applications such as window shades, etc. You will probably need AC and ethernet outlets in unusual locations.
I'm less bullish on the big companies and more bullish on stuff like DotDot and Thread become "Wave 2" of IoT. It's been tough watching consumer Home Auto stumble. We've gone with the promise of smart homes to know one of the worst privacy invasions in history. We do not have solid protections regarding our privacy so anyone can basically link you to a cloud account and strafe your data for profit. Glad this stuff is cheap when I decide to get rid of most of it. Cloud is nothing but a walled garden monitization ploy.
Echo Dot
Echo Show
Baldwin Evolved smart lock
Honeywell Lyric Round Wi-Fi Thermostat
Leviton Smart Plug-In
Leviton Z Wave Plug-In Module
Lutron Caseta wireless in-wall dimmers
Lutron Caseta wireless Smart Bridge Pro, Wireless Lamp Module, and Pico Remote with Double Stand.
Ring Video Doorbell
Samsung SmartThings Hub
Sonos One
I am curious to know how many of these smart products are Homekit compatible?
Is Original Equipment Management owned by Amazon? It's kind of hard to tell. If so you probably have a valid complaint with Amazon.
If not OEM did not represent their product correctly but your beef is valid but you probably wouldn't get a positive response by attacking Amazon.
Did you eventually get your air filter from an auto parts store or BMW. Feel lucky you didn't waste your money on the "Expert Installation"
How long did they say you have for returns? 10 days? You'll have to buy an Apple Car next.
Amazon's become the most trusted company in America somehow. I think its because they are usually cheaper than anyone else.