I TOTALLY could imagine the Segway being nice for a security cop or warehouse manager or something like that (amusement park security even? ), but for practical, day-to-day stuff...I just don't know.
Its "effin'" coolness is, to me, outweighed by its effin' price.
And someone brought up a good point: people will steal ANYTHING (piece-of-shit bicycles, briefcases, laptops, sunglasses, etc.). I'd be curious to see how many Segways were snatched/lifted/hi-jacked (Ginger-jacked?) in the first several months of their widespread use.
Yes, if there weren't so many thuggish shitheads in the world...but unfortunately, taking stuff that belongs to others seems to be one of the nation's popular pasttimes...and sole "occupation" for many.
If the device spurs true, legit re-thinking of how we plan cities and the walkways in those cities, okay. I could see, maybe in a decade (maybe less?).
But as it stands RIGHT NOW, with the price, the way our cities are, the mindset of Joe and Mrs. Public, etc., I just don't see it.
The most generous thing that can probably be said is that it's truly ahead of its time. Not in a good way.
Just for those who want to know, the normal models (with out the cargo bags and stuff, the i Series) top out at 12.5 mph, and weigh 83 pounds, twice that of your average $100 Wal-Mart special (bike).
The way I look at it is this:
Q: Can I break the speed limit?
A: That's illegal...not like it's possible on one anyway.
Q: Can I ramp up onto curbs, and ride it down stairs?
A: Not without breaking it and a trip to the hospital. Our warranty doesn't cover stupidity, or as you know it, actual use.
Q: Does it have a nifty little cupholder?
A: That'll be another half a grand.
Q: And how many Wal-Mart specials can I buy for the price of one?
A: Like, 50 or so...
Q: So what is it good for?
A: Looking like an elitist pansy...whoops that came out wrong. Getting somewhere? Slowly...
I'll take the bike. Besides, if it gets stolen, it's much less bank busting to replace.
Now, if they sold these for like $500 or so, I might actually consider one, just to be an elitist pansy.
1. It goes ~13 MPH, faster than most people ride their bikes.
2. ~70 pounds. However it is completely capable of riding through a pothole and over cobblestone and whatever rough surfaces most people tend to bike over.
3. 'Commoners' will more likely take the bus or drive, using much more fuel than the Segway uses. Maybe a car is more convenient when I head down to my best friend's house less than a mile away, but do I feel right about it? No.
4. You answered it yourself. What stops a guy from lifting a $10000 motorcycle and putting it in the bed of a pick-up truck? If you go to the Stanford Shopping Center or many other wide open spaces where people expect to see bicyclists, you'll find heavy duty bike racks already in place.
5. Yes, we tear everything down and start again. No, we accomodate, just like we did for cars and bikes. PT doesn't get you everywhere, especially not in SF. And I can only imagine the freedom or urban planning without the need to put rails here, and overhead electrical lines for the electric buses there.
6. Whatever.
7. Ah yes, people don't bike in cities...Go to San Francisco. I see scooters all the time, motorized or foot powered...everywhere.
Who cares? If you want to buy one and use and be responsible for any damage it causes then why is it such a big problem? Leave fat lazy bastards alone, it's not your problem.
<strong>I imagine you guys would have said the same thing about the first Benz and other automobiles at the turn of the last century. You guys have no idea what the Segway HT is trying to accomplish.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You know, Eugene's comments reminded me of something. The negative comments I hear here about the Segway remind me of the flak Apple was getting over the original iMac...and the iBook...and the iPod...funny what happened to *those* products...
The majority sentiment expressed in this thread is pretty depressing. It sucks because it'll get stolen? It sucks because cars are better? It sucks because people who use it are fat and lazy?
Look, at $5000 a piece, it's not going to displace walking. But at that price, it just might displace driving for a good amount of people. It may not be a significant amount, but it will be significant in terms of our relationship to cars. If you live in a small suburb and are constantly carting around to shops and markets in your neighborhood, you're driving around in a 2-ton vehicle that, in my mind, hardly befits your environment or your transportation needs. We use the same vehicles to travel cross country as we do to shop at the grocery store one mile away. Does that seem right? I suppose I shouldn't ask that question, since our soccer moms are the ones who buy tanks to go shopping.
Cars have done a lot for us, revolutionized transportation, cities, shopping, working, family life, everything. But that doesn't mean we should stay the way we are forever. I'll say this at the risk of being thought some angry hippie, but we are more subservient to cars than maybe we realize. I go to the drug store a block away from me, and half the lot area is devoted to cars - cars that just sit there and do nothing as we do all our shopping inside. Bigger malls have entirely separate parking structures that just take up space for the sleeping beasts. We have streets with six lanes going one way all for the benefit of cars. You ever see a pedestrian balk at the prospect of having to cross these streets?
I love walking, so a Segway will not take the place of walking for me, but if 50 years from now, more cities are designed for the benefit of people (whether they are on foot, bikes, scooters, or Segways), not cars, I'll be a happier person. Or we could just stick with the way it's always been, because it's just worthless to try. ...Does this line of thought seem familiar?
You know, Eugene's comments reminded me of something. The negative comments I hear here about the Segway remind me of the flak Apple was getting over the original iMac...and the iBook...and the iPod...funny what happened to *those* products... </strong><hr></blockquote>
except...the segway is nothing like those products. maybe it revolutionizes travel within a radius of 1 mile, but it is way too limiting to ever be usefull in everyday normal diverse situations.
yes, it might be a cool thing to have, and might be useful to some...but it just doesn't do what i need out of my car--to get places further than a mile away! my drive to college is about 90 miles away, and that's considered "right next door" for texas. everything is spread out. if you don't have a car, you are stuck in one place. hell, even a bike isnt enough to go anywhere significant. if you want to get to your destination in this country (especially in the southern states) then you NEED a car.
the only places this could be usefull are on college campuses and within major cities, and those just aren't practical because:
1) no college student could ever afford one
2) it's a pain in the ass having to cart that thing around once yer in the city once you reach your destination. maybe if you have a locker to stick it in or something in your office, but...
what about if you want to stop in a restaurant to eat?? where u gonna put it? leave it on the street?? pssh...yeah right, good luck keeping it there...
here's a scenario: help me fill out the theoretical details...
a man, let's call him Bob, is going to work. Bob takes the light rail or bus to get into this city from his suburb home of Normalville. once he is downtown, he hops on his trusty segway and rides to his office building two blocks away. once he makes it up to his 43rd floor office, he glides along to his cubicle in the back corner only to discover that there are already a dozen segways parked there. so...being the polite employee that he is, Bob just puts it in his office.
At lunch, Bob rides his trusty segway down 4 blocks to his favorite restaurant Gestapos to get some european cuisine. he hops off his segway and ties to the all-new segway racks (sway racks, for the hip) outside the plaza. this derivation of the bike-racks is a piece of metal that you tie your segways to (don't mind that this never worked on bikes, so why should it be a problem with things much more expensive??). after his delightful lunch of whatever it is they eat in the future he comes back out and finds his new segway completely untouched. it's a good thing that everyone in this city is as good a citizen as Bob is, or something might have happened to it...
fast forward to his return to the bus stop...
Bob leaves his segway parked outside the bus' steps in this "parking space" that he trustingly uses...
questions: how the hell do you figure that the segway will survive all these variables?? how will it not be stolen???
why will it be waiting for him at the bus stop every single damn day? where does it go during the night? he couldn't bring it with him on the bus...could he?? maybe it's a magical segway that has a force field around it keep intruders away...
I think the thing people are missing here is that previous "revolutions" in transportation always involved moving MORE and FASTER, whether that was cargo or people. Railroad, cars (leading to trucks), and airplanes all allowed us to do this. Segway is something that lets ONE person move at the pace of a brisk JOG. Combine that with the price, and thats basically a deal breaker.
For moving around a large building, sure. For practical transport...I just don't see it.
btw, when you compare this product to apple products i find it amusing to note that it will probably never gain more market space than apple currently does...
can anyone say...less than 5 percent??
i have been called an elitist snob for using a macintosh...but at least i get some use out of this. if i ever used a segway, it would be solely for the purpose of being an elitist snob...similarly to if i ever drove a benz...
[QB]How many people here can seriously run better than a 10 minute mile over more than one mile? I think I barely can. I can run a 7 minute mile, but then after that I fade quickly.
VanDeWaals, have you ever been to Southeast Asia or any other rapidly developing part of the world? Cars and buses are basically the slowest form of transportation there because of all the requirements out there. The smaller the vehicle the better, that's why bikes and mopeds rule. Bigger and faster isn't always better, and people are beginning to realize that. Cars like the throwback Beetle and Mini are part of the SUV backlash. The Segway is an extreme step towards the very old 'People Mover' concept, except back then there was nothing small enough that didn't require balance.
alliance is thinking even more and more backward now...First he argues that cities don't accomodate the Segway HT. Now he argues it's too expensive... What's going to happen when the US population grows from 280 million to 350? 400? How congested do you think major cities are going to be. I commuted from my home to Berkeley for Summer sessions a couple of years ago. From San Mateo to Berkeley took probably 5 hours round trip. 5 freaking hours with a bit of help from people filling up the streets taking shorter trips. Driving through San Francisco during rush hour on the freeway or in town is not fun.
The Segway's not going to become popular because it's a remarkable invention. Downsized motorized transportation is going to become a necessity. It already is a necessity in many regions of the world.
I TOTALLY could imagine the Segway being nice for a security cop or warehouse manager or something like that (amusement park security even? ), but for practical, day-to-day stuff...I just don't know.
Its "effin'" coolness is, to me, outweighed by its effin' price.
And someone brought up a good point: people will steal ANYTHING (piece-of-shit bicycles, briefcases, laptops, sunglasses, etc.). I'd be curious to see how many Segways were snatched/lifted/hi-jacked (Ginger-jacked?) in the first several months of their widespread use.
Yes, if there weren't so many thuggish shitheads in the world...but unfortunately, taking stuff that belongs to others seems to be one of the nation's popular pasttimes...and sole "occupation" for many.
If the device spurs true, legit re-thinking of how we plan cities and the walkways in those cities, okay. I could see, maybe in a decade (maybe less?).
But as it stands RIGHT NOW, with the price, the way our cities are, the mindset of Joe and Mrs. Public, etc., I just don't see it.
The most generous thing that can probably be said is that it's truly ahead of its time. Not in a good way.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
It makes sense that right now it's not practical for a lot of people. But to argue that it may get stolen is not saying much. Ever hear about cars getting stolen? Grand Theft Auto. It's a popular video game too.
But come on! I can totally see you going to that upper-middle class taco joint on a cool segway, your unbrushed morning hair waving in the wind. Effin cool indeed!
I haven't been to SF but I'd assume that segways would be accidents waiting to happen there. With their hills I wouldn't think it's safe, the city is probably just airing on the side of caution.
They are cool, but like any new tech is too expensive. Hell, I'm still waiting for the video phones to come down a little more and they've been around for what 10 years or so if not more?
Comments
I TOTALLY could imagine the Segway being nice for a security cop or warehouse manager or something like that (amusement park security even?
Its "effin'" coolness is, to me, outweighed by its effin' price.
And someone brought up a good point: people will steal ANYTHING (piece-of-shit bicycles, briefcases, laptops, sunglasses, etc.). I'd be curious to see how many Segways were snatched/lifted/hi-jacked (Ginger-jacked?) in the first several months of their widespread use.
Yes, if there weren't so many thuggish shitheads in the world...but unfortunately, taking stuff that belongs to others seems to be one of the nation's popular pasttimes...and sole "occupation" for many.
If the device spurs true, legit re-thinking of how we plan cities and the walkways in those cities, okay. I could see, maybe in a decade (maybe less?).
But as it stands RIGHT NOW, with the price, the way our cities are, the mindset of Joe and Mrs. Public, etc., I just don't see it.
The most generous thing that can probably be said is that it's truly ahead of its time. Not in a good way.
The way I look at it is this:
Q: Can I break the speed limit?
A: That's illegal...not like it's possible on one anyway.
Q: Can I ramp up onto curbs, and ride it down stairs?
A: Not without breaking it and a trip to the hospital. Our warranty doesn't cover stupidity, or as you know it, actual use.
Q: Does it have a nifty little cupholder?
A: That'll be another half a grand.
Q: And how many Wal-Mart specials can I buy for the price of one?
A: Like, 50 or so...
Q: So what is it good for?
A: Looking like an elitist pansy...whoops that came out wrong. Getting somewhere? Slowly...
I'll take the bike. Besides, if it gets stolen, it's much less bank busting to replace.
Now, if they sold these for like $500 or so, I might actually consider one, just to be an elitist pansy.
[ 12-25-2002: Message edited by: Spart ]</p>
2. ~70 pounds. However it is completely capable of riding through a pothole and over cobblestone and whatever rough surfaces most people tend to bike over.
3. 'Commoners' will more likely take the bus or drive, using much more fuel than the Segway uses. Maybe a car is more convenient when I head down to my best friend's house less than a mile away, but do I feel right about it? No.
4. You answered it yourself. What stops a guy from lifting a $10000 motorcycle and putting it in the bed of a pick-up truck? If you go to the Stanford Shopping Center or many other wide open spaces where people expect to see bicyclists, you'll find heavy duty bike racks already in place.
5. Yes, we tear everything down and start again.
6. Whatever.
7. Ah yes, people don't bike in cities...Go to San Francisco. I see scooters all the time, motorized or foot powered...everywhere.
I'm not being unrealistic at all.
<strong>1. It goes ~13 MPH, faster than most people ride their bikes.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Bah. I guess I'm not most people.
<strong>I imagine you guys would have said the same thing about the first Benz and other automobiles at the turn of the last century. You guys have no idea what the Segway HT is trying to accomplish.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You know, Eugene's comments reminded me of something. The negative comments I hear here about the Segway remind me of the flak Apple was getting over the original iMac...and the iBook...and the iPod...funny what happened to *those* products...
Look, at $5000 a piece, it's not going to displace walking. But at that price, it just might displace driving for a good amount of people. It may not be a significant amount, but it will be significant in terms of our relationship to cars. If you live in a small suburb and are constantly carting around to shops and markets in your neighborhood, you're driving around in a 2-ton vehicle that, in my mind, hardly befits your environment or your transportation needs. We use the same vehicles to travel cross country as we do to shop at the grocery store one mile away. Does that seem right? I suppose I shouldn't ask that question, since our soccer moms are the ones who buy tanks to go shopping.
Cars have done a lot for us, revolutionized transportation, cities, shopping, working, family life, everything. But that doesn't mean we should stay the way we are forever. I'll say this at the risk of being thought some angry hippie, but we are more subservient to cars than maybe we realize. I go to the drug store a block away from me, and half the lot area is devoted to cars - cars that just sit there and do nothing as we do all our shopping inside. Bigger malls have entirely separate parking structures that just take up space for the sleeping beasts. We have streets with six lanes going one way all for the benefit of cars. You ever see a pedestrian balk at the prospect of having to cross these streets?
I love walking, so a Segway will not take the place of walking for me, but if 50 years from now, more cities are designed for the benefit of people (whether they are on foot, bikes, scooters, or Segways), not cars, I'll be a happier person. Or we could just stick with the way it's always been, because it's just worthless to try. ...Does this line of thought seem familiar?
[ 12-25-2002: Message edited by: frawgz ]</p>
<strong>
You know, Eugene's comments reminded me of something. The negative comments I hear here about the Segway remind me of the flak Apple was getting over the original iMac...and the iBook...and the iPod...funny what happened to *those* products...
except...the segway is nothing like those products. maybe it revolutionizes travel within a radius of 1 mile, but it is way too limiting to ever be usefull in everyday normal diverse situations.
yes, it might be a cool thing to have, and might be useful to some...but it just doesn't do what i need out of my car--to get places further than a mile away! my drive to college is about 90 miles away, and that's considered "right next door" for texas. everything is spread out. if you don't have a car, you are stuck in one place. hell, even a bike isnt enough to go anywhere significant. if you want to get to your destination in this country (especially in the southern states) then you NEED a car.
the only places this could be usefull are on college campuses and within major cities, and those just aren't practical because:
1) no college student could ever afford one
2) it's a pain in the ass having to cart that thing around once yer in the city once you reach your destination. maybe if you have a locker to stick it in or something in your office, but...
what about if you want to stop in a restaurant to eat?? where u gonna put it? leave it on the street?? pssh...yeah right, good luck keeping it there...
here's a scenario: help me fill out the theoretical details...
a man, let's call him Bob, is going to work. Bob takes the light rail or bus to get into this city from his suburb home of Normalville. once he is downtown, he hops on his trusty segway and rides to his office building two blocks away. once he makes it up to his 43rd floor office, he glides along to his cubicle in the back corner only to discover that there are already a dozen segways parked there. so...being the polite employee that he is, Bob just puts it in his office.
At lunch, Bob rides his trusty segway down 4 blocks to his favorite restaurant Gestapos to get some european cuisine. he hops off his segway and ties to the all-new segway racks (sway racks, for the hip) outside the plaza. this derivation of the bike-racks is a piece of metal that you tie your segways to (don't mind that this never worked on bikes, so why should it be a problem with things much more expensive??). after his delightful lunch of whatever it is they eat in the future he comes back out and finds his new segway completely untouched. it's a good thing that everyone in this city is as good a citizen as Bob is, or something might have happened to it...
fast forward to his return to the bus stop...
Bob leaves his segway parked outside the bus' steps in this "parking space" that he trustingly uses...
questions: how the hell do you figure that the segway will survive all these variables?? how will it not be stolen???
why will it be waiting for him at the bus stop every single damn day? where does it go during the night? he couldn't bring it with him on the bus...could he?? maybe it's a magical segway that has a force field around it keep intruders away...
i dont know...
i guess i'm just too much of a realist...
sorry Bob...you're screwed...
I think the thing people are missing here is that previous "revolutions" in transportation always involved moving MORE and FASTER, whether that was cargo or people. Railroad, cars (leading to trucks), and airplanes all allowed us to do this. Segway is something that lets ONE person move at the pace of a brisk JOG. Combine that with the price, and thats basically a deal breaker.
For moving around a large building, sure. For practical transport...I just don't see it.
Call me a Luddite if you will!
I.M. VanDeWaals
can anyone say...less than 5 percent??
i have been called an elitist snob for using a macintosh...but at least i get some use out of this. if i ever used a segway, it would be solely for the purpose of being an elitist snob...similarly to if i ever drove a benz...
wait...
no...
how the hell else do you expect people to get there?!?!?!
15 miles on a fing segway...
hahahahahahha
right...
maybe to the store to buy some milk...but again, the practicality of this toy is too limiting to ever be considered useful.
[QB]How many people here can seriously run better than a 10 minute mile over more than one mile? I think I barely can. I can run a 7 minute mile, but then after that I fade quickly.
<hr></blockquote>
I can do a liitle over 5 minutes for the mile!
<strong>
I can do a liitle over 5 minutes for the mile!</strong><hr></blockquote>
will you carry me to the store?
<strong>
will you carry me to the store?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Offcourse it will cost you...
That could be my new business venture. Running people to the mall.
<strong>
Offcourse it will cost you...
That could be my new business venture. Running people to the mall.
15 miles? 30 round trip.
hmm...how bout 4 thousand? that'l save me some cash...
alliance is thinking even more and more backward now...First he argues that cities don't accomodate the Segway HT. Now he argues it's too expensive... What's going to happen when the US population grows from 280 million to 350? 400? How congested do you think major cities are going to be. I commuted from my home to Berkeley for Summer sessions a couple of years ago. From San Mateo to Berkeley took probably 5 hours round trip. 5 freaking hours with a bit of help from people filling up the streets taking shorter trips. Driving through San Francisco during rush hour on the freeway or in town is not fun.
The Segway's not going to become popular because it's a remarkable invention. Downsized motorized transportation is going to become a necessity. It already is a necessity in many regions of the world.
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
<strong>I'm with Alliance on this.
I TOTALLY could imagine the Segway being nice for a security cop or warehouse manager or something like that (amusement park security even?
Its "effin'" coolness is, to me, outweighed by its effin' price.
And someone brought up a good point: people will steal ANYTHING (piece-of-shit bicycles, briefcases, laptops, sunglasses, etc.). I'd be curious to see how many Segways were snatched/lifted/hi-jacked (Ginger-jacked?) in the first several months of their widespread use.
Yes, if there weren't so many thuggish shitheads in the world...but unfortunately, taking stuff that belongs to others seems to be one of the nation's popular pasttimes...and sole "occupation" for many.
If the device spurs true, legit re-thinking of how we plan cities and the walkways in those cities, okay. I could see, maybe in a decade (maybe less?).
But as it stands RIGHT NOW, with the price, the way our cities are, the mindset of Joe and Mrs. Public, etc., I just don't see it.
The most generous thing that can probably be said is that it's truly ahead of its time. Not in a good way.
It makes sense that right now it's not practical for a lot of people. But to argue that it may get stolen is not saying much. Ever hear about cars getting stolen? Grand Theft Auto. It's a popular video game too.
But come on! I can totally see you going to that upper-middle class taco joint on a cool segway, your unbrushed morning hair waving in the wind. Effin cool indeed!
They are cool, but like any new tech is too expensive. Hell, I'm still waiting for the video phones to come down a little more and they've been around for what 10 years or so if not more?