Disgruntled MacBook Pro users petition Apple to recall defective keyboards

124»

Comments

  • Reply 61 of 79
    seankillseankill Posts: 467member
    macxpress said:

    bb-15 said:
    - When a person buys an expensive Apple product and they don’t purchase AppleCare+, they are gambling that they won’t experience a major out of warranty hardware failure in the 2nd & 3rd year. Sometimes that gamble does not pay off. 
    One might argue that when purchasing a premium-priced computer that is sold with margins unheard of anywhere else in the industry, one might take exception to being told the only assurance of quality service is to pay even more to get the extended warranty (which is also premium-priced).
    I don't think a typical consumer knows what Apple's margins are (nor do you!), nor do they care when they walk out with one. Bottomline, its an expensive product and it is a risk for them not to have "insurance" on them. Honestly, the AppleCare+ for a 15" MacBook Pro isn't a bad deal at all considering how much it costs to replace something. One issue and the extended warranty pays for itself and then some. I don't care if its the Apple of 8-10yrs ago...if you buy a $3,000 laptop you put the extended warranty on it and yes there were Apple laptops that cost that much back then. 
    It does stand to reason, if Apple represents quality and one pays for said quality, you would expect it to last. I bought a Toyota for my wife. Why? Quality first but they stand behind their quality. I’ve heard countless stories of Toyota covering issues outside of warranty. Sure, the users could have bought an extended warranty but then why not buy a Nissan with an extended warranty for the same price? 


    On a side note, never buy a majorly redesigned product from Apple. Wait for generation two. I broke this rule with the mid-2012 MacBook, despite the countless claim of LG panel ghosting. After multiply consultations with Apple personnel, I was assured it was a small issue, one that wouldn’t likely affect me. I bought it. Checked it several times throughout the first year. At 15 months, it surfaced bad (noticed it while running simulations). 368$ on an issue I saw coming. At the same time, I tested 5, somewhere between ordering and fixing mine, models at Bestbuy and reproduced the issue. 5/5 lg panel models I checked (counting mine). That’s pretty piss poor. All aside though, best computer ever. When I saw the 2016, I thought about it but it was clearly a step back. Bought a PC desktop instead for work and play. Still love MacBooks though. Maybe in 2019..

    edited May 2018
  • Reply 62 of 79
    dewmedewme Posts: 2,054member
    This issue is not unique to Apple but actually reflects consumer demand for increasingly thin, lightweight, and stylish products. If consumers would actually purchase highly serviceable products that were also utilitarian, easy to repair, and as aesthetically pleasing as a lawn tractor Apple (and every other computer vendor) would certainly build these things and swim blissfully in the resulting profits. However, just read all the gushing reviews for bezel-free displays and 15 hour battery lives and one pound notebook computers. Where are the questions about maintainability, repairability, or serviceability? Sure, there are some voices in the wilderness from the likes of iFixit and others, but how many people actually factor their purchase decision on technology products based on the product's repairability score? Answer: None.

    To all of you conspiracy theorists who think that Apple is trying to screw you on this, take a walk out to your driveway or garage and take a gander at the front end of your car. At one point in time all vehicles sold in the US had to fit standard sized round headlights with integrated lenses. Sure, things got crazy with the acceptance of rectangular headlights, but even then the replacement cost of a broken headlight-lens combination would set you back less than 10 bucks. The standard headlight+lens assembly was a boon for serviceability and replacement but extremely limited for design and style. Once the automakers were freed from the restraints of standard headlight assemblies the entire design aesthetic for nearly every car made changed dramatically. Unfortunately for consumers the cost of a headlight assembly replacement exploded by at least 10X, and often 50X or more.

    So who is to blame for the explosive increase in cost in headlight assembly replacement? Is it the manufacturers for producing exciting and stylish new designs that draw consumers to the showrooms? Is it the regulators for allowing design variation? Or is it consumers fo directing their purchases toward products that provide the most exciting product designs regardless of the product's serviceability? If you're uptight about headlight assembly replacement costs you should buy a vehicle that conforms to the old headlight assembly standards, like some Jeep models. Would you really want to see your brand new new Tesla or BMW sporting some bigass ugly 1950s-era round headlights because they are easy and cheap to replace? 
     


     
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 63 of 79
    dewmedewme Posts: 2,054member
    seankill said:
    macxpress said:

    bb-15 said:
    - When a person buys an expensive Apple product and they don’t purchase AppleCare+, they are gambling that they won’t experience a major out of warranty hardware failure in the 2nd & 3rd year. Sometimes that gamble does not pay off. 
    One might argue that when purchasing a premium-priced computer that is sold with margins unheard of anywhere else in the industry, one might take exception to being told the only assurance of quality service is to pay even more to get the extended warranty (which is also premium-priced).
    I don't think a typical consumer knows what Apple's margins are (nor do you!), nor do they care when they walk out with one. Bottomline, its an expensive product and it is a risk for them not to have "insurance" on them. Honestly, the AppleCare+ for a 15" MacBook Pro isn't a bad deal at all considering how much it costs to replace something. One issue and the extended warranty pays for itself and then some. I don't care if its the Apple of 8-10yrs ago...if you buy a $3,000 laptop you put the extended warranty on it and yes there were Apple laptops that cost that much back then. 
    It does stand to reason, if Apple represents quality and one pays for said quality, you would expect it to last. I bought a Toyota for my wife. Why? Quality first but they stand behind their quality. I’ve heard countless stories of Toyota covering issues outside of warranty. Sure, the users could have bought an extended warranty but then why not buy a Nissan with an extended warranty for the same price? 


    On a side note, never buy a majorly redesigned product from Apple. Wait for generation two. I broke this rule with the mid-2012 MacBook, despite the countless claim of LG panel ghosting. After multiply consultations with Apple personnel, I was assured it was a small issue, one that wouldn’t likely affect me. I bought it. Checked it several times throughout the first year. At 15 months, it surfaced bad (noticed it while running simulations). 368$ on an issue I saw coming. At the same time, I tested 5, somewhere between ordering and fixing mine, models at Bestbuy and reproduced the issue. 5/5 lg panel models I checked (counting mine). That’s pretty piss poor. All aside though, best computer ever. When I saw the 2016, I thought about it but it was clearly a step back. Bought a PC desktop instead for work and play. Still love MacBooks though. Maybe in 2019..

    You might want to think twice about using Toyota as an example of a quality-first supplier: https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-unintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214


  • Reply 64 of 79
    majorslmajorsl Posts: 95unconfirmed, member
    I have one, and have some very intermittent issues with the spacebar.  It hasn't hit the point where I need to send it in, yet.  My geographic location means the nearest Apple store is 3 hours away (can they even fix this "in house?") or, more likely, it's a mail-in repair for 3-4 days without it.  A buddy of mine's G key failed today for no apparent reason. Something does seem to be not right with these keyboards.

    However, I actually LOVE the feel of this keyboard.
  • Reply 65 of 79
    juanguapojuanguapo Posts: 62member
    I enjoy the keyboard. :) I'm not saying it didn't take some getting used to but it's definitely grown on me.
  • Reply 66 of 79
    AI_liasAI_lias Posts: 292member
    macxpress said:
    Dongles, keyboard, touchbar, MagSafe. A renewed love/hate relationship between Apple and their pro users. Thanks Tim, you’re doing great!
    I have taken my MacBook Pro in 3 times for keyboard issues and looks like the 4th time is not far away. Tim Cook is such a joke. He doesn't care about the end user. Only his $$$$$$$$

     
    Yep...Tim is the designer of the keyboard. Can we fuckin stop with the Tim Cook shit. Its getting old! We can't blame Tim for every single god damn problem at Apple. 
    The buck does stop at Tim's desk. Too bad he is afraid of Jonathan Ive.
    bloggerblogdysamoria
  • Reply 67 of 79
    entropysentropys Posts: 1,698member
    Tim Cook is paid close to the true value of Venezuela to run the show.  The buck stops with him.
    bloggerblogdysamoria
  • Reply 68 of 79
    doggonedoggone Posts: 181member
    Legit issue. What genius decided to integrate the keyboard with the top case? My wife’s kb is almost unusable due to intermittent key presses.
    You are kidding me.  Apple has been doing that for years.  The original retina MBP was designed like that.  
    I know because when I replaced the battery on my 2012 machine, both the top surface, keyboard and mouse pad were replaced.  All for $270.  If I was willing to wait for 6 more months, Apple would have replaced it for free due to supply issues.  
    Even though the machine was 4 years old at that time, Apple also replaced the display for lamination issues for free ($900).  I ended up getting 50% of the machine replaced and now use the machine as my media server.

    The only criticism I would make of Apple's customer support is that they take their time to acknowledge issues.  It could be that they need to accumulate enough defective units to determine that the problem is technical and not from damage by customers. The delamination issue was apparent a few years before and I had discussed it with an Apple Genius at a store but he was not willing to accept it was a manufacturing issue.

    So the new keyboard issue may be a real tech issue.  I for one would take the unit into an Apple store and ask for a repair.  If you have AppleCare, then you are covered for 3 years and as demonstrated above Apple will address issues even after the warranty expires. 

    I don't know of any PC manufacturer who would support laptops for that long.  One of the reasons I buy Apple products is that often they will do repairs or replace for free.  A few years ago, I walked into the store to get a new MBP power supply.  I had damaged the cord and it was no longer charging.  The store rep asked if the machine was under warranty, which is was and promptly got a new power supply for me.  They did not have to do that but went the extra mile.  Saved me $80.  Likewise with iPhones that were acting up and software restores did not resolve the issue.  

  • Reply 69 of 79
    danvmdanvm Posts: 753member
    doggone said:
    Legit issue. What genius decided to integrate the keyboard with the top case? My wife’s kb is almost unusable due to intermittent key presses.
    So the new keyboard issue may be a real tech issue.  I for one would take the unit into an Apple store and ask for a repair.  If you have AppleCare, then you are covered for 3 years and as demonstrated above Apple will address issues even after the warranty expires. 

    I don't know of any PC manufacturer who would support laptops for that long.  One of the reasons I buy Apple products is that often they will do repairs or replace for free.  A few years ago, I walked into the store to get a new MBP power supply.  I had damaged the cord and it was no longer charging.  The store rep asked if the machine was under warranty, which is was and promptly got a new power supply for me.  They did not have to do that but went the extra mile.  Saved me $80.  Likewise with iPhones that were acting up and software restores did not resolve the issue.  
    Lenovo Thinkpad's have extended warranties up to 5 years with onsite services.  
    dysamoria
  • Reply 70 of 79
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,455member
    dewme said:
    This issue is not unique to Apple but actually reflects consumer demand for increasingly thin, lightweight, and stylish products. If consumers would actually purchase highly serviceable products that were also utilitarian, easy to repair, and as aesthetically pleasing as a lawn tractor Apple (and every other computer vendor) would certainly build these things and swim blissfully in the resulting profits. However, just read all the gushing reviews for bezel-free displays and 15 hour battery lives and one pound notebook computers. Where are the questions about maintainability, repairability, or serviceability? Sure, there are some voices in the wilderness from the likes of iFixit and others, but how many people actually factor their purchase decision on technology products based on the product's repairability score? Answer: None.

    To all of you conspiracy theorists who think that Apple is trying to screw you on this, take a walk out to your driveway or garage and take a gander at the front end of your car. At one point in time all vehicles sold in the US had to fit standard sized round headlights with integrated lenses. Sure, things got crazy with the acceptance of rectangular headlights, but even then the replacement cost of a broken headlight-lens combination would set you back less than 10 bucks. The standard headlight+lens assembly was a boon for serviceability and replacement but extremely limited for design and style. Once the automakers were freed from the restraints of standard headlight assemblies the entire design aesthetic for nearly every car made changed dramatically. Unfortunately for consumers the cost of a headlight assembly replacement exploded by at least 10X, and often 50X or more.

    So who is to blame for the explosive increase in cost in headlight assembly replacement? Is it the manufacturers for producing exciting and stylish new designs that draw consumers to the showrooms? Is it the regulators for allowing design variation? Or is it consumers fo directing their purchases toward products that provide the most exciting product designs regardless of the product's serviceability? If you're uptight about headlight assembly replacement costs you should buy a vehicle that conforms to the old headlight assembly standards, like some Jeep models. Would you really want to see your brand new new Tesla or BMW sporting some bigass ugly 1950s-era round headlights because they are easy and cheap to replace? 
     


     
    At one point BMW was known for the quality of its lighting (while using those now old fashioned round headlights).   In fact, they were part of the BMW signature:  the distinctive grill between two big, round headlights.  

    You can have style and maintainability both.  They don't have to be mutually exclusive.
    edited May 2018 dysamoria
  • Reply 71 of 79
    bloggerblogbloggerblog Posts: 1,839member
    macxpress said:
    macxpress said:
    Dongles, keyboard, touchbar, MagSafe. A renewed love/hate relationship between Apple and their pro users. Thanks Tim, you’re doing great!
    I have taken my MacBook Pro in 3 times for keyboard issues and looks like the 4th time is not far away. Tim Cook is such a joke. He doesn't care about the end user. Only his $$$$$$$$

     
    Yep...Tim is the designer of the keyboard. Can we fuckin stop with the Tim Cook shit. Its getting old! We can't blame Tim for every single god damn problem at Apple. 
    Chief Executive Officer, he sets and communicates expectations. He used a valued Apple moniker "Hello Again!" as a cheap shot to induce hype, and all we got was a gimmicky Touch Bar.
    I don't care what he said...he's still not the designer of the keyboard and its getting really tired of every single time there's an issue at Apple everyone is so quick to blame Tim Cook when its not even something he's in charge of. Tim is not in charge of making a keyboard. Thats why he (or the hardware exec) hires engineers and designers for. I find it really hard to believe that if Steve were still CEO everyone would be this hard on Steve Jobs and don't give me this BS that it wouldn't have happened. Plenty of shit like this happened when Steve CEO. This is what people seem to forget or, maybe they're too new to Apple to know what it was like "back in the day" when Steve was CEO of Apple. 
    Apple has a very narrow product line compared to other companies, and they pride themselves for the self restraint. Tim is the head-huncho, Jony is the head designer, they’re both complacent. Every time they screws up we get the Apple apologists, aka AAPL stock pilers, tell us how it’s someone else’s fault. 
    And THAT is getting really tiring. 
    avon b7dysamoria
  • Reply 72 of 79
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 2,138member
    macxpress said:
    Dongles, keyboard, touchbar, MagSafe. A renewed love/hate relationship between Apple and their pro users. Thanks Tim, you’re doing great!
    I have taken my MacBook Pro in 3 times for keyboard issues and looks like the 4th time is not far away. Tim Cook is such a joke. He doesn't care about the end user. Only his $$$$$$$$

     
    Yep...Tim is the designer of the keyboard. Can we fuckin stop with the Tim Cook shit. Its getting old! We can't blame Tim for every single god damn problem at Apple. 
    His leadership position puts him in the blame seat for a lot. Choosing the length of development cycles by way of declaring when new products must ship puts him directly in line for blame. Supposedly, making such critical decisions for a corporation is why CEOs are "worth more" than average workers. At 300 times the pay, they really should take 300 times the responsibility (but they usually don't, seeing all the golden parachutes and lateral moves they make from executive job to executive job).
  • Reply 73 of 79
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 2,138member
    dewme said:
    This issue is not unique to Apple but actually reflects consumer demand for increasingly thin, lightweight, and stylish products. If consumers would actually purchase highly serviceable products that were also utilitarian, easy to repair, and as aesthetically pleasing as a lawn tractor Apple (and every other computer vendor) would certainly build these things and swim blissfully in the resulting profits. However, just read all the gushing reviews for bezel-free displays and 15 hour battery lives and one pound notebook computers. Where are the questions about maintainability, repairability, or serviceability? Sure, there are some voices in the wilderness from the likes of iFixit and others, but how many people actually factor their purchase decision on technology products based on the product's repairability score? Answer: None.

    To all of you conspiracy theorists who think that Apple is trying to screw you on this, take a walk out to your driveway or garage and take a gander at the front end of your car. At one point in time all vehicles sold in the US had to fit standard sized round headlights with integrated lenses. Sure, things got crazy with the acceptance of rectangular headlights, but even then the replacement cost of a broken headlight-lens combination would set you back less than 10 bucks. The standard headlight+lens assembly was a boon for serviceability and replacement but extremely limited for design and style. Once the automakers were freed from the restraints of standard headlight assemblies the entire design aesthetic for nearly every car made changed dramatically. Unfortunately for consumers the cost of a headlight assembly replacement exploded by at least 10X, and often 50X or more.

    So who is to blame for the explosive increase in cost in headlight assembly replacement? Is it the manufacturers for producing exciting and stylish new designs that draw consumers to the showrooms? Is it the regulators for allowing design variation? Or is it consumers fo directing their purchases toward products that provide the most exciting product designs regardless of the product's serviceability? If you're uptight about headlight assembly replacement costs you should buy a vehicle that conforms to the old headlight assembly standards, like some Jeep models. Would you really want to see your brand new new Tesla or BMW sporting some bigass ugly 1950s-era round headlights because they are easy and cheap to replace? 
    Ah yes, the "free market" myth where the poor victimized corporations are only doing what the consumers force them to do... [rolls eyes across the floor]
  • Reply 74 of 79
    xiao-zhixiao-zhi Posts: 76member
    MBP keyboards have required case replacements since 2010 if the repairs were done by Apple, but Independent repair stations have done KB only repairs, which took about 2 hours of work on the scissor switch models

    Im sure it’s also possible to repair the butterfly switch models, but the spare parts will be the problem until enough dead MBP are in the pipeline to harvest parts. 
    My 2017 MBP TB versions has no problems so far.

    I suspect any warranty repairs on 2016 production models will be done with 2017 parts, so the “new” keyboards the petition is demanding already exists.

    Frankly speaking, demanding an all new design and total recall is a bit childish, this is a neusance not a safety issue, and how would a new design made in haste be better?
     
  • Reply 75 of 79
    akajboakajbo Posts: 1member
    Yeah I thought my typing was going then, I found out it is not all in my head. Some keys are requiring a double hit or more pressure or another character. So annoyed...I have an Nice iMac at home and it reminds what a good usability experience can be. APPLE PLEASE send out proactive replacements for keyboards!!!! I have 2016 Mac Book Pro...and the experience with the keyboard has been toilet...
  • Reply 76 of 79
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 462member
    dewme said:
    This issue is not unique to Apple but actually reflects consumer demand for increasingly thin, lightweight, and stylish products. If consumers would actually purchase highly serviceable products that were also utilitarian, easy to repair, and as aesthetically pleasing as a lawn tractor Apple (and every other computer vendor) would certainly build these things and swim blissfully in the resulting profits. However, just read all the gushing reviews for bezel-free displays and 15 hour battery lives and one pound notebook computers. Where are the questions about maintainability, repairability, or serviceability? Sure, there are some voices in the wilderness from the likes of iFixit and others, but how many people actually factor their purchase decision on technology products based on the product's repairability score? Answer: None.

    To all of you conspiracy theorists who think that Apple is trying to screw you on this, take a walk out to your driveway or garage and take a gander at the front end of your car. At one point in time all vehicles sold in the US had to fit standard sized round headlights with integrated lenses. Sure, things got crazy with the acceptance of rectangular headlights, but even then the replacement cost of a broken headlight-lens combination would set you back less than 10 bucks. The standard headlight+lens assembly was a boon for serviceability and replacement but extremely limited for design and style. Once the automakers were freed from the restraints of standard headlight assemblies the entire design aesthetic for nearly every car made changed dramatically. Unfortunately for consumers the cost of a headlight assembly replacement exploded by at least 10X, and often 50X or more.

    So who is to blame for the explosive increase in cost in headlight assembly replacement? Is it the manufacturers for producing exciting and stylish new designs that draw consumers to the showrooms? Is it the regulators for allowing design variation? Or is it consumers fo directing their purchases toward products that provide the most exciting product designs regardless of the product's serviceability? If you're uptight about headlight assembly replacement costs you should buy a vehicle that conforms to the old headlight assembly standards, like some Jeep models. Would you really want to see your brand new new Tesla or BMW sporting some bigass ugly 1950s-era round headlights because they are easy and cheap to replace? 
     


     
    At one point BMW was known for the quality of its lighting (while using those now old fashioned round headlights).   In fact, they were part of the BMW signature:  the distinctive grill between two big, round headlights.  

    You can have style and maintainability both.  They don't have to be mutually exclusive.
    Sure, but a lot of current cars have aerodynamic headlight fixtures with LED lights that will last the life of a car that can easily go for 300,000 miles. They don’t need to be serviceable, and if they were, the result would probably be inferior. Design isn’t just about style and fashion.

    That 300,000-mile engine is also not something a shade-tree mechanic should tinker with. Is that a bad thing? I don’t think so, because it’s more powerful, uses less fuel, pollutes less, and lasts three times as long. That’s ultimately a benefit to the consumer, not just the manufacturer or dealer mechanic. 
  • Reply 77 of 79
    seankillseankill Posts: 467member
    AppleZulu said:
    dewme said:
    This issue is not unique to Apple but actually reflects consumer demand for increasingly thin, lightweight, and stylish products. If consumers would actually purchase highly serviceable products that were also utilitarian, easy to repair, and as aesthetically pleasing as a lawn tractor Apple (and every other computer vendor) would certainly build these things and swim blissfully in the resulting profits. However, just read all the gushing reviews for bezel-free displays and 15 hour battery lives and one pound notebook computers. Where are the questions about maintainability, repairability, or serviceability? Sure, there are some voices in the wilderness from the likes of iFixit and others, but how many people actually factor their purchase decision on technology products based on the product's repairability score? Answer: None.

    To all of you conspiracy theorists who think that Apple is trying to screw you on this, take a walk out to your driveway or garage and take a gander at the front end of your car. At one point in time all vehicles sold in the US had to fit standard sized round headlights with integrated lenses. Sure, things got crazy with the acceptance of rectangular headlights, but even then the replacement cost of a broken headlight-lens combination would set you back less than 10 bucks. The standard headlight+lens assembly was a boon for serviceability and replacement but extremely limited for design and style. Once the automakers were freed from the restraints of standard headlight assemblies the entire design aesthetic for nearly every car made changed dramatically. Unfortunately for consumers the cost of a headlight assembly replacement exploded by at least 10X, and often 50X or more.

    So who is to blame for the explosive increase in cost in headlight assembly replacement? Is it the manufacturers for producing exciting and stylish new designs that draw consumers to the showrooms? Is it the regulators for allowing design variation? Or is it consumers fo directing their purchases toward products that provide the most exciting product designs regardless of the product's serviceability? If you're uptight about headlight assembly replacement costs you should buy a vehicle that conforms to the old headlight assembly standards, like some Jeep models. Would you really want to see your brand new new Tesla or BMW sporting some bigass ugly 1950s-era round headlights because they are easy and cheap to replace? 
     


     
    At one point BMW was known for the quality of its lighting (while using those now old fashioned round headlights).   In fact, they were part of the BMW signature:  the distinctive grill between two big, round headlights.  

    You can have style and maintainability both.  They don't have to be mutually exclusive.
    Sure, but a lot of current cars have aerodynamic headlight fixtures with LED lights that will last the life of a car that can easily go for 300,000 miles. They don’t need to be serviceable, and if they were, the result would probably be inferior. Design isn’t just about style and fashion.

    That 300,000-mile engine is also not something a shade-tree mechanic should tinker with. Is that a bad thing? I don’t think so, because it’s more powerful, uses less fuel, pollutes less, and lasts three times as long. That’s ultimately a benefit to the consumer, not just the manufacturer or dealer mechanic. 
    Just wondering, what engine doesn't last 300K miles? 
  • Reply 78 of 79
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 462member
    seankill said:
    AppleZulu said:
    dewme said:
    This issue is not unique to Apple but actually reflects consumer demand for increasingly thin, lightweight, and stylish products. If consumers would actually purchase highly serviceable products that were also utilitarian, easy to repair, and as aesthetically pleasing as a lawn tractor Apple (and every other computer vendor) would certainly build these things and swim blissfully in the resulting profits. However, just read all the gushing reviews for bezel-free displays and 15 hour battery lives and one pound notebook computers. Where are the questions about maintainability, repairability, or serviceability? Sure, there are some voices in the wilderness from the likes of iFixit and others, but how many people actually factor their purchase decision on technology products based on the product's repairability score? Answer: None.

    To all of you conspiracy theorists who think that Apple is trying to screw you on this, take a walk out to your driveway or garage and take a gander at the front end of your car. At one point in time all vehicles sold in the US had to fit standard sized round headlights with integrated lenses. Sure, things got crazy with the acceptance of rectangular headlights, but even then the replacement cost of a broken headlight-lens combination would set you back less than 10 bucks. The standard headlight+lens assembly was a boon for serviceability and replacement but extremely limited for design and style. Once the automakers were freed from the restraints of standard headlight assemblies the entire design aesthetic for nearly every car made changed dramatically. Unfortunately for consumers the cost of a headlight assembly replacement exploded by at least 10X, and often 50X or more.

    So who is to blame for the explosive increase in cost in headlight assembly replacement? Is it the manufacturers for producing exciting and stylish new designs that draw consumers to the showrooms? Is it the regulators for allowing design variation? Or is it consumers fo directing their purchases toward products that provide the most exciting product designs regardless of the product's serviceability? If you're uptight about headlight assembly replacement costs you should buy a vehicle that conforms to the old headlight assembly standards, like some Jeep models. Would you really want to see your brand new new Tesla or BMW sporting some bigass ugly 1950s-era round headlights because they are easy and cheap to replace? 
     


     
    At one point BMW was known for the quality of its lighting (while using those now old fashioned round headlights).   In fact, they were part of the BMW signature:  the distinctive grill between two big, round headlights.  

    You can have style and maintainability both.  They don't have to be mutually exclusive.
    Sure, but a lot of current cars have aerodynamic headlight fixtures with LED lights that will last the life of a car that can easily go for 300,000 miles. They don’t need to be serviceable, and if they were, the result would probably be inferior. Design isn’t just about style and fashion.

    That 300,000-mile engine is also not something a shade-tree mechanic should tinker with. Is that a bad thing? I don’t think so, because it’s more powerful, uses less fuel, pollutes less, and lasts three times as long. That’s ultimately a benefit to the consumer, not just the manufacturer or dealer mechanic. 
    Just wondering, what engine doesn't last 300K miles? 
    Probably most engines made back when headlights were standard, plain, round, and required the bulbs to be changed frequently. 
  • Reply 79 of 79
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,444member
    Anecdotal, but I haven't had any problems with my late-2016 MBP keyboard.   The only thing that is annoying is that if I plug in a USB cable with a dongle or adapter, it doesn't make the connection.  I have to unplug at the dongle/adapter and then plug in again and then everything works.   

    I do have one problem and that's with AirDrop.  My phone sees my Mac, but my Mac doesn't see my phone (or other computers).  
Sign In or Register to comment.