iPhone X was world's best-selling smartphone model in first quarter

13

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 77
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,962member

    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    netmage said:
    avon b7 said:

    Well, if Apple is the second largest smartphone handset manufacturer annually (far behind Samsung and very slightly ahead of Huawei), and only made one phone, it would have the top selling model. It doesn't have just one model but it does have very few. Both Samsung and Huawei have different strategies to Apple and have far more models.

    Clearly they are unlikely to have a top seller (but it isn't impossible) with so many models available.

    Huawei has far more marketshare than Apple in China but has no single model in the top 5 (or top 10 IIRC).

    Apple has three current high end models for sale, how many high end models do Huawei and Samsung have?

    The key is to realize the many economy model phones that other companies sell are not in Apple's market and aren't competition for iPhone, so they don't split the share that matters and at which Apple thoroughly dominates both in profits and market share. 
    The key in tems of unit sales is how many you ship in a full year. That's where the big picture is. On top of that, if you have just ONE release cycle per year, sales will peak around that cycle. Huawei has one flagship per quarter.

    With Apple's new product spread, it has competitors in every tier, right up into the premium and even ultra premium bands.

    It's just one of the reasons its sales have been largely flat for the last few years.
    " That's where the big picture is"

    Dude, you need an intervention.
    Hopefully this guy isn’t in charge of anyone’s money. Fairly certain he isn’t. 
    One of his stated skills is preparing people for presentations, based on his past comments.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 77
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,716member
    Pundits: The X is still a failure. Only 5% market share. I expected 50 MM sold and 20% share. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 77
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,219member
    avon b7 said:
    netmage said:
    avon b7 said:

    Well, if Apple is the second largest smartphone handset manufacturer annually (far behind Samsung and very slightly ahead of Huawei), and only made one phone, it would have the top selling model. It doesn't have just one model but it does have very few. Both Samsung and Huawei have different strategies to Apple and have far more models.

    Clearly they are unlikely to have a top seller (but it isn't impossible) with so many models available.

    Huawei has far more marketshare than Apple in China but has no single model in the top 5 (or top 10 IIRC).

    Apple has three current high end models for sale, how many high end models do Huawei and Samsung have?

    The key is to realize the many economy model phones that other companies sell are not in Apple's market and aren't competition for iPhone, so they don't split the share that matters and at which Apple thoroughly dominates both in profits and market share. 
    The key in tems of unit sales is how many you ship in a full year. That's where the big picture is.
    Unit sales is not the big picture, profit is. Profit is the air corporations breathe. Repeat: profit is the air corporations breathe. 

    Youre worshiping at the Church of Marketshare because you’re loyal to a cheap chinese knockoff brand, and sales is all one can cheerlead... They copy their designs and don’t rule profit. What else is there to celebrate?
    Church of marketshare doesn't exist.

    No one said corporations don't breathe profit.

    What will you say if the Xiaomi IPO is a success? They hope to turn the company into a 100 billion dollar company with a declaration to shareholders that net hardware margins will be capped at 5%.

    If revenues were so important (above any other factor) nobody would be able to get a new iPhone for under 400 euros. Its mere presence takes potential sales away from higher priced phones in its own line and remember, 'upsell' is in Apple's DNA.

    No. Apple wants marketshare. That's why it wants Android switchers. Not only for revenues but to take users away from Android. Yes marketshare is very much a goal for Apple.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 44 of 77
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,062member
    airnerd said:
    Anyone got a score card of the doom and gloom analysts up until last week?  

    Someone better put them on suicide watch....
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 77
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,716member
    Wall Street and market share percentage. What makes market share percentage such an important metric to everyone? There are plenty of companies that have failed over the years despite having very high market share percentage. One would think revenue and profits are most important for any company. At least that's how it works in basic accounting. Apple is trying to sell products they believe a certain number of customers will buy. I'm sure Apple makes mistakes and all products can't sell in high volume. I just don't understand why so many people are happy if an Apple product doesn't sell in super-high volume. Does that immediately mean that said product is a failure?

    No outsider can be sure if Apple is meeting internal goals for product sales. If Apple meets those internal goals it could actually be considered a successful product. Analyst and investor goals really shouldn't matter all that much. I would think any company that honestly meets or exceeds its own guidance is doing quite well. Not being able to have double-digit revenue growth shouldn't mean a company is failing or doomed. Most companies don't have double-digit growth and they can still be successful.

    How many companies would be able to sell a $1000 smartphone and move that many units? I think Apple accomplished quite an unusual feat despite all the criticism.  Selling $1000 iPhones is a far more difficult than selling $200 Android smartphones but critics don't seem to understand that much.
    Market share is only good for commodities, where things cost similar and thus similar margins for the competitors. 

    WS hasn't realized iPhones aren't commodities. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 46 of 77
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,962member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    netmage said:
    avon b7 said:

    Well, if Apple is the second largest smartphone handset manufacturer annually (far behind Samsung and very slightly ahead of Huawei), and only made one phone, it would have the top selling model. It doesn't have just one model but it does have very few. Both Samsung and Huawei have different strategies to Apple and have far more models.

    Clearly they are unlikely to have a top seller (but it isn't impossible) with so many models available.

    Huawei has far more marketshare than Apple in China but has no single model in the top 5 (or top 10 IIRC).

    Apple has three current high end models for sale, how many high end models do Huawei and Samsung have?

    The key is to realize the many economy model phones that other companies sell are not in Apple's market and aren't competition for iPhone, so they don't split the share that matters and at which Apple thoroughly dominates both in profits and market share. 
    The key in tems of unit sales is how many you ship in a full year. That's where the big picture is.
    Unit sales is not the big picture, profit is. Profit is the air corporations breathe. Repeat: profit is the air corporations breathe. 

    Youre worshiping at the Church of Marketshare because you’re loyal to a cheap chinese knockoff brand, and sales is all one can cheerlead... They copy their designs and don’t rule profit. What else is there to celebrate?
    Church of marketshare doesn't exist.

    No one said corporations don't breathe profit.

    What will you say if the Xiaomi IPO is a success? They hope to turn the company into a 100 billion dollar company with a declaration to shareholders that net hardware margins will be capped at 5%.

    If revenues were so important (above any other factor) nobody would be able to get a new iPhone for under 400 euros. Its mere presence takes potential sales away from higher priced phones in its own line and remember, 'upsell' is in Apple's DNA.

    No. Apple wants marketshare. That's why it wants Android switchers. Not only for revenues but to take users away from Android. Yes marketshare is very much a goal for Apple.
    As I stated before, was Xiaomi even making 5% before their declaration?

    Likely not, so it appears to be a con.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 77
    zonezone Posts: 53member
    Liers, cheats, criminals, con artist, dishonest losers who try and are making money based on their daily negativity. While Apple will always come out ahead eventually this negativity needs to be addressed. Tim needs to do the best he can within the laws to put everyone mind at ease that the company not going out of business. Apple performance should return a record high and the stock is really worth 300 a share. NO OTHER company puts up these numbers. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 77
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    netmage said:
    avon b7 said:

    Well, if Apple is the second largest smartphone handset manufacturer annually (far behind Samsung and very slightly ahead of Huawei), and only made one phone, it would have the top selling model. It doesn't have just one model but it does have very few. Both Samsung and Huawei have different strategies to Apple and have far more models.

    Clearly they are unlikely to have a top seller (but it isn't impossible) with so many models available.

    Huawei has far more marketshare than Apple in China but has no single model in the top 5 (or top 10 IIRC).

    Apple has three current high end models for sale, how many high end models do Huawei and Samsung have?

    The key is to realize the many economy model phones that other companies sell are not in Apple's market and aren't competition for iPhone, so they don't split the share that matters and at which Apple thoroughly dominates both in profits and market share. 
    The key in tems of unit sales is how many you ship in a full year. That's where the big picture is.
    Unit sales is not the big picture, profit is. Profit is the air corporations breathe. Repeat: profit is the air corporations breathe. 

    Youre worshiping at the Church of Marketshare because you’re loyal to a cheap chinese knockoff brand, and sales is all one can cheerlead... They copy their designs and don’t rule profit. What else is there to celebrate?
    Church of marketshare doesn't exist.

    No one said corporations don't breathe profit.

    What will you say if the Xiaomi IPO is a success? They hope to turn the company into a 100 billion dollar company with a declaration to shareholders that net hardware margins will be capped at 5%.

    If revenues were so important (above any other factor) nobody would be able to get a new iPhone for under 400 euros. Its mere presence takes potential sales away from higher priced phones in its own line and remember, 'upsell' is in Apple's DNA.

    No. Apple wants marketshare. That's why it wants Android switchers. Not only for revenues but to take users away from Android. Yes marketshare is very much a goal for Apple.
    As I stated before, was Xiaomi even making 5% before their declaration?

    Likely not, so it appears to be a con.
    Having followed Xiaomi phones prices in the last 4 years in India, I would say that they most likely did NOT make any profit until 2015. I would even say that they made losses deliberately in the initial 2 years. But they have slowly increased their prices in the last 2 years. And they have built a loyal fan base in India over the last 4 years, that they have overtaken Samsung to be the number one for market share in India. And the recent article from DED also confirmed that they are making profit in India. Oppo and Vivo have reported losses in India overall. Xioami sells mostly low-priced phones compared to the likes of Oppo/Vivo, who sell phones at a premium (about 100% higher price for similar phones compared to Xiaomi). So Xiaomi remaining profitable is a huge achievement. Xiaomi is going to continue to make profits going forward, may be around that 5% overall.
  • Reply 49 of 77
    chasmchasm Posts: 1,673member
    deminsd said:
    What a biased article.  4.6% market share is worth celebrating?
    Yes. This isnt about platform, it’s about brands. Because there are three kajillion Android phone models, no model stands out. With Apple, it only sells six models as current, and four of those six are the world’s most popular models, especially impressive when you consider that they are the minority platform. Indeed, the main competition cannot manage to sell as many of their flagship phones has Apple does of its previous-year model.

    When you add to that fact that Apple makes 86% of all smartphone profits, it’s even more impressive. You may not understand it, but branding is important. Ninety percent of the non-Apples sold are disposable garbage, so what this is really saying is that Apple equals and in some ways surpasses the whole of Android when we’re talking “serious” smartphones.
    edited May 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 77
    KuyangkohKuyangkoh Posts: 361member
    deminsd said:
    What a biased article.  4.6% market share is worth celebrating?  16M out of 345M sold (by far the majority is Android) is good? 

    The way I see the numbers, ALL of Apple iPhones sales made up only 12.2% of total phones sold.  Too bad the data doesn't show the breakdown of the other 84.6%.  How much of that is Samsung?  

    I like my iPhone but I'd never buy a X.  
    Troll alert, troll alert 🚨 
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 77
    KuyangkohKuyangkoh Posts: 361member
    sdw2001 said:
    airnerd said:
    Anyone got a score card of the doom and gloom analysts up until last week?  

    Someone better put them on suicide watch....
    Oh NO, they are now talking about next quarter failure....cause they failed this quarter....omg
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 77
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,962member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    netmage said:
    avon b7 said:

    Well, if Apple is the second largest smartphone handset manufacturer annually (far behind Samsung and very slightly ahead of Huawei), and only made one phone, it would have the top selling model. It doesn't have just one model but it does have very few. Both Samsung and Huawei have different strategies to Apple and have far more models.

    Clearly they are unlikely to have a top seller (but it isn't impossible) with so many models available.

    Huawei has far more marketshare than Apple in China but has no single model in the top 5 (or top 10 IIRC).

    Apple has three current high end models for sale, how many high end models do Huawei and Samsung have?

    The key is to realize the many economy model phones that other companies sell are not in Apple's market and aren't competition for iPhone, so they don't split the share that matters and at which Apple thoroughly dominates both in profits and market share. 
    The key in tems of unit sales is how many you ship in a full year. That's where the big picture is.
    Unit sales is not the big picture, profit is. Profit is the air corporations breathe. Repeat: profit is the air corporations breathe. 

    Youre worshiping at the Church of Marketshare because you’re loyal to a cheap chinese knockoff brand, and sales is all one can cheerlead... They copy their designs and don’t rule profit. What else is there to celebrate?
    Church of marketshare doesn't exist.

    No one said corporations don't breathe profit.

    What will you say if the Xiaomi IPO is a success? They hope to turn the company into a 100 billion dollar company with a declaration to shareholders that net hardware margins will be capped at 5%.

    If revenues were so important (above any other factor) nobody would be able to get a new iPhone for under 400 euros. Its mere presence takes potential sales away from higher priced phones in its own line and remember, 'upsell' is in Apple's DNA.

    No. Apple wants marketshare. That's why it wants Android switchers. Not only for revenues but to take users away from Android. Yes marketshare is very much a goal for Apple.
    As I stated before, was Xiaomi even making 5% before their declaration?

    Likely not, so it appears to be a con.
    Having followed Xiaomi phones prices in the last 4 years in India, I would say that they most likely did NOT make any profit until 2015. I would even say that they made losses deliberately in the initial 2 years. But they have slowly increased their prices in the last 2 years. And they have built a loyal fan base in India over the last 4 years, that they have overtaken Samsung to be the number one for market share in India. And the recent article from DED also confirmed that they are making profit in India. Oppo and Vivo have reported losses in India overall. Xioami sells mostly low-priced phones compared to the likes of Oppo/Vivo, who sell phones at a premium (about 100% higher price for similar phones compared to Xiaomi). So Xiaomi remaining profitable is a huge achievement. Xiaomi is going to continue to make profits going forward, may be around that 5% overall.
    Fair enough.

    What's to stop other Chinese OEM's from undercutting them in the future and stealing marketshare from Xiaomi? It's pretty easy to see where I'm coming from on this. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 53 of 77
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,219member

    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    deminsd said:
    What a biased article.  4.6% market share is worth celebrating?  16M out of 345M sold (by far the majority is Android) is good? 

    The way I see the numbers, ALL of Apple iPhones sales made up only 12.2% of total phones sold.  Too bad the data doesn't show the breakdown of the other 84.6%.  How much of that is Samsung?  

    I like my iPhone but I'd never buy a X.  
    Well, if Apple is the second largest smartphone handset manufacturer annually (far behind Samsung and very slightly ahead of Huawei), and only made one phone, it would have the top selling model. It doesn't have just one model but it does have very few. Both Samsung and Huawei have different strategies to Apple and have far more models.

    Clearly they are unlikely to have a top seller (but it isn't impossible) with so many models available.

    Huawei has far more marketshare than Apple in China but has no single model in the top 5 (or top 10 IIRC).

    So, while this research estimate may be more or less correct, your point is no less correct.

    The key is too see through the information that is presented and pick up on the other pieces that were not presented move the goalposts until we’re winning.  

    Fixed it for ya. 
    You know what they say. 'If it ain't broke...'

    You are trying to 'fix' something that isn't broken. LOL.
    Nope. I’m just shining a light on you same old tactic here — diminish the gains of Apple by shifting the topic to something else. In this case market share, when the topic was top-selling models. It’s the same old nonsense from you in your quest to promote a chinese knockoff brand. FUD dispensary of the first order. 
    Nope. I don't diminish anything. I simply pull things into a sensible area and point out things that were not told (or deliberately swept under the carpet).

    Some people 'want to believe' and are happy being fed information that has been spun so much, mere mortals would collapse from dizziness.  Others incessantly fire off the same baseless nonsense over and over again and when pushed to at least support their claims, vanish from the conversation. Others (the majority) have far more balanced stances. My guess is that the vast majority of readers want information and to make up their own minds throughout a discussion and can see very clearly when someone doesn't have the answers, supporting links or just vanishes from a discussion completely.

    There are also people who do not post their opinions simply because they are worried about being labelled 'trolls', 'whiners' or whatever. Others really don't give a hoot what others think. That's where I am. Apple user (but not exclusively! - something a few simply can't grasp) but not Apple worshipper and for whom Apple can do no wrong (or when it does, it's better not to talk about it).

    Yes, I touched on marketshare but entirely within the context of my reply on 'top selling models':

    "Huawei has far more marketshare than Apple in China but has no single model in the top 5 (or top 10 IIRC)."

    Try putting my comment into context. I wasn't commenting on the article but a comment in the discussion. If you were paying attention, you would haveh seen that I actually gave validity to the article but also pointed out something else in line with poster's comment.
    edited May 2018
  • Reply 54 of 77
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,194member
    avon b7 said:
    netmage said:
    avon b7 said:

    Well, if Apple is the second largest smartphone handset manufacturer annually (far behind Samsung and very slightly ahead of Huawei), and only made one phone, it would have the top selling model. It doesn't have just one model but it does have very few. Both Samsung and Huawei have different strategies to Apple and have far more models.

    Clearly they are unlikely to have a top seller (but it isn't impossible) with so many models available.

    Huawei has far more marketshare than Apple in China but has no single model in the top 5 (or top 10 IIRC).

    Apple has three current high end models for sale, how many high end models do Huawei and Samsung have?

    The key is to realize the many economy model phones that other companies sell are not in Apple's market and aren't competition for iPhone, so they don't split the share that matters and at which Apple thoroughly dominates both in profits and market share. 
    The key in tems of unit sales is how many you ship in a full year. That's where the big picture is.
    Unit sales is not the big picture, profit is. Profit is the air corporations breathe. Repeat: profit is the air corporations breathe. 

    Youre worshiping at the Church of Marketshare because you’re loyal to a cheap chinese knockoff brand, and sales is all one can cheerlead... They copy their designs and don’t rule profit. What else is there to celebrate?
    I’m curious about this. I don’t remember in the early to mid 2000s Apple fans being obsessed with how much profit the company was making. And profit being the measure of whether the company was great or not. I own some Apple shares so yes I want to see the company do well financially but as a user of their products I care about them making great products that people want to buy and that make a difference in the world. I don’t really care if they’re generating the most profits. And when Apple does increase share in markets of course they highlight it and celebrate it. This idea that market share can only come from selling cheap garbage is nonsense.
  • Reply 55 of 77
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,594member
    avon b7 said:

    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    deminsd said:
    What a biased article.  4.6% market share is worth celebrating?  16M out of 345M sold (by far the majority is Android) is good? 

    The way I see the numbers, ALL of Apple iPhones sales made up only 12.2% of total phones sold.  Too bad the data doesn't show the breakdown of the other 84.6%.  How much of that is Samsung?  

    I like my iPhone but I'd never buy a X.  
    Well, if Apple is the second largest smartphone handset manufacturer annually (far behind Samsung and very slightly ahead of Huawei), and only made one phone, it would have the top selling model. It doesn't have just one model but it does have very few. Both Samsung and Huawei have different strategies to Apple and have far more models.

    Clearly they are unlikely to have a top seller (but it isn't impossible) with so many models available.

    Huawei has far more marketshare than Apple in China but has no single model in the top 5 (or top 10 IIRC).

    So, while this research estimate may be more or less correct, your point is no less correct.

    The key is too see through the information that is presented and pick up on the other pieces that were not presented move the goalposts until we’re winning.  

    Fixed it for ya. 
    You know what they say. 'If it ain't broke...'

    You are trying to 'fix' something that isn't broken. LOL.
    Nope. I’m just shining a light on you same old tactic here — diminish the gains of Apple by shifting the topic to something else. In this case market share, when the topic was top-selling models. It’s the same old nonsense from you in your quest to promote a chinese knockoff brand. FUD dispensary of the first order. 
    Nope. I don't diminish anything. I simply pull things into a sensible area and point out things that were not told (or deliberately swept under the carpet).

    Some people 'want to believe' and are happy being fed information that has been spun so much, mere mortals would collapse from dizziness.  Others incessantly fire off the same baseless nonsense over and over again and when pushed to at least support their claims, vanish from the conversation. Others (the majority) have far more balanced stances. My guess is that the vast majority of readers want information and to make up their own minds throughout a discussion and can see very clearly when someone doesn't have the answers, supporting links or just vanishes from a discussion completely.

    There are also people who do not post their opinions simply because they are worried about being labelled 'trolls', 'whiners' or whatever. Others really don't give a hoot what others think. That's where I am. Apple user (but not exclusively! - something a few simply can't grasp) but not Apple worshipper and for whom Apple can do no wrong (or when it does, it's better not to talk about it).

    Yes, I touched on marketshare but entirely within the context of my reply on 'top selling models':

    "Huawei has far more marketshare than Apple in China but has no single model in the top 5 (or top 10 IIRC)."

    Try putting my comment into context. I wasn't commenting on the article but a comment in the discussion. If you were paying attention, you would haveh seen that I actually gave validity to the article but also pointed out something else in line with poster's comment.
    Like you, the poster you replied to was shifting from the topic in the article -- top-selling models -- and instead saying "But but but market share!" That's moving the goal posts. That there are more android knockoff manufacturers whose total unit sales combined are higher than Apple's is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. You just keep moving back to it because that's the only way you can diminish Apple and prop up the chinese knockoffs you champion.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 56 of 77
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,962member
    avon b7 said:

    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    deminsd said:
    What a biased article.  4.6% market share is worth celebrating?  16M out of 345M sold (by far the majority is Android) is good? 

    The way I see the numbers, ALL of Apple iPhones sales made up only 12.2% of total phones sold.  Too bad the data doesn't show the breakdown of the other 84.6%.  How much of that is Samsung?  

    I like my iPhone but I'd never buy a X.  
    Well, if Apple is the second largest smartphone handset manufacturer annually (far behind Samsung and very slightly ahead of Huawei), and only made one phone, it would have the top selling model. It doesn't have just one model but it does have very few. Both Samsung and Huawei have different strategies to Apple and have far more models.

    Clearly they are unlikely to have a top seller (but it isn't impossible) with so many models available.

    Huawei has far more marketshare than Apple in China but has no single model in the top 5 (or top 10 IIRC).

    So, while this research estimate may be more or less correct, your point is no less correct.

    The key is too see through the information that is presented and pick up on the other pieces that were not presented move the goalposts until we’re winning.  

    Fixed it for ya. 
    You know what they say. 'If it ain't broke...'

    You are trying to 'fix' something that isn't broken. LOL.
    Nope. I’m just shining a light on you same old tactic here — diminish the gains of Apple by shifting the topic to something else. In this case market share, when the topic was top-selling models. It’s the same old nonsense from you in your quest to promote a chinese knockoff brand. FUD dispensary of the first order. 
    Nope. I don't diminish anything. I simply pull things into a sensible area and point out things that were not told (or deliberately swept under the carpet).

    Some people 'want to believe' and are happy being fed information that has been spun so much, mere mortals would collapse from dizziness.  Others incessantly fire off the same baseless nonsense over and over again and when pushed to at least support their claims, vanish from the conversation. Others (the majority) have far more balanced stances. My guess is that the vast majority of readers want information and to make up their own minds throughout a discussion and can see very clearly when someone doesn't have the answers, supporting links or just vanishes from a discussion completely.

    There are also people who do not post their opinions simply because they are worried about being labelled 'trolls', 'whiners' or whatever. Others really don't give a hoot what others think. That's where I am. Apple user (but not exclusively! - something a few simply can't grasp) but not Apple worshipper and for whom Apple can do no wrong (or when it does, it's better not to talk about it).

    Yes, I touched on marketshare but entirely within the context of my reply on 'top selling models':

    "Huawei has far more marketshare than Apple in China but has no single model in the top 5 (or top 10 IIRC)."

    Try putting my comment into context. I wasn't commenting on the article but a comment in the discussion. If you were paying attention, you would haveh seen that I actually gave validity to the article but also pointed out something else in line with poster's comment.
    You are still attempting to spin this as marketshare in Huawei's favor. 
    watto_cobraStrangeDays
  • Reply 57 of 77
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    netmage said:
    avon b7 said:

    Well, if Apple is the second largest smartphone handset manufacturer annually (far behind Samsung and very slightly ahead of Huawei), and only made one phone, it would have the top selling model. It doesn't have just one model but it does have very few. Both Samsung and Huawei have different strategies to Apple and have far more models.

    Clearly they are unlikely to have a top seller (but it isn't impossible) with so many models available.

    Huawei has far more marketshare than Apple in China but has no single model in the top 5 (or top 10 IIRC).

    Apple has three current high end models for sale, how many high end models do Huawei and Samsung have?

    The key is to realize the many economy model phones that other companies sell are not in Apple's market and aren't competition for iPhone, so they don't split the share that matters and at which Apple thoroughly dominates both in profits and market share. 
    The key in tems of unit sales is how many you ship in a full year. That's where the big picture is.
    Unit sales is not the big picture, profit is. Profit is the air corporations breathe. Repeat: profit is the air corporations breathe. 

    Youre worshiping at the Church of Marketshare because you’re loyal to a cheap chinese knockoff brand, and sales is all one can cheerlead... They copy their designs and don’t rule profit. What else is there to celebrate?
    Church of marketshare doesn't exist.

    No one said corporations don't breathe profit.

    What will you say if the Xiaomi IPO is a success? They hope to turn the company into a 100 billion dollar company with a declaration to shareholders that net hardware margins will be capped at 5%.

    If revenues were so important (above any other factor) nobody would be able to get a new iPhone for under 400 euros. Its mere presence takes potential sales away from higher priced phones in its own line and remember, 'upsell' is in Apple's DNA.

    No. Apple wants marketshare. That's why it wants Android switchers. Not only for revenues but to take users away from Android. Yes marketshare is very much a goal for Apple.
    As I stated before, was Xiaomi even making 5% before their declaration?

    Likely not, so it appears to be a con.
    Having followed Xiaomi phones prices in the last 4 years in India, I would say that they most likely did NOT make any profit until 2015. I would even say that they made losses deliberately in the initial 2 years. But they have slowly increased their prices in the last 2 years. And they have built a loyal fan base in India over the last 4 years, that they have overtaken Samsung to be the number one for market share in India. And the recent article from DED also confirmed that they are making profit in India. Oppo and Vivo have reported losses in India overall. Xioami sells mostly low-priced phones compared to the likes of Oppo/Vivo, who sell phones at a premium (about 100% higher price for similar phones compared to Xiaomi). So Xiaomi remaining profitable is a huge achievement. Xiaomi is going to continue to make profits going forward, may be around that 5% overall.
    Fair enough.

    What's to stop other Chinese OEM's from undercutting them in the future and stealing marketshare from Xiaomi? It's pretty easy to see where I'm coming from on this. 
    Fair question. It is not as if other Chinese OEMs undercutting Xioami are not there in the last 4 years. There are plenty of them. But they have not been successful anywhere near xioami's level. Reason is - xioami's phones have far better build quality in that price range compared to other cheap phones. So they have what it takes to succeed in long term. That is not to say that they won't make mistakes and fail. Just that they have better chance of succeeding.

    PS: Before you point out the obvious, I will state it myself. There is NO overlap between Apple and xiaomi in the price segments that they are focusing on. So xioami's success is not going to make even a small dent in Apple's market share or profits. I don't see iPhone users (in significant numbers) consider buying Xioami phones anytime soon, definitely not with the amount of bloatware in their phones right now.
    edited May 2018
  • Reply 58 of 77
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 1,677member
    Not that I necessarily think this article is inaccurate, but I think it's interesting how this article makes a claim and cites no data and people are believing it where as previous reports from analysts that actually cited data (though potentially flawed) were lambasted as 'FUD' The main difference was whether they were positive or negative towards Apple. It seems like the main criteria for believing a report is whether you like what it says...
    avon b7muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 59 of 77
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,716member
    avon b7 said:
    netmage said:
    avon b7 said:

    Well, if Apple is the second largest smartphone handset manufacturer annually (far behind Samsung and very slightly ahead of Huawei), and only made one phone, it would have the top selling model. It doesn't have just one model but it does have very few. Both Samsung and Huawei have different strategies to Apple and have far more models.

    Clearly they are unlikely to have a top seller (but it isn't impossible) with so many models available.

    Huawei has far more marketshare than Apple in China but has no single model in the top 5 (or top 10 IIRC).

    Apple has three current high end models for sale, how many high end models do Huawei and Samsung have?

    The key is to realize the many economy model phones that other companies sell are not in Apple's market and aren't competition for iPhone, so they don't split the share that matters and at which Apple thoroughly dominates both in profits and market share. 
    The key in tems of unit sales is how many you ship in a full year. That's where the big picture is.
    Unit sales is not the big picture, profit is. Profit is the air corporations breathe. Repeat: profit is the air corporations breathe. 

    Youre worshiping at the Church of Marketshare because you’re loyal to a cheap chinese knockoff brand, and sales is all one can cheerlead... They copy their designs and don’t rule profit. What else is there to celebrate?
    I’m curious about this. I don’t remember in the early to mid 2000s Apple fans being obsessed with how much profit the company was making. And profit being the measure of whether the company was great or not. I own some Apple shares so yes I want to see the company do well financially but as a user of their products I care about them making great products that people want to buy and that make a difference in the world. I don’t really care if they’re generating the most profits. And when Apple does increase share in markets of course they highlight it and celebrate it. This idea that market share can only come from selling cheap garbage is nonsense.
    Profit is always a measuring stick. If it wasn't, Apple would have sold iPod and imacs on razor thin margins. 

    The difference for Apple's market share comes from having desirable "great" products rather than the cheap shogun/spaghetti approach by everyone else. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 60 of 77
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,194member
    jungmark said:
    avon b7 said:
    netmage said:
    avon b7 said:

    Well, if Apple is the second largest smartphone handset manufacturer annually (far behind Samsung and very slightly ahead of Huawei), and only made one phone, it would have the top selling model. It doesn't have just one model but it does have very few. Both Samsung and Huawei have different strategies to Apple and have far more models.

    Clearly they are unlikely to have a top seller (but it isn't impossible) with so many models available.

    Huawei has far more marketshare than Apple in China but has no single model in the top 5 (or top 10 IIRC).

    Apple has three current high end models for sale, how many high end models do Huawei and Samsung have?

    The key is to realize the many economy model phones that other companies sell are not in Apple's market and aren't competition for iPhone, so they don't split the share that matters and at which Apple thoroughly dominates both in profits and market share. 
    The key in tems of unit sales is how many you ship in a full year. That's where the big picture is.
    Unit sales is not the big picture, profit is. Profit is the air corporations breathe. Repeat: profit is the air corporations breathe. 

    Youre worshiping at the Church of Marketshare because you’re loyal to a cheap chinese knockoff brand, and sales is all one can cheerlead... They copy their designs and don’t rule profit. What else is there to celebrate?
    I’m curious about this. I don’t remember in the early to mid 2000s Apple fans being obsessed with how much profit the company was making. And profit being the measure of whether the company was great or not. I own some Apple shares so yes I want to see the company do well financially but as a user of their products I care about them making great products that people want to buy and that make a difference in the world. I don’t really care if they’re generating the most profits. And when Apple does increase share in markets of course they highlight it and celebrate it. This idea that market share can only come from selling cheap garbage is nonsense.
    Profit is always a measuring stick. If it wasn't, Apple would have sold iPod and imacs on razor thin margins. 

    The difference for Apple's market share comes from having desirable "great" products rather than the cheap shogun/spaghetti approach by everyone else. 
    What Steve Jobs told Walter Isaacson:

    "My passion has been to build an enduring company where people were motivated to make great products," Jobs told Isaacson. "[T]he products, not the profits, were the motivation. Sculley flipped these priorities to where the goal was to make money. It's a subtle difference, but it ends up meaning everything."


    muthuk_vanalingam
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